Re: [HOT] Difficulty in communicating with iD users

[Natfoot]

As an Editor that uses ID exclusively for edits I can confirm that ID has
changed in the past three days.  I have not made edits yet that are using
the new icons as I will need to relearn ID and be able to teach it at the
next Missing Maps meetup.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Suzan Reed  wrote:

> All the tags in iD have changed.
>
> There is no longer Road or Unclassified Road. I have no idea what a “minor
> road” is, and it doesn’t match anything in OSM or HOT tags. Other tags have
> disappeared as well including Water, etc.
>
> These strange new tags need to be changed back to the ones that were in iD
> so it matches everything else in OSM and HOT. Who can do that?
>
> Suzan
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:53 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Blake Girardot 
> wrote:
>
>
> I assumed there was an "unclassified" road icon in iD as the tag is
> highway=unclassified, however, iD calls that a "Minor Road" but gives it
> the highway=unclassified k=v.
>
> iD does have an icon for "unclassified road", does that not result in  a
> k=v of "highway=unclassified"?
>
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Re: [HOT] Difficulty in communicating with iD users

[Suzan Reed]

All the tags in iD have changed.

There is no longer Road or Unclassified Road. I have no idea what a “minor 
road” is, and it doesn’t match anything in OSM or HOT tags. Other tags have 
disappeared as well including Water, etc. 

These strange new tags need to be changed back to the ones that were in iD so 
it matches everything else in OSM and HOT. Who can do that? 

Suzan 




On Mar 4, 2016, at 8:53 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:



On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Blake Girardot  wrote:


I assumed there was an "unclassified" road icon in iD as the tag is 
highway=unclassified, however, iD calls that a "Minor Road" but gives it the 
highway=unclassified k=v.

iD does have an icon for "unclassified road", does that not result in  a k=v of 
"highway=unclassified"?
 
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[HOT] iD tags changed? Re: Difficulty in communicating with iD users

[Suzan Reed]

I was shocked when I went into a Task using iD and found all the names of Roads 
had changed. There is no Unclassified Road anymore, and there isn’t even the 
designation “Road”. All my tracings have changed to designations I’ve never 
heard of in iD or JOSM. When I look in JOSM they are all there as Unclassified 
Roads as per the instructions in the Task, but in iD, they are completely 
different. I looked at other Tasks and these new tags are in iD in every task. 

Who changed the tags? How do we get them changed back so they match JOSM and 
all the information about OSM and HOT?

This isn’t good. 

New people who learn in iD won’t know how to do the Instructions in a task, and 
when they graduate to JOSM, they will have to learn all the tags over again. 
Plus! The new tags (minor road etc.) do not match any of the Wikis, learning 
tools in HOT or OSM. 

I am very disappointed to discover this change and hope the Powers will repair 
this and make iD tags match everything else. 

Suzan 


On Mar 4, 2016, at 6:03 PM, john whelan  wrote:

The highway tags seen in JOSM are not apparently what an iD user sees.  I'm 
trying very hard to put this politely but how ...  am I supposed to 
communicate with an iD user to say please think twice before using 
highway=motorway in an African village and how are they supposed to know what 
the African wiki road tags are and how they relate to iD?

And please don't suggest I use iD for anything including validation.

Thanks John


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Re: [HOT] Difficulty in communicating with iD users

[Mike Thompson]

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Blake Girardot  wrote:

>
>
> I assumed there was an "unclassified" road icon in iD as the tag is
> highway=unclassified, however, iD calls that a "Minor Road" but gives it
> the highway=unclassified k=v.
>
> iD does have an icon for "unclassified road", does that not result in  a
k=v of "highway=unclassified"?
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[HOT] Plz guide me about my work

[Autre Planete]

Greets!
Could someone plz let me know if my previous mapping is correctly done?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Autre%20for%20Nepal

Kindly excuse me in case I posted this message in the wrong forum.
Thanks in advance
Autre
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Re: [HOT] Difficulty in communicating with iD users

[Blake Girardot]

Hi John,

I am not really sure what you are asking, but in looking at highway 
tagging in iD, it appears that iD does not use the same icon label for 
roads based on the tag values. I had no idea.


