Re: [HOT] Canaan Haiti Mapping
Fred, I can't wait for the imagery. I would love to see the imagery and think of ways to incorporate it into our project in Canaan. The majority of the help that we need at this moment is completing the Canaan tracing task. We will begin our field activities in soon and really need to finish the task. Any and all help is appreciated. http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/870 On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 9:42 AM Frederic Moine frmo...@gmail.com wrote: Dear dale, During our last UAV mission with OSM Haiti we covered a small part of canaan with a normal caméra and a Near Infra Red Camera. We are making the post traitment and will publish it when it will be ready (with Jean Guilhem). However we will need to cover more area. Our last mission was to test NIR camera for hydro model and risk reduction project (OSM Haiti is taking the lead). Let us know if you need more help from the OSM community on your project. All the best FredM ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Canaan Haiti Mapping
Dear Dale, I know all the NGO they don’t have the time in Haiti, we have seen the result in the field. I thought we were here to reinforce local capacity, see what has been done previously and coordinate with the existing capacity. You are asking OSM community to use a UAV image we have done in 2014. A lot of thing has change in between in the field. So depend on the workflow, is better to have the latest imagery : - To generate the latest building layers, - Provide the latest map for the survey team. - Go in the field with mapillary (street view) and click on the building to put the use of the building. - Avoid any loose of time during the post mapping (after the data collection in the field). Unfortunately, since 2013 we have a limited budget ( 2014, 10 000 usd, 2015 I have spent myself 2000 usd)to do more than 250 flights to cover almost 200 km2. We can finish Canaan in a week if we receive help, So far OSM Haiti has done: - 16 meeting in Onaville and canaan locals authorities / communities to delimitate the bloc, - UAV imagery you are using - Made some mapping and inform about the risk of flooding ( informal area). Let us know what you want and the OSM team in Haiti will do it for sure. All the best FredM On 25.03.2015 09:02, Dale Kunce wrote: Fred, I can't wait for the imagery. I would love to see the imagery and think of ways to incorporate it into our project in Canaan. The majority of the help that we need at this moment is completing the Canaan tracing task. We will begin our field activities in soon and really need to finish the task. Any and all help is appreciated. http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/870 On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 9:42 AM Frederic Moine frmo...@gmail.com mailto:frmo...@gmail.com wrote: Dear dale, During our last UAV mission with OSM Haiti we covered a small part of canaan with a normal caméra and a Near Infra Red Camera. We are making the post traitment and will publish it when it will be ready (with Jean Guilhem). However we will need to cover more area. Our last mission was to test NIR camera for hydro model and risk reduction project (OSM Haiti is taking the lead). Let us know if you need more help from the OSM community on your project. All the best FredM ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Canaan Haiti Mapping
Dear dale, During our last UAV mission with OSM Haiti we covered a small part of canaan with a normal caméra and a Near Infra Red Camera. We are making the post traitment and will publish it when it will be ready (with Jean Guilhem). However we will need to cover more area. Our last mission was to test NIR camera for hydro model and risk reduction project (OSM Haiti is taking the lead). Let us know if you need more help from the OSM community on your project. All the best FredM ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
Hi Daniel, This makes much sense. Do you have a github account? If so, please create an issue and copy paste your message there. Pierre On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it.. -- Dan ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot -- - | Pierre GIRAUD - ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
We have already made similar propositions a few times on the Github isssues service for the Tasking manager. See the recent discussion.https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/545 Pierre De : Denis Carriere carriere.de...@gmail.com À : Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com Cc : hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Mercredi 25 mars 2015 0h55 Objet : Re: [HOT] validating tiles Very good points you brought up Dan.I feel very strongly about the #2 point about adding a statistic for validators, it does take effort to browse the tiles properly. I sometimes end up adding a few missing buildings or landuse areas if they are only a few minor missing features.Hopefully those points can be looked into developed in the near future for the Tasking Manager.On Mar 24, 2015 9:53 PM, Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement(B) people don't like to pass judgement(C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it..-- Dan ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Most active HOT projects since March 2014
