Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Jim Mulder
IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 06/07/2005 
09:11:25 AM:

> >
> > UCBs use E/SQA. They will reside above or below the line according to
> > the device definition in HCD.
> >
> > Peter Hunkeler
> > Senior IT Specialist, IBM zSeries Technical Sales Support, Switzerland

> E/SQA? I thought they were nucleus resident? Well, "back in the day" at
> least. I wonder because I did not increase the SQA= parameter in
> IEASYSnn when I added all the Shark devices. Or is SQA automagically
> increased?

  UCBs were nucleus resident back when they were defined by IOGEN
and later MVSCP.  When defined in an IODF, they are in SQA/ESQA.

  Based on the contents of the IODF, IPL processing tries to estimate
the SQA/ESQA requirements for UCBs and some other I/O related control
blocks, and adds this to the initial SQA/ESQA size (the default size 
defined in IEAIPL04 plus the INITSQA in LOADxx, if specified).  UCBs 
get built before the SQA= parameter in IEASYSxx is processed (since we 
need the UCBs for devices containing the data sets in the
PARMLIB concatenation in order to open the PARMLIB concatenation). 

Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Jim Mulder
IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 06/07/2005 
08:43:45 AM:

> I tried the D IOS,CONFIG(HSA) command and got a display that did not 
tell  me
> how big HSA is, but rather how much of HSA is available for adding more
> configuration changes, such as more control units or subchannels 
> (more commonly
> pronounced "devices").

> HSA stands for Hardware System Area, not Hardware Storage Area as I 
wrote  in
> my previous post.

> The info on how many HSAs there are, how big each one is, and its 
beginning
> address is all contained in the Service Call Control Block (SCCB), 
mapped by
> SYS1.MACLIB(IHASCCB), and pointed to by CVTSCPIN.  Service Call is a 
special
> SVC (I think it is 122) in MVS that invokes the Diagnose instruction to 
read
> hardware configuration info from the floppy disk.  I learned about it by
> perusing some RMF microfiche in 1987.

> The SCCB also has info on various processor features that are installed,
> such as the Performed Lock Operation (PLO) instruction.

> I don't remember any software that displays the SCCB info.   TMON/MVS 
might.
> It should be easy to build code to find and display the  contents or to 
find
> it in a system dump that includes (E)CSA and (E)SQA.

> Since the beginning address of each HSA is a four-byte value (SCCBAHSA), 
it
> appears that all HSAs are allocated from the top down of the 2GB bar.

   D M=HSA   displays any HSA ranges which are described in the SCCB. 
However, in LPAR mode, the SCCB for a logical partition describes only
HSA ranges which are part of a storage increment in that zone.  Usually 
there are none of those, so you will see

D M=HSA 
IEE174I 17.06.09 DISPLAY M 715
HSA STATUS 
NO HSA IN MAIN STORE 


In the archives, see also:

http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9902&L=ibm-main&P=R70841&I=1
http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9902&L=ibm-main&P=R71439&I=1

Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY


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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Raymond Noal
Try - 

D IOS,CONFIG(ALL)

- OR - 

D IOS,CONFIG(HSA)

It will show you the available space in the HSA.

HITACHI 
 DATA SYSTEMS

Raymond E. Noal
Lab Manager, San Diego Facility
Office: (858) 537 - 3268
Cell:   (858) 248 - 1172


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Bill Fairchild
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Additional DASD devices

 
 
-Original Message-
From: Werner Kuehnel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:15:54 +0200
Subject: Additional DASD devices


Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add let's
say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration? 
I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK V2XF
with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went down by 1
MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this. 
 
Werner 
 

 
 
I/O devices, channels, control units, etc., are described by control blocks
that are in the part of central storage called the Hardware Storage Area
(HSA), which is allocated from the top down.  These control blocks are
normally accessed and accessible only by the channel subsystem.  Most of
them are not documented in the Principles of Operations.  I don't remember
if there is any MVS operator command that can display how large the HSA is.
 
Bill Fairchild
 
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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Raymond Noal
It sounds like you told the HCD to allocate the UCB's below the line as
opposed to above. Check your specifications for the STK DASD you mention. 

