Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Mathematics please, over Maths (which has regional differences, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_(disambiguation) ). Thanks! --Fred On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:34 AM, James Simmons wrote: ... > Gary C Martin wrote: > > Not too much input from existing teachers unfortunately back then, but the > list I was keeping track of ended up at something like the below: > > Art > Communication > Games > Geography > Literacy > Maths > Music > Programming > Science > Utilities > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Hi James, On 11 Jun 2009, at 15:34, James Simmons wrote: > Gary, > > Replace "Communication" and "Literacy" with "Writing" and "Reading" > and you'd have a list I'd vote for. Remember that Activities can go > into up to three Categories, so Categories don't have to be so broad > that every Activity has only one. Thanks for the feedback. FWIW, "Literacy" was meant to be for "Writing" and "Reading" (we started with the two as separate tags but Activities seems to overlap so much "Literacy" would cover both). And "Communication" was to try and cover Activities like Chat, Video Chat, IRC, and any other email/messaging/comms type Activities. Without "Communication", these would likely end up at "Utilities". Regards, --Gary > If you look at Firefox Add-ons: > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/ > > The latest version of the software supports "Collections" which is a > perfect place to put stuff like "Sucrose", "Fructose", and the > like. It also shows numbers like I wanted, both by Category and at > the top they have "1,455,889,902 add-ons downloaded, 162,086,241 add- > ons in use". Our numbers will be less impressive, of course. > > James Simmons > > Gary C Martin wrote: >> >> Not too much input from existing teachers unfortunately back then, >> but the list I was keeping track of ended up at something like the >> below: >> >> Art >> Communication >> Games >> Geography >> Literacy >> Maths >> Music >> Programming >> Science >> Utilities >> >> How does this seem to folks, anything missing or could be better >> named? Was trying to keep the list reasonably short and non- >> technical. >> >> Regards, >> --Gary ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Over 50 responses on this thread :D But we are advancing I think :-) Sean On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Martin Dengler wrote: > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 02:47:45PM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 03:10:49PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: >> > I actually don't think it's that hard to set a list[...] >> >> 27 messages in this thread: >> http://n2.nabble.com/G1G1v2-Activities-td1096680.html > > 20 comments on this ticket: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6598 > > Martin > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Gary, Replace "Communication" and "Literacy" with "Writing" and "Reading" and you'd have a list I'd vote for. Remember that Activities can go into up to three Categories, so Categories don't have to be so broad that every Activity has only one. If you look at Firefox Add-ons: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/ The latest version of the software supports "Collections" which is a perfect place to put stuff like "Sucrose", "Fructose", and the like. It also shows numbers like I wanted, both by Category and at the top they have "*1,455,889,902* add-ons downloaded, *162,086,241* add-ons in use". Our numbers will be less impressive, of course. James Simmons Gary C Martin wrote: Not too much input from existing teachers unfortunately back then, but the list I was keeping track of ended up at something like the below: Art Communication Games Geography Literacy Maths Music Programming Science Utilities How does this seem to folks, anything missing or could be better named? Was trying to keep the list reasonably short and non-technical. Regards, --Gary ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 16:22, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 11 Jun 2009, at 14:10, Sean DALY wrote: > >> Bert - many thanks, I understand much better now. >> >> We're expecting a traffic peaks at the end of the month with our media >> push, that's why this work on clarity/simplicity is important. >> >> I'm afraid "Fructose" as a left-hand category on ASLO is obscure, it >> really should be "base" or "core" or "base install", this last I like >> best because it's very clear. Note: a search for "Fructose" in ASLO >> returns no results! >> >> I actually don't think it's that hard to set a list; it's really just >> a Get Started list which covers online/offline, younger/older >> Learners, and super-helpful to have even if off-ring (Terminal...). >> >> I agree some deployments will want to zap some Activities, but as long >> as it's clear that there's no technical barrier to doing so we're >> fine. >> >> The list of 13 Fructose Activities at >> http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/ >> does not match the list of 11 Fructose Activities on ASLO >> (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/browse/type:1/cat:112?sort=name >> ). >> I imagine Image is off the bus (replaced by Image Viewer), but is the >> omission of Write intentional? I couldn't find it on ASLO at all :-( >> >> (N.B. Write is always the first Activity I choose to demonstrate >> classroom collaboration; people understand collaboration instantly >> when each of two machines can edit the same document live. My kids' >> nanny who is in her early 60s and does not use computers understood >> right away the usefulness of XOs in a classroom when she saw that, she >> got all excited and started asking me questions!) >> >> So I think the ASLO Fructose list, plus Write, can certainly be >> qualified as 12 "base install" Activities: >> >> Browse >> Calculate >> Chat >> Etoys >> ImageViewer >> Jukebox >> Log >> Pippy >> Read >> Terminal >> TurtleArt >> Write >> >> However I think it would be judicious to add Help to this list. Help >> is very reassuring during discovery of the totally unfamiliar >> interface. I'm aware there are issues right now building a new Help >> from the FLOSS Manuals source, but I believe Help aids teachers and >> parents significantly with the Sugar GUI learning curve. > > Can I raise "Populate Journal with a handful of useful/exemplary > items" trac ticket: > > http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/840 > > And suggest that we start using the Journal as a journal, rather than > trying to create monoliths. Why not just take the help content break > it into it's sections/chapters and add each as a PDF** entry with a > nice title, description, and set of tags. That way anyone can go into > Journal and type, "help turtle" and will be given the sections about > turtle art. > > ** I'm just choosing PDF as it's support is mature in the current > Sugar platform. Splitting up the help content will improve accuracy of > search and avoid the memory issues of opening single large documents. > >> Are there any other candidates today for the Fructose list we should >> consider? Not to open a can of worms - adjusting the pantheon is much >> less urgent than the discoverability/usability issues - but a review >> before each SoaS version seems judicious to me, especially since a >> choice needs to be made about which Activities are in the ring and >> which are off. I would suggest: > > FWIW: As an Activity author I've long resisted any of my stuff going > into Fructose. The whole point of Activities is that they are > divisible from the base distribution and can be developed out of sync > from the core Sugar platform. The harder you try to glue them all > together as one great lump, the more brittle the whole development and > release process is going to get. IMO, the only reason for an activity to be part of Fructose is to be tied closely to the release cycle. For most activities this will be a bad thing, but for some it's good. I think it's good for activities that depend closely on some part of the platform, so that when the platform updates, say, xulrunner or evince, the activity for this release cycle won't work in the past releases and past versions won't work in the last release cycle. Using the same release cycle as the platform makes things much easier. Also might benefit translators, but Sayamindu would be able to confirm this. Regards, Tomeu > For me, the only reason for Fructose is for those Activities > considered an essential part of the Sugar platform, i.e without Browse > it's going to be tough to install other Activities, without Read you > won't be able to read documentation. Most Activities ended up in > Fructose because their developers were also 'core' developers (those > also working on the core Sugar platform), and they usually needed > specific Activities to actually test and exercise the various features > they were working on and integrating in Sugar. > > Fructose is a technical term used by developers, it
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On 11 Jun 2009, at 14:10, Sean DALY wrote: > Bert - many thanks, I understand much better now. > > We're expecting a traffic peaks at the end of the month with our media > push, that's why this work on clarity/simplicity is important. > > I'm afraid "Fructose" as a left-hand category on ASLO is obscure, it > really should be "base" or "core" or "base install", this last I like > best because it's very clear. Note: a search for "Fructose" in ASLO > returns no results! > > I actually don't think it's that hard to set a list; it's really just > a Get Started list which covers online/offline, younger/older > Learners, and super-helpful to have even if off-ring (Terminal...). > > I agree some deployments will want to zap some Activities, but as long > as it's clear that there's no technical barrier to doing so we're > fine. > > The list of 13 Fructose Activities at > http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/ > does not match the list of 11 Fructose Activities on ASLO > (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/browse/type:1/cat:112?sort=name > ). > I imagine Image is off the bus (replaced by Image Viewer), but is the > omission of Write intentional? I couldn't find it on ASLO at all :-( > > (N.B. Write is always the first Activity I choose to demonstrate > classroom collaboration; people understand collaboration instantly > when each of two machines can edit the same document live. My kids' > nanny who is in her early 60s and does not use computers understood > right away the usefulness of XOs in a classroom when she saw that, she > got all excited and started asking me questions!) > > So I think the ASLO Fructose list, plus Write, can certainly