Re: [HOT] How to become a validator (a suggestion)

[graham]

Thanks for you feedback John and Blake,


I have tried to pull out some of the points raised here, for my 
understanding and perhaps for others:



There are different standards of mapping and to some extent different 
standards of validation needed, depending on the project.


In-country knowledge of the country can effect the quality of 
mapping/validation.


A good mapper does not mean that their are a good validator, different 
skill sets are needed.


The capacity to map/validate is also dependant to some degree on the the 
quality of the video system and screen one is using.


There seems to be a difference of quality of mapping depending on the 
software used: JOSM vs. iD. Is this an issue to be addressed?


Was it suggested that coaching is a good way for people to become good 
validators?


Certain projects could do with a certified validator but naturally to 
have a "badge" is not for everybody.


A link to validating guidelines 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data


Please say if I missed and misrepresented your points.


Regards,
Graham



On 5/4/2016 21:49, john whelan wrote:
I think the point was that that there are different standards of 
mapping and to some extent validation as well.  In Nepal we had time 
and resource constraints and I must confess I took some short cuts and 
didn't do a through a job as could have been done.  Sometimes it's a 
judgement call and I think as you and I have discussed sometimes some 
validators do an excellent job but check rather more than either of us 
would when validating.


I've even heard a whisper of a validator taking one look at someone's 
work and zapping it and just remapping as it was quicker but of course 
that never happens in OSM and would never be documented.


Cheerio John

On 5 April 2016 at 09:36, Blake Girardot > wrote:




On 4/5/2016 3:15 PM, john whelan wrote:

Blake thought my methods of validation in Nepal left much to be
desired.


That sounds a little strong :) I forget the question I had or the
comment, but after talking with you I was good with it and agreed
is all I remember.

>I agreed but given that 70% of the mappers were new even the

basic validation I did improved the data quality quickly.


This I 100% agree with.

Cheers,
Blake


I also had a

couple of mappers who were visually checking tiles and finding
30% more
buildings sometimes.  Which comes back to the quality of the video
system and screen you’re using.  “Why does your laptop show
the image in
JOSM better than mine in iD?”  The lap top I was using was an
old Dell
professional grade one and my desktop screen at home shows an even
clearer image.  So the equipment the validator has available
might be an
important factor on the quality of the validation.

To me validation is a form of coaching being good at something
doesn’t
mean you make a good coach.  To me Maperthons are a source of
a dozen
new mappers and really questionable data.  The faster we can
get in and
give feedback the better.  When you need to add 50 settlements
to a tile
it takes resources and to do this I’ve used sensible mappers
with a
month’s experience and delegated.  If its just
highway=unclassified and
landuse=residential that’s fine.  I’ve also seen mappers with
a thousand
edits to their name who don’t make good validators, the
project asks for
settlements and connecting highways, they like to map all the
tracks as
well.  I’ve seen tiles invalidated for missing things that
were not
requested in the project instructions.

It also needs tact, a European mapper who has been mapping
locally will
almost certainly use the wrong tags in Africa for highways. 
They’re

high quality mappers of the type Africa needs but invalidating
the tile
because the tags are wrong may not help with the retention rates.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
is a start, I’m not certain I agree with every statement but
it’s a good
start.

There is a problem with iD mappers they tend to have more
crossing ways
and highways that almost meet than others.  Probably because
there is no
easy way to check for these in iD. So whilst I would comment JOSM
validation detected six crossing ways normally, if I know
they’re an iD
editor I just correct and don’t comment.

If it’s a more complex project, map and tag everything in
sight I don’t
even bother validating these days.  I’ll let someone else with
more
experience 

[HOT] Humanitarian Mapathon - Longmont Colorado US

[Mike Thompson]

Front Range Community College (FRCC) Boulder County Campus will be hosting
a Humanitarian Mapathon at 5:00pm MDT (-6 UTC) on Wednesday 2016-04-13 at
Oskar Blues Brewery in Longmont.  Details are here:
http://www.meetup.com/OSM-Colorado/events/230153596/

 1) If you are in the Denver-Longmont area, please attend! This is the
first OpenStreetMap related event that FRCC has sponsored (that the
organizers know of). If you are experienced with OSM but don't have a
laptop, please attend anyway.  Your assistance with newer mappers will be
greatly appreciated!

2) Validators (remote or in person) are being requested.  We will be adding
#FRCC to our change set comments (along with meaningful information about
the actual changes made).  The Meetup announcement will contain the details
of the project to be worked on.