I assumed there was an "unclassified" road icon in iD as the tag is 
highway=unclassified, however, iD calls that a "Minor Road" but gives it 
the highway=unclassified k=v.


Residential appears to match up pretty well.

Track, the iD icon is a little wordy and confusing.

I would suggest that TM Instructions reflect this, especially the 
unclassified value as that is probably the mostly commonly used value we 
use for highways.


Someone could edit the Highway Tag Africa page to indicate what iD calls 
an unclassified road.


And I would suggest an issue in github to ask Bryan if he might consider 
altering the default iD icon labels to more closely match the actual tag 
values which would make writing instructions a lot easier.


Until then it is just a training/instructions issue.

Cheers,
Blake



On 3/5/2016 3:03 AM, john whelan wrote:

The highway tags seen in JOSM are not apparently what an iD user sees.
I'm trying very hard to put this politely but how ...  am I supposed
to communicate with an iD user to say please think twice before using
highway=motorway in an African village and how are they supposed to know
what the African wiki road tags are and how they relate to iD?

And please don't suggest I use iD for anything including validation.

Thanks John


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[HOT] small tiles

[Daniel Specht]

The tile size used for the Fiji projects is great for residential areas.
It's a lot more rewarding to be able to check off so many as done. If the
tiles were much bigger people would get discouraged or sloppy.

But outside the residential areas there are a lot of tiles with no
features, which wastes time loading tiles. I think the solution is to have
bigger tiles, maybe twice the length, and to split the tiles which are in
residential areas into 4 parts.

-- 
Dan
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[HOT] Difficulty in communicating with iD users

[john whelan]

The highway tags seen in JOSM are not apparently what an iD user sees.  I'm
trying very hard to put this politely but how ...  am I supposed to
communicate with an iD user to say please think twice before using
highway=motorway in an African village and how are they supposed to know
what the African wiki road tags are and how they relate to iD?

And please don't suggest I use iD for anything including validation.

Thanks John
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Re: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project completed

[Jo]

I try very hard not to invalidate, but if the mapper pressed Done, where he
or she should have pressed Unlock, I don't hesitate to do so. I do try to
write encouraging remarks. I also try to show them how JOSM is a lot better
adapted to getting actual work done. Usually be means of screencasts of
what was involved in gettting their task validated.

It created a very positive feedback loop. At the moment I'm validating the
Ugandan schools project though and there I'm happy to be the only one
validating. I created a 'tool' to assist me with the chore, but it's all
rather specific. Hard to get started on that project, as you have to create
a separate account and whatnot.

At some point, I'll probably get back to validating of the easy add
building projects and cherry picking those tasks that were done by newly
arriving mappers to guide them with their first steps into OSM mapping.

Polyglot

2016-03-04 19:47 GMT+01:00 Mike Thompson :

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 11:18 AM, john whelan 
> wrote:
>
>> I very rarely invalidate.
>>
> I am glad to hear that as it is my practice as well. I feel "Invalidation"
> is very discouraging. Still, even when fixing and then validating it would
> be good for those mappers who are interested in learning if there was an
> easy way they could see what fixes the validator made.
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project completed

[Mike Thompson]

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 11:18 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> I very rarely invalidate.
>
I am glad to hear that as it is my practice as well. I feel "Invalidation"
is very discouraging. Still, even when fixing and then validating it would
be good for those mappers who are interested in learning if there was an
easy way they could see what fixes the validator made.
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Re: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project completed

[john whelan]

>However what is the best way to give specific feedback to mappers when
validating? One can leave a comment in the task manager, such as "... some
buildings were missed", but they will not know which ones. I could drop a
note on an example, but do new mappers know about notes?

Generally I just add in the buildings and leave a comment @mapper added
twenty three new buildings, I very rarely invalidate.  Invalidation does a
couple of things, first the mapper may not ever map again so what's the
point, second you're left with a grey square, a few grey squares on the
project and everyone thinks the project instructions are too demanding and
difficult so avoid it.  In general I also avoid validating on projects that
ask for buildings too many unsquared buildings to fix up especially when
people have been using iD to map them.