be > qualified as 12 "base install" Activities: > > Browse > Calculate > Chat > Etoys > ImageViewer > Jukebox > Log > Pippy > Read > Terminal > TurtleArt > Write > > However I think it would be judicious to add Help to this list. Help > is very reassuring during discovery of the totally unfamiliar > interface. I'm aware there are issues right now building a new Help > from the FLOSS Manuals source, but I believe Help aids teachers and > parents significantly with the Sugar GUI learning curve. Can I raise "Populate Journal with a handful of useful/exemplary items" trac ticket: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/840 And suggest that we start using the Journal as a journal, rather than trying to create monoliths. Why not just take the help content break it into it's sections/chapters and add each as a PDF** entry with a nice title, description, and set of tags. That way anyone can go into Journal and type, "help turtle" and will be given the sections about turtle art. ** I'm just choosing PDF as it's support is mature in the current Sugar platform. Splitting up the help content will improve accuracy of search and avoid the memory issues of opening single large documents. > Are there any other candidates today for the Fructose list we should > consider? Not to open a can of worms - adjusting the pantheon is much > less urgent than the discoverability/usability issues - but a review > before each SoaS version seems judicious to me, especially since a > choice needs to be made about which Activities are in the ring and > which are off. I would suggest: FWIW: As an Activity author I've long resisted any of my stuff going into Fructose. The whole point of Activities is that they are divisible from the base distribution and can be developed out of sync from the core Sugar platform. The harder you try to glue them all together as one great lump, the more brittle the whole development and release process is going to get. For me, the only reason for Fructose is for those Activities considered an essential part of the Sugar platform, i.e without Browse it's going to be tough to install other Activities, without Read you won't be able to read documentation. Most Activities ended up in Fructose because their developers were also 'core' developers (those also working on the core Sugar platform), and they usually needed specific Activities to actually test and exercise the various features they were working on and integrating in Sugar. Fructose is a technical term used by developers, it's also mutable as Activities fall in and out of it over time. Regards, --Gary > Clock > Help > Maze > Memorize > Moon > Read ETexts > Speak > Tux Paint > > I hesitated over: > * Record which kids adore, but which I understand is iffy due to wide > hardware variations, also teachers don't seem to like it much :-) > * the TamTams which would make the list longish... (though my > four-year-old figured out TamTam Mini in ten seconds the other day and > loved every second with it) > * GCompris Chess, since no 2-player yet. > > > Our introduction to Sugar has a page with an attractive smorgasbord of > Activities > (http://www.sugarlabs.org/index.php?template=page&page=about_activities > ), > and a link to ASLO. We listed the Activiti
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 02:47:45PM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote: > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 03:10:49PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > > I actually don't think it's that hard to set a list[...] > > 27 messages in this thread: > http://n2.nabble.com/G1G1v2-Activities-td1096680.html 20 comments on this ticket: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6598 Martin pgpAwQOSINqxd.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 03:10:49PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > I actually don't think it's that hard to set a list[...] 27 messages in this thread: http://n2.nabble.com/G1G1v2-Activities-td1096680.html > thanks > > Sean Martin pgpcpu5T2YIi0.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
David - do you have a list, or a link to same? thanks Sean On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 2:57 PM, David Van Assche wrote: > I recommend u take a look at the openSUSE offering. I took a careful look at > the activities available and packaged those that seemed useful, relatively > bug free, and fun. I think we have about 55 activities now. > > kind Regards, > David (nubae) Van Assche > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:09 PM, James Simmons > wrote: >> >> Aleksey, >> >> That will teach me to open my mouth. At the moment the only Activities >> I'm really familiar with are my own, Read, and your Library Activity which >> isn't finished (but would definitely be worthy otherwise). I'll have to add >> some more Activities to my XO and give them a try. Any suggestions on what >> might be worth a recommended status will be welcomed. >> >> Your other ideas sound good, but I still think we need some highly visible >> counts in there. As someone once said, "You gotta tell 'em to sell 'em!" >> >> Thanks, >> >> James Simmons >> >> >> Aleksey Lim wrote: >> >> You are an editor now and can do the best on >> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;) >> >> And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page >> and per category main pages. >> >> >> >> I also question the category GCompris. I understand these Activities >> are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful >> to a teacher or a student. >> >> >> fixed >> >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Bert - many thanks, I understand much better now. We're expecting a traffic peaks at the end of the month with our media push, that's why this work on clarity/simplicity is important. I'm afraid "Fructose" as a left-hand category on ASLO is obscure, it really should be "base" or "core" or "base install", this last I like best because it's very clear. Note: a search for "Fructose" in ASLO returns no results! I actually don't think it's that hard to set a list; it's really just a Get Started list which covers online/offline, younger/older Learners, and super-helpful to have even if off-ring (Terminal...). I agree some deployments will want to zap some Activities, but as long as it's clear that there's no technical barrier to doing so we're fine. The list of 13 Fructose Activities at http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/ does not match the list of 11 Fructose Activities on ASLO (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/browse/type:1/cat:112?sort=name). I imagine Image is off the bus (replaced by Image Viewer), but is the omission of Write intentional? I couldn't find it on ASLO at all :-( (N.B. Write is always the first Activity I choose to demonstrate classroom collaboration; people understand collaboration instantly when each of two machines can edit the same document live. My kids' nanny who is in her early 60s and does not use computers understood right away the usefulness of XOs in a classroom when she saw that, she got all excited and started asking me questions!) So I think the ASLO Fructose list, plus Write, can certainly be qualified as 12 "base install" Activities: Browse Calculate Chat Etoys ImageViewer Jukebox Log Pippy Read Terminal TurtleArt Write However I think it would be judicious to add Help to this list. Help is very reassuring during discovery of the totally unfamiliar interface. I'm aware there are issues right now building a new Help from the FLOSS Manuals source, but I believe Help aids teachers and parents significantly with the Sugar GUI learning curve. Are there any other candidates today for the Fructose list we should consider? Not to open a can of worms - adjusting the pantheon is much less urgent than the discoverability/usability issues - but a review before each SoaS version seems judicious to me, especially since a choice needs to be made about which Activities are in the ring and which are off. I would suggest: Clock Help Maze Memorize Moon Read ETexts Speak Tux Paint I hesitated over: * Record which kids adore, but which I understand is iffy due to wide hardware variations, also teachers don't seem to like it much :-) * the TamTams which would make the list longish... (though my four-year-old figured out TamTam Mini in ten seconds the other day and loved every second with it) * GCompris Chess, since no 2-player yet. Our introduction to Sugar has a page with an attractive smorgasbord of Activities (http://www.sugarlabs.org/index.php?template=page&page=about_activities), and a link to ASLO. We listed the Activities in teacher/parent interest order: reassuring basics, net stuff, games/language/multimedia, the TamTams, tech/system utilities. Image Viewer and Jukebox are missing from this page, I propose to add them and two others to the matrix so the complete Fructose set (minus Image) is present. The Journal starts the list due to its special status, but it really should be broken out as a "special" Activity that is always there, saves everything automatically, allows resuming of work, etc. ASLO should have a brief mention of the Journal in the orientation intro I want to edit; telling inexperienced Sugar admins/teachers/parents/Learners that it is always in Sugar and can't be installed or uninstalled. This "super-Activity" distinction is important because the Journal icon occupies the same spot under the central XO avatar as the current Activity. Note that each icon links to the OLPC page (the intro site was published on a tight deadline just before the March 16th press release :-), I think we can update it to link to the ASLO pages now. Note: we have been doing some "star marketing" of Activities in our PR: Write, InfoSlicer, Mindmap, Portfolio. We chose these to appeal to teachers; they are differentiators. Some press articles have mentioned the star Activities, recognizing that they are interesting and unique to Sugar. Library for example is an Activity I'm not quite sure does what, but its name and logo will be irresistible to parents and teachers. OLPC has their list (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All) and we need to get that page to link to ASLO, the information there is uneven (contains some stillborn/abandonware). Perhaps the easiest fix would be to link from each Activity position on that page to that Activity's ASLO page; people searching the Activity population would quickly understand the different/parallel nature of the OLPC page and ASLO. As far as I know, there aren't any issues with the very latest versions running
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
