Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 17:12, David Van Assche wrote: > Ok, I think what's happening here is a breakdown in communication. When I > used the term obvious, I was talking about Christoph's email... I was > stating that perhaps the message, as I understood it, was that we need more > data from the field... and that _the message_ was not obvious enough in the > email. I never meant that the feedback was not obvious enough... or that > developers were not doing enough to keep us informed. Ok, I'm sorry about that. The thread was about feedback from GPA not being relevant for the 99.99% of Sugar users, in case that helps explain my reply. > I really hope this makes sense. I'm a little concerned that I have to be so > careful about wording. I sort of get the feeling that should one make any > type of constructive criticism, this is immediately construed as a threat, > and the person writing the criticism is forced to walk on egg shells. > > I understand that talking about what can be done better, or what should have > been done that wasnt, etc causes very emotional responses because of the > time people have given to the project, but should we really just shut up > about this stuff? Or is there value to hearing people's opinions on how > things could be improved? I think you are right in that criticism is very important and I didn't welcomed it properly, hope to improve on this. > And on that note, I'd like to hear how I can improve gathering feedback for > our Autonomous region, based on methods currently in place elsewhere. What > I'm asking for is links to documentation that show how this has been done > till now in South America, Nepal and Asia, Africa, Europe. I've looked > around, but there is not too much information on the web. My idea is to try > and automate this as much as possible by creating a set of scripts, or > plugins that can measure stats and then send these (probably via xmpp) > > Someone mentioned munin, but this doesn't really give user statistics much > though... its more of a network tool for servers for measuring performance, > resource usage, and graphing these. What I am talking about is digitising > the current manual feedback that is happening elsewhere (how many users > running which apps, lesson plans being used, languages, how many computers > requiring repairs, general problems people are running into, and generally > people's feelings on sugar usage, maybe even surveys) I would start by listing the kind of parameters for which we could use quantitative data, then think about how we could gather it. I remember an interesting thread in olpc-sur about assessment of the plan ceibal, may be interesting to ask there for opinions. Regards, Tomeu > kind regards, > David Van Assche > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Assche >> wrote: >> > I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we >> > need >> > more data from the field" >> >> Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough. >> Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback. >> >> Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to >> organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it! >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> >> > I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, >> > I >> > am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, >> > and I >> > am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I >> > am >> > saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make >> > sense? >> > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not >> > seeing >> > it? >> > >> > regards, >> > David >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche >> >> wrote: >> >> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it >> >> > as >> >> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small >> >> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is >> >> > happening >> >> > on a >> >> > larger scale in the third world. >> >> >> >> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all? >> >> >> >> > And its important to acknowledge the >> >> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. >> >> >> >> And isn't this stating the obvious? >> >> >> >> > I think >> >> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way >> >> > more >> >> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large >> >> > scale, >> >> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to >> >> > have >> >> > some >> >> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. >> >> >> >> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we >> >> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and >> >> v
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
Ok, I think what's happening here is a breakdown in communication. When I used the term obvious, I was talking about Christoph's email... I was stating that perhaps the message, as I understood it, was that we need more data from the field... and that _the message_ was not obvious enough in the email. I never meant that the feedback was not obvious enough... or that developers were not doing enough to keep us informed. I really hope this makes sense. I'm a little concerned that I have to be so careful about wording. I sort of get the feeling that should one make any type of constructive criticism, this is immediately construed as a threat, and the person writing the criticism is forced to walk on egg shells. I understand that talking about what can be done better, or what should have been done that wasnt, etc causes very emotional responses because of the time people have given to the project, but should we really just shut up about this stuff? Or is there value to hearing people's opinions on how things could be improved? And on that note, I'd like to hear how I can improve gathering feedback for our Autonomous region, based on methods currently in place elsewhere. What I'm asking for is links to documentation that show how this has been done till now in South America, Nepal and Asia, Africa, Europe. I've looked around, but there is not too much information on the web. My idea is to try and automate this as much as possible by creating a set of scripts, or plugins that can measure stats and then send these (probably via xmpp) Someone mentioned munin, but this doesn't really give user statistics much though... its more of a network tool for servers for measuring performance, resource usage, and graphing these. What I am talking about is digitising the current manual feedback that is happening elsewhere (how many users running which apps, lesson plans being used, languages, how many computers requiring repairs, general problems people are running into, and generally people's feelings on sugar usage, maybe even surveys) kind regards, David Van Assche On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Assche > wrote: > > I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we > need > > more data from the field" > > Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough. > Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback. > > Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to > organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it! > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > > I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, > I > > am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, > and I > > am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am > > saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make > sense? > > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing > > it? > > > > regards, > > David > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso > wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche > >> wrote: > >> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it > as > >> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small > >> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening > >> > on a > >> > larger scale in the third world. > >> > >> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all? > >> > >> > And its important to acknowledge the > >> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. > >> > >> And isn't this stating the obvious? > >> > >> > I think > >> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way > more > >> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large > >> > scale, > >> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have > >> > some > >> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. > >> > >> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we > >> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and > >> visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that > >> feedback. > >> > >> You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by > >> Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback. > >> > >> It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time > >> on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't > >> want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think > >> we don't want to know about them. > >> > >> Frustratedly yours, > >> > >> Tomeu > >> > >> > kind Regards, > >> > David Van Assche > >> > > >> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning < > dfarn...@sugarlabs.org> > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph > >> >> Derndorfer
