Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Bruce Black wrote: If you have DFDSS there is an option to reblock the datasets that are copied and its reasonably fast. I could be wrong in this but the FDR people didn't have the option. Ed, luckily you are wrong. Our dataset restore has the option to reblock PS and PO dataset. Other dataset types like DA often have dependancies that prevent reblocking Bruce, Thanks. I Never saw this "option" going through the doc. I am happy to hear that it exists. Ed -- Bruce Black Senior Software Developer Innovation Data Processing -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Clearly the biggest issue is the geometry change from 47K to 56K; so you can’t use any “physical” type utilities (E.g. Full Dump & Restore) to perform the data move unless you configure the 3390 devices in 3380 emulation mode. Ya know, that is not completely true. As long as the output track will hold all the records on the input track, most access methods will support a track-by-track copy. VSAM usually will not, but does in some circumstances. PO datasets are an issue because one of the quirky differences between 3380 and 3390 is that the 3380 holds 1 more PDS directory block on a track than the 3390. So if the 3380 PDS has more than 1 track of directory (47 blocks I believe), then the track copy will fail -- Bruce Black Senior Software Developer Innovation Data Processing -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
If you have DFDSS there is an option to reblock the datasets that are copied and its reasonably fast. I could be wrong in this but the FDR people didn't have the option. Ed, luckily you are wrong. Our dataset restore has the option to reblock PS and PO dataset. Other dataset types like DA often have dependancies that prevent reblocking -- Bruce Black Senior Software Developer Innovation Data Processing -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Patrick, Most DBA would know this, so he can prepare a list and have you check it, or vice versa. This is good old maker/checker, something that anyone that has spent time in banking will be familiar with. It's not like you are doing the job for the DBA - it is helping him. Would you rather give him a list of files on 3380s, or hold hands at 4:30 in the morning? It's not like this is rocket science... Ron > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mullen, Patrick > Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2006 11:37 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P > > If your Adabas DBA needs you to compile a list of the files that > constitute the Adabas databases, then it's time to hire a new DBA. Or, > at the very least, time to send them on a course. > > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
If your Adabas DBA needs you to compile a list of the files that constitute the Adabas databases, then it's time to hire a new DBA. Or, at the very least, time to send them on a course. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List I agree. ADABAS is probably a better example than IDMS because IDMS doesn't have this problem. Of course, if you know it is a problem for ADABAS you can use SMF to compile a list of all datasets that have been opened by ADABAS and give this to the DBA to use as a checklist. Then you don't have to hold hands with the ADABAS DBA at 4:30 in the morning... Ron -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Wally's purpose? To quote Wally, "That coffee cup does not get around by itself." That is just so Dilbert... What is Wally's purpose in life? Now why didn't we just do this for Y2K? Thanks, Fletch -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Radoslaw, I agree. ADABAS is probably a better example than IDMS because IDMS doesn't have this problem. Of course, if you know it is a problem for ADABAS you can use SMF to compile a list of all datasets that have been opened by ADABAS and give this to the DBA to use as a checklist. Then you don't have to hold hands with the ADABAS DBA at 4:30 in the morning... Ron > The same apply to Adabas database datasets. Adabas uses their own access > method (ADAM), which is geometry-specific. > > In general I would say it is very good idea to *know* one's own > datasets. Know means what is the purpose of given dataset, what > application does use it, etc. Yes, it is possible even in case of > hundreds thousands datasets. > Otherwise - maybe half of them is just not needed anymore since 1989 ? > > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Ed Gould wrote: On Mar 20, 2006, at 7:49 PM, Ron and Jenny Hawkins wrote: SNIP--- You can use DCOLLECT to audit the attributes of your files. You can find and DA files here and check if they need any special attention. You can also use this DCOLLECT to identify your largest files. Just focusing on the largest files that make up 80% of allocated space will get the most gain for the least effort. Ron, Good idea.. but not usually guaranteed. For some reason (historical??) people who created BDAM files usually have dsorg=PS or none specified. I have seen quite a few of those over the years (including Panvalet libraries). I have not had the occasion to look at IDMS databases lately but last time I did they were marked as PS. So don't believe everything you see in the vtoc or SMF or decollect. The same apply to Adabas database datasets. Adabas uses their own access method (ADAM), which is geometry-specific. In general I would say it is very good idea to *know* one's own datasets. Know means what is the purpose of given dataset, what application does use it, etc. Yes, it is possible even in case of hundreds thousands datasets. Otherwise - maybe half of them is just not needed anymore since 1989 ? -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
