Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
My 0.02$: If you decide to drop service contract then you should look for alternative service provider. IBM is not monopolist in servicing IBM hardware. The same apply to HDS, EMC, STK. Sometimes it is worth to purchase spare equipment in advance. If your tape drive fails you can simply swap the device. Fast and inexpensive. Failed device can be fixed or another device is to be bought. Last but not least: spare devices should be cheaper than service fee. z/800 is available for peanuts, like 3590 drives. Such approach requires more attention from user, but it can be *much* cheaper. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2008 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA wynosi 118.642.672 zote i zosta w caoci wpacony. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
Timothy Sipples wrote: And, as someone already alluded to, off maintenance means you're last in the queue. So, for example, if there's an earthquake -- I've heard they happen in California -- that shakes some parts silly, you'll be dead last in line for repair. Which is entirely fair, of course, but something to be aware of. While I agree that service contract is definitely better for good sleep, the argument above is miss. I'm pretty sure that in case of real earthquake no service provider will be able to meet fix times. BTW: I vaguely remain that earthaquakes are valid excuses for SLA. Last but not least: sometimes customers do not believe in service fix times, but treat the contract as kind of insurance, defense, I took care excuse. I'm aware of contracts in Poland with fix time 4h, when travel time of CE is at least 2,5h... Both parties (provider and customer) are aware of that. I'm also aware of fix time 24h contract and real fix time 9 months g. IBM 3494. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2008 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA wynosi 118.642.672 zote i zosta w caoci wpacony. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
And, as someone already alluded to, off maintenance means you're last in the queue. So, for example, if there's an earthquake -- I've heard they happen in California -- that shakes some parts silly, you'll be dead last in line for repair. Which is entirely fair, of course, but something to be aware of. In certain cases you may be able to cover a maintenance gap by turning it into a Disaster Recovery (DR) problem. This assumes of course you have DR, and that it works, and that the DR terms and conditions are appropriate, and, and, etc., etc. As a rough initial guess, start by assuming that your primary data center is destroyed along with all the IT workers inside (and at least half the ones outside, who are busy trying to find out if their relatives are OK), then see what happens in your thought exercise -- or, better yet, in your full dress rehearsal. Yes, do be careful about off maintenance and residual value. The former negatively impacts the latter.) Try to find a good and productive home for the z800. For example, do you have a community college that could conduct vocational training -- and benefit your local economy? (You have at least one at quick check: Sacramento City College. And they have degree programs in Computer Information Sciences.) IBM would be delighted to support that, and such a transfer would be much more rewarding to the city (and far more visionary) than any residual you'd get, especially an off maintenance residual. Think about this as cheap insurance as well. If you ever have to resurrect a program, or a tape, or whatever, your old machine will be nearby over at SCC (but incredibly useful to them), and you can reactivate commercial licensing if need be. You can get more details on the System z Academic Initiative (and contacts) here: http://www.ibm.com/university/scholars/products/zseries Another great option is Sacramento State, which is trying to develop their enterprise computing curriculum. I'm sure Professor Du Zhang would be absolutely thrilled if you would contact him to discuss the possibility of transferring the z800 (and storage and tape) there. Click on Participating Schools, and you can find his e-mail address. Or, better yet, give him a phone call -- he's local! Anyway, this *should* be a relatively easy sell. (I bet the mayor wouldn't mind a newspaper story or two about a city donation to Sacramento State or SCC, to train students for high-tech enterprise computing jobs.) Everybody wins, including especially the city's economy. Am I naive? I sure hope not. Good luck! - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
Thanks all for the information on hardware maintenance, thoughts, and insightful suggestions on disposal. I will certainly miss this community. Best Regards, Peggy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
I wrote: And, as someone already alluded to, off maintenance means you're last in the queue. So, for example, if there's an earthquake -- I've heard they happen in California -- that shakes some parts silly, you'll be dead last in line for repair. Which is entirely fair, of course, but something to be aware of. Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: While I agree that service contract is definitely better for good sleep, the argument above is miss. I'm pretty sure that in case of real earthquake no service provider will be able to meet fix times. BTW: I vaguely remain that earthaquakes are valid excuses for SLA. Please read my comments again. I didn't say anything about meeting repair SLAs or not, i.e. how fast the repair queue gets emptied. What I said was that if you don't have a maintenance contract you will be last in line in the repair queue. That's unquestionably true, and being last in line matters most when the queue is deep. One entirely predictable way the queue could get very deep in Sacramento, California, is if (or rather, when) there's a major earthquake. To elaborate slightly, this is exactly the sort of scenario where critical government functions should be restored to service first, not last. So, in my opinion, going off maintenance is a non-trivial risk. (It's unquestionably non-zero.) However, I do not know all the details and cannot assess all the risks remotely. I referred to one way those risks could be mitigated at least somewhat: good DR., - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Drop hardware maintenance contract
We are soon at the end of a decommissioning project (very, very sad). Our hardware maintenance contract (z800, Shark, and ATL/VTS) expires 2/1/09, but we may not be able to decommission until a few months after that. Does anyone have ideas on ballpark figures on costs associated with hardware failures without a contract? - i.e. a disk drive failure, vs. a tape drive failure, vs. any z800 failure - and on-site call rates?? I am waiting to talk to IBM directly on this, but of course my management wants the information NOW, so thanks for any insight... Peggy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
I don't know for sure. I've always heard that time and materials was at least $250/hour, two hour minimum, and low in priority behind customers paying maintenance. We did run some old 3590 drives for several months after we dropped maintenance. I think 2 or 3 of the 8 had failed before we finished all conversion from cartridge to virtual. So, it's a gamble. And the hardware is pretty reliable :) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State Univsersity -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peggy Andrews Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Drop hardware maintenance contract We are soon at the end of a decommissioning project (very, very sad). Our hardware maintenance contract (z800, Shark, and ATL/VTS) expires 2/1/09, but we may not be able to decommission until a few months after that. Does anyone have ideas on ballpark figures on costs associated with hardware failures without a contract? - i.e. a disk drive failure, vs. a tape drive failure, vs. any z800 failure - and on-site call rates?? I am waiting to talk to IBM directly on this, but of course my management wants the information NOW, so thanks for any insight... Peggy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
If you let the service lapse on the equipment you have now, for the equipment to be sold, or put back on maintenance, there could be a charge to recertify the equipment to be eligible to go back on a maintenance contract. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peggy Andrews Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Drop hardware maintenance contract We are soon at the end of a decommissioning project (very, very sad). Our hardware maintenance contract (z800, Shark, and ATL/VTS) expires 2/1/09, but we may not be able to decommission until a few months after that. Does anyone have ideas on ballpark figures on costs associated with hardware failures without a contract? - i.e. a disk drive failure, vs. a tape drive failure, vs. any z800 failure - and on-site call rates?? I am waiting to talk to IBM directly on this, but of course my management wants the information NOW, so thanks for any insight... Peggy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Drop hardware maintenance contract
2008/12/8 Peggy Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED]: We are soon at the end of a decommissioning project (very, very sad). Our hardware maintenance contract (z800, Shark, and ATL/VTS) expires 2/1/09, but we may not be able to decommission until a few months after that. Does anyone have ideas on ballpark figures on costs associated with hardware failures without a contract? - i.e. a disk drive failure, vs. a tape drive failure, vs. any z800 failure - and on-site call rates?? In my limited and not too current experience, uncontracted service calls can be *very* expensive. With a contract you are covered for parts as well as labour, and either one can go up really fast if you are paying time and materials. IIRC on our old MP3000, the time materials to replace a single drive was well over $5000, where the maintenance contract was iirc, $1000/month or so. Sounds like a no brainer to not take the contract in that case, but you have to look at the actual failure rate for your device, and whether the parts are easily available to non-contract customers. You also need to consider the residual value when you do ship the hardware out the door, and whether it will be significantly lower if it's been off maintenance. On the other, other hand, the vendor has you over a barrel to some extent, so if you want a short maintenance agreement you will pay for it, particularly if there's nothing in the pipeline for the vendor. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