On 23 Mar 2015, at 20:35, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: The number of changesets is also a gross estimate of the contributor efforts. How to compare a contributor that adds 100 buildings, one changeset for each (we see this often with new contributors) with a contributor that has a few thousands objects in one edit. To address this I just added one additional tab to the spreadsheet — HOT projects ranked by the number of changes made to the map. (This corresponds to the “num_changes” measure in OSM changeset stats.) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12TjMDsgPoEQadiUWbpKjotTMYKPo5NY4W7EDipHnE7Y/edit?usp=sharing #MapLesotho (project 599) at the top, with a wide margin... Thanks again for the feedback! m. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
and whilst I'm on my soap box there are two other issues with tiles. The first is micro tiling where tiles without much on them are split into sixteen tiles each with perhaps one hut on them, and the other is I've seen tiles that really are completely mapped, yes I've gone through them systematically but I've had to add much less than I have when validating sometimes. I get the feeling some mappers don't feel confident enough to mark a tile as done. Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 07:47, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: But on the other hand we have some mappers whom I'm confident their tiles will contain only very minor errors, and given the large number of projects that could do with mapping I'm not sure that spending time validating these is the best use of our very limited resources. If we are going to spend time validating then perhaps we should seriously think of only taking on new projects when we have the capacity to finish them within say a year. I have noticed that validating the tile in JOSM with the validate button has identified a number of issues. I've also noticed that validating quickly on a project seems to help the project roll along the feedback both helps correct mappers, they do less errors in future and keeps them motivated. The other issue is I've seen some validations when tiles are rejected for minor reasons such as the classification of a highway as a track rather than unclassified or a path was missed that led from nowhere to nowhere. These sort of validations tend not to inspire. Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 05:55, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have already made similar propositions a few times on the Github isssues service for the Tasking manager. See the recent discussion. https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/545 Pierre -- *De :* Denis Carriere carriere.de...@gmail.com *À :* Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com *Cc :* hot@openstreetmap.org *Envoyé le :* Mercredi 25 mars 2015 0h55 *Objet :* Re: [HOT] validating tiles Very good points you brought up Dan. I feel very strongly about the #2 point about adding a statistic for validators, it does take effort to browse the tiles properly. I sometimes end up adding a few missing buildings or landuse areas if they are only a few minor missing features. Hopefully those points can be looked into developed in the near future for the Tasking Manager. On Mar 24, 2015 9:53 PM, Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it.. -- Dan ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] Quick question - HOT and Haiti story
Hi all, Can anyone point to anywhere there is a good account of Haiti 2010 and the reaction of OSM people (and subsequent development of HOT)? Particularly how you organised yourselves around this task at such short notice and any timelines. This is not super important, so please don't spend ages writing an account, but if there is something already written / published, I'd love to see it... Cheers, Pete -- *Pete Masters* Missing Maps Project Coordinator +44 7921 781 518 missingmaps.org http://www.missingmaps.org/ *@pedrito1414* https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps *@theMissingMaps* https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject* https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
This is kind of a very subtle point, but I have written about it before: I find it difficult to validate tiles because they so often need more work and are not really done. That leaves me with these choices: 1. Do the mapping myself, which I usually do, but then I have less time for validating tiles. 2. Mark the tile invalid and know that a new mapper is going to get an email saying their work has been invalidated. I never do this unless it was clearly marked done as a mistake. 3. Unlock the tile and leave it as is for someone else to deal with. I do this more often than I care to admit. I think we could do 1 or 2 things that would make the process a bit better: 1. We could change the term from invalid, a somewhat strong term in English and what I consider de-motivating. I can't think of one word, but we need something more friendly like Needs more mapping 2. Not send notices for invalidated tasks, and instead send notifications for validated tasks. I think mappers would be more motivated by getting positive feedback than negative feedback. We could probably data mine the answer, but I wonder how many mappers who marked a tile done (often not even the person who did the mapping) and get an invalidated notice go then back and do the corrective mapping. I think option 2 would be very easy to implement. I know I would do more validations and tiles that needed more mapping might get more mapping if I didn't have to worry about discouraging new mappers by invalidating tasks. On a related note: I would encourage anyone who is doing training at missing maps or mapping parties to let mappers know, invalidated is totally fine and really just means needs more mapping. Cheers, Blake On 3/25/2015 2:51 AM, Daniel Specht wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it.. -- Dan ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Quick question - HOT and Haiti story