I recommend u take a look at the openSUSE offering. I took a careful look at the activities available and packaged those that seemed useful, relatively bug free, and fun. I think we have about 55 activities now. kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:09 PM, James Simmons wrote: > Aleksey, > > That will teach me to open my mouth. At the moment the only Activities I'm > really familiar with are my own, Read, and your Library Activity which isn't > finished (but would definitely be worthy otherwise). I'll have to add some > more Activities to my XO and give them a try. Any suggestions on what might > be worth a recommended status will be welcomed. > > Your other ideas sound good, but I still think we need some highly visible > counts in there. As someone once said, "You gotta tell 'em to sell 'em!" > > Thanks, > > James Simmons > > > Aleksey Lim wrote: > > You are an editor now and can do the best > onhttp://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;) > > And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page > and per category main pages. > > > > I also question the category GCompris. I understand these Activities > are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful > to a teacher or a student. > > > fixed > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
These are not easy issues. Fedora had the core - extras dichotomy for 6 iterations before they combined the two. I think this was because, at first, there was a significant difference in quality between the two groups. As time past and the entire project matured, it become more work deciding and keeping track of which category a package fit than it was worth. david On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:03 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 11.06.2009, at 09:51, Sean DALY wrote: > >> ultimately, the question is: are there (or not) Activities common to >> every, or nearly every instance of Sugar? >> >> Browse >> Read >> Write >> etc. > > > At least the Fructose activities should always be there: > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/ > > - Bert - > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On 11.06.2009, at 09:51, Sean DALY wrote: > ultimately, the question is: are there (or not) Activities common to > every, or nearly every instance of Sugar? > > Browse > Read > Write > etc. At least the Fructose activities should always be there: http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/ - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:55:51AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > I guess I'm confused because for me, a "set of demo Activities" is not > at all the same thing as "baseline Activities included in every Sugar > deployment". I agree they're not exactly the same, but I think that's probably because "baseline Activities included in every Sugar deployment" really is the wrong set to seek to define: why might we think every deployment ever will need a given activity? I can't see many deployments going out without the ones you listed (Browse, Read, etc.) but they certainly *could* (imagine a small deployment that doesn't want / have internet / web browsing). It's not only theoretically hard to define, but: > I can't find a list of packs actually used in deployments, do we have > one somewhere? ...it's practically impossible to observe this list, as you've begun to encounter. Perhaps the discussion might be "what should we call Fructose instead of 'demo' activities"? I agree "demo" feels like it misses the point somehow. But "core" seems to beg the question ("core activities are...those that are core??") and "pre-installed deployed everywhere" seems to presume too much. Maybe "core" / "base" or soemthing is as good as we're going to get, though. > Activity Packs (Sets? Groups? Bundles? Hives?) seem to me a key part > of deployments, but I'm not sure where they fit in the diagram :-( Activities are manifest in activity bundles (.xo). Or are you talking about "content bundles" (which are going to go away as a separate concept, IIRC)? > thanks > > Sean Martin pgpRftxicMFXE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
hmmm thanks Martin for that I guess I'm confused because for me, a "set of demo Activities" is not at all the same thing as "baseline Activities included in every Sugar deployment". I mean, to demonstrate online collaboration, I could choose a fancier or more advanced Activity than might be on a list of more basic ones used in deployments already. As an example, Read Etext's ability to bring in an eBook from the tens of thousands in the Gutenberg Project, have it read by Speak, then share it, is an ultracool demo. But, is it in Fructose? GCompris has doubled our Activity offer and although the collaboration / view source / graphics are not where most other Activities are, I would include one or two GCompris Activities in any "demo set", if only to market Sugar to teachers already using GCompris in their classrooms these past few years. Activity Packs (Sets? Groups? Bundles? Hives?) seem to me a key part of deployments, but I'm not sure where they fit in the diagram :-( and I can't find a list of packs actually used in deployments, do we have one somewhere? thanks Sean On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Martin Dengler wrote: > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 09:51:24AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: >> ultimately, the question is: are there (or not) Activities common to >> every, or nearly every instance of Sugar? > > This is "Fructose": > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy#Fructose:_The_set_of_demonstration_activities > > If you keep asking what to call them we'll keep telling you what > they're called. > > Feel free to suggest alternates, but it's hard to effectively do so > without an understanding of the status quo. Please point out what's > confusing as I'm sure plenty of people would like to make things as > comprehensible as possible. I recognise that the fact people keep > asking could certainly be because it's not being well-explained. > > Please consider this diagram as well: > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy#The_SUGAR_stack:_block_diagram_view > >> Sean > > Martin > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 09:51:24AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > ultimately, the question is: are there (or not) Activities common to > every, or nearly every instance of Sugar? This is "Fructose": http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy#Fructose:_The_set_of_demonstration_activities If you keep asking what to call them we'll keep telling you what they're called. Feel free to suggest alternates, but it's hard to effectively do so without an understanding of the status quo. Please point out what's confusing as I'm sure plenty of people would like to make things as comprehensible as possible. I recognise that the fact people keep asking could certainly be because it's not being well-explained. Please consider this diagram as well: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy#The_SUGAR_stack:_block_diagram_view > Sean Martin pgpQzeHwZSCcu.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
ultimately, the question is: are there (or not) Activities common to every, or nearly every instance of Sugar? Browse Read Write etc. Sean On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 10 Jun 2009, at 18:24, James Simmons wrote: > >> Martin, >> >> I phrased that poorly. A kid might care that James Simmons wrote >> Read Etexts. He probably won't care if James Simmons is a part of >> Sugar Labs, or part of the community, or if it was part of GCompris, >> or if we consider Read Etexts part of Glucose, Sucrose, Fructose, etc. >> >> If a kid accidentally removes the Moon Activity and wants it back he >> might look in Math and Science or he might look in Pre-Installed. >> It should be listed in both places. > > I know what you meant about a "core" or "pre-Installed" category, but > this is going to break so fast, actually already broken. Different > distros are bundling different activities, some more some less, it's > their call. I think David Van Assche mentioned getting 50+ Activities > in the latest openSUSE image; and I'm sure school deployments will > choose their own Activity sets. > > --Gary > >> As far as Dominick's vs. Costco, I enjoy the time I spend at Costco >> and hate the time I spend at Dominick's. A good taxonomy would >> encourage a kid to explore the site and see what's available. A >> poor one would make him feel like I do on Sunday afternoons, >> wondering why canned tomatoes are in a totally different aisle than >> other canned vegetables, or why Pita bread isn't with the rest of >> the bread, or why Blue or Feta cheese isn't with the rest of the >> cheese in the Dairy section, etc. >> >> James Simmons >> >> >> Martin Dengler wrote: >>> Other than that, does any kid or teacher care who maintains an Activity? >>> >>> Clearly you view the answer as "no" (I think in general, the right >>> answer is "not unless they can get something out of that person", >>> which is a distinct possibility in FOSS-land, so actually I think the >>> answer should be "they should because it can help them"). I don't >>> know what point you're making, expect possibly "we needn't care about >>> aslo's coherency for anyone other than 'learners'". >>> >> >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On 10 Jun 2009, at 18:24, James Simmons wrote: > Martin, > > I phrased that poorly. A kid might care that James Simmons wrote > Read Etexts. He probably won't care if James Simmons is a part of > Sugar Labs, or part of the community, or if it was part of GCompris, > or if we consider Read Etexts part of Glucose, Sucrose, Fructose, etc. > > If a kid accidentally removes the Moon Activity and wants it back he > might look in Math and Science or he might look in Pre-Installed. > It should be listed in both places. I know what you meant about a "core" or "pre-Installed" category, but this is going to break so fast, actually already broken. Different distros are bundling different activities, some more some less, it's their call. I think David Van Assche mentioned getting 50+ Activities in the latest openSUSE image; and I'm sure school deployments will choose their own Activity sets. --Gary > As far as Dominick's vs. Costco, I enjoy the time I spend at Costco > and hate the time I spend at Dominick's. A good taxonomy would > encourage a kid to explore the site and see what's available. A > poor one would make him feel like I do on Sunday afternoons, > wondering why canned tomatoes are in a totally different aisle than > other canned vegetables, or why Pita bread isn't with the rest of > the bread, or why Blue or Feta cheese isn't with the rest of the > cheese in the Dairy section, etc. > > James Simmons > > > Martin Dengler wrote: >> >>> Other than that, does any kid or teacher care who maintains an >>> Activity? >>> >> >> Clearly you view the answer as "no" (I think in general, the right >> answer is "not unless they can get something out of that person", >> which is a distinct possibility in FOSS-land, so actually I think the >> answer should be "they should because it can help them"). I don't >> know what point you're making, expect possibly "we needn't care about >> aslo's coherency for anyone other than 'learners'". >> > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
FWIW, the 100 or so GCompris activities have an internal organization as well: maths physics puzzles reading amusements strategy games discovery learn about the computer -walter On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: > Hi James, > > On 10 Jun 2009, at 17:48, James Simmons wrote: > >> Martin, >> >> First and foremost ASLO has to make sense to grade school kids and >> their teachers. That's why I didn't care for GCompris as a >> category. Now since we can give an Activity up to three Categories >> it might make sense to have one for the stuff that comes pre- >> installed. Other than that, does any kid or teacher care who >> maintains an Activity? > > As I said once before, I'm really not a fan of ontologies, it's all > shades of grey for me, but I guess we should try and get agreement on > some set. Can't be much worse than we have already! :-) > > Here's the thread from back in March when we last tried to move on this: > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-March/004715.html > >> For ASLO we might want teachers to suggest categories based on >> subjects taught. For instance, instead of "Documents" we might have >> "Reading" and "Writing" or "Reading and Writing". Instead of "Media >> Creation" and "Media Playing" we could have "Art" and "Music". > > Not too much input from existing teachers unfortunately back then, but > the list I was keeping track of ended up at something like the below: > > Art > Communication > Games > Geography > Literacy > Maths > Music > Programming > Science > Utilities > > How does this seem to folks, anything missing or could be better > named? Was trying to keep the list reasonably short and non-technical. > > Regards, > --Gary > >> Among ourselves we can make any taxonomy we like, but for the public >> face of Sugar Activities we have to remember the target audience. >> >> Any discussion of taxonomy reminds me of grocery shopping on >> Sundays. Whoever does the taxonomies for Jewel and Dominick's seems >> to have no purpose in mind other than keeping me in the damned store >> as long as possible. On the other hand Costco arranges stuff in >> reasonable categories. >> >> James Simmons >> >> >> Martin Dengler wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: >>> I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying the "classics". >>> >>> It'd be great if the classifications found happened to, or could be >>> easily made to, be sensibly related to the classifications used for >>> quite some time now: >>> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy >>> >>> Somthing like: >>> >>> "SL-maintained" / "classics" / "core" <--> Fructose >>> "community-maintained" / "others" <--> Honey >>> "pre-installed [on SoaS]" <--> Starch/Cellulose >>> >>> I'm not saying the existing Taxonomy is the sexiest or >>> most-comprehensible-to-the-outsider, but it's well-aligned with the >>> development/deployment processes and if we promote a completely >>> orthogonal categorization it may cause a troublesome impedence >>> mismatch. >>> >>> thanks Sean >>> >>> Martin >>> >> >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Hi James, On 10 Jun 2009, at 17:48, James Simmons wrote: > Martin, > > First and foremost ASLO has to make sense to grade school kids and > their teachers. That's why I didn't care for GCompris as a > category. Now since we can give an Activity up to three Categories > it might make sense to have one for the stuff that comes pre- > installed. Other than that, does any kid or teacher care who > maintains an Activity? As I said once before, I'm really not a fan of ontologies, it's all shades of grey for me, but I guess we should try and get agreement on some set. Can't be much worse than we have already! :-) Here's the thread from back in March when we last tried to move on this: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-March/004715.html > For ASLO we might want teachers to suggest categories based on > subjects taught. For instance, instead of "Documents" we might have > "Reading" and "Writing" or "Reading and Writing". Instead of "Media > Creation" and "Media Playing" we could have "Art" and "Music". Not too much input from existing teachers unfortunately back then, but the list I was keeping track of ended up at something like the below: Art Communication Games Geography Literacy Maths Music Programming Science Utilities How does this seem to folks, anything missing or could be better named? Was trying to keep the list reasonably short and non-technical. Regards, --Gary > Among ourselves we can make any taxonomy we like, but for the public > face of Sugar Activities we have to remember the target audience. > > Any discussion of taxonomy reminds me of grocery shopping on > Sundays. Whoever does the taxonomies for Jewel and Dominick's seems > to have no purpose in mind other than keeping me in the damned store > as long as possible. On the other hand Costco arranges stuff in > reasonable categories. > > James Simmons > > > Martin Dengler wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: >> >>> I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying >>> the >>> "classics". >>> >> >> It'd be great if the classifications found happened to, or could be >> easily made to, be sensibly related to the classifications used for >> quite some time now: >> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy >> >> Somthing like: >> >> "SL-maintained" / "classics" / "core" <--> Fructose >> "community-maintained" / "others" <--> Honey >> "pre-installed [on SoaS]" <--> Starch/Cellulose >> >> I'm not saying the existing Taxonomy is the sexiest or >> most-comprehensible-to-the-outsider, but it's well-aligned with the >> development/deployment processes and if we promote a completely >> orthogonal categorization it may cause a troublesome impedence >> mismatch. >> >> >>> thanks >>> >>> Sean >>> >> >> Martin >> > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 07:08:45PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > FWIW, I have tried and failed to understand fructose, glucose, honey, > etc. When I get around to writing a little Activity I guess I'll climb > that learning curve. > > I'm sure it's a useful classification system, but I don't think > teachers, parents, or Learners need any level of system architecture > detail. Simpler is better. true, maybe "Basic" I guess "Preinstalled" doesn't make sense as well (for example in openSUSE we have ~40 preinstalled activities:) > If tagging is possible for each Activity, yup, it should work > perhaps it would be better > to do that? a simple search on "fructose" would return the list, > right? in current code there is a restriction of 3 simultaneously pinned tags I guess in that case we should increase this limit :) > > Sean > > > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > >> I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying the > >> "classics". > > I've created Fructose(but not sure about name) category for that reason > > > >> > >> i don't mind trying to write the instructions if someone else can edit > >> & post them. > >> > >> thanks > >> > >> Sean > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 4:37 PM, James Simmons > >> wrote: > >> > Sean, > >> > > >> > I had another thought. Activities can be included in up to three > >> > categories > >> > on ASLO. So, in addition to GCompris we could also have a "Core" > >> > category > >> > (or "Pre-Installed" or some other agreed upon phrase) that would include > >> > all > >> > the Activities that are installed by default. This would showcase our > >> > most > >> > essential Activities and also give people a place to download stuff they > >> > may > >> > have removed by mistake. > >> > > >> > When I first got my XO I didn't have a wireless router, so I had to copy > >> > everything in using a thumb drive. I agree that some simple instructions > >> > would be worthwhile. > >> > > >> > James Simmons > >> > > >> > Sean DALY wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which > >> >> I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; > >> >> it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will > >> >> alertly figure it out. > >> >> > >> >> Sean > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > -- > > Aleksey > > > -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
I think we're in violent agreement: different taxonomies are great in that they can serve different needs [and we don't want to confuse anyone if we can help it]. pgpF0WVPFERkY.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Martin, I phrased that poorly. A kid might care that James Simmons wrote Read Etexts. He probably won't care if James Simmons is a part of Sugar Labs, or part of the community, or if it was part of GCompris, or if we consider Read Etexts part of Glucose, Sucrose, Fructose, etc. If a kid accidentally removes the Moon Activity and wants it back he might look in Math and Science or he might look in Pre-Installed. It should be listed in both places. As far as Dominick's vs. Costco, I enjoy the time I spend at Costco and hate the time I spend at Dominick's. A good taxonomy would encourage a kid to explore the site and see what's available. A poor one would make him feel like I do on Sunday afternoons, wondering why canned tomatoes are in a totally different aisle than other canned vegetables, or why Pita bread isn't with the rest of the bread, or why Blue or Feta cheese isn't with the rest of the cheese in the Dairy section, etc. James Simmons Martin Dengler wrote: Other than that, does any kid or teacher care who maintains an Activity? Clearly you view the answer as "no" (I think in general, the right answer is "not unless they can get something out of that person", which is a distinct possibility in FOSS-land, so actually I think the answer should be "they should because it can help them"). I don't know what point you're making, expect possibly "we needn't care about aslo's coherency for anyone other than 'learners'". ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 04:47:07PM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote: > I'm not saying the existing Taxonomy is the sexiest or > most-comprehensible-to-the-outsider, but it's well-aligned with the > development/deployment processes and if we promote a completely > orthogonal categorization it may cause a troublesome impedence > mismatch. This came out wrong: a *completely" orthogonal categorization / tag set can be very sensible and could be great for the target audience. A not-so-completely orthogonal one could cause confusion. More tersely: s/completely/incompletely/. Sorry for any conflagrations. I think it'd be great if there were categorizations that were super-useful to Learners / etc. regarless of their utility to developers. > > thanks > > > > Sean > > Martin pgpvoPxdJdM8e.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