HITACHI 
 DATA SYSTEMS

Raymond E. Noal
Lab Manager, San Diego Facility
Office: (858) 537 - 3268
Cell:   (858) 248 - 1172


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Werner Kuehnel
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Additional DASD devices

Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add 
let's say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration?
I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK 
V2XF with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went 
down by 1 MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this.

Werner

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Werner Kuehnel
IMD GmbH (Mannheimer Versicherung)
Mannheim - Germany

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Ted MacNEIL
...
Well, yes, but "once bitten, twice shy". Especially when the Windows
weenies are __constantly__ jumping on any type of "problem" in the
mainframe arena
...

Sometimes, you have no choice.
We had some old CICS programmes that didn't know what an address greater than 
24-bit.
Adding the Shark in would have cost too much below.

So, we started with the existing DASD and moved them all above.

-teD
(The secret to success is sincerity.
If you can fake that,
you've got it made!)

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Jon Brock
Speaking as one who was bitten by the issue described in II12396, you might 
want to check your INITSQA parameter if you plan on adding a bunch of new 
devices to a production system.

Jon




Well, I did some tests and added 4 CUs with 1024 devices to our test system.
The output from D IOS,CONFIG(HSA) was:

>>Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add
>>let's say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration?
>>I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK
>>V2XF with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went
>>down by 1 MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this.


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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Werner Kuehnel

Well, I did some tests and added 4 CUs with 1024 devices to our test system.
The output from D IOS,CONFIG(HSA) was:

IOS506I 14.28.48 I/O CONFIG DATA 996   
HARDWARE SYSTEM AREA AVAILABLE FOR CONFIGURATION CHANGES   
41 PHYSICAL CONTROL UNITS 
  1126 SUBCHANNELS FOR SHARED CHANNEL PATHS   
   282 SUBCHANNELS FOR UNSHARED CHANNEL PATHS 
32 LOGICAL CONTROL UNITS FOR SHARED CHANNEL PATHS 
 9 LOGICAL CONTROL UNITS FOR UNSHARED CHANNEL PATHS


and after activating new IODF:

IOS506I 15.03.43 I/O CONFIG DATA 078   
HARDWARE SYSTEM AREA AVAILABLE FOR CONFIGURATION CHANGES   
37 PHYSICAL CONTROL UNITS 
   102 SUBCHANNELS FOR SHARED CHANNEL PATHS   
   282 SUBCHANNELS FOR UNSHARED CHANNEL PATHS 
28 LOGICAL CONTROL UNITS FOR SHARED CHANNEL PATHS 
 9 LOGICAL CONTROL UNITS FOR UNSHARED CHANNEL PATHS


physical and logical CUs are reduced by 4, shared subchannels by 1024.

The UCBs are in SQA and ESQA, according to the manual 112 bytes below 
the line, 88 bytes above per UCB:

Extended SQA  018E3000  042CDFFF42924K  24% used
SQA 00E43000  00FCBFFF  1572K  33% used  (519K)

and after activating new IODF:
Extended SQA  018E3000  042CDFFF42924K  25% used
SQA 00E43000  00FCBFFF  1572K  41% used (645K)

After defining the 1024 devices with LOCANY=YES and activating the 
change, SQA usage went down back to 33%, ESQA went up to 26%.


Thanks to all who responded,
Werner


Peter Hunkeler wrote:


Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add
let's say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration?
I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK
V2XF with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went
down by 1 MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this.
   



UCBs use E/SQA. They will reside above or below the line according to
the device definition in HCD.

Peter Hunkeler
Senior IT Specialist, IBM zSeries Technical Sales Support, Switzerland

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Werner Kuehnel
IMD GmbH (Mannheimer Versicherung)
Mannheim - Germany

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Peter Hunkeler
>E/SQA? I thought they were nucleus resident? Well, "back in the day" 
>at
>least. I wonder because I did not increase the SQA= parameter in
>IEASYSnn when I added all the Shark devices. Or is SQA automagically
>increased?

They were moved to (E)SQA in support if dynamic I/O, I think. If you
add devices and do not IPL with CLPA, your available SQA will shrink
since PLPA boundary is kept constant. With CLPA, the SQA= parameter
from IEASYSxx is honoured and PLPA is moved, if necessary.

Peter Hunkeler
Senior IT Specialist, IBM zSeries Technical Sales Support, Switzerland

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Salah Balboul

Bill Fairchild wrote:

I tried the D IOS,CONFIG(HSA) command and got a display that did not tell  me 
how big HSA is, but rather how much of HSA is available for adding more  
configuration changes, such as more control units or subchannels (more commonly  
pronounced "devices").


HSA stands for Hardware System Area, not Hardware Storage Area as I wrote  in 
my previous post.


The info on how many HSAs there are, how big each one is, and its beginning  
address is all contained in the Service Call Control Block (SCCB), mapped by  
SYS1.MACLIB(IHASCCB), and pointed to by CVTSCPIN.  Service Call is a  special 
SVC (I think it is 122) in MVS that invokes the Diagnose instruction to  read 
hardware configuration info from the floppy disk.  I learned about it  by 
perusing some RMF microfiche in 1987.


The SCCB also has info on various processor features that are installed,  
such as the Performed Lock Operation (PLO) instruction.


I don't remember any software that displays the SCCB info.   TMON/MVS might.  
It should be easy to build code to find and display the  contents or to find 
it in a system dump that includes (E)CSA and (E)SQA.


Since the beginning address of each HSA is a four-byte value (SCCBAHSA), it  
appears that all HSAs are allocated from the top down of the 2GB bar.


Bill Fairchild

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Use the HMC to find out the total HSA allocated.

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread McKown, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 7:00 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Additional DASD devices
> 
> 
> ...
> We just got a new Shark. I had to put the UCBs above the 
> line. I used to
> have them below the line due to some OEM products not tolerating them
> being above the line
> ...
> 
> That would be pretty old releases of ISV software.
> 
> We had UCB's above the line for quite a long time (in my former life).
> 
> 
> -teD

Well, yes, but "once bitten, twice shy". Especially when the Windows
weenies are __constantly__ jumping on any type of "problem" in the
mainframe arena and lieing about how Windows just doesn't have "those
problems". Well, "those problems" is not a lie. Windows has an entirely
different set of problems. But they don't count, of course.


--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
UICI Insurance Center
Information Technology

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Ted MacNEIL
...
We just got a new Shark. I had to put the UCBs above the line. I used to
have them below the line due to some OEM products not tolerating them
being above the line
...

That would be pretty old releases of ISV software.

We had UCB's above the line for quite a long time (in my former life).


-teD
(The secret to success is sincerity.
If you can fake that,
you've got it made!)

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread McKown, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Hunkeler
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:06 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Additional DASD devices
> 
> 



>  
> UCBs use E/SQA. They will reside above or below the line according to 
> the device definition in HCD.
> 
> Peter Hunkeler
> Senior IT Specialist, IBM zSeries Technical Sales Support, Switzerland

E/SQA? I thought they were nucleus resident? Well, "back in the day" at
least. I wonder because I did not increase the SQA= parameter in
IEASYSnn when I added all the Shark devices. Or is SQA automagically
increased?


--
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Senior Systems Programmer
UICI Insurance Center
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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Peter Hunkeler
>Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add 
>let's say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration?
>I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK 
>V2XF with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went 
>down by 1 MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this. 
 
UCBs use E/SQA. They will reside above or below the line according to 
the device definition in HCD.

Peter Hunkeler
Senior IT Specialist, IBM zSeries Technical Sales Support, Switzerland

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread McKown, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Werner Kuehnel
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 5:16 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Additional DASD devices
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add 
> let's say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD 
> configuration?
> I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK 
> V2XF with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went 
> down by 1 MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this.
> 
> Werner

Probably having the UCBs below the line. Note that the size of the HSA
has absolutely NOTHING to do with the size of the private region. Oh,
I'm assuming you mean the below the line private, not the above the line
private.

We just got a new Shark. I had to put the UCBs above the line. I used to
have them below the line due to some OEM products not tolerating them
being above the line.


--
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Senior Systems Programmer
UICI Insurance Center
Information Technology

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Bill Fairchild
I tried the D IOS,CONFIG(HSA) command and got a display that did not tell  me 
how big HSA is, but rather how much of HSA is available for adding more  
configuration changes, such as more control units or subchannels (more commonly 
 
pronounced "devices").
 
HSA stands for Hardware System Area, not Hardware Storage Area as I wrote  in 
my previous post.
 
The info on how many HSAs there are, how big each one is, and its beginning  
address is all contained in the Service Call Control Block (SCCB), mapped by  
SYS1.MACLIB(IHASCCB), and pointed to by CVTSCPIN.  Service Call is a  special 
SVC (I think it is 122) in MVS that invokes the Diagnose instruction to  read 
hardware configuration info from the floppy disk.  I learned about it  by 
perusing some RMF microfiche in 1987.
 
The SCCB also has info on various processor features that are installed,  
such as the Performed Lock Operation (PLO) instruction.
 
I don't remember any software that displays the SCCB info.   TMON/MVS might.  
It should be easy to build code to find and display the  contents or to find 
it in a system dump that includes (E)CSA and (E)SQA.
 
Since the beginning address of each HSA is a four-byte value (SCCBAHSA), it  
appears that all HSAs are allocated from the top down of the 2GB bar.
 
Bill Fairchild

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread John Cassidy
/D IOS,CONFIG(HSA) in SDSF will give you the amount of the hardware system
area (HSA) that is available to perform configuration changes.


This is an excerpt from the z/OS 1.6 System Commands.





>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Werner Kuehnel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Sent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:15:54 +0200
> Subject: Additional DASD devices
>
>
> Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add let's
> say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration?
> I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK V2XF
> with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went down by 1
> MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this.
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
> I/O devices, channels, control units, etc., are described by control
> blocks that are in the part of central storage called the Hardware Storage
> Area (HSA), which is allocated from the top down.  These control blocks
> are normally accessed and accessible only by the channel subsystem.  Most
> of them are not documented in the Principles of Operations.  I don't
> remember if there is any MVS operator command that can display how large
> the HSA is.
>
> Bill Fairchild
>
> --
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John Cassidy Dipl-Ing

Schleswigstr. 7

51065 Cologne

Tel: +41 76 4198 658
EU

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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread salah Balboul
The command would be: D IOS,CONFIG(HSA)

Salah

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Bill Fairchild
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Additional DASD devices

 
 
-Original Message-
From: Werner Kuehnel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:15:54 +0200
Subject: Additional DASD devices


Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add let's
say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration? 
I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK V2XF
with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went down by 1
MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this. 
 
Werner 
 

 
 
I/O devices, channels, control units, etc., are described by control blocks
that are in the part of central storage called the Hardware Storage Area
(HSA), which is allocated from the top down.  These control blocks are
normally accessed and accessible only by the channel subsystem.  Most of
them are not documented in the Principles of Operations.  I don't remember
if there is any MVS operator command that can display how large the HSA is.
 
Bill Fairchild
 
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Re: Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Bill Fairchild
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Werner Kuehnel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:15:54 +0200
Subject: Additional DASD devices


Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add let's say 
4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration? 
I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK V2XF with 
the maximum of addresses, the available private region went down by 1 MB. 
Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this. 
 
Werner 
 

 
 
I/O devices, channels, control units, etc., are described by control blocks 
that are in the part of central storage called the Hardware Storage Area (HSA), 
which is allocated from the top down.  These control blocks are normally 
accessed and accessible only by the channel subsystem.  Most of them are not 
documented in the Principles of Operations.  I don't remember if there is any 
MVS operator command that can display how large the HSA is.
 
Bill Fairchild
 
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Additional DASD devices

2005-06-07 Thread Werner Kuehnel
Can someone tell me please, what storage areas will be used if I add 
let's say 4096 DASD devices (new DASD subsystem) to my HCD configuration?
I seem to recall a situation months ago, when we defined our new STK 
V2XF with the maximum of addresses, the available private region went 
down by 1 MB. Unfortunately I can't remember what areas caused this.


Werner

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Werner Kuehnel
IMD GmbH (Mannheimer Versicherung)
Mannheim - Germany

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