Cheerio John

Cheerio John

On 4 March 2016 at 12:25, Mike Thompson  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:35 PM, john whelan  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Maperthons are nice in that you get a lot of people but for data quality
>> first time mappers aren't the best
>>
> I have run a number of mapathons and I have started going in to the
> project after the event and validating work that I believe was done by
> people that attended the mapathon (one can kind of match up real names with
> usernames and/or use the time stamp of when the task was marked complete in
> the tasking manager). It has given me some insight as to what to emphasize
> in the mapathon instructions/training.
>
>
>> and their productivity isn't anywhere near some of the more experienced
>> mappers using JOSM.
>>
> I view the function of mapathons not so much for mapping (although we do
> that of course), but to introduce people to OSM and humanitarian mapping so
> hopefully they will continue to do this on their own. We don't want people
> producing bad data, but small amounts of good data is ok if it means they
> are being introduced to the project, having fun, and getting a sense that
> they are contributing to a great cause.
>
>
>> What isn't mentioned here is the feedback, it is important getting the
>> tone right makes the difference between getting someone to map correctly in
>> the future or saying forget this I'm off to play badminton.
>>
> Yes!  It is very discouraging for anyone, let alone a new mapper, to get a
> negative comment. I always first tell them what they did right, and then
> suggest ways they could do even better in the future. Also, if there area
> only a few things wrong I fix them, validate the task, and then leave
> feedback.
>
> However what is the best way to give specific feedback to mappers when
> validating? One can leave a comment in the task manager, such as "... some
> buildings were missed", but they will not know which ones. I could drop a
> note on an example, but do new mappers know about notes?
>
> Mike
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project completed

[Mike Thompson]

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:35 PM, john whelan  wrote:

>
>
> Maperthons are nice in that you get a lot of people but for data quality
> first time mappers aren't the best
>
I have run a number of mapathons and I have started going in to the project
after the event and validating work that I believe was done by people that
attended the mapathon (one can kind of match up real names with usernames
and/or use the time stamp of when the task was marked complete in the
tasking manager). It has given me some insight as to what to emphasize in
the mapathon instructions/training.


> and their productivity isn't anywhere near some of the more experienced
> mappers using JOSM.
>
I view the function of mapathons not so much for mapping (although we do
that of course), but to introduce people to OSM and humanitarian mapping so
hopefully they will continue to do this on their own. We don't want people
producing bad data, but small amounts of good data is ok if it means they
are being introduced to the project, having fun, and getting a sense that
they are contributing to a great cause.


> What isn't mentioned here is the feedback, it is important getting the
> tone right makes the difference between getting someone to map correctly in
> the future or saying forget this I'm off to play badminton.
>
Yes!  It is very discouraging for anyone, let alone a new mapper, to get a
negative comment. I always first tell them what they did right, and then
suggest ways they could do even better in the future. Also, if there area
only a few things wrong I fix them, validate the task, and then leave
feedback.

However what is the best way to give specific feedback to mappers when
validating? One can leave a comment in the task manager, such as "... some
buildings were missed", but they will not know which ones. I could drop a
note on an example, but do new mappers know about notes?

Mike
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Re: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project completed

[Pete Masters]

I’d like to support what John is saying. The process that he describes has made 
a huge difference in the MSF / Missing Maps TM projects I am managing (and we 
are hugely grateful to those validators).

We have applied this to physical events and, thanks to the hard work of Ralph 
(RAytoun) and Nick (Tallguy), our validator trainers at the London mapathons, 
we are seeing more and more experienced mappers gaining confidence in, and 
enthusiasm for, validating. They validate the newbies’ work at mapathons in 
real time and, anecdotally, I think this has led to an increase in the quality 
of the data contributed, but also to the learning experience of those mappers. 
I would encourage anyone running mapping parties to have validators in the room 
if they are available – for us it has been invaluable.