Two classic papers on the topic: Soden, R. and Palen, L. (2014). From Crowdsourced Mapping to Community Mapping: The Post-Earthquake Work of OpenStreetMap Haiti.” https://www.cs.colorado.edu/~palen/Papers/HaitiCOOP_Final.pdf Zook et al (2010), “Volunteered geographic information and crowdsourcing disaster relief: a case study of the Haitian earthquake” http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Matthew_Zook/publication/239324066_Volunteered_Geographic_Information_and_Crowdsourcing_Disaster_Relief_A_Case_Study_of_the_Haitian_Earthquake/links/0f31752ef9ede4411c00.pdf m. On 25 Mar 2015, at 14:32, Pete Masters pedrito1...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi all, Can anyone point to anywhere there is a good account of Haiti 2010 and the reaction of OSM people (and subsequent development of HOT)? Particularly how you organised yourselves around this task at such short notice and any timelines. This is not super important, so please don't spend ages writing an account, but if there is something already written / published, I'd love to see it... Cheers, Pete -- Pete Masters Missing Maps Project Coordinator +44 7921 781 518 missingmaps.org @pedrito1414 @theMissingMaps facebook.com/MissingMapsProject ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
Needs another look? maybe, both incomplete and invalid are slightly negative. I like the idea of sending someone a more positive message when their tiles have been validated, could it include the comment by the validator? Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 11:27, James Conkling james.lane.conkl...@gmail.com wrote: 'incomplete' instead of 'invalid'? I'll be honest, I've never validated a task b/c I thought you needed a certain level of 'certification' (even informally). On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote: This is kind of a very subtle point, but I have written about it before: I find it difficult to validate tiles because they so often need more work and are not really done. That leaves me with these choices: 1. Do the mapping myself, which I usually do, but then I have less time for validating tiles. 2. Mark the tile invalid and know that a new mapper is going to get an email saying their work has been invalidated. I never do this unless it was clearly marked done as a mistake. 3. Unlock the tile and leave it as is for someone else to deal with. I do this more often than I care to admit. I think we could do 1 or 2 things that would make the process a bit better: 1. We could change the term from invalid, a somewhat strong term in English and what I consider de-motivating. I can't think of one word, but we need something more friendly like Needs more mapping 2. Not send notices for invalidated tasks, and instead send notifications for validated tasks. I think mappers would be more motivated by getting positive feedback than negative feedback. We could probably data mine the answer, but I wonder how many mappers who marked a tile done (often not even the person who did the mapping) and get an invalidated notice go then back and do the corrective mapping. I think option 2 would be very easy to implement. I know I would do more validations and tiles that needed more mapping might get more mapping if I didn't have to worry about discouraging new mappers by invalidating tasks. On a related note: I would encourage anyone who is doing training at missing maps or mapping parties to let mappers know, invalidated is totally fine and really just means needs more mapping. Cheers, Blake On 3/25/2015 2:51 AM, Daniel Specht wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it.. -- Dan ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
And just to go off at a tangent has anyone thought about tapping into old people's homes? Some residents are mentally alert and it might help keep them amused. Not a full scale mapathon and you might even have to explain what a mouse is. Many will not have wifi, but JOSM can work off line and I understand even hold the images for a tile or two off line as well but if you can pull it off you might find five or so residents per home putting an hour a day into it and before anyone asks, my home contacts are 3,000 miles away so I'm not best placed to do this, and I suspect you'd need to talk it through with a home and someone who knows this sort of resident first on how best to approach it. Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 14:12, Pete Masters pedrito1...@googlemail.com wrote: It's an interesting discussion and one that we have fairly frequently. At the mapathons we run in London, whoever is doing the training is careful to make clear that volunteers should mark squares as done once they think they are done. They are reassured that when a validator goes over their mapping, they will either validate or they will help the mapper to develop by providing pointers. They are encouraged, at that point, to go over their work. In the same vein, we have tables at mapathons where people who have been to a few Missing Maps events start to validate the other attendees' work, under the supervision of an experienced HOTty. These guys are encouraged from the outset to leave positive and instructive feedback at the point of invalidation. We are trying to find ways to teach diligence whilst inspiring confidence in the new mappers. Anecdotally, we think these measures are working, but it would great to know. I love Blake's idea to data mine the effectiveness of this! Cheers, Pete On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 5:36 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Needs another look? maybe, both incomplete and invalid are slightly negative. I like the idea of sending someone a more positive message when their tiles have been validated, could it include the comment by the validator? Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 11:27, James Conkling james.lane.conkl...@gmail.com wrote: 'incomplete' instead of 'invalid'? I'll be honest, I've never validated a task b/c I thought you needed a certain level of 'certification' (even informally). On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote: This is kind of a very subtle point, but I have written about it before: I find it difficult to validate tiles because they so often need more work and are not really done. That leaves me with these choices: 1. Do the mapping myself, which I usually do, but then I have less time for validating tiles. 2. Mark the tile invalid and know that a new mapper is going to get an email saying their work has been invalidated. I never do this unless it was clearly marked done as a mistake. 3. Unlock the tile and leave it as is for someone else to deal with. I do this more often than I care to admit. I think we could do 1 or 2 things that would make the process a bit better: 1. We could change the term from invalid, a somewhat strong term in English and what I consider de-motivating. I can't think of one word, but we need something more friendly like Needs more mapping 2. Not send notices for invalidated tasks, and instead send notifications for validated tasks. I think mappers would be more motivated by getting positive feedback than negative feedback. We could probably data mine the answer, but I wonder how many mappers who marked a tile done (often not even the person who did the mapping) and get an invalidated notice go then back and do the corrective mapping. I think option 2 would be very easy to implement. I know I would do more validations and tiles that needed more mapping might get more mapping if I didn't have to worry about discouraging new mappers by invalidating tasks. On a related note: I would encourage anyone who is doing training at missing maps or mapping parties to let mappers know, invalidated is totally fine and really just means needs more mapping. Cheers, Blake On 3/25/2015 2:51 AM, Daniel Specht wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
I wonder if this has been discussed before - and I apologized if it has - would it be a viable idea to add a slider or a percentage drop down menu for the mapper to select the amount of work that still needs to be done for each task? This can be a subjective and rough estimate from the person working on the task, but who doesn't have time to complete it. That way it would let people know which tasks can be completed quickly - e.g. in 15 minutes mapping sessions - or if they need more time. It will also add to the general stats for the project. The percentage could visually correspond to shades of orange if we want to represent that on the map. On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Pete Masters pedrito1...@googlemail.com wrote: It's an interesting discussion and one that we have fairly frequently. At the mapathons we run in London, whoever is doing the training is careful to make clear that volunteers should mark squares as done once they think they are done. They are reassured that when a validator goes over their mapping, they will either validate or they will help the mapper to develop by providing pointers. They are encouraged, at that point, to go over their work. In the same vein, we have tables at mapathons where people who have been to a few Missing Maps events start to validate the other attendees' work, under the supervision of an experienced HOTty. These guys are encouraged from the outset to leave positive and instructive feedback at the point of invalidation. We are trying to find ways to teach diligence whilst inspiring confidence in the new mappers. Anecdotally, we think these measures are working, but it would great to know. I love Blake's idea to data mine the effectiveness of this! Cheers, Pete On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 5:36 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Needs another look? maybe, both incomplete and invalid are slightly negative. I like the idea of sending someone a more positive message when their tiles have been validated, could it include the comment by the validator? Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 11:27, James Conkling james.lane.conkl...@gmail.com wrote: 'incomplete' instead of 'invalid'? I'll be honest, I've never validated a task b/c I thought you needed a certain level of 'certification' (even informally). On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote: This is kind of a very subtle point, but I have written about it before: I find it difficult to validate tiles because they so often need more work and are not really done. That leaves me with these choices: 1. Do the mapping myself, which I usually do, but then I have less time for validating tiles. 