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Assche wrote: > I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we need > more data from the field" Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough. Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback. Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it! Regards, Tomeu > I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I > am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I > am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am > saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make sense? > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing > it? > > regards, > David > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche >> wrote: >> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as >> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small >> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening >> > on a >> > larger scale in the third world. >> >> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all? >> >> > And its important to acknowledge the >> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. >> >> And isn't this stating the obvious? >> >> > I think >> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more >> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large >> > scale, >> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have >> > some >> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. >> >> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we >> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and >> visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that >> feedback. >> >> You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by >> Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback. >> >> It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time >> on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't >> want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think >> we don't want to know about them. >> >> Frustratedly yours, >> >> Tomeu >> >> > kind Regards, >> > David Van Assche >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph >> >> Derndorfer wrote: >> >> > Sean DALY schrieb: >> >> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful >> >> >> to >> >> >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to >> >> >> be >> >> >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar >> >> >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large >> >> >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and >> >> >> feedback >> >> >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in >> >> >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth >> >> >> the >> >> >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers. >> >> >> >> >> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... >> >> >> >> Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews. >> >> >> >> In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned >> >> from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger >> >> scaled, less controlled environments. >> >> >> >> Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback >> >> from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from >> >> creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it >> >> states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as >> >> lessons have been learned. >> >> >> >> And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard. >> >> Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the >> >> project. >> >> >> >> david >> >> >> >> > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations >> >> > in >> >> > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar >> >> > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at >> >> > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this >> >> > case >> >> > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in >> >> > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. >> >> > regular >> >> > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 >> >> > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US >> >> > power >> >> > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team >> >> > consisting >> >> > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to >>
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we need more data from the field" I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make sense? Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing it? regards, David On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche > wrote: > > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as > > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small > > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on > a > > larger scale in the third world. > > Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all? > > > And its important to acknowledge the > > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. > > And isn't this stating the obvious? > > > I think > > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more > > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large > scale, > > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have > some > > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. > > I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we > make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and > visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that > feedback. > > You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by > Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback. > > It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time > on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't > want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think > we don't want to know about them. > > Frustratedly yours, > > Tomeu > > > kind Regards, > > David Van Assche > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning > > wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph > >> Derndorfer wrote: > >> > Sean DALY schrieb: > >> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful > to > >> >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be > >> >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar > >> >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large > >> >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback > >> >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in > >> >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the > >> >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers. > >> >> > >> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... > >> > >> Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews. > >> > >> In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned > >> from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger > >> scaled, less controlled environments. > >> > >> Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback > >> from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from > >> creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it > >> states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as > >> lessons have been learned. > >> > >> And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard. > >> Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the > >> project. > >> > >> david > >> > >> > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations > in > >> > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar > >> > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at > >> > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this > case > >> > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in > >> > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. > regular > >> > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 > >> > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power > >> > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team > consisting > >> > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to > >> > maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils > in > >> > a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in > >> > urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and > I > >> > could go on...). > >> > > >> > Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general > >> > nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes, > >> > projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be > >> > able to lea
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche wrote: > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a > larger scale in the third world. Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all? > And its important to acknowledge the > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. And isn't this stating the obvious? > I think > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale, > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that feedback. You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback. It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think we don't want to know about them. Frustratedly yours, Tomeu > kind Regards, > David Van Assche > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph >> Derndorfer wrote: >> > Sean DALY schrieb: >> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to >> >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be >> >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar >> >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large >> >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback >> >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in >> >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the >> >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers. >> >> >> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... >> >> Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews. >> >> In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned >> from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger >> scaled, less controlled environments. >> >> Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback >> from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from >> creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it >> states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as >> lessons have been learned. >> >> And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard. >> Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the >> project. >> >> david >> >> > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in >> > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar >> > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at >> > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case >> > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in >> > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular >> > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 >> > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power >> > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting >> > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to >> > maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in >> > a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in >> > urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I >> > could go on...). >> > >> > Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general >> > nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes, >> > projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be >> > able to learn many things from the GPA pilot. >> > >> > But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the >> > reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much >> > more likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston, >> > London or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those >> > places that have a profile similar to GPA [1]. >> > >> > Just my 2 Nepali Rupees, >> > Christoph >> > >> > [1] "The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community >> > school within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to >> > educate the minds and develop the characters of all students in >> > partnership with families and community. To achieve this GPA provides >>
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a larger scale in the third world. And its important to acknowledge the differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. I think what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale, and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. kind Regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning wrote: > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph > Derndorfer wrote: > > Sean DALY schrieb: > >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to > >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be > >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar > >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large > >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback > >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in > >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the > >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers. > >> > > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... > > Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews. > > In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned > from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger > scaled, less controlled environments. > > Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback > from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from > creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it > states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as > lessons have been learned. > > And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard. > Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the > project. > > david > > > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in > > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar > > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at > > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case > > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in > > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular > > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 > > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power > > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting > > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to > > maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in > > a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in > > urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I > > could go on...). > > > > Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general > > nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes, > > projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be > > able to learn many things from the GPA pilot. > > > > But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the > > reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much > > more likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston, > > London or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those > > places that have a profile similar to GPA [1]. > > > > Just my 2 Nepali Rupees, > > Christoph > > > > [1] "The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community > > school within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to > > educate the minds and develop the characters of all students in > > partnership with families and community. To achieve this GPA provides > > high quality teaching along with a range of social, emotional and > > enrichment programs delivered by means of partnerships with an array of > > community organizations and individuals. Over the past twelve years, GPA > > has developed strong associations with four universities, several health > > and mental health agencies, the YMCA, and various organizations teaching > > visual and performing arts. As one of just 20 pilot schools in the BPS, > > GPA is exempt from district mandates. Therefore, GPA has autonomy in the > > areas of budget and personnel, along with the freedom to implement > > innovative curricula, assessments, and interventions." > > ( > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Gardner_Pilot_Academy) > > > > -- > > Christoph Derndorfer > > co-editor, olpcnews > > url: www.olpcnews.com > > e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com > > > > __
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: > Sean DALY schrieb: >> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers. >> > > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... > > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in a > trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar installations is > a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at worst. Even more so when > the environment between the trial (in this case GPA) and the global > deployments really couldn't be more different in just about every way > imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular year-long classes, > Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 installations in a school > vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power infrastructure vs. Nepali power > infrastructure, having a team consisting of Walter / Greg / Caroline > supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to maybe have a single person who has > used a computer before, 25 pupils in a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a > classroom, users that were raised in urban North America vs. users who don't > have electricity at home, and I could go on...). > > Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general > nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes, projects > like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be able to learn > many things from the GPA pilot. > > But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the > reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much more > likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston, London > or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those places > that have a profile similar to GPA [1]. > > Just my 2 Nepali Rupees, > Christoph > > [1] "The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community school > within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to educate > the minds and develop the characters of all students in partnership with > families and community. To achieve this GPA provides high quality teaching > along with a range of social, emotional and enrichment programs delivered by > means of partnerships with an array of community organizations and > individuals. Over the past twelve years, GPA has developed strong > associations with four universities, several health and mental health > agencies, the YMCA, and various organizations teaching visual and performing > arts. As one of just 20 pilot schools in the BPS, GPA is exempt from > district mandates. Therefore, GPA has autonomy in the areas of budget and > personnel, along with the freedom to implement innovative curricula, > assessments, and interventions." > (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Gardner_Pilot_Academy) > > -- > Christoph Derndorfer > co-editor, olpcnews > url: www.olpcnews.com > e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com > > Christoph, I don't think it was anyone's intention to paint this as an either-or choice between small and large, local and global, rich and poor. As you remark, some of what we have learned at GPA is directly applicable to every deployment (for example, wearing my activity-developer hat, I was inspired to modify Turtle Art to use integer rather than floating-point notation when showing numbers--mundane, but important to any Sugar deployment). You are correct to point out that the GPA trial is different in that it uses SoaS instead of XOs. The whole point of the trial was to discover what issues we might encounter with SoaS deployments. More efficient to uncover them with 25 children in a local summer program than with 1000 children in a remote village. We've filed many tickets that will lead to improved prospects for every SoaS deployment. One may argue the merits of SoaS vs one laptop per child. I still am of the belief that the world could afford to give every child a laptop, but in the meantime, I see SoaS as a stepping stone, both in Boston and Botswana. This too is not an either-or decision. But thanks to both you and Daniel for reminding us that we need to keep the global picture in mind as we pursue our local endeavors. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: > Sean DALY schrieb: >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers. >> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews. In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger scaled, less controlled environments. Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as lessons have been learned. And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard. Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the project. david > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to > maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in > a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in > urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I > could go on...). > > Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general > nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes, > projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be > able to learn many things from the GPA pilot. > > But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the > reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much > more likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston, > London or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those > places that have a profile similar to GPA [1]. > > Just my 2 Nepali Rupees, > Christoph > > [1] "The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community > school within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to > educate the minds and develop the characters of all students in > partnership with families and community. To achieve this GPA provides > high quality teaching along with a range of social, emotional and > enrichment programs delivered by means of partnerships with an array of > community organizations and individuals. Over the past twelve years, GPA > has developed strong associations with four universities, several health > and mental health agencies, the YMCA, and various organizations teaching > visual and performing arts. As one of just 20 pilot schools in the BPS, > GPA is exempt from district mandates. Therefore, GPA has autonomy in the > areas of budget and personnel, along with the freedom to implement > innovative curricula, assessments, and interventions." > (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Gardner_Pilot_Academy) > > -- > Christoph Derndorfer > co-editor, olpcnews > url: www.olpcnews.com > e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
