Re: MQ alternatives
To oversimplify only slightly, MQ is a transport and Web services is (are) a protocol. It's quite OK, even common, to run Web services over a JMS/MQ transport. If you say you want to use Web services instead of MQ, it's a bit like saying you want to use voicemail instead of a cellular telephone network. Instead isn't exactly the right word to connect those two concepts. You could say something like We want to use Web services with a transport other than JMS or MQ or We want to use Web services with an HTTPS transport. That might be fine or might not. If the vendor application supports that, if it works, if it meets the non-functional requirements (reliability, performance, maintainability, recoverability, etc.), and if the business case is the strongest, then that's the approach I'd pick. If not, then not. Does the vendor support Web services for integrating their application? With what transport(s)? So far we only know about three available choices: MQ, JMS, and Microsoft Message Queuing. Are CICS-based application(s) the other party(ies) to the interaction(s) with this vendor application? Or some other type of application on the mainframe? Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
There are alternatives. As you say, web services is one. I was just hoping for a message queuing alternative to IBM MQ. Most likely we will go the web services path; I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a better alternative it it was available and in our price range. Thanks! Frank From: Roberts, John J jrobe...@dhs.state.ia.us To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:36 AM Subject: Re: MQ alternatives There are gateway products that allow MSMQ to interface with IBM MQ. But I think the OP wants to avoid any configuration requiring any flavor of MQ. In this case the OP needs to ask the 3rd party vendor what other interfacing alternatives exist. For example, is there a possibility for a web service interface? Or is MSMQ supported w/o any need for any flavor of IBM MQ? If a Web Service interfacing option is available, then the OP could implement CICS Web Services to make the connection. If MSMQ is supported, then a Windows process to act as a relay between MSMQ and CICS Web Services could be developed. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
That (software licensing aware configurations) is (are) not at all unique to mainframes. If anything, such configurations are easier to handle with mainframes if you choose them. My airline ticket for this coming holiday season is much more contorted, but by gosh it's cost-optimized. :-) Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
Based on the information before us, I'd vote for MQ for z/OS. The vendor just might know something here. Keep in mind that there are never any cost-free options which involve change. And often inertia is costly, too. Simple is good, and the most direct (and efficient) JMS connection to z/OS is quite simply via MQ for z/OS. To expand on the MQ sub-capacity licensing point, what many shops do is create (or use) a small(er) LPAR for MQ, then place one or a couple CICS TORs in that LPAR (if we're talking about CICS here). Then set a softcap for that MQ LPAR. If you have variable licensing, which you should in this case, you'll never see an MQ charge exceeding your softcap. The CICS AORs can be in other LPARs. That works beautifully. If you want to get slightly more sophisticated and more highly available, you can configure an MQ shared queue in a coupling facility. That works even more beautifully. IBM WebSphere MQ is available for many platforms, including Microsoft Windows. IBM WMQ is not at all the same thing as Microsoft Message Queuing. Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
W dniu 2011-10-15 13:29, Timothy Sipples pisze: To expand on the MQ sub-capacity licensing point, what many shops do is create (or use) a small(er) LPAR for MQ, then place one or a couple CICS TORs in that LPAR (if we're talking about CICS here). Then set a softcap for that MQ LPAR. (off-topic, but still about mainframes) That's beautiful example how much work is being done just to do technically very same thing and save on licences. Everytime I hear about penalty machine or dedicated LPAR I think what a stupid licensing terms and conditions we have!. Just my €0.02 -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2011 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.346.696 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
Everytime I hear about penalty machine or dedicated LPAR I think what a stupid licensing terms and conditions we have!. I've been doing capacity planning since before IBM introduced model groups in 1984. I told anybody who'd listen (not many) that it was going not going to be a good thing. After the introduction of MSU pricing sub-capacity options, I seem to spend more time managing the location of workloads and performing unnatural acts than actually forecasting. At one company, we actually created a task force to move things around to forestall cost increases. We spent more time and money doing that than we 'saved' and usually delayed the upgrade(s) to the point that we hurt our service to our customers. All because of IBM (and later ISV) pricing. I hate it when I'm right about something like this. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