2. Mark the tile invalid and know that a new mapper is going to get an email saying their work has been invalidated. I never do this unless it was clearly marked done as a mistake. 3. Unlock the tile and leave it as is for someone else to deal with. I do this more often than I care to admit. I think we could do 1 or 2 things that would make the process a bit better: 1. We could change the term from invalid, a somewhat strong term in English and what I consider de-motivating. I can't think of one word, but we need something more friendly like Needs more mapping 2. Not send notices for invalidated tasks, and instead send notifications for validated tasks. I think mappers would be more motivated by getting positive feedback than negative feedback. We could probably data mine the answer, but I wonder how many mappers who marked a tile done (often not even the person who did the mapping) and get an invalidated notice go then back and do the corrective mapping. I think option 2 would be very easy to implement. I know I would do more validations and tiles that needed more mapping might get more mapping if I didn't have to worry about discouraging new mappers by invalidating tasks. On a related note: I would encourage anyone who is doing training at missing maps or mapping parties to let mappers know, invalidated is totally fine and really just means needs more mapping. Cheers, Blake On 3/25/2015 2:51 AM, Daniel Specht wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
It's an interesting discussion and one that we have fairly frequently. At the mapathons we run in London, whoever is doing the training is careful to make clear that volunteers should mark squares as done once they think they are done. They are reassured that when a validator goes over their mapping, they will either validate or they will help the mapper to develop by providing pointers. They are encouraged, at that point, to go over their work. In the same vein, we have tables at mapathons where people who have been to a few Missing Maps events start to validate the other attendees' work, under the supervision of an experienced HOTty. These guys are encouraged from the outset to leave positive and instructive feedback at the point of invalidation. We are trying to find ways to teach diligence whilst inspiring confidence in the new mappers. Anecdotally, we think these measures are working, but it would great to know. I love Blake's idea to data mine the effectiveness of this! Cheers, Pete On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 5:36 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Needs another look? maybe, both incomplete and invalid are slightly negative. I like the idea of sending someone a more positive message when their tiles have been validated, could it include the comment by the validator? Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 11:27, James Conkling james.lane.conkl...@gmail.com wrote: 'incomplete' instead of 'invalid'? I'll be honest, I've never validated a task b/c I thought you needed a certain level of 'certification' (even informally). On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote: This is kind of a very subtle point, but I have written about it before: I find it difficult to validate tiles because they so often need more work and are not really done. That leaves me with these choices: 1. Do the mapping myself, which I usually do, but then I have less time for validating tiles. 2. Mark the tile invalid and know that a new mapper is going to get an email saying their work has been invalidated. I never do this unless it was clearly marked done as a mistake. 3. Unlock the tile and leave it as is for someone else to deal with. I do this more often than I care to admit. I think we could do 1 or 2 things that would make the process a bit better: 1. We could change the term from invalid, a somewhat strong term in English and what I consider de-motivating. I can't think of one word, but we need something more friendly like Needs more mapping 2. Not send notices for invalidated tasks, and instead send notifications for validated tasks. I think mappers would be more motivated by getting positive feedback than negative feedback. We could probably data mine the answer, but I wonder how many mappers who marked a tile done (often not even the person who did the mapping) and get an invalidated notice go then back and do the corrective mapping. I think option 2 would be very easy to implement. I know I would do more validations and tiles that needed more mapping might get more mapping if I didn't have to worry about discouraging new mappers by invalidating tasks. On a related note: I would encourage anyone who is doing training at missing maps or mapping parties to let mappers know, invalidated is totally fine and really just means needs more mapping. Cheers, Blake On 3/25/2015 2:51 AM, Daniel Specht wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it.. -- Dan ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
