Re: Pricing of Software Licenses
From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Subject: Re: Pricing of Software Licenses I've had success with vendors You have to be resolved to be willing to drop the product. We were. Low revenue is better than no revenue, as far as a vendor is concerned. I agree 100%. Unfortunately it also depends on how deep the role of the vendor product is. We were able to kick CA 1 and CA-Disk out within 4 months because CA didn't adhere to SCP. I'm afraid we won't succeed with ADABAS in favor of DB2. Rewriting our application would take years. And the SAG knows it. Walter Marguccio z/OS Systems Programmer BELENUS LOB Informatic GmbH Munich - Germany -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Pricing of Software Licenses
I would respectfully disagree. You most likely won't have to rewrite anything. Convert, yes, but I would imagine IBM would be tickled pink to help with that. It won't be easy or cheap, but there could be a serious long term payout. Something to consider that many vendors that refused to play by the modern rules are now out of business or are in serious trouble. That means you have a real risk of becoming unsupported if the vendor fails. Not a pleasant thought. Bottom line is to take a hard line. Invite bids from IBM and perhaps even fund a proof of concept project. Make it clear to SAG that they don't run your shop. Invite representatives from both SAG and IBM to come in and discuss the issues. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Walter Marguccio Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 4:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Pricing of Software Licenses From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Subject: Re: Pricing of Software Licenses I've had success with vendors You have to be resolved to be willing to drop the product. We were. Low revenue is better than no revenue, as far as a vendor is concerned. I agree 100%. Unfortunately it also depends on how deep the role of the vendor product is. We were able to kick CA 1 and CA-Disk out within 4 months because CA didn't adhere to SCP. I'm afraid we won't succeed with ADABAS in favor of DB2. Rewriting our application would take years. And the SAG knows it. Walter Marguccio z/OS Systems Programmer BELENUS LOB Informatic GmbH Munich - Germany -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Pricing of Software Licenses
The applicability of sub capacity pricing is a pretty complex issue. Usually software is priced in MIP or MSU ranges so you'd have to figure out what your break points are. For example, we have a license for a product that goes up to 110 MSU. If we use more than that, then we move to the next tier. The larger strategy is to buy a much bigger box than you need and then grow into it. Meanwhile your software costs grow along with your workload not with a big bang for the new box. Conversely, if your shop is shrinking, your software costs also shrink. All assuming, of course, that your OEM software venders will agree to the reduced prices. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jacky Bright Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 9:15 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Pricing of Software Licenses Yes. We do have sub-capacity pricing, but to generate SCRT report we need Type 70 records for which either CMF or RMF Required. So its necessary to have RMF or CMF. Now that this topic has come up its worth discussing pricing of softwares. I have a question here. If your utilisation is consistently more that 80-85% of overall CPC capacity then is it worth going for sub-capacity pricing ? I have not done any research on this but came to know from one sales guy that I sub-capacity pricing is 10% more than PSLC charges. Does anyone have any idea about this ? JAcky NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Pricing of Software Licenses
IMVHO... the software vendors (most of them) have not embraced SCP for the simple reason that they can get more of your money the old fashioned way. That's all I have to say on this subject. All the best, Scott T. Harder -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu]on Behalf Of Hal Merritt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 6:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Pricing of Software Licenses The applicability of sub capacity pricing is a pretty complex issue. Usually software is priced in MIP or MSU ranges so you'd have to figure out what your break points are. For example, we have a license for a product that goes up to 110 MSU. If we use more than that, then we move to the next tier. The larger strategy is to buy a much bigger box than you need and then grow into it. Meanwhile your software costs grow along with your workload not with a big bang for the new box. Conversely, if your shop is shrinking, your software costs also shrink. All assuming, of course, that your OEM software venders will agree to the reduced prices. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jacky Bright Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 9:15 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Pricing of Software Licenses Yes. We do have sub-capacity pricing, but to generate SCRT report we need Type 70 records for which either CMF or RMF Required. So its necessary to have RMF or CMF. Now that this topic has come up its worth discussing pricing of softwares. I have a question here. If your utilisation is consistently more that 80-85% of overall CPC capacity then is it worth going for sub-capacity pricing ? I have not done any research on this but came to know from one sales guy that I sub-capacity pricing is 10% more than PSLC charges. Does anyone have any idea about this ? JAcky NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYR2bmF68OwiCW3rOiKJmsh11eVfj7xHJ7ZCykb9zKDD5wKOTIYNtG/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Pricing of Software Licenses
IMVHO... the software vendors (most of them) have not embraced SCP for the simple reason that they can get more of your money the old fashioned way. That's all I have to say on this subject. I've had success with vendors: 1. SAS Institute -- we were one of the few shops that didn't have the product. I stated, sub-capacity, or no placement. 2. MEGASOLVE -- or whatever its new name is. They refused and we went to VANGUARD. 3. SYSB -- we were hard nosed, and we won. You have to be resolved to be willing to drop the product. We were. Low revenue is better than no revenue, as far as a vendor is concerned. At a shop I worked at, even earlier, we managed to reduce the MICS licence to a single image and a single site, even though we were managing two sites and 7 processors. If you are willing to step off the cliff, the vendor isn't always. Nobody has called our bluff, yet. But, vendor politics is always fun, isn't it? - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Pricing of Software Licenses
Yes. We do have sub-capacity pricing, but to generate SCRT report we need Type 70 records for which either CMF or RMF Required. So its necessary to have RMF or CMF. Now that this topic has come up its worth discussing pricing of softwares. I have a question here. If your utilisation is consistently more that 80-85% of overall CPC capacity then is it worth going for sub-capacity pricing ? I have not done any research on this but came to know from one sales guy that I sub-capacity pricing is 10% more than PSLC charges. Does anyone have any idea about this ? JAcky On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kelman, Tom thomas.kel...@commercebank.comwrote: Jacky, If you're trying to cut costs I hope you've gone to sub-capacity pricing. That will definitely help in the cost area. I just checked our invoice for operating system software and RMF is less than 4% of the total cost. I absolutely agree with other responses here. A shop runnning z/OS definitely needs RMF or CMF. Tom Kelman Enterprise Capacity Planner Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen Hall Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:12 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Implications of not having CMF or RMF - Urgent __ _ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. __ _ Date:Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:51:34 +1000 From:Paul Gillis pgil...@pc-link.com.au Subject: Re: Implications of not having CMF or RMF - Urgent G'day Jacky, I do not believe so. There may be some performance monitors on the CBT site, but you will get what your client is prepared to pay for. Nine tenths of Zero. Cheers, Paul Gillis Due to licensing cost cutting my client is considering removing CMF. Also he is not ready to go for RMF software. Would like to know is there any third party tool which generates Type 70- 79 records as being generated by these tools. We are running SYSPLEX. Without these tools is there any other way by which we can get LPAR / Partition / Coupling Facility LPAR wise CPU MSU / MIPS report for every 15 min. interval ? JAcky Hi Jacky, I also think that without either RMF or CMF you have problems with SDSF (assuming a MAS). From memory you get a RMF SYSPLEX not active message and your DA screen is blank. Thanks Regards, - Stephen Hall Mainframe Platform Manager INSURANCE AUSTRALIA GROUP (IAG) www.iag.com.au PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL. - __ _ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses with Symantec Scan Engine and cleared by MailMarshal. __ _ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is
