Re: [HOT] Thank you from MSF!

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

I am not a mapper for HOT or MSF but undertake mapping in emergencies for other 
organisations. In this case I would suspect that MSF obtains data layers from 
many sources, OSM, local agencies, on ground knowledge/organisations. The map 
examples will be made up of all these layers, not just OSM.

 

Designations such as Moto, Car and foot may have been applied to OSM data 
downloads and may well just apply in the current emergency situation and not 
reflect the general use of such areas. Likewise, boundaries names etc may just 
be local designations and not ‘approved names’.

 

It would be great to have locals with an interest in OSM and I am sure everyone 
encourages updates to the OSM basemap where possible, however it does take a 
concerted effort to onboard good mappers and keep them interested in improving 
the maps, plus easy access to the technology may be limited. Ironically, post 
disasters is often when people start to show an interest as they have first- 
hand knowledge on how the maps are used. During the emergency, the staff will 
have their hands full recording other data and may not have the time or 
resources to make updates in OSM.

 

Cheers – Phil

http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?tastrax

 

From: Ralf Bernhardt [mailto:raa...@gmx.de] 
Sent: Sunday, 7 April 2019 1:33 AM
To: John Whelan; Frans Schutz
Cc: hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [HOT] Thank you from MSF!

 

My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I learn from 
this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a mapping error is 
detected by local staff, it will most likely only be reported to their own 
mapping department. It will also only be fixed locally. We as mappers or 
validators will never learn from this process. All errors will remain in the 
OSM Database. That might be understandable in an emergency situation like now.  
But without direct feedback from map users we will never improve. We should 
also demand that more local knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank 
you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:

There is another wiki guide 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag highways 
between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to the local mappers 
to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally I'll tag as high as 
tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have been known to retag 
motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and with 
lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some problems.

Cheerio John 

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:



Hello Ralf 

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear. 
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway tagging wiki 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines 

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own 
experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a highway. 
 Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the highway, which is 
hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to decide. A big number of new 
mappers are joining us and have different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag 
a highway. I've seen taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets 
and so on. So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a 
(calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that there is a 
huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept 
the tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a 
look to each highway and decide. 
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject. 
Best regards 
Frans Schutz 
Validator 



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt: 



Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data. 

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also 
boundarys and place names. 

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would 
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be 
highway=path in OSM. 

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is 
there a reason for that or will you change them later? 

___ 
HOT mailing list 
HOT@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot 

 

 

-- 

Sent from Postbox 

 

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HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Thank you from MSF!

[Ralf Bernhardt]

My point this time is not the classification of a few roads. What I
learn from this, is that our data is processed and reviewed again. If a
mapping error is detected by local staff, it will most likely only be
reported to their own mapping department. It will also only be fixed
locally. We as mappers or validators will never learn from this process.
All errors will remain in the OSM Database. That might be understandable
in an emergency situation like now.  But without direct feedback from
map users we will never improve. We should also demand that more local
knowledge will be shared with OSM. A simple thank you is not enough.

Ralf

On 06.04.19 13:29, John Whelan wrote:

There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag
highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to
the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification. 
Occasionally I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags
alone but have been known to retag motorways between two small
settlements as unclassified.

I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it
and with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see
some problems.

Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:

Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway
tagging wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own
experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag
a highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of
the highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have
to decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have
different ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen
taggings as secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on.
So we try to tag as good as possible, but often it is a
(calculated)guess which tag is relevant. Take also in account that
there is a huge time pressure on these disaster mapping projects, so
sometimes you accept the tagging as they were made. When there is no
time pressure you can take a look to each highway and decide.
I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:

Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot




--
Sent from Postbox

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Thank you from MSF!

[John Whelan]

There is another wiki guide

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa

both get updated from time to time.  As a general rule of thumb I tag 
highways between settlements as unclassified not track, I leave it to 
the local mappers to say if it is a higher classification.  Occasionally 
I'll tag as high as tertiary. Normally I leave the tags alone but have 
been known to retag motorways between two small settlements as unclassified.


I think step one is to get something mapped.  Step two is correct it and 
with lots of new mappers with different ideas we'll always see some 
problems.


Cheerio John

Frans Schutz wrote on 2019-04-06 6:27 AM:

Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway 
tagging wiki

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own 
experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a 
highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the 
highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to 
decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different 
ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as 
secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to 
tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag 
is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure 
on these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the 
tagging as they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take 
a look to each highway and decide.

I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:

Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot




--
Sent from Postbox 

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Thank you from MSF!

[Frans Schutz]

Hello Ralf

you pinpoint to a situation which is not always clear.
First of all. we ty to keep ourselves to the East African Highway 
tagging wiki

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines

Different mappers judge different how to tag a highway. Out of my own 
experience lots of mappers (and validators) struggle with how to tag a 
highway.  Looking to the importance, the routing, and the width of the 
highway, which is hard to measure from a satellite image, we have to 
decide. A big number of new mappers are joining us and have different 
ideas (nor no idea at all) how to tag a highway. I've seen taggings as 
secondary highway as a connection to 2 hamlets and so on. So we try to 
tag as good as possible, but often it is a (calculated)guess which tag 
is relevant. Take also in account that there is a huge time pressure on 
these disaster mapping projects, so sometimes you accept the tagging as 
they were made. When there is no time pressure you can take a look to 
each highway and decide.

I hope you get an understanding how we have to deal with this subject.
Best regards
Frans Schutz
Validator



Op 5-4-2019 om 20:10 schreef Ralf Bernhardt:

Interesting when compared to the openstreetmap data.

There are many POIs I would like to see on Openstreetmap too, also
boundarys and place names.

I also noticed a different tagging scheme: Car, Moto and Foot. I would
guess that Roads not passable for a car but by foot and moto should be
highway=path in OSM.

But most of them are still tagged as unclassified or residential. Is
there a reason for that or will you change them later?

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot


--
Frans Schutz


___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot