Re: usability (was Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Oups, I've added two strings!)
On Thu 08-Oct-2009 at 14:00 -0700, Bart van Andel wrote: > >Why learn that to create a selection you *must* from the top left >instead of allowing the other options too? What would you consider >easier or more user friendly? I know what I'd prefer. Having played with it, the original bug is fixed - dragging the edges together results in a very thin valid crop rather than a inverted invalid crop. I still say that 'the user' doesn't care which edge is which and that dragging the top edge below the bottom edge should just make it the new bottom edge. But the new behaviour is self-explanatory enough and won't result in anyone screaming at the computer. I couldn't reproduce the problem Joachim sees, dragging the crop back to the edge of the canvas seems to be ok. -- Bruno --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: usability (was Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Oups, I've added two strings!)
Bart van Andel wrote: > Then tell me where you read that selecting a rectangle should *always* > be done starting from the top left and dragging down right. have you tried to use the crop tool? do you have a clue what you're talking about? this is not GIMP or Photoshop. The use case is completely different. This one starts from an existing rectangle, not from a random point inside the image. > You're > putting it as if the way you're telling it's supposed to work is the > only way it should ever work, no, I'm putting it as if I am annoyed at you telling me what I should do. If you think you can do better, make your hands dirty and provide a patch. so far all I have seen from you is blah blah and never materialized promises. your website mock up is still there, going stale. Yuv (very much annoyed) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: usability (was Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Oups, I've added two strings!)
Then tell me where you read that selecting a rectangle should *always* be done starting from the top left and dragging down right. You're putting it as if the way you're telling it's supposed to work is the only way it should ever work, but all programs I'm using or have been using (including but not limited to GIMP, Inkscape, MS Paint, Paint.NET, Photoshop, several UML tools etc etc) allow selecting a rectangle starting from *any* of the 4 corners. And modifying this rectangle usually allows flipping the corners too. I believe this is enough empirical proof to show that I'm not as wrong as you'd like me to be. It's intuitive. Okay I might be slightly wrong on the usability bit. Of course research has been done to find out what works for the *average* user. Expert users are generally not average users, agreed. But this also proves my point (indirectly) that there is not universal truth about usability, except maybe when you define it as usable to the average user. Always watch out when applying statistics. I dare to say that there are relatively a lot of "expert users" among the Hugin user base, so this group should not be denied. On 8 okt, 21:51, Yuval Levy wrote: > Bart van Andel wrote: > > usability is not universal: different users like > > different approaches. > > ever visited a usability lab? usability is hard facts and has nothing to > do with likes or dislikes. [...] > the goals are: > - tangible improvements to the user interaction: shorter times, fewer > clicks, faster and easier access to functionality Being able to select from any corner will improve this. Imagine selecting a corner which is not the top left corner, dragging into the desired direction expecting to see a rectangle appear and instead getting nothing. I would think this must be a bug, not a feature... > - easier learning curve: an environment that keeps the user within > boundaries that make him feel safe while enabling all the functionalities. Why learn that to create a selection you *must* from the top left instead of allowing the other options too? What would you consider easier or more user friendly? I know what I'd prefer. > sometimes there are trade-offs - e.g. some boundaries may make the > newbie user feel comfortable but are a limiting factor to the expert > user; and such trade-offs warrant a preference. > > this is not the case here. I see no advantage to the flipping other than > a show off another useless feature. It slows down the newbie without > offering any tangible improvement to the expert user. You see no advantage. I *do* see advantage. You say it's a useless feature. I say it isn't. You say it slows down the newbie. I say it won't. Again, consider my "empirical proof" above. To my, and with my I guess lots of other people, it's pretty expected behaviour. I would very much like this feature. Disabling it using a preference is pretty easy, I'd think (pretty much a simple if statement). Note that this applies to the visual crop selection alteration only (dragging using the mouse). Crop values entered as numbers should not work like this of course, in this case users should just be warned about incorrect values. > show me a tangible improvement and we can *talk* of a preference. What more do you want me to write down here? I think I've typed my point more than often enough. I'd be happy to read what other users on this list think. -- Bart --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
usability (was Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Oups, I've added two strings!)
Bart van Andel wrote: > usability is not universal: different users like > different approaches. ever visited a usability lab? usability is hard facts and has nothing to do with likes or dislikes. user interaction is analyzed and dissected in detail. and the resulting rules, while depending on the context, are nearly universal. for example times are measured, in millisecond, that it takes to an average user (obtained through broad enough sampling) to understand the interface, to activate the control, to complete a task. success and failure to complete a task are measured and justified. the learning curve (i.e. from newbie to expert) is visualized. what it takes to be an expert is defined; and usually it is leveled down to increase the comfort of the average user. the goals are: - tangible improvements to the user interaction: shorter times, fewer clicks, faster and easier access to functionality - easier learning curve: an environment that keeps the user within boundaries that make him feel safe while enabling all the functionalities. sometimes there are trade-offs - e.g. some boundaries may make the newbie user feel comfortable but are a limiting factor to the expert user; and such trade-offs warrant a preference. this is not the case here. I see no advantage to the flipping other than a show off another useless feature. It slows down the newbie without offering any tangible improvement to the expert user. show me a tangible improvement and we can *talk* of a preference. Yuv --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
