[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
On Tue 28-Oct-2008 at 15:48 +0100, Thomas Steiner wrote: > >> stitching a panorama properlyis not such a simple task. for those >> looking for the simple task, there are ... > >perhaps I missed it, but did he say that it is simple? >Usability is just "making it more intuitive", not simplifying (which >is indeed impossible), no? >Here he gave some ideas/critical points. These usability notes are all valid, and everyone recognises hugin really needs improvement - We need developer help to work on this alongside all the other stuff that needs work. The manual isn't the answer to all usability problems, but when we didn't have a complete manual this was the biggest usability problem of all. -- Bruno --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
> stitching a panorama properlyis not such a simple task. for those > looking for the simple task, there are ... perhaps I missed it, but did he say that it is simple? Usability is just "making it more intuitive", not simplifying (which is indeed impossible), no? Here he gave some ideas/critical points. thomas --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
paolobenve wrote: > Pretending that the newby read all the docs before using hugin isn't > correct. This way nobody will be using it. this is true for most people and most software. another true principle is garbage in, garbage out. If people don't read the docs, they won't know nor understand parallax (unless they have exceptional observation skills and have gone throug trial and error), their panoramas will look crappy and they will still think the software is at fault, not them / their process. people don't read the docs before using a hammer, and it sort of works because it is such a simple task to hit a nail. Then sometimes the nail hits into a water pipe or an electricity line. stitching a panorama properlyis not such a simple task. for those looking for the simple task, there are all of those crappy softwares delivered on the CDs that come with the cameras and that amount to sticking photos into a mosaic with scotch tape - no perspective correction, no vignetting correction, no color correction. For the rest of us there is hugin, and we can work to make it easier to interact with, but we can't work around lack of knowledge of the user. Yuv --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
paolobenve wrote: > I agree perfectly with those saying that hugin shuld be easy to use. Not a radical view :-) BugBear --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
I agree perfectly with those saying that hugin shuld be easy to use. Pretending that the newby read all the docs before using hugin isn't correct. This way nobody will be using it. Since there are propietary programs allowing the newby to produce a panorama intuitively, and hugin isn't intuitive, users will keep using propietary (delivered with cameras) software and not hugin. The program itself must be enough simple and autoexplicative so that anyone could get simple results without reading documentation. The docs should be used in order to get something better than simple use. Anyway, I thank all hugin developers for the great work!!! Paolo Benvenuto --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
I have to agree with 'newbee' and Dale Beams. Hugin is a great program, and I'm quite used to programs which aren't that user friendly, so for me, it's no problem to use it. However, from a usability perspective, certain things definitely should be changed. I think any program which is intended to be used by a large group of people (like Hugin) should be as intuitive as possible. The comments 'newbee' has given, are really worth investigating. In fact, I think he/she tackles the problem quite well. Unfortunately I don't have the time nor the skills (in terms of C++) at the moment (yet) to implement it, but it might really help putting Hugin on the map a lot better. Maybe it doesn't have the highest priority, but in the end, it should be dealt with anyway, so I think we should really welcome such helpful comments on how the Hugin process works. Best, Bart --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
Hello, "Newbie" is a good friend who has an interest to see how making panoramic images works. We had an hour in the evening, and so I just wanted to show the workflow with one hands-on example. Regarding hugin, there was a consensus that a feature freeze is needed to get 0.7.0 released without more delays. Aspects of GUI and usability have been discussed before, as were further features, but deliberately put on hold in the last few months. Now that 0.7.0 is out, one may resume there. Of course implementation of SOC 2008 work is already underway, so these things may come first. But I expect usability and GUI discussions to start again. And as I consider myself a reasonably expert hugin user, it is interesting to observe someone with no prior experience and using a completely fresh installation. Cheers Klaus --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