Mike
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Re: [HOT] Friendly reminder not to upload sample.osm during a mapping training

[althio]

For reference on this subject:

https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/335

On 5 April 2016 at 22:33, Jaakko Helleranta  wrote:
> I was about to say that the XML headers of the sample.osm file should of
> course have upload=false ... but checking the file it (of course) has that
> already.
>
> This reminds me of a discussion from a while back where me another JOSM user
> (& non-developer) were wondering if there could be a file format that would
> not allow uploading but that would show data as it is for simply viewing or
> locally tinkering with purposes.
> Now thinking about this I wonder if it would be a huge thing to have a JOSM
> header option upload=never that would make it impossible to upload the file?
> This would solve this problem here and essentially force to change the
> header manually into false or true before and upload could happen.
>
> I would assume that such a tweak to JOSM code would not be huge and I could
> file a ticket if at least someone else thinks it could make sense.
>
> Just a thought,
> -Jaakko
>
> --
> Nicaragua main mobile/WhatsApp/Telegram: +505-8131-0729, Alt. mobile
> 8845-3391
> Global (Google) Voice / SMS: +1-202-730-9778 * Skype: jhelleranta
> Twitter / Facebook: @jaakkoh * LinkedIn * http://jaakko.helleranta.com
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 6:47 AM, maning sambale 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> See this: http://osmcha-django-staging.tilestream.net/37558836/
>>
>> In case you are running a mapping workshop and use the sample.osm data
>> from learnosm.  Please advise mappers not to upload.
>>
>> I made the same mistake before (so sorry), so please remind them or,
>> at the end of the training checkout Null island and delete the data.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --
>> cheers,
>> maning
>> --
>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
>> --
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Mike Thompson]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> On 4/5/2016 11:49 AM, Michael Heißmeier wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> there is another option which I occasionally use. Depending on the area in
> question you might find more-or-less outdated US military maps (JOG/AMS
> etc.) which have the advantage that there is no copyright associated with
> them. They tend to be fairly exact as far as terrain and waterbodies are
> concerned and sometimes are good sources for the names of such bodies as
> well.
>
> For your specific area the one to choose would be
>
> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/jog/southern_africa/se-35-7-binga-southern_rhodesia-zambia.jpg
>
>
> The map you linked is copyrighted and published in 1972 by the Director of
> Military Survey, Ministry of Defense, United Kingdom, so we can't use it.
>
> Paul, thanks for pointing this out before I was able to start using it or
had worked it into the instructions for the mapathon.
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Paul Norman]

On 4/5/2016 11:49 AM, Michael Heißmeier wrote:

Hi Mike,

there is another option which I occasionally use. Depending on the 
area in question you might find more-or-less outdated US military maps 
(JOG/AMS etc.) which have the advantage that there is no copyright 
associated with them. They tend to be fairly exact as far as terrain 
and waterbodies are concerned and sometimes are good sources for the 
names of such bodies as well.


For your specific area the one to choose would be
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/jog/southern_africa/se-35-7-binga-southern_rhodesia-zambia.jpg


The map you linked is copyrighted and published in 1972 by the Director 
of Military Survey, Ministry of Defense, United Kingdom, so we can't use it.
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Re: [HOT] maposmatic.org not functioning ?

[Harry Wood]

I reached them on github
https://github.com/maposmatic/maposmatic/issues/5#issuecomment-205977352
and apparently it's just temporarily offline.


Harry

From: Blake Girardot 
To: Ahasanul Hoque ; "hot@openstreetmap.org" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2016, 16:41
Subject: Re: [HOT] maposmatic.org not functioning ?


Hi Ahasan,

It is not working for me either. The GIS database has been down for a 
while now (at least a week) so it was not generating maps, but now I see 
the website is offline too.

That is too bad, it was a great site.

Cheers
Blake

On 4/5/2016 8:28 PM, Ahasanul Hoque wrote:
> Hi,
> Does anyone know what happened to http://maposmatic.org/  ? The page is
> not working !!!
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Ahasan
>
> .
> Ahasanul Hoque
> GIS & Env. Data Mgt Specialist
> MSc in RS and GIS | /AIT, Thailand./
> MSc. in Env. Science| /KU, Bangladesh./
> 
> *Diploma in Disaster Mgt & Humanitarian Response* |
> /Uni of Hawai-USA, UNU, Keio& Okayama - Japan; AIT-Thailand./
> *'
> *
>
>
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>

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Re: [HOT] Friendly reminder not to upload sample.osm during a mapping training

[Jaakko Helleranta]

I was about to say that the XML headers of the sample.osm file should of
course have upload=false ... but checking the file it (of course) has that
already.

This reminds me of a discussion from a while back where me another JOSM
user (& non-developer) were wondering if there could be a file format that
would not allow uploading but that would show data as it is for simply
viewing or locally tinkering with purposes.
Now thinking about this I wonder if it would be a huge thing to have a JOSM
header option upload=never that would make it impossible to upload the
file? This would solve this problem here and essentially force to change
the header manually into false or true before and upload could happen.

I would assume that such a tweak to JOSM code would not be huge and I could
file a ticket if at least someone else thinks it could make sense.

Just a thought,
-Jaakko

--
Nicaragua main mobile/WhatsApp/Telegram: +505-8131-0729, Alt. mobile
8845-3391
Global (Google) Voice / SMS: +1-202-730-9778 * Skype: jhelleranta
Twitter  / Facebook
: @jaakkoh * LinkedIn
 * http://jaakko.helleranta.com

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 6:47 AM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> See this: http://osmcha-django-staging.tilestream.net/37558836/
>
> In case you are running a mapping workshop and use the sample.osm data
> from learnosm.  Please advise mappers not to upload.
>
> I made the same mistake before (so sorry), so please remind them or,
> at the end of the training checkout Null island and delete the data.
>
> Thanks!
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
> --
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
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Re: [HOT] maposmatic.org not functioning ?

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Ahasan,

It is not working for me either. The GIS database has been down for a 
while now (at least a week) so it was not generating maps, but now I see 
the website is offline too.


That is too bad, it was a great site.

Cheers
Blake

On 4/5/2016 8:28 PM, Ahasanul Hoque wrote:

Hi,
Does anyone know what happened to http://maposmatic.org/  ? The page is
not working !!!

Thanks in advance

Ahasan

.
Ahasanul Hoque
GIS & Env. Data Mgt Specialist
MSc in RS and GIS | /AIT, Thailand./
MSc. in Env. Science| /KU, Bangladesh./

*Diploma in Disaster Mgt & Humanitarian Response* |
/Uni of Hawai-USA, UNU, Keio& Okayama - Japan; AIT-Thailand./
*'
*


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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Arun Ganesh]

Getting the flow directions correct can be tricky. In any case, its should
be easy to find and correct waterways with an incorrect flow using a tool
like osmose http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/

Have fun at the mapathon!

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 12:35 AM, Mike Thompson  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Michael Heißmeier <
> michae...@digital-filestore.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> there is another option which I occasionally use. Depending on the area
>> in question you might find more-or-less outdated US military maps (JOG/AMS
>> etc.) which have the advantage that there is no copyright associated with
>> them. They tend to be fairly exact as far as terrain and waterbodies are
>> concerned and sometimes are good sources for the names of such bodies as
>> well.
>>
> Wow, this is an excellent source! Thanks.  Might it be a good idea of HOT
> projects mentioned this source where available and appropriate?
>
> Mike
>
>
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>


-- 
Arun Ganesh
@planemad

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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Mike Thompson]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Ezra Boyd  wrote:

>
> -  Look for things like locks, spillways, bridges, etc. that would cause
> whitewater and use that to determine flow direction
> -  Rivers and streams tend to flow toward larger waterbodies, such as
> lakes, gulfs and oceans.  Look for things likes deltas to help determine
> flow direction
> -  Also, they tend to converge with other rivers & streams downstream.
> Look for the Y's where two rivers converge, with the being toward the base
> of the Y
> -  Rivers and streams tend to be wider downstream.
> -  Because of above, larger navigational vessels tend to be found
> downstream
> -  Because of the above, larger settlements tend to be found downstream.
>
Thanks Ezra.  All good advice.  I will caution that most lakes will have at
least one river/stream flowing away from them. The exception is a lake that
is part of an endorheic basin[1] such as the Great Salt Lake in the US.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorheic_basin

>
>
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Mike Thompson]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Michael Heißmeier <
michae...@digital-filestore.de> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> there is another option which I occasionally use. Depending on the area in
> question you might find more-or-less outdated US military maps (JOG/AMS
> etc.) which have the advantage that there is no copyright associated with
> them. They tend to be fairly exact as far as terrain and waterbodies are
> concerned and sometimes are good sources for the names of such bodies as
> well.
>
Wow, this is an excellent source! Thanks.  Might it be a good idea of HOT
projects mentioned this source where available and appropriate?

Mike
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Bryan Housel]

Ah, sorry I read your email too quickly.
I’ll add OpenCycleMap as a background layer in iD - I agree that the contour 
data is useful.
In the meantime, yes you can add it as a custom background layer as Blake 
described.
Thanks, Bryan



> On Apr 5, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Bryan Housel  > wrote:
> Hi Mike, waterways in iD are rendered with directional arrows (see attached). 
> OpenStreetMap convention is to draw the way in the direction of the flow, 
> much like oneway roads.
> Thanks for your response.
> 
> I didn't explain the problem well enough. The issue isn't determining the 
> direction of the geometry once it is drawn, but determining the real life 
> flow direction based solely on overhead imagery (so one can draw the geometry 
> correctly). 
> 
> Mike
> 

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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Ezra Boyd]

Here are a few other tips that might work:
-  Look for things like locks, spillways, bridges, etc. that would cause
whitewater and use that to determine flow direction
-  Rivers and streams tend to flow toward larger waterbodies, such as
lakes, gulfs and oceans.  Look for things likes deltas to help determine
flow direction
-  Also, they tend to converge with other rivers & streams downstream.
Look for the Y's where two rivers converge, with the being toward the base
of the Y
-  Rivers and streams tend to be wider downstream.
-  Because of above, larger navigational vessels tend to be found downstream
-  Because of the above, larger settlements tend to be found downstream.

Of course, these are general rules of thumb and there are exceptions.  For
example, a river might widen into a lake and then have a narrow stream
flowing from the lake.  Likewise, dredging may artificially widen a river
segment between two industrial centers.  Still, I think these rules along
with Blake's tips should get you most of the way there.

Hope it helps!!!

Ezra


On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Blake Girardot 
> wrote:
>
>>  seeing the area might help a bit to see if anyone has any tips.
>
> The general area is that which is around this node:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4100183177 (note I have already mapped
> the waterway which that node is part of using JOSM and OCM)
>
>
>>
>> whitewater points in the direction of flow, meaning it trails after the
>> obstruction in the waterway.
>>
> Good tip!  I hadn't thought of that..  In this case these appear to be
> intermittent waterways (albeit rather wide), and there is very little water
> shown in the Bing imagery, let alone whitewater.
>
>>
>> you can also put the opencyclemap url into the custom background in iD,
>> the url is:
>> http://tile.opencyclemap.org/cycle/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
>
> I was trying to keep this simple, but this might be the way to go.
>
>>
>>
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>


-- 
Ezra Boyd, PhD
DisasterMap.net, LLC 
ezgis 7...@gmail.com 
(504)533-4447
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Michael Heißmeier]

Hi Mike,

there is another option which I occasionally use. Depending on the area in 
question you might find more-or-less outdated US military maps (JOG/AMS etc.) 
which have the advantage that there is no copyright associated with them. They 
tend to be fairly exact as far as terrain and waterbodies are concerned and 
sometimes are good sources for the names of such bodies as well.


For your specific area the one to choose would be
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/jog/southern_africa/se-35-7-binga-southern_rhodesia-zambia.jpg

I attached a clip of it to this mail. Looks as if these intermittent rivers are 
visible on this map, flowing WSW into the lake.


Best Regards
/Michael
(osm:michael63) /
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[HOT] maposmatic.org not functioning ?

[Ahasanul Hoque]

Hi,
Does anyone know what happened to http://maposmatic.org/  ? The page is not
working !!!

Thanks in advance

Ahasan

.
Ahasanul Hoque

*GIS & Env. Data Mgt Specialist*MSc in RS and GIS | *AIT, Thailand.*
MSc. in Env. Science| *KU, Bangladesh.*
*Diploma in Disaster Mgt & Humanitarian Response* |
*Uni of Hawai-USA, UNU, Keio& Okayama - Japan; AIT-Thailand.*

*'*
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Mike Thompson]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Blake Girardot  wrote:

>  seeing the area might help a bit to see if anyone has any tips.

The general area is that which is around this node:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4100183177 (note I have already mapped
the waterway which that node is part of using JOSM and OCM)


>
> whitewater points in the direction of flow, meaning it trails after the
> obstruction in the waterway.
>
Good tip!  I hadn't thought of that..  In this case these appear to be
intermittent waterways (albeit rather wide), and there is very little water
shown in the Bing imagery, let alone whitewater.

>
> you can also put the opencyclemap url into the custom background in iD,
> the url is:
> http://tile.opencyclemap.org/cycle/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png

I was trying to keep this simple, but this might be the way to go.

>
>
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Mike, seeing the area might help a bit to see if anyone has any tips. 
It can be difficult to get the water flow directions right even with OCM.


My general tips are, with limited effectiveness:

zoom out a lot to see what the general watershed and terrain looks like

whitewater points in the direction of flow, meaning it trails after the 
obstruction in the waterway.


Try and follow the waterway to where it connects up to larger or 
originates from.


you can also put the opencyclemap url into the custom background in iD, 
the url is:

http://tile.opencyclemap.org/cycle/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png

Then just switch to it and switch back for mapping.

Cheers
blake





On 4/5/2016 7:33 PM, Mike Thompson wrote:

When editing in JOSM I use the OpenCycleMap layer to help determine the
direction a waterway flows (OpenCycleMap has elevation contour lines).
However, I will be hosting a mapathon where the participants will be
using iD. How might one determine flow direction in iD?

Mike


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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Mike Thompson]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:42 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> Quietly do the rivers before anyone starts in JOSM?
>
> iD has its limitations so I'd be tempted to either accept that waterways
> will flow the wrong way 50% of the time and hope the validators will
> correct it or don't bother to map the waterways in iD.
>
Thanks John.  Those may be the only options, even if they are far less than
ideal.

Mike
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Re: [HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Bryan Housel]

Hi Mike, waterways in iD are rendered with directional arrows  (see screenshot: 
 http://i.imgur.com/E5n9SPM.png  ). 
OpenStreetMap convention is to draw the way in the direction of the flow, much 
like oneway roads.

Have a great mapathon!
Bryan



> On Apr 5, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:
> 
> When editing in JOSM I use the OpenCycleMap layer to help determine the 
> direction a waterway flows (OpenCycleMap has elevation contour lines). 
> However, I will be hosting a mapathon where the participants will be using 
> iD. How might one determine flow direction in iD?
> 
> Mike
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[HOT] Waterway - Determining Flow Direction

[Mike Thompson]

When editing in JOSM I use the OpenCycleMap layer to help determine the
direction a waterway flows (OpenCycleMap has elevation contour lines).
However, I will be hosting a mapathon where the participants will be using
iD. How might one determine flow direction in iD?

