Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
In 040601ccf67d$d7ea4060$87bec120$@mcn.org, on 02/28/2012 at 05:02 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org said: Creating derivative works is a right reserved to the copyright holder. In what country? Do you have a citation for the section of the US Code that prohibits creating, as opposed to distributing or performing, a copyrighted work? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
In 6203531854820126.wa.paulgboulderaim@bama.ua.edu, on 02/28/2012 at 06:46 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: May I distribute such derivative works at least to other z/OS licensees? Unless it was something covered under the fair use doctrine, you'd need IBM's permission to distribute it to others. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
17 USC 106: Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: (1)to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; (2)to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; quoted from http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106 Is anyone here using an IBM mainframe for personal work? The rest of us work(ed) for companies which probably have legal departements. That is where this discussion belongs. Or, since mainframes are probably used in some hospitals and health insurance companies, we can also discuss the virtues and limitations of self-performed amputations. - Original Message - From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:52:04 AM Subject: Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...) In 040601ccf67d$d7ea4060$87bec120$@mcn.org, on 02/28/2012 at 05:02 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org said: Creating derivative works is a right reserved to the copyright holder. In what country? Do you have a citation for the section of the US Code that prohibits creating, as opposed to distributing or performing, a copyrighted work? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
On 1 Mar 2012 08:21:46 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: 17 USC 106: Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: (1)to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; (2)to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; quoted from http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106 Is anyone here using an IBM mainframe for personal work? The rest of us work(ed) for companies which probably have legal departements. That is where this discussion belongs. Or, since mainframes are probably used in some hospitals and health insurance companies, we can also discuss the virtues and limitations of self-performed amputations. Although I am semi-retired (will take contracts) and probably long past any statute of limitations, I have used as is or modified SAMPLIB members, placing them in production and in addition I may well have put said modifications on the MICHMODS, JES3 or CBT tapes. For those of you still active, not using SAMPLIB members could be a drastic change in the way things are done. I believe the intent of those members is that they be used as templates for organizations to customize the system and that sharing can be a part of that customization. Since I am fairly certain that there are installations within IBM and other vendors that have copies of various MODS tapes and/or their successors, this probably is a non-issue. However, I'm just a bumped up DOS360 COBOL payroll programmer, not a lawyer. Clark Morris - Original Message - From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:52:04 AM Subject: Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...) In 040601ccf67d$d7ea4060$87bec120$@mcn.org, on 02/28/2012 at 05:02 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org said: Creating derivative works is a right reserved to the copyright holder. In what country? Do you have a citation for the section of the US Code that prohibits creating, as opposed to distributing or performing, a copyrighted work? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
In 2124098090.39070.1330618834313.javamail.r...@md39.quartz.synacor.com, on 03/01/2012 at 11:20 AM, retired-mainfra...@q.com retired-mainfra...@q.com said: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106 But note 17 USC 107. Note also the issue of derivative versus transformative works. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
On 28 Feb 2012 17:04:12 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Creating and distributing? Creating derivative works is a right reserved to the copyright holder. You violate the copyright owner's rights simply by *making* a derivative work (in the absence of a license to do so). It does not matter if you intend to distribute it only to people already licensed for the original work. Please save the flames: I am not making up the law, just reporting it. Given the intent of **.SAMPLIB datasets, there should be a member in each of those datasets clearly stating what is and isn't allowed. Based on my use of them back in the 1970's and 1980's and MICHMODS/CBT tape derivatives I doubt that IBM could assert rights at this late date but this is a practical, not a legal opinion. I base it on the widespread use and the amount of animosity it would cause in the customer base. I can just see a judge or a lawyer asking why samples were distributed in a manner that said they were examples if they weren't to be copied and modified as needed. Clark Morris Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...) On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:20:50 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: If you're licensed for z/OS then you're licensed for the members of SAMPLIB. Including creating derivative works? Where can I find this in writing? May I distribute such derivative works at least to other z/OS licensees? I suppose it's my responsibility to verify the license. I wonder how much code on cbttape.org is derivative of SAMPLIB or of examples in reference manuals? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:10:38 -0600, McKown, John wrote: It works for me, but does not help the OP because he won't have my code. And, in some cases, I've been told that some shops can only use either in-house developed code or, in extremis, only vendor supplied code, no freeware or unsupported code allowed. IOW, there's no way you can assist such people. The instant you supply a one-line example it becomes tainted: they can't copy it or adapt it; they must develop independently or purchase a different technique. Socratic method? This raises a related question about members in SYS1.SAMPLIB. Generally they bear IBM copyright notices. If I wish to adapt one for my purposes, that constitutes a derivative work. Must I seek IBM's written permission then to use it? If the facts are otherwise, why doesn't IBM state that in an amendment to the copyright notice? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
In 9038955276379215.wa.paulgboulderaim@bama.ua.edu, on 02/28/2012 at 11:22 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: This raises a related question about members in SYS1.SAMPLIB. Generally they bear IBM copyright notices. If I wish to adapt one for my purposes, that constitutes a derivative work. Must I seek IBM's written permission then to use it? If you're licensed for z/OS then you're licensed for the members of SAMPLIB. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:20:50 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: If you're licensed for z/OS then you're licensed for the members of SAMPLIB. Including creating derivative works? Where can I find this in writing? May I distribute such derivative works at least to other z/OS licensees? I suppose it's my responsibility to verify the license. I wonder how much code on cbttape.org is derivative of SAMPLIB or of examples in reference manuals? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...)
Creating and distributing? Creating derivative works is a right reserved to the copyright holder. You violate the copyright owner's rights simply by *making* a derivative work (in the absence of a license to do so). It does not matter if you intend to distribute it only to people already licensed for the original work. Please save the flames: I am not making up the law, just reporting it. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Originality (was: Duplicating SYSOUT ...) On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:20:50 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: If you're licensed for z/OS then you're licensed for the members of SAMPLIB. Including creating derivative works? Where can I find this in writing? May I distribute such derivative works at least to other z/OS licensees? I suppose it's my responsibility to verify the license. I wonder how much code on cbttape.org is derivative of SAMPLIB or of examples in reference manuals? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