Cheers,

Pete

Pete Masters
Missing Maps Project Coordinator
MSF UK
phone: +44 7921 781 518
skype: pedrito1414
twitter: @pedrito1414

@theMissingMaps
facebook.com/MissingMapsProject

missingmaps.org
msf.org.uk

From: john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com]
Sent: 04 March 2016 11:43
To: Russell Deffner
Cc: hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project 
completed

It doesn't work for fast large scale projects as you mention, you need more 
validators but for more average sized projects it works well.  Even on the 
larger faster projects you often see a team approach to validation.  You get to 
recognise mappers who map and validate, if you don't recognise the name you 
look their experience up then cast an eye over the work if they don't seem 
experineced.  You need to keep on top of the recently mapped tiles, at least 
twice a day validating, so its a fair bit of work on the validation side but by 
catching the mistakes early on you save a chunk of work later on.
This is looking at validation not so much as something the project managers do 
later on but more as problem prevention and often problem prevention is cheaper 
than problem sorting out.  Besides it gets more tiles out of the mappers by 
making them feel more involved.
Cheerio John

On 3 March 2016 at 21:30, Russell Deffner 
> wrote:
Hi John,

Of course; as always – great commentary on how to do better validation.

From my recent personal experience, there is no way to do any ‘large scale’ 
project(s) with one person validating.  As example, for Fiji – we have just 
crossed the 12 projects 100% complete/100% validated mark (without a 
‘full-blown activation”) and mostly I have created (and ‘third’ validated) 
those projects (thanks to Blake for created a handful).  However, as I just 
mentioned – I do a ‘third validation’ for any projects I create. So, I do try 
to ‘jump in’ and validate a few tiles while the project is in ‘first draft’. 
However, mostly I’m about 2 or 3 projects behind doing an entire ‘island-wide’ 
validation. In this case I can guarantee that if we had the ‘level of interest’ 
of a ‘international disaster’ (as far as media is concerned) then we would need 
about 3 or 4 people doing what I am doing now.

In general, especially with the ‘small islands’ of Fiji, it’s manageable to 
‘sort-of’ maintain the entire ‘incident’ with just a few of us; but HOT is 
definitely in need of building capacity (which is also one of the reason’s I 
was personally against an ‘activation declaration’ because I think more than a 
few hundred mappers focusing on Fiji would actually be bad).

=Russ

From: john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 5:36 PM
To: hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project 
completed

There have been a number of projects recently that have been mapped to a fairly 
high standard and within a much shorter time frame than most without having an 
urgent tag on them.
Basically they have had someone validating them from the beginning and 
validating the work as it is done.  For consistency reasons it's helpful if 
just one person takes the responsibility.  I think by now you're aware that 
your project gets the lime light for about two weeks before it falls below the 
newer projects on the list.  Those magic two weeks seem to make or break the 
project.  If you can get the interest of a few mappers in those two weeks then 
it starts to snowball and you get a sort of team effect.  To build on it I've 
seen a project manager role out a new project as the old one gets completed and 
manage to retain the experienced mappers who were mapping the first project.
Maperthons are nice in that you get a lot of people but for data quality first 
time mappers aren't the best and their productivity isn't anywhere near some 

[HOT] Crowd2 Map Tanzania

[Janet Chapman]

We're trying to print village level maps to send to Tanzania using
Maposmatic.org but can't get it to load any locations.

 

Also does anyone know any coders who might help us build an online
leaderboard for people uploading data on Epicollect details are here
 

Thank you!  Janet

 

 

From: Janet Chapman ( Campaigns Manager and Project Officer)

Address: 44 Mildenhall Road LONDON E5 0RU, UK

Mobile/SMS/WhatsApp: 0447815 053 779

Skype : jachapman82

Email:   j.chap...@tanzdevtrust.org 

LinkedIn uk.linkedin.com/in/janetchapman

Blog:  
http://hiaragirlpower.blogspot.co.uk/ 

 

The Tanzania Development Trust is UK Registered Charity No 270462

  www.tanzdevtrust.org

 

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Re: [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your project completed

[john whelan]

It doesn't work for fast large scale projects as you mention, you need more
validators but for more average sized projects it works well.  Even on the
larger faster projects you often see a team approach to validation.  You
get to recognise mappers who map and validate, if you don't recognise the
name you look their experience up then cast an eye over the work if they
don't seem experineced.  You need to keep on top of the recently mapped
tiles, at least twice a day validating, so its a fair bit of work on the
validation side but by catching the mistakes early on you save a chunk of
work later on.