Mike
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Re: [HOT] How to become a validator (a suggestion)

[john whelan]

I think the point was that that there are different standards of mapping
and to some extent validation as well.  In Nepal we had time and resource
constraints and I must confess I took some short cuts and didn't do a
through a job as could have been done.  Sometimes it's a judgement call and
I think as you and I have discussed sometimes some validators do an
excellent job but check rather more than either of us would when validating.

I've even heard a whisper of a validator taking one look at someone's work
and zapping it and just remapping as it was quicker but of course that
never happens in OSM and would never be documented.

Cheerio John

On 5 April 2016 at 09:36, Blake Girardot  wrote:

>
>
> On 4/5/2016 3:15 PM, john whelan wrote:
>
> Blake thought my methods of validation in Nepal left much to be
>> desired.
>>
>
> That sounds a little strong :) I forget the question I had or the comment,
> but after talking with you I was good with it and agreed is all I remember.
>
> >I agreed but given that 70% of the mappers were new even the
>
>> basic validation I did improved the data quality quickly.
>>
>
> This I 100% agree with.
>
> Cheers,
> Blake
>
>
> I also had a
>
>> couple of mappers who were visually checking tiles and finding 30% more
>> buildings sometimes.  Which comes back to the quality of the video
>> system and screen you’re using.  “Why does your laptop show the image in
>> JOSM better than mine in iD?”  The lap top I was using was an old Dell
>> professional grade one and my desktop screen at home shows an even
>> clearer image.  So the equipment the validator has available might be an
>> important factor on the quality of the validation.
>>
>> To me validation is a form of coaching being good at something doesn’t
>> mean you make a good coach.  To me Maperthons are a source of a dozen
>> new mappers and really questionable data.  The faster we can get in and
>> give feedback the better.  When you need to add 50 settlements to a tile
>> it takes resources and to do this I’ve used sensible mappers with a
>> month’s experience and delegated.  If its just highway=unclassified and
>> landuse=residential that’s fine.  I’ve also seen mappers with a thousand
>> edits to their name who don’t make good validators, the project asks for
>> settlements and connecting highways, they like to map all the tracks as
>> well.  I’ve seen tiles invalidated for missing things that were not
>> requested in the project instructions.
>>
>> It also needs tact, a European mapper who has been mapping locally will
>> almost certainly use the wrong tags in Africa for highways.  They’re
>> high quality mappers of the type Africa needs but invalidating the tile
>> because the tags are wrong may not help with the retention rates.
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>> is a start, I’m not certain I agree with every statement but it’s a good
>> start.
>>
>> There is a problem with iD mappers they tend to have more crossing ways
>> and highways that almost meet than others.  Probably because there is no
>> easy way to check for these in iD. So whilst I would comment JOSM
>> validation detected six crossing ways normally, if I know they’re an iD
>> editor I just correct and don’t comment.
>>
>> If it’s a more complex project, map and tag everything in sight I don’t
>> even bother validating these days.  I’ll let someone else with more
>> experience than I go and do it.  I only have 8,000+ edits to my name.
>> These projects certainly could do with a certified validator and to be
>> honest I have no interest in getting a badge.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 5 April 2016 at 05:37, graham > > wrote:
>>
>> Dear Hi,
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> With the subject of validators in that last few emails, and past
>> emails thread discussing how to know when some one can start validating or
>> not. How much experience does one need? One may think that they are good,
>> but other may not etc..
>> 
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> So, I thought to just suggest an idea. I am not sure what people
>> might think about it, maybe it has already been discussed before.
>> Maybe the issue has been solved already.
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> The idea:
>>
>> I think that maybe if there was a process to become officially
>> recognised as an"Validator", then it would be a "position" worth achieving,
>> it would make it a challenge. For now, I do not think that there is any
>> solid pre-requisite to be a validator?
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Below I am suggesting a potential avenue to become an official
>> validator:
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> 1) To complete a minimum number of tiles, as proof of commitment to
>> HOT and direct experience with HOT mapping (regardless of one's
>> professional career), then 2) to take a short test of proficiency.
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Details:
>>
>> 1) Can members the 

Re: [HOT] How to become a validator (a suggestion)

[Blake Girardot]

On 4/5/2016 3:15 PM, john whelan wrote:


Blake thought my methods of validation in Nepal left much to be
desired.


That sounds a little strong :) I forget the question I had or the 
comment, but after talking with you I was good with it and agreed is all 
I remember.


>I agreed but given that 70% of the mappers were new even the

basic validation I did improved the data quality quickly.


This I 100% agree with.

Cheers,
Blake


I also had a

couple of mappers who were visually checking tiles and finding 30% more
buildings sometimes.  Which comes back to the quality of the video
system and screen you’re using.  “Why does your laptop show the image in
JOSM better than mine in iD?”  The lap top I was using was an old Dell
professional grade one and my desktop screen at home shows an even
clearer image.  So the equipment the validator has available might be an
important factor on the quality of the validation.

