RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size
You are some kind of folks I like to discuss with, as not everything is laid upon the gold wages, nothing - even pee into ones cornflakes - is not taken personal. That´s like me. I take all these discussions serious, but also as some kind of mind game, mind training, fun (even serious fun !), but nevcer as an insult. So, let´s continue. Happy New Year. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray & Sonja Crenshaw Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 6:08 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu That you tend--on occasion--to pee in my cornflakes is of no real bother since I am so glad to have an audience with you that you could kick me each time you f*rt and I'd still fetch the stick for you. Only someone who truly loved the horn would do the things you do. Examples? I got 'em... The listmembers-at-large must hear--from me--how big-hearted you can be. A few years back you went completely out of your way to welcome a friend of mine, not just into your country, but into your world. You met him, shuttled him around, and even got him into the opera with you. Quick, hornlisters: Name another world-class player who's done this for someone you know. Yeah, that's what I thought. Zero; same number I came up with. As for me personally, last year you took your valuable time to make-up an audio CD for me, burned it, packaged it, and paid to mail it all the way to the United States. And while it cost plenty for you to do this, it was gift to me, someone you don't even know. The content of the CD was priceless (to me) recordings of lesser-known performances of Dennis Brain. My record shelf is covered with everything I've ever been able to find by DB, and yet, here is a CD chockablock with recordings I didn't even know existed. Professor, you are herby unmasked. Though you occasionally type like Darth Vader, removing your helmet reveals young Skywalker's loving father. Thanks for being here, I'll go pour us another bowl of cornflakes now. jrc in SC ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size
Hello Steve, I play my own mouthpiece which is the adapted classical Viennese mouthpiece to be seen on my home page at www.pizka.de/mpiece.htm Welcome for a visit. Yes, I prefer tone quality before technique & super high, even I play up to concert high a2 even in superforte & can whistle higher, but for what. If you look for a superb F-Horn tone, my mouth piece might be the right choice - and the 1924 Conn were not built that wide throated nor with an extreme wide bore as they do today. Have a good year 2005-01-03 Greetings from Munich = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Freides Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:22 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size Hans, I am curious to hear your recommendations for horn mouthpieces for an adult beginner like me. My current choice is a Holton Farkas MC. I have also used a Conn/UMI 7BW and a Bach 11, and liked the Bach the least of the bunch while preferring the Holton over all the others so far. My horn is a 1924 Conn 4D single horn in F. I should add that, while I continue to try to play higher for a small portion of my practicing, my focus is on achieving a good sound at a moderate dynamic in the middle register, not on trying to play particularly high, or loud, or even fast for that matter. And please tell us what mouthpiece you yourself use. I'm curious because, if anything, I am willing to give up high notes now in exchange for a better tone and better technique in the long run - I have no need to be able to play for anyone other than myself at this point and, while I doubt I'll want to use what you are using, as I said, I'm curious to know what that is. Thanks. -S- > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > du] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:00 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'The Horn List' > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size > > You commit a big error: > > I play all kind of horns with the same mouthpiece: > > Single F-Viennese, Natural horn in E-flat, high F descant, > high Bb-soprano, Double F/Bb. > > We do not adapt the equipment, but we adapt our attitude > verse the particular instrument by adapting the sound stream > (air & attack), pressure (if at all) mouthpiece upon the lip, etc. -snip- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size
Hans, I am curious to hear your recommendations for horn mouthpieces for an adult beginner like me. My current choice is a Holton Farkas MC. I have also used a Conn/UMI 7BW and a Bach 11, and liked the Bach the least of the bunch while preferring the Holton over all the others so far. My horn is a 1924 Conn 4D single horn in F. I should add that, while I continue to try to play higher for a small portion of my practicing, my focus is on achieving a good sound at a moderate dynamic in the middle register, not on trying to play particularly high, or loud, or even fast for that matter. And please tell us what mouthpiece you yourself use. I'm curious because, if anything, I am willing to give up high notes now in exchange for a better tone and better technique in the long run - I have no need to be able to play for anyone other than myself at this point and, while I doubt I'll want to use what you are using, as I said, I'm curious to know what that is. Thanks. -S- > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > du] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:00 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'The Horn List' > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size > > You commit a big error: > > I play all kind of horns with the same mouthpiece: > > Single F-Viennese, Natural horn in E-flat, high F descant, > high Bb-soprano, Double F/Bb. > > We do not adapt the equipment, but we adapt our attitude > verse the particular instrument by adapting the sound stream > (air & attack), pressure (if at all) mouthpiece upon the lip, etc. -snip- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size
