Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] How Many XOs?
On Mar 2, 2011, at 10:58 AM, Walter Bender wrote: FWIW, we've been in discussion about Sugar as part of the offering. How has that idea been received? Can you clarify -- offered on top of Windows or as an additional window manager on the Linux side? On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: Am 02.03.2011 06:34, schrieb John Watlington: On Mar 1, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: Am 01.03.2011 13:36, schrieb Christoph Derndorfer: Am 28.02.2011 22:59, schrieb John Watlington: On Feb 23, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: I'm still absolutely clueless about the total figures but what I do know is that Argentina's Conectar Igualdad program (http://www.conectarigualdad.gob.ar/) will distribute 3 million Classmate PCs in part of its public secondary school system by the end of 2012. By late December approximately half a million of them had supposedly been distributed. According to the web site at the URL provided above, none have been delivered to children as of Feb. 28. When I was in Buenos Aires in mid-December for a 3-day workshop organized by the Argentinian MoE I also met my former Argentinian host brother and his cousin who had received their Classmate PCs in late November. So I know that at least two of them have actually been distributed (and no, this time not based on dubious information from Kigali;-) We continue to hear that Classmates are being deployed, but nobody can provide concrete information about where and how many. I'll get in touch with some people in Buenos Aires to try and figure out what the current figure there is. Okay, just found http://www.conectarigualdad.gob.ar/sobre-el-programa/evaluacion-y-seguimiento/informe-de-avance-de-entregas/ which supposedly provides the number of distributed netbooks and is updated on a weekly basis. The count as of today is 358,227. Impressive number. What software are they running ? It's dual-boot with Windows and Linux. According to a manual (www.conectarigualdad.gob.ar/wp-content/themes/conectar_igualdad/pdf/Manual_alumnos.pdf) on the Conectar Igualdad Web site for Linux they're using the Debian-based (IIRC) OS from http://www.pixartargentina.com.ar/ however one of the project leads just told me that it's Ubuntu so they might have changed their mind since the manual was written. On the Windows side there's also slightly confusing information with again the manual making a reference to Windows XP whereas http://www.conectarigualdad.gob.ar/la-netbook/descripcion-de-los-equipos/tecnologia/tecnologia/ talks about Windows 7 Professional. But again I've asked that project lead for a clarification and will report back once I know more. Hope that helps. Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Link for Maple Syrup?
Not sure if it is the latest rev: http://open1to1.msln.net/MapleSugar/ On Nov 1, 2010, at 1:28 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: Hi All, I have a copy of Maine 1 to 1's Maple Syrup that I run in a Virtual Box on my MacBook. I need to share the link on the olpc-socal list, but Google isn't very helpful this morning. Can someone send me the link for the download? TIA Caryl ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] "Mesh" Dreams = OLSR
Mike, Thank you for the information! To be clear, from what I understand from our discussions in the past you're topology looks like AP(802.11A + OLSRD) - AP (802.11B/G) - XO You have several AP(802.11A + OLSRD) acting as your backbone and they drop down to standard AP (802.11B/G) for connection to the XOs. Please let me know if this is correct. Out of curiosity: have you considered extending your OLSR network to the AP (802.11B/G)'s and installing the OLRSd binary on your XOs so the OLSR network can be extended beyond the school? Thanks, Reuben On Sep 2, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Mike Dawson wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry for my late reply to this. Actually we use OLSR in Afghanistan > to do our school networking like so: > > 1. An OLSR router (running openwrt Freifunk ; see freifunk.net ) > connects to the other routers in the school - that forms the backbone > on one network (e.g. channel 6) > > 2. A vanilla OpenWRT router actually connects to the XOs in the class. > We reduce the transmit power on that and run it on a different > channel (e.g. 1 or 11) > > The plus side is that you get a pure wireless system that does not > need network cabling / does not have cables getting killed by the > environment. The down side is you use more routers. I think > financially the costs are pretty similar. Also you can now use > 802.11n to get good speeds on the backbone. > > Seems to scale pretty nicely - we have 500 XOs in most schools. Note > though by design we are not using the collaboration on the school > server but rather just through the AP - teachers are not that enthused > by the prospect of kids being able to chat with anyone anytime. > > This has practically made doing the deployment in the field a bit > easier - though the firmware is not always perfect and not always > working out of the box with all hardware options. > > Regards, > > -Mike > > > > On 25/08/2010, Martin Langhoff wrote: >> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron >> wrote: >>> Where Mesh != 802.11s but rather an adhoc, self healing, self >>> organizing routable network. >> >> Cerebro gave a great working demo of what you describe. Don't know >> how >> they compare. >> >> I think it is perfectly feasible to achieve what you want... >> >> - to