To me validation is a form of coaching being good at something doesn’t
mean you make a good coach.  To me Maperthons are a source of a dozen
new mappers and really questionable data.  The faster we can get in and
give feedback the better.  When you need to add 50 settlements to a tile
it takes resources and to do this I’ve used sensible mappers with a
month’s experience and delegated.  If its just highway=unclassified and
landuse=residential that’s fine.  I’ve also seen mappers with a thousand
edits to their name who don’t make good validators, the project asks for
settlements and connecting highways, they like to map all the tracks as
well.  I’ve seen tiles invalidated for missing things that were not
requested in the project instructions.

It also needs tact, a European mapper who has been mapping locally will
almost certainly use the wrong tags in Africa for highways.  They’re
high quality mappers of the type Africa needs but invalidating the tile
because the tags are wrong may not help with the retention rates.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
is a start, I’m not certain I agree with every statement but it’s a good
start.

There is a problem with iD mappers they tend to have more crossing ways
and highways that almost meet than others.  Probably because there is no
easy way to check for these in iD. So whilst I would comment JOSM
validation detected six crossing ways normally, if I know they’re an iD
editor I just correct and don’t comment.

If it’s a more complex project, map and tag everything in sight I don’t
even bother validating these days.  I’ll let someone else with more
experience than I go and do it.  I only have 8,000+ edits to my name.
These projects certainly could do with a certified validator and to be
honest I have no interest in getting a badge.

Cheerio John

On 5 April 2016 at 05:37, graham > wrote:

Dear Hi,

__ __

With the subject of validators in that last few emails, and past emails 
thread discussing how to know when some one can start validating or not. How 
much experience does one need? One may think that they are good, but other may 
not etc..


__ __

So, I thought to just suggest an idea. I am not sure what people might 
think about it, maybe it has already been discussed before.
Maybe the issue has been solved already.

__ __

The idea:

I think that maybe if there was a process to become officially recognised as 
an"Validator", then it would be a "position" worth achieving, it would make it 
a challenge. For now, I do not think that there is any solid pre-requisite to be a validator?

__ __

Below I am suggesting a potential avenue to become an official 
validator:

__ __

1) To complete a minimum number of tiles, as proof of commitment to HOT and 
direct experience with HOT mapping (regardless of one's professional career), 
then 2) to take a short test of proficiency.

__ __

Details:

1) Can members the HOT team determine the number of tiles each user has completed? I 
know that more that one user can complete one tile, but perhaps if one user completes a 
high percentage of a tile (of all the points, line, and polygons), that would be 
considered a "complete tile" for this purpose. As for another users then 
reworking the tile, this is another discussion point.

__ __

2)The test might be to review a number of tiles from previous projects and 
they need to comment on the quality of the digitalisation and complete any 
reworking that is needed. A minimum number of tiles need to be correct, (to a 
certain standard), in order to pass the test. In each test, a random subset of 
tiles for a complete selection of tiles could be used, so that not cheating 
could occur.

__ __

__ __

Additionally, these official validators could have a symbol next to their users 
names. This way, when a mapper asks for advise regarding their mapping, the mapper would 

Re: [HOT] How to become a validator (a suggestion)

[john whelan]

I've probably done more validation than most.  There is often no record of
my involvement with a project.

I tend to be pragmatic, I’ve been into projects were I’ve changed close to
a thousand area=yes to buildings=yes.  You don’t need a degree in Rocket
Science to do this.  JOSM validation will pick them out, select by mapper,
after the first twenty by the same mapper have been checked I may just
convert the rest.

Blake thought my methods of validation in Nepal left much to be desired.  I
agreed but given that 70% of the mappers were new even the basic validation
I did improved the data quality quickly.  I also had a couple of mappers
who were visually checking tiles and finding 30% more buildings sometimes.
Which comes back to the quality of the video system and screen you’re
using.  “Why does your laptop show the image in JOSM better than mine in
iD?”  The lap top I was using was an old Dell professional grade one and my
desktop screen at home shows an even clearer image.  So the equipment the
validator has available might be an important factor on the quality of the
validation.

To me validation is a form of coaching being good at something doesn’t mean
you make a good coach.  To me Maperthons are a source of a dozen new
mappers and really questionable data.  The faster we can get in and give
feedback the better.  When you need to add 50 settlements to a tile it
takes resources and to do this I’ve used sensible mappers with a month’s
experience and delegated.  If its just highway=unclassified and
landuse=residential that’s fine.  I’ve also seen mappers with a thousand
edits to their name who don’t make good validators, the project asks for
settlements and connecting highways, they like to map all the tracks as
well.  I’ve seen tiles invalidated for missing things that were not
requested in the project instructions.

It also needs tact, a European mapper who has been mapping locally will
almost certainly use the wrong tags in Africa for highways.  They’re high
quality mappers of the type Africa needs but invalidating the tile because
the tags are wrong may not help with the retention rates.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data is a
start, I’m not certain I agree with every statement but it’s a good start.

There is a problem with iD mappers they tend to have more crossing ways and
highways that almost meet than others.  Probably because there is no easy
way to check for these in iD. So whilst I would comment JOSM validation
detected six crossing ways normally, if I know they’re an iD editor I just
correct and don’t comment.