This is looking at validation not so much as something the project managers
do later on but more as problem prevention and often problem prevention is
cheaper than problem sorting out.  Besides it gets more tiles out of the
mappers by making them feel more involved.

Cheerio John

On 3 March 2016 at 21:30, Russell Deffner 
wrote:

> Hi John,
>
>
>
> Of course; as always – great commentary on how to do better validation.
>
>
>
> From my recent personal experience, there is no way to do any ‘large
> scale’ project(s) with one person validating.  As example, for Fiji – we
> have just crossed the 12 projects 100% complete/100% validated mark
> (without a ‘full-blown activation”) and mostly I have created (and ‘third’
> validated) those projects (thanks to Blake for created a handful).
> However, as I just mentioned – I do a ‘third validation’ for any projects I
> create. So, I do try to ‘jump in’ and validate a few tiles while the
> project is in ‘first draft’. However, mostly I’m about 2 or 3 projects
> behind doing an entire ‘island-wide’ validation. In this case I can
> guarantee that if we had the ‘level of interest’ of a ‘international
> disaster’ (as far as media is concerned) then we would need about 3 or 4
> people doing what I am doing now.
>
>
>
> In general, especially with the ‘small islands’ of Fiji, it’s manageable
> to ‘sort-of’ maintain the entire ‘incident’ with just a few of us; but HOT
> is definitely in need of building capacity (which is also one of the
> reason’s I was personally against an ‘activation declaration’ because I
> think more than a few hundred mappers focusing on Fiji would actually be
> bad).
>
>
>
> =Russ
>
>
>
> *From:* john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2016 5:36 PM
> *To:* hot@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* [HOT] Comment to HOT project managers about getting your
> project completed
>
>
>
> There have been a number of projects recently that have been mapped to a
> fairly high standard and within a much shorter time frame than most without
> having an urgent tag on them.
>
> Basically they have had someone validating them from the beginning and
> validating the work as it is done.  For consistency reasons it's helpful if
> just one person takes the responsibility.  I think by now you're aware that
> your project gets the lime light for about two weeks before it falls below
> the newer projects on the list.  Those magic two weeks seem to make or
> break the project.  If you can get the interest of a few mappers in those
> two weeks then it starts to snowball and you get a sort of team effect.  To
> build on it I've seen a project manager role out a new project as the old
> one gets completed and manage to retain the experienced mappers who were
> mapping the first project.
>
> Maperthons are nice in that you get a lot of people but for data quality
> first time mappers aren't the best and their productivity isn't anywhere
> near some of the more experienced mappers using JOSM.  The other problem of
> new mappers is they sometimes validate other work which means you can't
> trust the validation.  Some maperthons are well organised and train well,
> they also get people coming back time after time so their mappers are not
> all inexperienced.  Others well, when you look at a project and see twenty
> untagged ways, or fifty buildings tagged as area=yes you question the
> training.
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>
> What isn't mentioned here is the feedback, it is important getting the
> tone right makes the difference between getting someone to map correctly in
> the future or saying forget this I'm off to play badminton.  Mappers have
> different cultures and backgrounds, they are volunteers so treat them
> gently and use third party things like the African highway wiki suggests
> rather than you're an idiot for using living street in an African village.
>
> I don't have a magic supply of validators but if you find one be nice to
> them and grab them for your project day one.  Two months into the project
> cleaning up all the mistakes that have taken place when new mappers weren't
> corrected early is a hard slog for a validator.
>
> If you want project numbers that support this approach email me separately.
>
> Thanks John
>

Re: [HOT] Devex article featuring HOT community members

[Heather Leson]

Well done everyone.

Heather

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Tyler Radford 
wrote:

>
> https://www.devex.com/news/what-s-needed-to-put-more-people-on-the-map-87650
>
> Great contributions by HOT members Drishtie Patel, Katja Ulbert, and also
> by Stamen Design
>
> Tyler
> *Tyler Radford*
> Executive Director
> email: tyler.radf...@hotosm.org
> U.S. mobile: +1 617.285.2009
>
> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
> *Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
> web  | twitter  | facebook
>  | donate 
>
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>
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