You commit a big error: I play all kind of horns with the same mouthpiece: Single F-Viennese, Natural horn in E-flat, high F descant, high Bb-soprano, Double F/Bb. We do not adapt the equipment, but we adapt our attitude verse the particular instrument by adapting the sound stream (air & attack), pressure (if at all) mouthpiece upon the lip, etc. Most list members are not making their living by playing the horn, so their approach is rather from the technical stand point, means adapting the equipment to their rather less than professional trained human sound apparatus (lips etc.). Better buy something new to compensate problems. And it seems as if many of them are not able to distinguish between different sounds required for particular music. This is an education problem as well as a training/experience problem. It is the same with paintings: one might not expect that every visitor, or the majority of visitors to a collection understands the paintings & the beauty itself. If the majority prefers the "rather hollow" sounding easy blow instruments, well, this majority should rather stick with this uniform "misch-masch" instead of developing any personal character. And it is another error, to take a (technically) measured higher impedance as a rather obstacle against free blow, which turns out hollow mostly. Alexander horns have about the same impedance as my horns. This requires more work for the first three to six months, but after that period you will be able to enter with any dynamic at will, from the smoothest pianissimo to the most ringing fortissimo. Remember: if a painter has the best painting (brush) technique, the best (quality) paint & linen, the best varnish & the most beautiful model, he or she will just produce garbage if missing imagination (phantasy, vision, color feeling, taste) or at least some nice handicrafted pictures but NEVER art. He or she will never be an artist. Harsh but the truth. How to master the problem ? There is not a problem at all for the less gifted (talented) as long as they believe the true masters. Also, we need more middle class (average) & an improved average standard. These people porm the best fan community. Last: Music is not a thing where technical apparatus & measurements count much, (except holding the rhythm, holding the pitch, etc.), at least not in real music. It may count in all these popular wumba-wumba Mouthpiece: Yes, there are too many players in the world, who use these little "spucknapf" mouthpieces to master their permanent difficulties in the higher register, abandoning any quality in the middle & lower register therefore. Another education defect produced by poor teachers who force their pupils up to the higher notes to impress their parents. A larger bore mouthpiece does not allow this fast progress, but after a year or so, the users will surpass their colleagues with the "spucknapf", regarding tone quality all over the range & including endurance, higher notes etc. But most people do not believe. Look at all the more or less famous players, who played until their mid 60ies on the first chair & eventually continued playing (for money) after their retirement. You still do not believe ??? O.k. it does not matter for me. But for you ! = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray & Sonja Crenshaw Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:08 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size > Why then using different mouthpieces to balance ??? This is > paradox, absolutely. This is like scanning colour images to > get an output in grey shades only. Insane. Professor, it is interesting that you would protest so loudly, especially when one considers the fact that you speak one way, but then do the opposite. The horn you play has more impedance (or "resistance") than almost any horn represented here. To balance this impedance, the mouthpiece you use (whose measurement parameters you have given here) has a larger--and I mean much larger--throat than almost any represented here on this list. Tuning a horn's resistance to a comfortable level may, or may not be, "insane," but you practice it, whether wittingly or not. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size
I thought, one uses different horns for different tasks to produce different tone qualities or get different tone colours or play heavier or lighter. Why then using different mouthpieces to balance ??? This is paradox, absolutely. This is like scanning colour images to get an output in grey shades only. Insane. I think, the colour difference is one thing which divides real professionals from the "grey misch-masch uniform" crowd, just one thing, but very important. Why ? Well, because the majority of players still struggles with tone production & other basic skills, even they practise enormously, but just mechanically instead wisely. They practise all & everything until they hate all & everything - and themselves. Please, do not get mixed up with the daily "training program", if you need it (warm up, scales, staccato, etc.). That is another side of the medal. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray & Sonja Crenshaw Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:15 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size > The last I heard, he will not drill anything larger But I will. I've got a BungReamster 3000 (3-horsepower with 1/2" chuck) and bits up to 3/4". I can make modify a horn mouthpiece 'til there's nothing left but shavings and the outer edge of the rim. Can you imagine how loud THAT could be? Can't you hear the voice saying, "Come over to the dark side, young Skywalker!" *** > Different makes, at times, but always small bore I'm glad this came up because I have a question about this. If one switches back & forth between two horns of differing "resistance" (actually "impedance"), would one ideally wish to use different sized mouthpiece throats in order to balance the feel between the two differing horns? This assumes, of course, that one stays within the general parameters of good mouthpiece design. Wilbert's statement of, "the theory was use a small bore mouthpiece with a large bore horn" is one I've heard before. And while a size 4 throat might be a bit over the top (and he thought so too), I've wondered about using the backbore to minimize the difference between, say, a Conn 8D and an old Schmidt double. Or, perhaps using a smaller throat on a descant horn, assuming it's freer blowing by nature. (I've never played on of any make) So what have you heard and/or experienced concerning this? jrc in SC ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Bore Size
--- Jay Kosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For me (amateur player, not particularly > strong..), using a mpc with too > large throat causes airy sound and short > endurance, especially in the > upper range. Bore size of about 11-12 is most > useful for me, on Y668N. > Walter Lawson strongly recommends a size 11 bore on his cups, but will go to a 9 or 10, if asked. The last I heard, he will not drill anything larger. When I was in college in the late 1960s, the theory was use a small bore mouthpiece with a large bore horn. Both my wife and I have experimented with this idea over the years, and at one time we were both using size 4 bores (Giardinelli and Atkinson,) with average results. Now, I'm on a size 16 with my Alexander, and she's using a 14 on her 8D, and our playing has not only improved, but become much more stable. We also blend better. Been using these sizes for at least ten years. Different makes, at times, but always small bore. Wilbert in SC > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/wkkimple%40prodigy.net > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
