Re: Semi-OT: Turkeys and MVS wasRe: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?(OT)
-- Having grown up in farm country, I can tell you that domestic turkeys are the absolute stupidest creatures on God's green Earth! You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it! The wild turkey is apparently a bird to be reckoned with. The turkey also was the symbol of the SHARE MVS project for many years. -- The wild turkey is indeed a very wily bird, as any hunter can tell you. Let's end this OT thread. ;-) Sorry I started it.. -- Rick -- Remember that if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
It has been awhile since someone has referenced the Mainframe site: http://mainframe.typepad.com/ Timothy Sipples has placed a nice post out there called How Many Mainframes Do You Need? It is worth the read, even for us old, crusty types who sometime forget we didn't always know everything! smile Bob - Robert B. Richards(Bob) US Office of Personnel Management 1900 E Street NW Room: BH04L Washington, D.C. 20415 Phone: (202) 606-1195 Email: robert.richa...@opm.gov mailto:robert.richa...@opm.gov - -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
Q: How many telephone poles does it take to reach the moon? A: One if it's long enough. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
Then there is the server world concept: How many chickens does it take to run your business. Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 cell: 770-666-7969 email: daniel_mclaugh...@us.crawco.com web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 03/23/2009 07:17 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? -- Information from the mail header --- Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Poster: Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? --- Q: How many telephone poles does it take to reach the moon? A: One if it's long enough. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Daniel McLaughlin Then there is the server world concept: How many chickens does it take to run your business. Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
The more the better ... Unfortunately a shrinking pond is ultimately going to do none of us any good. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
The thrust of my z10 User Experience segment in Austin is that it's time to rethink the 'classic' mainframe configuration. Insistence on multiple CECs to provide 'adjacent' failover in case of planned or unplanned outages leads to chronic problems of load balancing. A single machine that (1) you can trust and (2) can be extensively reconfigured without a POR, immediately solves the balancing problems while still promising stellar availability. The z10 is such a machine. http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Austin/S2839SR192048.pdf . . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com Richards, Robert B. Robert.Richards@ To OPM.GOV IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent by: IBM cc Mainframe Discussion List Subject ibm-m...@bama.ua How Many Mainframes Do You Need? .edu 03/23/2009 03:21 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu It has been awhile since someone has referenced the Mainframe site: http://mainframe.typepad.com/ Timothy Sipples has placed a nice post out there called How Many Mainframes Do You Need? It is worth the read, even for us old, crusty types who sometime forget we didn't always know everything! smile Bob snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly! - Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati sorry, but somebody had to say it. e.s. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?(OT)
Having grown up in farm country, I can tell you that domestic turkeys are the absolute stupidest creatures on God's green Earth! You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it! Schlueter, Edward wrote: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly! - Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati sorry, but somebody had to say it. e.s. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rick -- Remember that if you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Fw: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
(Forwarding an off-list response back to the List) Patrick makes a very good point about the impact on software licensing when moving from multiple CECs to a single large one. In our old configuration, we had two pairs of medium-sized CECs. Because of the work distribution, most software had to be licensed on every CEC. In our new configuration, most software is licensed only on the hefty z10. Next to that machine is a small one that *in no way* functions as a backup or failover for its big bro. My SHARE pitch does not use the term 'penalty box', but that's how we referred to the small CEC during our planning. Besides supplying a second set of ICF LPARs, the penalty box runs several key 'enterprise utility' products that need to run somewhere but not necessarily on the same CEC as data hosts: job scheduler, VTAM session manager, sysout manager, etc. These products tend to be expensive and MIPS-priced. They live very nicely on a small CEC, which can easily be sysplexed with LPARs on the big box. After all was said and done, we saved money with the new configuration without extracting any big concessions from software vendors. My point is that it's time to revisit long-held views about how to configure and manage your mainframe environment. Before the z10, we never seriously considered doing this. . . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com - Forwarded by J O Skip Robinson/SCE/EIX on 03/23/2009 02:39 PM - Mullen, Patrick patrick.mul...@g wl.ca To jo.skip.robin...@sce.com 03/23/2009 08:43 cc AM Subject RE: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Agreed, but sadly there are still some software vendors that charge for the entire machine even when their product only runs on an lpar consuming 2% of that machine. snip -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Robinson Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 10:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? The thrust of my z10 User Experience segment in Austin is that it's time to rethink the 'classic' mainframe configuration. Insistence on multiple CECs to provide 'adjacent' failover in case of planned or unplanned outages leads to chronic problems of load balancing. A single machine that (1) you can trust and (2) can be extensively reconfigured without a POR, immediately solves the balancing problems while still promising stellar availability. The z10 is such a machine. http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Austin/S2839 SR192048.pdf -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Semi-OT: Turkeys and MVS wasRe: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?(OT)
On 23 Mar 2009 10:02:05 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Having grown up in farm country, I can tell you that domestic turkeys are the absolute stupidest creatures on God's green Earth! You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it! The wild turkey is apparently a bird to be reckoned with. The turkey also was the symbol of the SHARE MVS project for many years. Schlueter, Edward wrote: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly! - Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati sorry, but somebody had to say it. e.s. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
Bob Richards writes: It has been awhile since someone has referenced the Mainframe site: http://mainframe.typepad.com/ Timothy Sipples has placed a nice post out there called How Many Mainframes Do You Need? It is worth the read, even for us old, crusty types who sometime forget we didn't always know everything! smile Thanks, Bob! I hope to encourage some new thinking with that post. You may also enjoy the embedded YouTube video. Shane writes: The more the better ... Unfortunately a shrinking pond is ultimately going to do none of us any good. Physical infrastructure parsimony is a very good thing. Keep in mind what's ultimately relevant and important: how broad and how deep the end-user value is of the system(s). Why wouldn't you want to deliver the same (or more) value to users if you can do it with fewer boxes? What, is there some contest I don't know about to see who can collect the most frame metal? :-) No, save some of the money, and spend some of the money on delivering more value to your users. More value includes things like better/more application development capabilities, business information intelligence, improved operations and systems management, removing remaining (and inconvenient) service interruptions, additional consolidation (from other server types), and so on. Do more with less is what managers always want and what mainframers can deliver better than anyone. I agree with other commenters that each new model -- now the z10 -- should challenge previous assumptions, including the how many? assumptions. For example, several analysts figured out that the System z10 BC is the consolidation platform for the rest of us (for those of us not big enough to justify an EC machine). I agree with that. In writing that post, I am coming from the perspective of chatting with certain customers who, for example, still think that they should run their compilers on a separate physical machine -- probably even separately backstopped with its own disaster recovery machine! -- because somehow the compiler could magically leap across an LPAR boundary and threaten their production workloads. Never mind the fact that those production workloads are often running within the context of a physical Parallel Sysplex -- and sometimes even a 3-machine Sysplex! Come on, isn't this the year 2009? :-) Anyway, perhaps it strikes you as odd for the IBM guy to say you don't need very many, but that's exactly what I'm saying. How many? It depends, but I offer some of the typical thought patterns in that blog post, at least to get you thinking. - - - - - Timothy Sipples Consulting Enterprise Software Architect IBM Japan, Ltd. e99...@jp.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