FWIW, I have tried and failed to understand fructose, glucose, honey, etc. When I get around to writing a little Activity I guess I'll climb that learning curve. I'm sure it's a useful classification system, but I don't think teachers, parents, or Learners need any level of system architecture detail. Simpler is better. If tagging is possible for each Activity, perhaps it would be better to do that? a simple search on "fructose" would return the list, right? Sean On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: >> I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying the >> "classics". > I've created Fructose(but not sure about name) category for that reason > >> >> i don't mind trying to write the instructions if someone else can edit >> & post them. >> >> thanks >> >> Sean >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 4:37 PM, James Simmons >> wrote: >> > Sean, >> > >> > I had another thought. Activities can be included in up to three >> > categories >> > on ASLO. So, in addition to GCompris we could also have a "Core" category >> > (or "Pre-Installed" or some other agreed upon phrase) that would include >> > all >> > the Activities that are installed by default. This would showcase our most >> > essential Activities and also give people a place to download stuff they >> > may >> > have removed by mistake. >> > >> > When I first got my XO I didn't have a wireless router, so I had to copy >> > everything in using a thumb drive. I agree that some simple instructions >> > would be worthwhile. >> > >> > James Simmons >> > >> > Sean DALY wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which >> >> I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; >> >> it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will >> >> alertly figure it out. >> >> >> >> Sean >> > >> > >> > > -- > Aleksey > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying the > "classics". I've created Fructose(but not sure about name) category for that reason > > i don't mind trying to write the instructions if someone else can edit > & post them. > > thanks > > Sean > > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 4:37 PM, James Simmons > wrote: > > Sean, > > > > I had another thought. Activities can be included in up to three categories > > on ASLO. So, in addition to GCompris we could also have a "Core" category > > (or "Pre-Installed" or some other agreed upon phrase) that would include all > > the Activities that are installed by default. This would showcase our most > > essential Activities and also give people a place to download stuff they may > > have removed by mistake. > > > > When I first got my XO I didn't have a wireless router, so I had to copy > > everything in using a thumb drive. I agree that some simple instructions > > would be worthwhile. > > > > James Simmons > > > > Sean DALY wrote: > >> > >> Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which > >> I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; > >> it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will > >> alertly figure it out. > >> > >> Sean > > > > > -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:48:43AM -0500, James Simmons wrote: > Martin, > > First and foremost ASLO has to make sense to grade school kids and their > teachers. Sure - I'm agreeing > That's why I didn't care for GCompris as a category. I didn't see that as an issue. > Now since we can give an Activity up to three Categories it might > make sense to have one for the stuff that comes pre-installed. Sure - I'm agreeing > Other than that, does any kid or teacher care who maintains an > Activity? Clearly you view the answer as "no" (I think in general, the right answer is "not unless they can get something out of that person", which is a distinct possibility in FOSS-land, so actually I think the answer should be "they should because it can help them"). I don't know what point you're making, expect possibly "we needn't care about aslo's coherency for anyone other than 'learners'". > Among ourselves we can make any taxonomy we like, but for the public > face of Sugar Activities we have to remember the target audience. Did you think I was saying the opposite? >> It'd be great if the classifications found happened to, or could be >> easily made to, be sensibly related to the classifications used for >> quite some time now: I hardly read that as "the classifications must be only what we already have". > Any discussion of taxonomy reminds me of grocery shopping on > Sundays. Well, I didn't start it :). > Whoever does the taxonomies for Jewel and Dominick's seems to have > no purpose in mind other than keeping me in the damned store as long > as possible. On the other hand Costco arranges stuff in reasonable > categories. Are you saying that we should design our taxonomy to get people off ASLO as soon as possible? If not, what? > James Simmons Martin pgpV46R89G0wV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Martin, First and foremost ASLO has to make sense to grade school kids and their teachers. That's why I didn't care for GCompris as a category. Now since we can give an Activity up to three Categories it might make sense to have one for the stuff that comes pre-installed. Other than that, does any kid or teacher care who maintains an Activity? For ASLO we might want teachers to suggest categories based on subjects taught. For instance, instead of "Documents" we might have "Reading" and "Writing" or "Reading and Writing". Instead of "Media Creation" and "Media Playing" we could have "Art" and "Music". Among ourselves we can make any taxonomy we like, but for the public face of Sugar Activities we have to remember the target audience. Any discussion of taxonomy reminds me of grocery shopping on Sundays. Whoever does the taxonomies for Jewel and Dominick's seems to have no purpose in mind other than keeping me in the damned store as long as possible. On the other hand Costco arranges stuff in reasonable categories. James Simmons Martin Dengler wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying the "classics". It'd be great if the classifications found happened to, or could be easily made to, be sensibly related to the classifications used for quite some time now: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy Somthing like: "SL-maintained" / "classics" / "core" <--> Fructose "community-maintained" / "others" <--> Honey "pre-installed [on SoaS]" <--> Starch/Cellulose I'm not saying the existing Taxonomy is the sexiest or most-comprehensible-to-the-outsider, but it's well-aligned with the development/deployment processes and if we promote a completely orthogonal categorization it may cause a troublesome impedence mismatch. thanks Sean Martin ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying the > "classics". It'd be great if the classifications found happened to, or could be easily made to, be sensibly related to the classifications used for quite some time now: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy Somthing like: "SL-maintained" / "classics" / "core" <--> Fructose "community-maintained" / "others" <--> Honey "pre-installed [on SoaS]" <--> Starch/Cellulose I'm not saying the existing Taxonomy is the sexiest or most-comprehensible-to-the-outsider, but it's well-aligned with the development/deployment processes and if we promote a completely orthogonal categorization it may cause a troublesome impedence mismatch. > thanks > > Sean Martin pgpXpoDcgSr4g.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
I think that's a great idea - will be very helpful in identifying the "classics". i don't mind trying to write the instructions if someone else can edit & post them. thanks Sean On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 4:37 PM, James Simmons wrote: > Sean, > > I had another thought. Activities can be included in up to three categories > on ASLO. So, in addition to GCompris we could also have a "Core" category > (or "Pre-Installed" or some other agreed upon phrase) that would include all > the Activities that are installed by default. This would showcase our most > essential Activities and also give people a place to download stuff they may > have removed by mistake. > > When I first got my XO I didn't have a wireless router, so I had to copy > everything in using a thumb drive. I agree that some simple instructions > would be worthwhile. > > James Simmons > > Sean DALY wrote: >> >> Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which >> I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; >> it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will >> alertly figure it out. >> >> Sean > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Sean, I had another thought. Activities can be included in up to three categories on ASLO. So, in addition to GCompris we could also have a "Core" category (or "Pre-Installed" or some other agreed upon phrase) that would include all the Activities that are installed by default. This would showcase our most essential Activities and also give people a place to download stuff they may have removed by mistake. When I first got my XO I didn't have a wireless router, so I had to copy everything in using a thumb drive. I agree that some simple instructions would be worthwhile. James Simmons Sean DALY wrote: > Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which > I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; > it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will > alertly figure it out. > > Sean ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 02:09:16AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Martin Dengler > wrote: > > Definitely, a good feature to have. I was just talking about what > > existed right now in SoaS (which is: no working updater, AFAIK). The patch I just sent should now enable a "working" updater. Where "working" means "doing what it used to do [which is look at the OLPC wiki for new versions]". > I recently got help opening a bug ticket account, I'll try my hand at > that thanks for your patient assistance Thanks for your patience, too. > Sean Martin pgpxRZVrOyErq.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