Windows MQ cannot connect to MQ on z/OS. I don't think so. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 1:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: MQ alternatives WebSphere MQ is also a (most excellent) Java Message Service provider for z/OS, which is probably why the vendor recommended it. WebSphere Application Server for z/OS also provides JMS support, but then you'd have to figure out how to interface WAS to whatever else you want (i.e. your mainframe applications). One popular way would be via WebSphere MQ. :-) Conceivably you could cobble something JMS together and run it on Java on z/OS, but then you'd be responsible for the stream of costs associated with creating, maintaining, and managing it, plus you'd have to figure out how to connect it. (You could write your own operating system, too, if you really want.) Considering that you're asking about a vendor application that you're buying instead of building, you've probably already ruled out building. Microsoft Message Queuing runs only on Windows (last I checked), so if you want to connect Windows systems to this vendor application, that's an option. You can't run it on z/OS (or on several other operating systems), so you'd need something else to bridge between Microsoft and any other platform (including z/OS), and that bridge would have to be a Windows system. And then you'd need to buy, maintain, and manage that, plus figure out how to connect it. Other bridge approaches are possible, with the same issue. Note that WebSphere MQ for z/OS is sub-capacity licensed. Maybe the vendor is correct. Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
Windows MQ can connect to z/OS MQ. I use it, it's designed for such connections. However Imothy wrote about *another product*, product from Microsoft. And it's very likely that M$ did not released version for z/OS. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 2011-10-14 16:09, Henke, George pisze: Windows MQ cannot connect to MQ on z/OS. I don't think so. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 1:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: MQ alternatives WebSphere MQ is also a (most excellent) Java Message Service provider for z/OS, which is probably why the vendor recommended it. WebSphere Application Server for z/OS also provides JMS support, but then you'd have to figure out how to interface WAS to whatever else you want (i.e. your mainframe applications). One popular way would be via WebSphere MQ. :-) Conceivably you could cobble something JMS together and run it on Java on z/OS, but then you'd be responsible for the stream of costs associated with creating, maintaining, and managing it, plus you'd have to figure out how to connect it. (You could write your own operating system, too, if you really want.) Considering that you're asking about a vendor application that you're buying instead of building, you've probably already ruled out building. Microsoft Message Queuing runs only on Windows (last I checked), so if you want to connect Windows systems to this vendor application, that's an option. You can't run it on z/OS (or on several other operating systems), so you'd need something else to bridge between Microsoft and any other platform (including z/OS), and that bridge would have to be a Windows system. And then you'd need to buy, maintain, and manage that, plus figure out how to connect it. Other bridge approaches are possible, with the same issue. Note that WebSphere MQ for z/OS is sub-capacity licensed. Maybe the vendor is correct. Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2011 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.346.696 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Henke, George Windows MQ cannot connect to MQ on z/OS. Since when??? We've been running exactly that kind of connection in Production for over a decade, without significant problems. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
There are gateway products that allow MSMQ to interface with IBM MQ. But I think the OP wants to avoid any configuration requiring any flavor of MQ. In this case the OP needs to ask the 3rd party vendor what other interfacing alternatives exist. For example, is there a possibility for a web service interface? Or is MSMQ supported w/o any need for any flavor of IBM MQ? If a Web Service interfacing option is available, then the OP could implement CICS Web Services to make the connection. If MSMQ is supported, then a Windows process to act as a relay between MSMQ and CICS Web Services could be developed. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
MQ alternatives
We have a vendor product that would like us to use WebSphere MQ to interface with it. We do not have MQ, and apparently have to intention of getting it any time soon (too expensive; too much support required...?). They also support some alternative message queuing products (Java Message Service and Microsoft Message Queuing, I believe were mentioned). Are these alternatives, or any others, available to z/OS? Thanks! Frank -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MQ alternatives
WebSphere MQ is also a (most excellent) Java Message Service provider for z/OS, which is probably why the vendor recommended it. WebSphere Application Server for z/OS also provides JMS support, but then you'd have to figure out how to interface WAS to whatever else you want (i.e. your mainframe applications). One popular way would be via WebSphere MQ. :-) Conceivably you could cobble something JMS together and run it on Java on z/OS, but then you'd be responsible for the stream of costs associated with creating, maintaining, and managing it, plus you'd have to figure out how to connect it. (You could write your own operating system, too, if you really want.) Considering that you're asking about a vendor application that you're buying instead of building, you've probably already ruled out building. Microsoft Message Queuing runs only on Windows (last I checked), so if you want to connect Windows systems to this vendor application, that's an option. You can't run it on z/OS (or on several other operating systems), so you'd need something else to bridge between Microsoft and any other platform (including z/OS), and that bridge would have to be a Windows system. And then you'd need to buy, maintain, and manage that, plus figure out how to connect it. Other bridge approaches are possible, with the same issue. Note that WebSphere MQ for z/OS is sub-capacity licensed. Maybe the vendor is correct. Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
