[HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?
Hello - This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT tasks. As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I bother with this? I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times? If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every object, that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source value. So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every time? What is the level of diligence expected here? thanx - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?
It's more logical to put it on the changeset. Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself. As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller). When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which is why many people still put a source on the objects). Regards, Sander 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org: Hello - This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT tasks. As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I bother with this? I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times? If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every object, that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source value. So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every time? What is the level of diligence expected here? thanx - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:51:52 +0100 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: It's more logical to put it on the changeset. Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself. I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source? Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand. As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller). When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which is why many people still put a source on the objects). So I understand this to mean that if you are putting in an object from the imagery in front of you, you do not need to do anything else. I am not seeing that iD is attaching this anywhere but I may not be looking in the right place. But as long as the database sees it, I do not need to. Take away point, I do not need to set the source 100 times and I am good with that. cheers - ray Regards, Sander 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org: Hello - This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT tasks. As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I bother with this? I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times? If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every object, that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source value. So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every time? What is the level of diligence expected here? thanx - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?
There was another thread relating to this a short while ago, so there's more relevant discussion there. Two notes: The source tag can hold other info besides imagery, e.g. it could tell who or what agency provided some item of information. The iD imagery_used tag is more specific. But historically, source has been used for imagery too. With respect to whether the source / imagery_used tag should go on features or changeset: I raised this question at the end of the previous thread on this subject. We don't want to lose the fact that something was traced with use of a particular set of imagery if someone edits a feature. Let's take one specific case: Say that someone enters a feature (say it's one point, just to be clear) using one set of imagery, and the imagery_used tag gets assigned to the changeset. If someone later shifts that point, while using a different set of imagery, is it still possible to get back to the original changeset from the modified point? -- Pat On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:51:52 +0100 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: It's more logical to put it on the changeset. Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself. I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source? Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand. As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller). When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which is why many people still put a source on the objects). So I understand this to mean that if you are putting in an object from the imagery in front of you, you do not need to do anything else. I am not seeing that iD is attaching this anywhere but I may not be looking in the right place. But as long as the database sees it, I do not need to. Take away point, I do not need to set the source 100 times and I am good with that. cheers - ray Regards, Sander 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org: Hello - This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT tasks. As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I bother with this? I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times? If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every object, that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source value. So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every time? What is the level of diligence expected here? thanx - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?
To take this slightly further in JOSM when you upload it takes the title of the imagery so where I'm working its DigitalGlobe’s WorldView-2 however I have noticed some mapping being done that is consistently out compared to the DigitalGlobe imagery but matches up exactly with the available Bing imagery. Some Satellite imagery is more accurate than others, Kevin Bullock http://stateofthemap.us/session/mapping-the-world-in-raster/ 15 mins in for 90 seconds covers it nicely. Perhaps some automated tool could check the change sets for HOT uploading to just verify the most accurate image is being used and suggest the most accurate source back to the mapper if it isn't. Thanks John On 3 November 2014 14:01, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:51:52 +0100 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: It's more logical to put it on the changeset. Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself. I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source? Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand. As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller). When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which is why many people still put a source on the objects). So I understand this to mean that if you are putting in an object from the imagery in front of you, you do not need to do anything else. I am not seeing that iD is attaching this anywhere but I may not be looking in the right place. But as long as the database sees it, I do not need to. Take away point, I do not need to set the source 100 times and I am good with that. cheers - ray Regards, Sander 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org: Hello - This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT tasks. As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I bother with this? I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times? If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every object, that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source value. So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every time? What is the level of diligence expected here? thanx - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?
On 11/3/2014 2:01 PM, Ray Kiddy wrote: I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source? Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand. This can be done for the most part with tags that look like this for example: source=Bing source:alt_name=GNS source:name=survey etc If you want to list a specific source for some bit of the object just use source:x=value format. As you mention, this is more on objects than changesets, but it could apply to changesets if you wanted to use it that way and it was accurate. Blake ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?
Hi, Pat, Looking at OSM using the iD editor, when I type in “image” the only relevant tags that pop up are “image”, “source:imagery”, and “source_type_imagery”; “imagery_used” is not an option, I have to type it in explicitly. Does this mean it’s not a very commonly used tag (?). It would be much better if this were automatic, in any case. Even with the easy-to-use Source button present, it’s a bit of a bother; it would be even more so if this type has to be typed or menued in every time. Theoretically one could switch background imagery even in the middle of an edit, which might warrant multiple tags, but that would probably be rare. — Andy On Nov 3, 2014, at 6:21 PM, Pat Tressel ptres...@myuw.netmailto:ptres...@myuw.net wrote: There was another thread relating to this a short while ago, so there's more relevant discussion there. Two notes: The source tag can hold other info besides imagery, e.g. it could tell who or what agency provided some item of information. The iD imagery_used tag is more specific. But historically, source has been used for imagery too. With respect to whether the source / imagery_used tag should go on features or changeset: I raised this question at the end of the previous thread on this subject. We don't want to lose the fact that something was traced with use of a particular set of imagery if someone edits a feature. Let's take one specific case: Say that someone enters a feature (say it's one point, just to be clear) using one set of imagery, and the imagery_used tag gets assigned to the changeset. If someone later shifts that point, while using a different set of imagery, is it still possible to get back to the original changeset from the modified point? -- Pat On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.orgmailto:r...@ganymede.org wrote: On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:51:52 +0100 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.commailto:sander...@gmail.com wrote: It's more logical to put it on the changeset. Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself. I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source? Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand. As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller). When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which is why many people still put a source on the objects). So I understand this to mean that if you are putting in an object from the imagery in front of you, you do not need to do anything else. I am not seeing that iD is attaching this anywhere but I may not be looking in the right place. But as long as the database sees it, I do not need to. Take away point, I do not need to set the source 100 times and I am good with that. cheers - ray Regards, Sander 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.orgmailto:r...@ganymede.org: Hello - This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT tasks. As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I bother with this? I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times? If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every object, that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source value. So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every time? What is the level of diligence expected here? thanx - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.orgmailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.orgmailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.orgmailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing
