How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:59:24 -0400, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.com wrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. There are more than a few vendors you can pay to do this analysis for you and come up with the same meaningless results you can get on IBM-MAIN. -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:59:24 -0400, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.com wrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. There are more than a few vendors you can pay to do this analysis for you and come up with the same meaningless results you can get on IBM-MAIN. But if the paid advice is worth the same as the free advice, why pay? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
Because management will consider meaningless advice to be credible if they have to pay for it. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:59:24 -0400, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.com wrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. There are more than a few vendors you can pay to do this analysis for you and come up with the same meaningless results you can get on IBM-MAIN. But if the paid advice is worth the same as the free advice, why pay? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
Unfortunately all too true. If their employees tell them something, they ignore it, but if a highly paid consultant tells them the exact same thing, then all of a sudden it becomes a godsend. - Original Message - From: Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? Because management will consider meaningless advice to be credible if they have to pay for it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
On 23 Jun 2009 09:24:39 -0700, jch...@ussco.com (Chase, John) wrote: There are more than a few vendors you can pay to do this analysis for you and come up with the same meaningless results you can get on IBM-MAIN. But if the paid advice is worth the same as the free advice, why pay? Blame control. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
That may be true in some environments. However, I *am* management. Sometimes answers are more solid coming from the experts (such as the lists I queried) than they are coming from a consulting company who oftentimes tries to give you the answer they think you want to hear, or position an answer as to lead you in a certain direction. Bottom line- I trust you guys more than a consulting co. Thanks for the replies so far, both on and offlist- they are far from meaningless. Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhen RY.COMTo Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Mainframe cc Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua Fax to .edu Subject Re: How big of a staff do you have 06/23/2009 12:34 on your mainframe? PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu Because management will consider meaningless advice to be credible if they have to pay for it. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:59:24 -0400, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.com wrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. There are more than a few vendors you can pay to do this analysis for you and come up with the same meaningless results you can get on IBM-MAIN. But if the paid advice is worth the same as the free advice, why pay? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
Oh yuk, you've just unleashed a storm of Survey Spam. You should have asked for private replies. We might be interested in the summary but not the ongoing tabulation. updating my subject line filter. :-((( -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Washburn Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.87/2195 - Release Date: 06/23/09 05:54:00 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
Tony, I don't know about you, but the only responses I've seen on-list have been the chatter revolving around it. I haven't seen any actual numbers coming across the listserv. Maybe my filters are already hiding them. :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tony B. Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? Oh yuk, you've just unleashed a storm of Survey Spam. You should have asked for private replies. We might be interested in the summary but not the ongoing tabulation. updating my subject line filter. :-((( -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Washburn Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
Interesting. We are VSE currently, moving to z/OS next year. 1) 21 (including 3 managers who are also developers) 2) 6 (3 VSE only, 2 z/OS only, 1 VSE and z/OS) 3) 6 (I think; 2 per shift, 3 shifts) 4) 1 (I didn't include the manager of systems/operations above) 5) 0 6) Hmm, about 2000 I think How does your business work without operators? Everything is automated? Frank -- Frank Swarbrick Applications Architect - Mainframe Applications Development FirstBank Data Corporation Lakewood, CO USA P: 303-235-1403 F: 303-235-2075 On 6/23/2009 at 9:59 AM, in message of9e583346.97bb5d10-on852575de.005432de-852575de.0057d...@winwholesale.com, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.com wrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html The information contained in this electronic communication and any document attached hereto or transmitted herewith is confidential and intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any examination, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy this communication. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
---snip--- This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. unsnip For my last real job: 1. 225 2. 4 3. 21 4. 6 5. 80 6. 300 The company was essentially a Service Bureau for the Chicago Board of Trade, but is no longer associated with CBOT, and was running z/OS 1.4 when I got riffed. I cannot, and will not, discuss the firms that I've done contract work for since then. -- Rick -- Remember that if you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