If it’s a more complex project, map and tag everything in sight I don’t
even bother validating these days.  I’ll let someone else with more
experience than I go and do it.  I only have 8,000+ edits to my name. These
projects certainly could do with a certified validator and to be honest I
have no interest in getting a badge.

Cheerio John

On 5 April 2016 at 05:37, graham  wrote:

> Dear Hi,
>
>
>
>
> With the subject of validators in that last few emails, and past emails 
> thread discussing how to know when some one can start validating or not. How 
> much experience does one need? One may think that they are good, but other 
> may not etc..
>
>
>
> So, I thought to just suggest an idea. I am not sure what people might think 
> about it, maybe it has already been discussed before.
> Maybe the issue has been solved already.
>
>
>
> The idea:
>
>
> I think that maybe if there was a process to become officially recognised as 
> an"Validator", then it would be a "position" worth achieving, it would make 
> it a challenge. For now, I do not think that there is any solid pre-requisite 
> to be a validator?
>
>
>
> Below I am suggesting a potential avenue to become an official validator:
>
>
>
>
> 1) To complete a minimum number of tiles, as proof of commitment to HOT and 
> direct experience with HOT mapping (regardless of one's professional career), 
> then 2) to take a short test of proficiency.
>
>
>
> Details:
>
>
> 1) Can members the HOT team determine the number of tiles each user has 
> completed? I know that more that one user can complete one tile, but perhaps 
> if one user completes a high percentage of a tile (of all the points, line, 
> and polygons), that would be considered a "complete tile" for this purpose. 
> As for another users then reworking the tile, this is another discussion 
> point.
>
>
>
> 2)
> The test might be to review a number of tiles from previous projects and they 
> need to comment on the quality of the digitalisation and complete any 
> reworking that is needed. A minimum number of tiles need to be correct, (to a 
> certain standard), in order to pass the test. In each test, a random subset 
> of tiles for a complete selection of tiles could be used, so that not 
> cheating could occur.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Additionally, these official validators could have a symbol next to their 
> users names. This 

[HOT] Friendly reminder not to upload sample.osm during a mapping training

[maning sambale]

Hi,

See this: http://osmcha-django-staging.tilestream.net/37558836/

In case you are running a mapping workshop and use the sample.osm data
from learnosm.  Please advise mappers not to upload.

I made the same mistake before (so sorry), so please remind them or,
at the end of the training checkout Null island and delete the data.

Thanks!
-- 
cheers,
maning
--
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/maningsambale
--

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[HOT] Fwd: Mapping in Sardinia with the Tasking Manager

[Associazione Sardinia Open Data]

Dear HOT Team members

my name is Claudia and I 'm writing on the behave on an italian association
called SardiniaOpenData. Since 2013  we are involved in free training and
mapping using OSM , related to our urban context and to the humantarian
world as I was deployed in Chad with you guys ( thanks again for the
opportunity ) .

I'm writing to you because we finally manage to have a small finanincig to
organise a 3 modules course, to trainin citizens to map first using OSM,
secondly how to use  WheelMap   training the paraplegic
associationinCagliari . The second module will be about the Tasking Manager
and how to contribute to the remote mapping.

We have planned 2 outside  mapping parties  to collect data and 3 indoor
lessons to teach them how does the Tasking works. The period will be May
2016 . For the first year we manage to have free materials to offer to
ours attendants, expecially a personal  usb card with a free distribution
of Linux ( I think Ubuntu 14.04 lts ) with all the tools and programs
already installed, JOSM,website bookmarks concerning all the OSM world,
WkiOSM, LearnOSM, etc..

We wanted to let you know about our training and to share our enthusiasm .
There will be some blog posts out soon , both in  english and italian.  If
you will like to share it, all the team will be really happy.
If thereis  any specific task you'd like us to help , just let us know. As
I did with the last training , I will spend with great pleasure  15 minutes
talking about the HOT Team and your amazing work.

Have a great day and thaks again !


*The most dangerous thing to do is to stand still.“ William Burroughs *
We keep on moving !

Claudia
Sardinia Open Data
twitter: @sard_opendata



-- 
--
Sardinia Open Data
twitter: @sard_opendata
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Re: [HOT] HOT in Research - Casual meetup

[Heather Leson]

HI everyone,

I've been head down at work and about to travel. Can we aim for the 1st
week of May?  To that end, I'll send a doodle so that we can plan.