do it seamlessly and with polish will take a ton of work >> >> - very few users will actually benefit because the "under a tree" >> scenario covers IMHO most of our interesting use cases. >> >> People do talk about having a mesh that covers their whole town, and >> it's great dream but not achievable with our current constraints >> >> - town-wide meshes are made of stationary nodes >> >> - the "mesh" approaches we're discussing burn CPU / battery... >> >> - perennially power-starved users will focus on use, not on >> maintaining the communal mesh up >> >>> Imagine a world where Sugar on a Stick machines can communicate on >>> the >>> same network as an XO laptop >> >> We have that now with ad-hoc and infra. Limited but we have it. >> >>> A world where mesh capabilities are >>> hardware agnostic allowing anyone to bring up a mesh network by >>> booting a live cd. >> >> Mesh is pixie dust for most people. Your 'imagine' lines will make >> the >> imagine things that cannot be made to work _in the way people >> imagine_. Some meshy things can be made to work in a lab. Others just >> involve tradeoffs no sane user would take on... >> >> We've had bazillion threads about this, because mesh stokes passion. >> Problem is... even if you had the magical code right now working >> seamlessly... the cost/benefit ratio isn't good. >> >> cheers, >> >> >> >> m >> -- >> martin.langh...@gmail.com >> mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect >> - ask interesting questions >> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first >> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> de...@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] "Mesh" Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard A. Smith wrote: > The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability > on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is > there any information available on how these networks perform when > there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent > rooms? Here is a link to a paper that actually tested in a physical 49 node lab with various configurations: http://dev.laptop.org/~reuben/Elsevier2008_OLSR_compare.pdf This differs from most other papers that I have read that use theoretical simulations. Reuben ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] "Mesh" Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Richard A. Smith wrote: > I'm not talking about comparison to our previous mesh. Thanks keeping me on track. > I'm talking about comparison to an AP. Overall we currently don't > have much need for "mesh" as most of our scenarios are a dense cloud > of children in the same space trying to network with each other. Fo deployments that have funding for APs there is not much need for "mesh." I would approximate that roughly 66% of our user base are in deployments that do not have funding for APs. > > The network-without-infra feature of "mesh" is certainly useful in > scenarios were you want to provide access over a wider area. Its a > very important feature of mesh but its just not the feature we need > on the ground ATM. Yet, this is a "feature," we continue to sell and a feature often requested. > However, if the same mesh smartness also gets density without using > AP's then that's a big win. Agreed! Reuben ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] "Mesh" Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard A. Smith wrote: > On 08/24/2010 10:13 AM, Reuben K. Caron wrote: > > > Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our > closed > > source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose > > network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, > > Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. > > The largest of our mesh problems did not have to do with scalability > on sheer number of nodes but rather scalability in density. Is > there any information available on how these networks perform when > there are 50 - 100 of them next all in the same room or in adjacent > rooms? > > In those scenarios we run into RF density issues even when using APs. From what I understand, OLSR has a better mechanism for maintaining the "mesh information." If you recall any change in mesh was previously broadcasted to all listeners. OLSR is configurable. For instance, information would only be broadcasted to two levels of one devices immediate neighbor not the whole mesh cloud. Another issue we had was maintaining mesh information in a limited memory space on the WLAN module; OLSR would now process that information. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] "Mesh" Dreams = OLSR
On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Chris Ball wrote: The fact that a custom mesh algorithm would have to run on the CPU -- prohibiting any kind of idle-suspend -- makes it a non-starter for an XO deployment in my eyes. Did you have any thoughts on this? Hi Chris, Great point. Thank you for bringing this up. I have given this some thought; though I'm curious to know if this is your only objection to the suggestion? I find it interesting that what you consider a non- starter, I consider a feature. I have often considered it a bit presumptuous for us to deplete one child's precious power resources to maintain the mesh network for other children. We have created a model where in essence one household is funding access to the Internet in another household through power costs. My thoughts are: we don't do this. If the XO wants to go into idle-suspend let it. The connecting XO will have to find another path or lose access to the Internet. Either way it is