I recently got help opening a bug ticket account, I'll try my hand at that thanks for your patient assistance Sean On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Martin Dengler wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 01:53:06AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: >> Intuitively, I would expect ASLO to be polled by Sugar >> machines... in clicking, I expect the machine to figure out all by >> itself what it needs to be up to date... > > Definitely, a good feature to have. I was just talking about what > existed right now in SoaS (which is: no working updater, AFAIK). > >> I guess the best way out of >> that is to ask OLPC to title that page "Search for OLPC updates"? > > One could always change it and see if it got changed back :) > >> >> I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB >> >> key from within Sugar :-) >> > >> > How can this be made easier for newcomers to learn? >> >> Re USB: a brief little popup saying "Your USB key is visible in the >> Journal" would be helpful I think. > > That sounds like a nice feature to me. In an ideal world you would > have time to file a bug report, and in a slightly-less-ideal world I'd > have time to do it for you instead of pointing this out :). > >> Sean > > Martin > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 01:53:06AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > Intuitively, I would expect ASLO to be polled by Sugar > machines... in clicking, I expect the machine to figure out all by > itself what it needs to be up to date... Definitely, a good feature to have. I was just talking about what existed right now in SoaS (which is: no working updater, AFAIK). > I guess the best way out of > that is to ask OLPC to title that page "Search for OLPC updates"? One could always change it and see if it got changed back :) > >> I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB > >> key from within Sugar :-) > > > > How can this be made easier for newcomers to learn? > > Re USB: a brief little popup saying "Your USB key is visible in the > Journal" would be helpful I think. That sounds like a nice feature to me. In an ideal world you would have time to file a bug report, and in a slightly-less-ideal world I'd have time to do it for you instead of pointing this out :). > Sean Martin pgp1I9RERx7o0.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
many thanks Martin for finding that thread for me, I have so much going on I'm having trouble remembering keywords to look things up Actually what faked me out was the fine print about XO software update: it won't update to the latest Activity version on ASLO, just the latest OLPC supported Activity version. Which is of course perfectly logical now that I think about it, but as Activity versions are coming fast & furious, I had lost confidence in the "Your software is up-to-date" message... since I knew more recent versions were available. Intuitively, I would expect ASLO to be polled by Sugar machines... in clicking, I expect the machine to figure out all by itself what it needs to be up to date... I guess the best way out of that is to ask OLPC to title that page "Search for OLPC updates"? Re USB: a brief little popup saying "Your USB key is visible in the Journal" would be helpful I think. Sean On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Martin Dengler wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:58:39AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: >> Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which >> I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; >> it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will >> alertly figure it out. > > This is the email thread you may have been thinking of, with a "couple > of phrases" suggested: > http://n2.nabble.com/-Marketing--adding-or-updating-an-Activity:-two-typical-teacher-scenarios,-let%27s-%09lower-barrier-to-installation-td2981491.html > (ugh, that's a horrible link). > >> After all, common sense tells you that Software Update in the >> Control Panel should check for Activity updates, which it sort of >> does, but also doesn't. > > It does (check for activity updates that OLPC supports) on OLPC > builds. The Software Update extension in the Control Panel doesn't > exist (well, it's broken and hidden) on SoaS. So it either works as > designed, or isn't present. > >> I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB >> key from within Sugar :-) > > How can this be made easier for newcomers to learn? > >> Sean > > Martin > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Sean DALY wrote: > umm... I'm trying to understand how that assists in keeping Activities > up-to-date... what plays the role of the FF browser, phoning in for > version availability? As far as FF goes, the FF updater ping the addons.mozilla.org periodically with a list of installed addons and version numbers. AMO responds with a list of updateable addons. The sugar updater would need to be extended to handle this additional level of polling to activities.sugarlabs.org. david > thanks > > Sean > > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:04 AM, David Farning wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Sean DALY wrote: >>> Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which >>> I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; >>> it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will >>> alertly figure it out. >>> >>> After all, common sense tells you that Software Update in the Control >>> Panel should check for Activity updates, which it sort of does, but >>> also doesn't. I understand that that infrastructure is on the OLPC >>> side, but a friendly checkbox for activities.sugarlabs.org (with of >>> course the server-side magic necessary) would help a lot. >> >> Aslo is set up to handle automatic activity updates using the same >> mechanism firefox uses to check for addon update. >> >> david >> >>> I have stringent wireless security at home and it's a pain to connect >>> my XOs wirelessly, so I usually temporarily run a cable to an Ethernet >>> USB adapter (the green Zoltan thing I got from XOexplosion). But I got >>> stuck with ASLO by downloading the xo packages on another computer, to >>> a USB stick; with no idea how to bring them into an XO or a netbook >>> running SoaS. I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB >>> key from within Sugar :-) >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:28 AM, James >>> Simmons wrote: Sean DALY wrote: > > GCompris is fine where it is; it is very well known in Europe and > elsewhere and has a five year headstart on us in word-of-mouth and > credibility with teachers. Although marketing/branding of GCompris has > been minimalist, it has a well-deserved reputation for quality. I'm > very excited GCompris is arriving in Sugar and I hope collaboration > will work in those Activities too. > OK with me. I hadn't heard of it before OLPC, so I assumed nobody else had either. > > I disagree that common baseline Activities should be absent; > I never suggested that they be *absent*, just not featured. I'm thinking that a new Sugar user finds his way to ASLO by clicking a link on the Browse start page and the featured items ought to be things he doesn't have yet. I like the term "Featured Activity" better than "We Recommend" too. "We Recommend" implies that the Activity is among the best and most robust we have, which limits what you can put in there. "Featured Activity" implies nothing more than "We think this is cool and worth a look." For instance, I would not hesitate to put "Story Builder" or "GCompris 3D Maze" as a Featured Activity, but would have a harder time saying I recommend either of them. Plus you could change what is a Featured Item every month or so. That would make this site a bit more interesting to visit, and you wouldn't have people wondering why last month we recommended Read Etexts but this month we don't. > > We need a short intro explaining > the install procedure (it took me days to figure out how to do it). I > had mentioned this a while back but I don't remember if someone > besides me had volunteered to look at that I just hit the Download button from within Browse. The Activity gets added to my Journal and is ready for use. I know there are other ways to install something, but downloading to the Journal works just fine for me. James Simmons >>> ___ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>> >> > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
umm... I'm trying to understand how that assists in keeping Activities up-to-date... what plays the role of the FF browser, phoning in for version availability? thanks Sean On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:04 AM, David Farning wrote: > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Sean DALY wrote: >> Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which >> I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; >> it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will >> alertly figure it out. >> >> After all, common sense tells you that Software Update in the Control >> Panel should check for Activity updates, which it sort of does, but >> also doesn't. I understand that that infrastructure is on the OLPC >> side, but a friendly checkbox for activities.sugarlabs.org (with of >> course the server-side magic necessary) would help a lot. > > Aslo is set up to handle automatic activity updates using the same > mechanism firefox uses to check for addon update. > > david > >> I have stringent wireless security at home and it's a pain to connect >> my XOs wirelessly, so I usually temporarily run a cable to an Ethernet >> USB adapter (the green Zoltan thing I got from XOexplosion). But I got >> stuck with ASLO by downloading the xo packages on another computer, to >> a USB stick; with no idea how to bring them into an XO or a netbook >> running SoaS. I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB >> key from within Sugar :-) >> >> Sean >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:28 AM, James >> Simmons wrote: >>> Sean DALY wrote: GCompris is fine where it is; it is very well known in Europe and elsewhere and has a five year headstart on us in word-of-mouth and credibility with teachers. Although marketing/branding of GCompris has been minimalist, it has a well-deserved reputation for quality. I'm very excited GCompris is arriving in Sugar and I hope collaboration will work in those Activities too. >>> >>> OK with me. I hadn't heard of it before OLPC, so I assumed nobody else had >>> either. I disagree that common baseline Activities should be absent; >>> >>> I never suggested that they be *absent*, just not featured. I'm thinking >>> that a new Sugar user finds his way to ASLO by clicking a link on the Browse >>> start page and the featured items ought to be things he doesn't have yet. >>> >>> I like the term "Featured Activity" better than "We Recommend" too. "We >>> Recommend" implies that the Activity is among the best and most robust we >>> have, which limits what you can put in there. "Featured Activity" implies >>> nothing more than "We think this is cool and worth a look." For instance, I >>> would not hesitate to put "Story Builder" or "GCompris 3D Maze" as a >>> Featured Activity, but would have a harder time saying I recommend either of >>> them. Plus you could change what is a Featured Item every month or so. >>> That would make this site a bit more interesting to visit, and you wouldn't >>> have people wondering why last month we recommended Read Etexts but this >>> month we don't. We need a short intro explaining the install procedure (it took me days to figure out how to do it). I had mentioned this a while back but I don't remember if someone besides me had volunteered to look at that >>> >>> I just hit the Download button from within Browse. The Activity gets added >>> to my Journal and is ready for use. I know there are other ways to install >>> something, but downloading to the Journal works just fine for me. >>> >>> James Simmons >>> >>> >>> >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:58:39AM +0200, Sean DALY wrote: > Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which > I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; > it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will > alertly figure it out. This is the email thread you may have been thinking of, with a "couple of phrases" suggested: http://n2.nabble.com/-Marketing--adding-or-updating-an-Activity:-two-typical-teacher-scenarios,-let%27s-%09lower-barrier-to-installation-td2981491.html (ugh, that's a horrible link). > After all, common sense tells you that Software Update in the > Control Panel should check for Activity updates, which it sort of > does, but also doesn't. It does (check for activity updates that OLPC supports) on OLPC builds. The Software Update extension in the Control Panel doesn't exist (well, it's broken and hidden) on SoaS. So it either works as designed, or isn't present. > I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB > key from within Sugar :-) How can this be made easier for newcomers to learn? > Sean Martin pgp4O6dh5N1ck.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Sean DALY wrote: > Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which > I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; > it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will > alertly figure it out. > > After all, common sense tells you that Software Update in the Control > Panel should check for Activity updates, which it sort of does, but > also doesn't. I understand that that infrastructure is on the OLPC > side, but a friendly checkbox for activities.sugarlabs.org (with of > course the server-side magic necessary) would help a lot. Aslo is set up to handle automatic activity updates using the same mechanism firefox uses to check for addon update. david > I have stringent wireless security at home and it's a pain to connect > my XOs wirelessly, so I usually temporarily run a cable to an Ethernet > USB adapter (the green Zoltan thing I got from XOexplosion). But I got > stuck with ASLO by downloading the xo packages on another computer, to > a USB stick; with no idea how to bring them into an XO or a netbook > running SoaS. I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB > key from within Sugar :-) > > Sean > > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:28 AM, James > Simmons wrote: >> Sean DALY wrote: >>> >>> GCompris is fine where it is; it is very well known in Europe and >>> elsewhere and has a five year headstart on us in word-of-mouth and >>> credibility with teachers. Although marketing/branding of GCompris has >>> been minimalist, it has a well-deserved reputation for quality. I'm >>> very excited GCompris is arriving in Sugar and I hope collaboration >>> will work in those Activities too. >>> >> >> OK with me. I hadn't heard of it before OLPC, so I assumed nobody else had >> either. >>> >>> I disagree that common baseline Activities should be absent; >>> >> >> I never suggested that they be *absent*, just not featured. I'm thinking >> that a new Sugar user finds his way to ASLO by clicking a link on the Browse >> start page and the featured items ought to be things he doesn't have yet. >> >> I like the term "Featured Activity" better than "We Recommend" too. "We >> Recommend" implies that the Activity is among the best and most robust we >> have, which limits what you can put in there. "Featured Activity" implies >> nothing more than "We think this is cool and worth a look." For instance, I >> would not hesitate to put "Story Builder" or "GCompris 3D Maze" as a >> Featured Activity, but would have a harder time saying I recommend either of >> them. Plus you could change what is a Featured Item every month or so. >> That would make this site a bit more interesting to visit, and you wouldn't >> have people wondering why last month we recommended Read Etexts but this >> month we don't. >>> >>> We need a short intro explaining >>> the install procedure (it took me days to figure out how to do it). I >>> had mentioned this a while back but I don't remember if someone >>> besides me had volunteered to look at that >> >> I just hit the Download button from within Browse. The Activity gets added >> to my Journal and is ready for use. I know there are other ways to install >> something, but downloading to the Journal works just fine for me. >> >> James Simmons >> >> >> > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Yes, that's the procedure when running Sugar and using Browse... which I wasn't doing. A couple of phrases removing the mystery will help us; it's a lowering-the-barriers issue... we can't assume everyone will alertly figure it out. After all, common sense tells you that Software Update in the Control Panel should check for Activity updates, which it sort of does, but also doesn't. I understand that that infrastructure is on the OLPC side, but a friendly checkbox for activities.sugarlabs.org (with of course the server-side magic necessary) would help a lot. I have stringent wireless security at home and it's a pain to connect my XOs wirelessly, so I usually temporarily run a cable to an Ethernet USB adapter (the green Zoltan thing I got from XOexplosion). But I got stuck with ASLO by downloading the xo packages on another computer, to a USB stick; with no idea how to bring them into an XO or a netbook running SoaS. I only recently figured out how to browse files on a USB key from within Sugar :-) Sean On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:28 AM, James Simmons wrote: > Sean DALY wrote: >> >> GCompris is fine where it is; it is very well known in Europe and >> elsewhere and has a five year headstart on us in word-of-mouth and >> credibility with teachers. Although marketing/branding of GCompris has >> been minimalist, it has a well-deserved reputation for quality. I'm >> very excited GCompris is arriving in Sugar and I hope collaboration >> will work in those Activities too. >> > > OK with me. I hadn't heard of it before OLPC, so I assumed nobody else had > either. >> >> I disagree that common baseline Activities should be absent; >> > > I never suggested that they be *absent*, just not featured. I'm thinking > that a new Sugar user finds his way to ASLO by clicking a link on the Browse > start page and the featured items ought to be things he doesn't have yet. > > I like the term "Featured Activity" better than "We Recommend" too. "We > Recommend" implies that the Activity is among the best and most robust we > have, which limits what you can put in there. "Featured Activity" implies > nothing more than "We think this is cool and worth a look." For instance, I > would not hesitate to put "Story Builder" or "GCompris 3D Maze" as a > Featured Activity, but would have a harder time saying I recommend either of > them. Plus you could change what is a Featured Item every month or so. > That would make this site a bit more interesting to visit, and you wouldn't > have people wondering why last month we recommended Read Etexts but this > month we don't. >> >> We need a short intro explaining >> the install procedure (it took me days to figure out how to do it). I >> had mentioned this a while back but I don't remember if someone >> besides me had volunteered to look at that > > I just hit the Download button from within Browse. The Activity gets added > to my Journal and is ready for use. I know there are other ways to install > something, but downloading to the Journal works just fine for me. > > James Simmons > > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Sean DALY wrote: > GCompris is fine where it is; it is very well known in Europe and > elsewhere and has a five year headstart on us in word-of-mouth and > credibility with teachers. Although marketing/branding of GCompris has > been minimalist, it has a well-deserved reputation for quality. I'm > very excited GCompris is arriving in Sugar and I hope collaboration > will work in those Activities too. > OK with me. I hadn't heard of it before OLPC, so I assumed nobody else had either. > I disagree that common baseline Activities should be absent; > I never suggested that they be *absent*, just not featured. I'm thinking that a new Sugar user finds his way to ASLO by clicking a link on the Browse start page and the featured items ought to be things he doesn't have yet. I like the term "Featured Activity" better than "We Recommend" too. "We Recommend" implies that the Activity is among the best and most robust we have, which limits what you can put in there. "Featured Activity" implies nothing more than "We think this is cool and worth a look." For instance, I would not hesitate to put "Story Builder" or "GCompris 3D Maze" as a Featured Activity, but would have a harder time saying I recommend either of them. Plus you could change what is a Featured Item every month or so. That would make this site a bit more interesting to visit, and you wouldn't have people wondering why last month we recommended Read Etexts but this month we don't. > We need a short intro explaining > the install procedure (it took me days to figure out how to do it). I > had mentioned this a while back but I don't remember if someone > besides me had volunteered to look at that I just hit the Download button from within Browse. The Activity gets added to my Journal and is ready for use. I know there are other ways to install something, but downloading to the Journal works just fine for me. James Simmons ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:08 PM, James Simmons wrote: > Aleksey, > > I see the need to avoid changing upstream code. Please ping me if