On Mar 21, 2006, at 6:45 AM, Ambat Ravi Nair wrote: IDMS has been able to do VSAM as well ... - ravi. This was a while ago as the 3380 to 3390 conversion implies. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Ed, That is just so Dilbert... What is Wally's purpose in life? Now why didn't we just do this for Y2K? Assuming you actually knew everyone that you would have to send an e-mail to so your ass was well and truly covered, how would you know what to tell them without actually doing any research? Would you simply say "We are converting from 3380 to 3390 in 65 days. Please convert all your applications by then." In the CYA realm that would be like wiping your butt with confetti! If you don't have time for the luxury of research, why not hire a contractor from WIPRO to do it. It would cost less than having a outage wouldn't it? Ron I'm sure you proudly put this migration technique in your resume! > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Ed Gould > Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2006 3:57 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P > > On Mar 20, 2006, at 11:39 PM, Ron and Jenny Hawkins wrote: > > > Ed, > > > > Agreed, and that is why SMF records are your second best friend :) > > > ---SNIP--- > > Its always easy to sit back and spend the copious amounts of time > researching for this stuff. I have never had the luxury of having the > time. Sure some amount of research is needed but to spin through a > years worth of SMF tapes was a luxury I did not have. I found if I > knew a conversion was eminent (1-2 months) I would issue a memo and > if they didn't correct the data sets I would move them anyway. > > Sure IDMS wouldn't correctly come up but I had CYA'd myself. The > people knew I didn't send out these memo's unless it was A. going to > happen and B. The problem would be their problem if the files > weren't correctly identified and fixed before hand. C. The next time > they would have to be in at 3AM with me to hand hold their special > data sets. > > That stopped a lot of griping and finger pointing. > > Ed > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
On Mar 20, 2006, at 11:39 PM, Ron and Jenny Hawkins wrote: Ed, Agreed, and that is why SMF records are your second best friend :) ---SNIP--- Its always easy to sit back and spend the copious amounts of time researching for this stuff. I have never had the luxury of having the time. Sure some amount of research is needed but to spin through a years worth of SMF tapes was a luxury I did not have. I found if I knew a conversion was eminent (1-2 months) I would issue a memo and if they didn't correct the data sets I would move them anyway. Sure IDMS wouldn't correctly come up but I had CYA'd myself. The people knew I didn't send out these memo's unless it was A. going to happen and B. The problem would be their problem if the files weren't correctly identified and fixed before hand. C. The next time they would have to be in at 3AM with me to hand hold their special data sets. That stopped a lot of griping and finger pointing. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
IDMS has been able to do VSAM as well ... - ravi. Ed Gould wrote: On Mar 20, 2006, at 7:49 PM, Ron and Jenny Hawkins wrote: Ron, Good idea.. but not usually guaranteed. For some reason (historical??) people who created BDAM files usually have dsorg=PS or none specified. I have seen quite a few of those over the years (including Panvalet libraries). I have not had the occasion to look at IDMS databases lately but last time I did they were marked as PS. So don't believe everything you see in the vtoc or SMF or decollect. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Ed, Agreed, and that is why SMF records are your second best friend :) IDMS are marked as PS because they switch from BDAM to EXCP around 13 years ago (Version 12, or maybe already in V10). I use to use DFSORT to split up heavily accessed tables! You can also use the 14/15 records to check the access method. If you find a suspect access method then you can tie the 14/15 record to the type 30 subtype 4 record and get the program name. Sure you won't catch everything, but you should find damn near almost everything. Ron > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Ed Gould > Sent: Tuesday, 21 March 2006 11:49 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P > > On Mar 20, 2006, at 7:49 PM, Ron and Jenny Hawkins wrote: > > > Ron, > > Good idea.. but not usually guaranteed. For some reason > (historical??) people who created BDAM files usually have dsorg=PS or > none specified. I have seen quite a few of those over the years > (including Panvalet libraries). I have not had the occasion to look > at IDMS databases lately but last time I did they were marked as PS. > So don't believe everything you see in the vtoc or SMF or decollect. > > Ed > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
On Mar 20, 2006, at 7:49 PM, Ron and Jenny Hawkins wrote: SNIP--- You can use DCOLLECT to audit the attributes of your files. You can find and DA files here and check if they need any special attention. You can also use this DCOLLECT to identify your largest files. Just focusing on the largest files that make up 80% of allocated space will get the most gain for the least effort. Ron, Good idea.. but not usually guaranteed. For some reason (historical??) people who created BDAM files usually have dsorg=PS or none specified. I have seen quite a few of those over the years (including Panvalet libraries). I have not had the occasion to look at IDMS databases lately but last time I did they were marked as PS. So don't believe everything you see in the vtoc or SMF or decollect. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Willie, It's been a long, long time since I did this, but there are a few extra weapons in the arsenal nowadays. There is not much that is going to actually "break" when you go from 3380 to 3390. VSAM will look after itself and flat files will have wasted space. The main things that will break are DA files. First thing would be to think about your default device geometry in SMS. Your allocation will be influenced by this. I would suggest leaving it as 3380 until your conversion is complete, and then change to 3390. DCOLLECT is your friend. SMF records are your second best friend. You can use DCOLLECT to audit the attributes of your files. You can find and DA files here and check if they need any special attention. You can also use this DCOLLECT to identify your largest files. Just focusing on the largest files that make up 80% of allocated space will get the most gain for the least effort. Once you have found the largest files in DCOLLECT, use the Type 14, 15, and 6n records to find the job that allocates them. Replace the BLKSIZE parm with the DSORG parm and they will be created with SDB. The small datasets can be an exercise for a later time. Ron > > On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:56:12 -0800, willie bunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >Hi, > > > > I am seeking help regarding the conversion from 3380 to 3390. I > performed this in 1992. I scanned the archives but there was a negligible > amount of information. Can anybody please help me? Any advice will be > greatfully appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
On Mar 20, 2006, at 6:38 PM, willie bunter wrote: Thanks Jack for the suggestion. Too bad the environment doesn't have HSM. Your idea sounds like a great idea. Out of curiosity what would happend if the files were to be recalled which volume would it be recalled to? Would I need to keep the old volsers in order for the recall to work? If you have DFDSS there is an option to reblock the datasets that are copied and its reasonably fast. I could be wrong in this but the FDR people didn't have the option. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Thanks Jack for the suggestion. Too bad the environment doesn't have HSM. Your idea sounds like a great idea. Out of curiosity what would happend if the files were to be recalled which volume would it be recalled to? Would I need to keep the old volsers in order for the recall to work? Jack Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: if you have hsm up, an option is to migrate/recall and let hsm reblock (or just migrate). dss will also reblock src files so you could selectivly dss copy. Jack Kelly LA Systems @ US Courts x 202-502-2390 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
if you have hsm up, an option is to migrate/recall and let hsm reblock (or just migrate). dss will also reblock src files so you could selectivly dss copy. Jack Kelly LA Systems @ US Courts x 202-502-2390 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Hi Willie, Clearly the biggest issue is the geometry change from 47K to 56K; so you cant use any physical type utilities (E.g. Full Dump & Restore) to perform the data move unless you configure the 3390 devices in 3380 emulation mode. The major issue will regard whether there are any programs/JCL/CLIST,REXX et al that have hard-coded block sizes that are device dependant. This should be easily identifiable by scanning the entire source portfolio, presuming you know where it all is. If your shop has stood still for a long-time and there really has been nothing but running the workload that never fails, then configuring the 3390 devices in 3380 emulation mode might be the way forward. Most of use old-timers will remember going from 3330-3350-3380 and at the 3380 stage we probably decided enough was enough so we removed device dependencies; but then along came DFSMS and 3390, the use of FBA RAID DASD subsystems emulating CKD/ECKD and so weve never had another DASD geometry change since then Best regards, UK Mikey. On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:56:12 -0800, willie bunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi, > > I am seeking help regarding the conversion from 3380 to 3390. I performed this in 1992. I scanned the archives but there was a negligible amount of information. Can anybody please help me? Any advice will be greatfully appreciated. > > Thanks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Willie, Either use SMS by allocating new 3390 pools to receive the NEW allocations and, as a result, do a lot of the migration by attrition. Or use DFDSS/FDR to move the datasets logically to where you want them. If the 3380s are SMS managed, add 3390s to the pool and set the 3380s to DISNEW. A lot more info is needed for you to share with us, as an accurate answer depends on your current environment. Bob Richards VP, Enterprise Technologist Enterprise Technology Infrastructure SunTrust Banks, Inc. (404) 575-2798 Seeing beyond money (sm) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of willie bunter Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 7:56 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject:Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P Hi, I am seeking help regarding the conversion from 3380 to 3390. I performed this in 1992. I scanned the archives but there was a negligible amount of information. Can anybody please help me? Any advice will be greatfully appreciated. Thanks. - Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Seeing Beyond Money is a service mark of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Data conversion from 3380 to 3390 - H E L P
Hi, I am seeking help regarding the conversion from 3380 to 3390. I performed this in 1992. I scanned the archives but there was a negligible amount of information. Can anybody please help me? Any advice will be greatfully appreciated. Thanks. - Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