Heather

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com

On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 10:06 PM, Robert Soden 
wrote:

> Thanks to everyone who attended this morning.  Here are some notes
> from the call:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16iP5OmAGJYaBuhNr5uxbR8lGX-huhsNtTDQLDs7kfys/edit#
>
> We are going to be organizing a "research scramble" in the next few
> weeks to kick off a process of gathering and analyzing existing
> research on HOT's work.  Please get in touch if you'd like to
> participate.  We will also announce details on this list once they are
> sorted.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Heather Leson 
> wrote:
> > Hi folks
> >
> > Reminder the HOT Research chat ia in 1 hour on mumble.
> >
> > Talk soon
> > Heather
> >
> > On 1 Mar 2016 09:17, "Heather Leson"  wrote:
> >>
> >> HI everyone, Reminder about our HOT Research Meeting tomorrow:
> >>
> >>
> >> The HOT Casual Research mumble chat will be on:
> >>
> >> Wednesday, March 2nd, 2016
> >> Timezones: 15:00 UTC/18:00 AST/10:00 EST/07:00 PST/
> >>
> >> Duration: 1 hour
> >>
> >>
> >> How to join:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mumble
> >>
> >> Agenda:
> >> Review the Academic Partnership Guide
> >> Review Research Topics
> >> Coordinate HOT Research Scramble (collect the existing research)
> >> Consider future recommendations
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Heather
> >>
> >> Heather Leson
> >> heatherle...@gmail.com
> >> Twitter: HeatherLeson
> >> Blog: textontechs.com
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Heather Leson 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks everyone.
> >>>
> >>> The HOT Casual Research mumble chat will be on:
> >>>
> >>> Wednesday, March 2nd, 2016
> >>> Timezones: 15:00 UTC/18:00 AST/10:00 EST/07:00 PST/
> >>>
> >>> Duration: 1 hour
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> How to join:
> >>>
> >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mumble
> >>>
> >>> Agenda:
> >>> Review the Academic Partnership Guide
> >>> Review Research Topics
> >>> Coordinate HOT Research Scramble (collect the existing research)
> >>> Consider future recommendations
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Heather
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Heather Leson
> >>> heatherle...@gmail.com
> >>> Twitter: HeatherLeson
> >>> Blog: textontechs.com
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Martin Dittus 
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  Was just thinking it would be nice to get people closer together!
> 
>  Unfortunately that week coincides with CSCW in SF where I’ll present
> my
>  first HOT paper :)
>  http://www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/l.capra/publications/cscw2016.pdf
> (that's
>  work from last summer)
> 
>  But considering how hard scheduling always is I’ll simply try my best
> to
>  participate from there.
> 
>  m.
> 
> 
>  > On 11 Feb 2016, at 16:26, Heather Leson 
>  > wrote:
>  >
>  > HI folks,
>  >
>  > There are a few of us keen to see more research on HOT. Last year
>  > Robert Soden spearheaded a discussion at the HOT Summit. The
> results were
>  > tracked on two wiki pages:
>  >
>  > HOT Research Topics
>  > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HOT_Research_Topics
>  >
>  >
>  > HOT Academic Partnerships
>  > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HOT_Academic_Partnerships
>  >
>  > We'd like to meet others keen to talk about research. Add your times
>  > by Wednesday, February 17th and we'll firm up a time for the 1st
> week in
>  > March.
>  >
>  > Times listed in UTC/GMT
>  > http://doodle.com/poll/ct335p8d32zkp37i
>  >
>  > Call can be on mumble.
>  >
>  > Once we have a time, we'll create a shared doc space for tracking.
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  > Robert and Heather
>  >
>  >
>  > Heather Leson
>  > heatherle...@gmail.com
>  > Twitter: HeatherLeson
>  > Blog: textontechs.com
>  > ___
>  > HOT mailing list
>  > HOT@openstreetmap.org
>  > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> 
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > HOT mailing list
> > HOT@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >
>
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[HOT] How to become a validator (a suggestion)

[graham]

Dear Hi,

With the subject of validators in that last few emails, and past emails thread discussing how to know when some one can start validating or not. How much experience does one need? One may think that they are good, but other may not etc.. 



So, I thought to just suggest an idea. I am not sure what people might think about it, maybe it has already been discussed before. 
Maybe the issue has been solved already.


The idea:

I think that maybe if there was a process to become officially recognised as 
an"Validator", then it would be a "position" worth achieving, it would make it 
a challenge. For now, I do not think that there is any solid pre-requisite to be a validator?

Below I am suggesting a potential avenue to become an official validator:

1) To complete a minimum number of tiles, as proof of commitment to HOT and 
direct experience with HOT mapping (regardless of one's professional career), 
then 2) to take a short test of proficiency.

Details:

1) Can members the HOT team determine the number of tiles each user has completed? I know 
that more that one user can complete one tile, but perhaps if one user completes a high 
percentage of a tile (of all the points, line, and polygons), that would be considered a 
"complete tile" for this purpose. As for another users then reworking the tile, 
this is another discussion point.

2)The test might be to review a number of tiles from previous projects and they 
need to comment on the quality of the digitalisation and complete any reworking 
that is needed. A minimum number of tiles need to be correct, (to a certain 
standard), in order to pass the test. In each test, a random subset of tiles 
for a complete selection of tiles could be used, so that not cheating could 
occur.

Additionally, these official validators could have a symbol next to their users names. 
This way, when a mapper asks for advise regarding their mapping, the mapper would know if 
a "validator" is responding or not.

Just an idea...

Regards,

Graham

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