In my shop, there is no new development. We support legacy applications on a small z9 running z/OS 1.9. I would say that 5% of the processing iremains on the mainframe. 1) ? (application support has been outsourced) 2) 2 3) 5 (they no longer cover the day shift) 4) dedicated = 0 (2 managers, 2 prodution support analysts) 5) 0 6) 25,000 On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:59 -0400, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.com wrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
Re operations, we have about 10 minutes of 'traditional' operator tasks each day- loading and unloading the nightly DR/backup tapes, plus a couple hours of work on sundays to babysit a few tape reorgs which are too big to go disk-disk, and then kick off the weekly IPL. These tasks are performed by someone in our network dept. There are no production jobs or processes which require tapes or an operator- we have automated everything within a job submission system that puts everything into the hands of the users. When a user runs a batch 'job' off the menu, it asks questions to build the parameters, then runs, and then the user looks at the results in the list queue or some other CICS interface. We don't print anything for internal use- although if a user wants a printed copy of a report they are free to fire it off to their laser printer. So technically we don't have *zero* operator hours... but it is literally less than a tenth of an employee. Bill Frank Swarbrick frank.swarbrick@ EFIRSTBANK.COMTo Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Mainframe cc Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua Fax to .edu Subject Re: How big of a staff do you have 06/23/2009 01:24 on your mainframe? PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu Interesting. We are VSE currently, moving to z/OS next year. 1) 21 (including 3 managers who are also developers) 2) 6 (3 VSE only, 2 z/OS only, 1 VSE and z/OS) 3) 6 (I think; 2 per shift, 3 shifts) 4) 1 (I didn't include the manager of systems/operations above) 5) 0 6) Hmm, about 2000 I think How does your business work without operators? Everything is automated? Frank -- Frank Swarbrick Applications Architect - Mainframe Applications Development FirstBank Data Corporation Lakewood, CO USA P: 303-235-1403 F: 303-235-2075 On 6/23/2009 at 9:59 AM, in message of9e583346.97bb5d10-on852575de.005432de-852575de.0057d...@winwholesale.com, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.com wrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html The information contained in this electronic communication and any document attached hereto or transmitted herewith is confidential and intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any examination, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any part
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
I do have about 20 replies so far (not counting the 'survey spam chatter' variety). I posted the query to the VSE list as well as this list, and a slight majority of the responses have come from there. I will post a summary (without revealing names, as some have requested) in a day or so. Thanks for the replies. Pommier, Rex R. rex.pomm...@cnas URETY.COM To Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Mainframe cc Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua Fax to .edu Subject Re: How big of a staff do you have 06/23/2009 01:15 on your mainframe? PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu Tony, I don't know about you, but the only responses I've seen on-list have been the chatter revolving around it. I haven't seen any actual numbers coming across the listserv. Maybe my filters are already hiding them. :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tony B. Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? Oh yuk, you've just unleashed a storm of Survey Spam. You should have asked for private replies. We might be interested in the summary but not the ongoing tabulation. updating my subject line filter. :-((( -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Washburn Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
Your levels roughly reflect ours with fewer app programmers and more sysprogs. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Washburn Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe? This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. What I'd like to know is how many employees/contractors do various companies have supporting and working within their mainframe environment, broken down in a few broad categories. 1) application developers 2) system programmers 3) operators 4) any other staff specifically dedicated to the MF (B/A's, managers, etc) 5) contractors/consultants dedicated to your MF 6) total company employees Also, what operating system are you on? (VSE, z\OS, etc) For the record, our answers are 1) 4 2) 1 3) 0 4) 2 5) 1 6) 4100 and we're VSE, with about 40% of our total data processing taking place on our mainframe, and the remainder on other platforms. Thanks Bill Washburn -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How big of a staff do you have on your mainframe?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Bill Washburn bwashb...@winwholesale.comwrote: This might seem like an odd request- But, as part of the platform analysis we're undertaking, I'd like to gauge how our staff size compares with other companies' resource allocation to their mainframe. If you'd been to SHARE, WAVV, or most any other user group, you'd know that most sysprogs are larger than average. Oh, wait, you wanted *numbers* of people... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