a better solution then what we have now. If children group together and knowingly disable idle-suspend so they can maintain a mesh network for their neighbors then that is fine and a great example of building community but doing so as a mandatory implementation IMHO and with all due respect is questionable. Some things I'd like to point out. -8.2.1 has idle-suspend disabled by default and we are considering disabling by default idle-suspend for new XO - 1 builds. In these cases OLSR would be performing fine. -The switch in WLAN chip from XO 1.0 to 1.5 forces us to re-think how we do connectivity. -The thin-firmware being built for XO 1.5 has the same CPU-prohibiting idle-suspend limitation and *does not* include a user base and support community of thousands of users and active development. Yet it relies on one closed source firmware developed by one firm based on the same "mesh" technology developed 3 years ago. It also lacks my hardware agnostic points. -On the XO 1.5 builds where idle-suspend is working (CONGRATULATIONS TEAM), I'd recommend letting it idle-suspend. Yes, it will create route-flapping but in the school scenarios there should be enough paths to maintain connectivity and in the household environment any bit more of connectivity is better then none. It also leaves children and families the ability to knowingly disable-idle suspend and provide a resource to their neighbors. Thank you for your thoughts. Reuben ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] "Mesh" Dreams = OLSR
Where Mesh != 802.11s but rather an adhoc, self healing, self organizing routable network. Imagine a world where Sugar on a Stick machines can communicate on the same network as an XO laptop. A world where mesh capabilities are hardware agnostic allowing anyone to bring up a mesh network by booting a live cd. Imagine a school full of XOs where some are connected to Adhoc Channel 1, some to Channel 6, and some to Channel 11. Now think of an XO that has two USB Wireless Adapters each connected respectively to one of those channels. This central XO also has a third USB ethernet dongle or a 3G wireless modem attached to it. Consider how this simple setup could provide Internet to everyone in the school. Consider the ability to actually create "Mesh Portal Points," that allow one connection to provide an Internet connection to many hops down the line. Consider the benefits of using open source software versus our closed source firmware and partnering with communities like Freifunk whose network is ~ 800 node, guifi.net is almost 10k nodes in Barcelona, Athens Wireless is 5k nodes. These things are all almost immediately possible by using OLSRd software. Over the past few months, I have tested and built small networks around my neighborhood to consider the feasibility of such software. Now I realize there is a difference between small and large networks but I think it is something we should consider. As I have said, please *consider * all of these things with a fresh perspective and try to forget about the prior mesh battles. Let's think of solutions that will actually make this work. Some things to consider from Aaron Kaplan, a member of the OLSR community, cc'd here: "How to scale networks? -The key is to have multiple channels, smart channel selection/ assignment, automatic txpower control and low interference between nodes! -In a sense, it is funny but true: the quieter the devices become, the better everybody can "hear" his mesh partner. -Summary: layer 2 is king for scalability , only then do you need to look at layer 3 optimizations (and with OLSR.org we already took care of that part" I hope that we can come together to re-group and re-think how we OLPC and SugarLabs do connectivity and utilize the open opportunities available to create such solutions. Regards, Reuben ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Redesigning: Library, Read, Get-Books, and Content bundles
There has been a lot of great progress with the Read and Get-Books (IA) activities. However, we have neglected to think about how we can better fit all of these pieces together. For instance, consider deployments that would like to install content bundles. They package these files into .xol packages and these packages get installed into the "Library," which is contained on the left hand side of the Browse activity. Yes, you read that correctly..."the BROWSE activity," an activity intended for online exploration is used to view offline content. Every deployment that I have shown this to has found it very unintuitive. Consider another example: You want to use Get-Books to get a new book. So you open Get-Books search for a book and download the book. But where did it go? I guess one could assume (correctly) that it went to the journal. So you close Get-Books. Go to the Journal. Find the book you downloaded. Open the book (in Read.) IMHO, a series of needless steps. So what if we created a "Library Activity" The activity would: -Open a book from within the activity -Highlight and annotate books -List all of the books you have downloaded -Allow you to search and download additional books from Feed Books, Internet Archive, the XS, etc.. -List the resources in /home/olpc/Library (so this can be removed from Browse) -Allow one to synchronously or asynchronously share a book to their Neighborhood so anyone can download and read it. I have filed a bug here if anyone would like to follow it: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2110 I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Regards, Reuben ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