I agree with "newbie" or commonly known as "usablity" testing. Suse had made great inroads in this area with some strong usablity testing procedures. Suse even went so far as to video tape all types of users on Linux to understand user expectations. Gimp's crop window iirc, was a result of some "usablity" adjustments, and is by far one of the best "cropping" tools out there. I often find programmers or "experts" looking in disdain on users sometimes. It is the "users that make or break a program in the software world sometimes. MS did not make it as far as they did simply on advertising. They used to make and still work toward making an effort to solve usability issues. I was glad to see this post, and disheartened to see RTFM posts. Usability suggestions don't hurt they help, and I hate to hear "RTFM" all the time. I myself have considered usability suggestions but have been at the wrath of a group of programmers or experts on more than one occasion that I've quit giving usability suggestions. Recently I was in some of the local large mart stores and noticed how affordable software has become. When faced with "free" OSS and a program that is 35.00 it becomes real clear after using a OSS program with usability issues where one's time and money is better spent. IMHO, OSS isn't loosing out because of patent wars, or FUD, or any other conspiracy. In the end it looses out because of usability issues that programmers don't care to fix, even though sometimes those changes are very simple. I enjoy Hugin, and it is my primary photo stitching application. I'll continue to use it as I do believe that by doing so I'm promoting OSS in my area and hopefully usability suggestions by members will improve the application. > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:37:20 -0700 > Subject: [hugin-ptx] newbie introduction - hugin usability > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com > > > Hello, > > Yesterday evening: newbie introduction to hugin and panorama > stitching. Some remarks on usabililty while watching and tutoring a > first three-image stitch. > > Downloading from hugin.sf.net works ok. Installing hugin on XP with > the exe file works ok, but then there are suddenly lots of aliases on > the desktop. Newbie is somewhat confused. > > Open Images tab. Drag and drop images into white area. Tell newbie to > click on an image name to ascertain that image is loaded indeed. > Methinks that the last image(s) dropped into the window could be > highlighted by default and displayed in the preview. > > Then skipping a couple of tabs going to Control Points. Concept is > easily explained to newbie. Explicit hint needed to set right image to > number 1, as current default is to display image 0 twice. Newbie > roughly clicks on the image, zoom in happens and the desired spot is > obscured by the magnified square. Also newbie tries to click into that > square to adjust positioning. Need to tell to manipulate the faintly > visible crosshair. Mesays that the doughnuts would have been more > intuitive, but thinking about a click and hold (real magifying glass > pops up), drag (fine positioning), release (place CP) workflow. > > Usually only one magified square is visible, hence no hint whether > placement was ok. Methinks two squares should be visible, one may > disappear when cursor is moved. > > Optimising is fine for a start. But need to point out the drop-down > menu with the different optimisation strategies. Maybe that could be > done less hidden. Mesays that I usually optimise several times, adding > more parameters at each step. > > Preview is accessible from the menu. The icons are not yet intuitive > to the newbie. The preview window comes up rather small at the start, > of course a once-only problem. Irritating is also pressing the align > buttons and nothing happens. Of course the default is that the > automatic preview redrawing is switched of by default. If that new > fast preview were not in the pipeline, methinks change would be > needed. > > One CP was placed badly, numbered 8 in the F3 window. Where is number > 8 in the CP tab? There it is numbered 3. > > The F3 control points window is much too small at the start. > Maximising, then much too large. Awkwardly floating at the top. > Methinks F3 should toggle it. If you want to have it in front, press > F3 twice. > > Changing back from the preview window to the main window is not > smooth. Recommendation to newbie was to close the preview window. > > Exposure tab works ok. Popup window is slighly irritating. > > Mecomments on Optimisation and Exposure: maybe we should be doing away > with the popup windows (displaying the values in the main window), and > if one does not like the latest optimisation result, rely on ^Z or > "undo" in the menu for the step back. > > Vertical control points not yet introduced to newbie. > > Slider control and clicking in preview window briefl
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
On 27 Oct, 10:12, dishio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Oct 27, 10:37 am, Klaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hello, > > Regarding hugin, > > newbie needs an initial tutorial to guide him through the workflow. > > Did newbie go to hugin home > page?http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/index.shtml Newbie did not read any documentation yet, but with me looking over his shoulder was guided on how to proceed. Some programmes are self-explaining, and without RTFM one can explore the capabilities in looking at menu bars, click into windows etc. and observe what happens. Maybe one can nudge hugin further into that direction. Cheers Klaus --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: newbie introduction - hugin usability
On Oct 27, 10:37 am, Klaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > Regarding hugin, > newbie needs an initial tutorial to guide him through the workflow. Did newbie go to hugin home page? http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/index.shtml --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