Hello, Cheers to Blake and Dan for articulating all I have been feeling about doing validations. I do think that new terminology is needed (invalidated -- ugh!). Why not just change it to needs more mapping? We don't need a single word. Also, it would be good to have a place to be a bit more specific about what more needs to be done, such as some buildings missing or some ways missing. As I think I said before, it also took me a little while to figure out how to stop work on a particular section without clicking the Done button. After I figured out that all I had to do was post a note about how much I had been able to do, I no longer was clicking Done incorrectly. We should make sure that it is clear how to stop working on a section and let people know it's not done. Last, Dan reminds us that someone (usually he) has to do the validation work and that we all should pitch in, even if we are not deeply experienced. If we see things that are not finished, but we don't have the time to finish them ourselves, there should be an easy way to indicate that someone else still needs to get in there and finish the corrections. That way, the work gets spread around. Martijn van Exel's Maproulette included several ways to indicate the status of each correction, such as could not fix it or needs more work. That is a good model for validating in HOT. Charlotte At 08:09 AM 3/25/2015, you wrote: This is kind of a very subtle point, but I have written about it before: I find it difficult to validate tiles because they so often need more work and are not really done. That leaves me with these choices: 1. Do the mapping myself, which I usually do, but then I have less time for validating tiles. 2. Mark the tile invalid and know that a new mapper is going to get an email saying their work has been invalidated. I never do this unless it was clearly marked done as a mistake. 3. Unlock the tile and leave it as is for someone else to deal with. I do this more often than I care to admit. I think we could do 1 or 2 things that would make the process a bit better: 1. We could change the term from invalid, a somewhat strong term in English and what I consider demotivating. I can't think of one word, but we need something more friendly like Needs more mapping 2. Not send notices for invalidated tasks, and instead send notifications for validated tasks. I think mappers would be more motivated by getting positive feedback than negative feedback. We could probably data mine the answer, but I wonder how many mappers who marked a tile done (often not even the person who did the mapping) and get an invalidated notice go then back and do the corrective mapping. I think option 2 would be very easy to implement. I know I would do more validations and tiles that needed more mapping might get more mapping if I didn't have to worry about discouraging new mappers by invalidating tasks. On a related note: I would encourage anyone who is doing training at Missing Maps or mapping parties to let mappers know, invalidated is totally fine and really just means needs more mapping. Cheers, Blake On 3/25/2015 2:51 AM, Daniel Specht wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it.. -- Dan ___ HOT mailing list mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.orgHOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.orgHOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Mapping Logging Roads in the Congo Basin
Hi James, Thanks a lot for the initiative! For the two Congo's it might be usefull to still try to reach out a little more to the local communities. Because I know in both countries, we have OSM enthusiasts. By the way, are we talking about the same data? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Central_Africa_Import Then you should also have a look on the Task we created for CAR: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/219 It is partially done. Happy mapping! Jorieke 2015-03-25 16:08 GMT+00:00 James Conkling james.lane.conkl...@gmail.com: Hi all, I’m pleased to announce the launch of a long-term initiative to upload logging road data from across the Congo Basin. We currently have three TM projects running: - Democratic Republic of the Congo: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/920 - Central African Republic: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/956 - Congo Brazzaville: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/957 Over the coming weeks, we will be launching new TM projects for - Gabon - Equatorial Guinea - Cameroon This is a joint initiative between the World Resource Institute and Moabi--with considerable help from the HOT and OSM communities. We are validating and uploading to OSM thousands of kilometers of tracks. At a later point, we hope to compare these roads to high-res satellite imagery mosaics from the year 2000 to 2014 so that we can gain a better understanding of when roads were first cleared and if they have since been abandoned. Currently, however, we are working to conflate all data with what already exists in OSM. If you are interested, please join us with the upload on any of the above TM projects, which include links to the project wikis. If you do contribute, please create a separate specific import account for the upload (if you don’t have one yet), and follow the detailed instructions in the workflow wiki. If you have any questions, please reply to this thread or reach out to me directly. Find the initial call for comments announcement on the HOT listserv here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2015-February/007307.html , and the announcement on the imports listserv here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2015-February/003663.html ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] validating tiles
But on the other hand we have some mappers whom I'm confident their tiles will contain only very minor errors, and given the large number of projects that could do with mapping I'm not sure that spending time validating these is the best use of our very limited resources. If we are going to spend time validating then perhaps we should seriously think of only taking on new projects when we have the capacity to finish them within say a year. I have noticed that validating the tile in JOSM with the validate button has identified a number of issues. I've also noticed that validating quickly on a project seems to help the project roll along the feedback both helps correct mappers, they do less errors in future and keeps them motivated. The other issue is I've seen some validations when tiles are rejected for minor reasons such as the classification of a highway as a track rather than unclassified or a path was missed that led from nowhere to nowhere. These sort of validations tend not to inspire. Cheerio John On 25 March 2015 at 05:55, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: We have already made similar propositions a few times on the Github isssues service for the Tasking manager. See the recent discussion. https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/545 Pierre -- *De :* Denis Carriere carriere.de...@gmail.com *À :* Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com *Cc :* hot@openstreetmap.org *Envoyé le :* Mercredi 25 mars 2015 0h55 *Objet :* Re: [HOT] validating tiles Very good points you brought up Dan. I feel very strongly about the #2 point about adding a statistic for validators, it does take effort to browse the tiles properly. I sometimes end up adding a few missing buildings or landuse areas if they are only a few minor missing features. Hopefully those points can be looked into developed in the near future for the Tasking Manager. On Mar 24, 2015 9:53 PM, Daniel Specht danspe...@gmail.com wrote: Lots of projects are mapped quickly, but validated slowly. This could be because (A) beginners don't feel qualified to pass judgement (B) people don't like to pass judgement (C) doing original work is more fun than reviewing someone else's work. I have a couple suggestions for encouraging validation. 1. Include instructions for validation on the instructions tab. Because the instructions tab only has mapping instructions, readers may think that validation is for someone else to do. 2. Include validation statistics on the stats tab. Because the stats tab only has statistics for tiles completed, mappers may think that validating tiles is not essential. Also, these statistics give the mapper, but not the validator, a psychological reward. I've been validating a lot of tiles -- sometimes I seem to be doing most of the validations on a project -- and even though seeing the number by your name increment isn't the biggest thrill in the world, I have to admit that I miss it.. -- Dan ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Most active HOT projects since March 2014
I just updated the spreadsheet — the user numbers were inflated thanks to a subtle bug in my code with big consequences… they now more closely track total participant counts in the HOT tasking manager. (Many thanks to DaCor and Ciaran Staunton who helped me track this down.) m. On 23 Mar 2015, at 18:59, Martin Dittus mar...@dekstop.de wrote: Hallo all, Here are two basic rankings of HOT project activity in the last year, based on map contributions in the past 12 months. Discussion on IRC suggested that this data might be useful to others, so I’m sharing it with the list. HOT projects ranked by edit activity from Mar 2014 - Feb 2015 (inclusive): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12TjMDsgPoEQadiUWbpKjotTMYKPo5NY4W7EDipHnE7Y/edit?usp=sharing The first tab shows a ranking of all tasking manager projects by number of changesets, the second by number of contributors. This data is not yet captured by the tasking manager: I’m only looking at participation that actually resulted in changes on the map. To this purpose I identify changesets in the OSM edit history that were tagged with a HOT project id. I’m curious what other people can read from this data, e.g. whether it matches your intuitions of popular HOT activities. Of course these kinds of rankings are of dubious utility — projects are rarely directly comparable in their scope, and larger activations may be structured in all kinds of ways. Same goes for changesets as a metric. Does anyone have good suggestions for how one could meaningfully group the hundreds of HOT projects? E.g. I could aggregate stats for all #MissingMaps/#MapLesotho/Ebola Outbreak projects, are there similar tags I should be looking for? Are these actually meaningful distinctions when looking at contribution outcomes? Any requests for other stats? I’d be happy to produce more, provided it’s feasible. No promises :) Greetings from London, Martin Dittus --- If you’re interested in the details — there are a number of challenges in producing such data, and some caveats. Mostly it has to do with the unstructured nature of changeset comments. I’m likely undercounting: automated iD changeset comments were only introduced in mid-August 2014, see http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mcld/diary/24123 — I’m not identifying earlier contributions that have not been tagged manually. I’m likely undercounting: HOT projects use multiple tagging conventions for changeset comments, most prominently #hotosm-project-938 and #hotosm-task-907 but also #hotosm-Ebola-892 and similar. I'm being quite lenient in what I expect but may not catch all projects. I also noticed the tag #hotosm-cap103 which is not actually referring to a project ID, that's an activation (Projet Cap103”). And — I don’t have project titles for projects that aren’t public any longer. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