you need help pushing something like this upstream. Mozilla is _very_ aware of the importance of good marketing. david Maybe we could get 90% of > the benefit by just having some text under the "sugarlabs Activities" logo > saying "Over 140 Activities available!" Just enough to indicate there *is* > a lot available and encourage visitors to search. > > I played with a few Activities over my lunch break. I should have some > recommendations by next week. > > James Simmons > > Aleksey Lim wrote: > > the problem is - we depend on upstream AMO code, so patching ASLO code a lot > will mean problems while merging new AMO commits (we can suggest our changes > directly to AMO but thats another story). > > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Looking better all the time. For the moment, the site suffers from being ghettoized from the rest of the Sugar Labs site; you can get in, but you can't get out - there's no Sugar Labs navigation. Direct links coming in mean the rest of the site is invisible. To fix this (and the other sections too, it's not a problem specific to Activities), Christian has promised me he will have the sitewide persistent navbar soon, he's super-occupied with the new baby :-) As search is local, it's good the search bar indicates in explicitly. I agree with most of what James said. I can add: the site actually fulfills a marketing function, unrelated to downloads: it's a quick way for someone checking out the project to see how much and what kinds of content are available, if the ecosystem is active, and so on. A few years ago, from reading magazines and blogs, I was aware that Firefox had a vibrant add-on offer months before I ever downloaded one. So yes, there should be a count somewhere which instantly communicates the richness. The non US-en bug is still in effect; French users and I suspect other locales see no content whatsoever, which to my mind is a bigger problem than which Activities to feature. There is a language selector which allows magically populating the empty site, but it's practically unfindable. I would suggest disabling the language selector if that bug can't be easily fixed (upstream). GCompris is fine where it is; it is very well known in Europe and elsewhere and has a five year headstart on us in word-of-mouth and credibility with teachers. Although marketing/branding of GCompris has been minimalist, it has a well-deserved reputation for quality. I'm very excited GCompris is arriving in Sugar and I hope collaboration will work in those Activities too. I disagree that common baseline Activities should be absent; a common scenario could be replacing an Activity removed by a Learner. Forgive my ignorance, but is the OLPC notion of a "set" applicable? is it possible to tag some Activities as "baseline", to have section for them (can an Activity be in more than one section)? I agree though that they shouldn't be featured unless a major upgrade is available. As well, there are more than one reading Activities; the logical place to locate them is here, but some parents or teachers on a Sugar learning curve may believe that baseline Read "needs" to be uninstalled to install Read eTexts. We need a short intro explaining the install procedure (it took me days to figure out how to do it). I had mentioned this a while back but I don't remember if someone besides me had volunteered to look at that thanks. Sean On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 12:09:56PM -0500, James Simmons wrote: >> Aleksey, >> >> That will teach me to open my mouth. > :) > >> At the moment the only Activities >> I'm really familiar with are my own, Read, and your Library Activity >> which isn't finished (but would definitely be worthy otherwise). I'll >> have to add some more Activities to my XO and give them a try. Any >> suggestions on what might be worth a recommended status will be welcomed. > well, we have not so much sugar activities on ASLO(I hope just for now) > ..and I guess we should add some kind of filter to separate native sugar > activities from GCompris, now we have 40 vs. 100 :) > >> Your other ideas sound good, but I still think we need some highly >> visible counts in there. As someone once said, "You gotta tell 'em to >> sell 'em!" > the problem is - we depend on upstream AMO code, so patching ASLO code a lot > will mean problems while merging new AMO commits (we can suggest our changes > directly to AMO but thats another story). > >> >> Thanks, >> >> James Simmons >> >> >> Aleksey Lim wrote: >>> You are an editor now and can do the best on >>> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;) >>> >>> And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page >>> and per category main pages. >>> >>> I also question the category GCompris. I understand these Activities are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful to a teacher or a student. >>> fixed > > -- > Aleksey > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Aleksey, I see the need to avoid changing upstream code. Maybe we could get 90% of the benefit by just having some text under the "sugarlabs Activities" logo saying "Over 140 Activities available!" Just enough to indicate there *is* a lot available and encourage visitors to search. I played with a few Activities over my lunch break. I should have some recommendations by next week. James Simmons Aleksey Lim wrote: the problem is - we depend on upstream AMO code, so patching ASLO code a lot will mean problems while merging new AMO commits (we can suggest our changes directly to AMO but thats another story). ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 12:09:56PM -0500, James Simmons wrote: > Aleksey, > > That will teach me to open my mouth. :) > At the moment the only Activities > I'm really familiar with are my own, Read, and your Library Activity > which isn't finished (but would definitely be worthy otherwise). I'll > have to add some more Activities to my XO and give them a try. Any > suggestions on what might be worth a recommended status will be welcomed. well, we have not so much sugar activities on ASLO(I hope just for now) ..and I guess we should add some kind of filter to separate native sugar activities from GCompris, now we have 40 vs. 100 :) > Your other ideas sound good, but I still think we need some highly > visible counts in there. As someone once said, "You gotta tell 'em to > sell 'em!" the problem is - we depend on upstream AMO code, so patching ASLO code a lot will mean problems while merging new AMO commits (we can suggest our changes directly to AMO but thats another story). > > Thanks, > > James Simmons > > > Aleksey Lim wrote: >> You are an editor now and can do the best on >> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;) >> >> And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page >> and per category main pages. >> >> >>> I also question the category GCompris. I understand these Activities >>> are related to each other, but the relationship would not be >>> meaningful to a teacher or a student. >>> >> fixed -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
Aleksey, That will teach me to open my mouth. At the moment the only Activities I'm really familiar with are my own, Read, and your Library Activity which isn't finished (but would definitely be worthy otherwise). I'll have to add some more Activities to my XO and give them a try. Any suggestions on what might be worth a recommended status will be welcomed. Your other ideas sound good, but I still think we need some highly visible counts in there. As someone once said, "You gotta tell 'em to sell 'em!" Thanks, James Simmons Aleksey Lim wrote: You are an editor now and can do the best on http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;) And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page and per category main pages. I also question the category GCompris. I understand these Activities are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful to a teacher or a student. fixed ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion
On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 09:50:31AM -0500, James Simmons wrote: > The new style sheet for ASLO reminds me that something has bugged me > about the design of the site from the beginning. The site does not do a > good job of showing just how much is available. When you click on a > category you see entries for three or four Activities, seemingly picked > at random, and no indication that these Activities are not the only ones > available in the category. Yes, there is a link to show everything in > the category. It's not that you can't find anything if you really want > to. It's that the site doesn't do a good job of selling what it has. > > What I would suggest is to put totals for each category in a prominent > place on the page. When you first come into the site and no category is > selected you should see something like "500 Great Activities > Available!" Choose a category like Documents and the line would read > "10 Activities In This Category." In my mind we can do something similar w/o patching upstream code much, now ASLO does this: * on the main page it shows 5(6) featured activities in "We Recommended" and 3 others in below list * in category list it shows "We Recommended"(if there are recommended activities in this category) and random list of 3 other activities in this category So, we can just increase amount of activities from 3 to 10(or so) http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/947 and instead of random list show list of featured activities http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/948 > The other thing that has bugged me is the Recommended Activities. We > need to put more thought into what gets recommended. Currently one of > the Activities that is recommended is Read. Now an XO owner or SoaS > user already has Read, so why recommend it? Is there some reason I > should remove the Read I already have and install this one? > > Recommended Activities should promote Sugar. They should meet the > following criteria: > > 1). Fairly robust. > 2). Not included by default with anything. > 3). Should do something interesting. Think of the iPhone commercials > that show all the apps that are available. Why not recommend something > like Food Force or Story Builder? You are an editor now and can do the best on http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;) And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page and per category main pages. > I also question the category GCompris. I understand these Activities > are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful > to a teacher or a student. fixed > > A little salesmanship could go a long way in making this site better. > > James Simmons > -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep