Re: IBM APAR
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:43 -0600, Ed Gould wrote: >There is a discussion going on another list on how to identify a >*HIGH* (data base corruption possibility). >Someone suggestion a HIPER doc APAR IBM came back and said they would >not make a HIPER doc APAR, nor apparently is there a INFO APAR >allowed to be HIPER. > >Anybody have a suggestion how IBM might flag an APAR as being >extremely important and could lead to a Data base corruption if it is >not addressed at installation? A FLASH from IBM might be more than slightly in order for such a documentation oversight. Trouble is, FLASHes are not very timely ... a lot of RACF databases can become corrupted between the idea and the implementation. Maybe the APAR should be appealed to get a code change rather than a doc change? (Oh yeah, like the RACF people are gonna let that happen!) -- Tom Schmidt Madison, WI -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed Gould wrote: There is a discussion going on another list on how to identify a *HIGH* (data base corruption possibility). Someone suggestion a HIPER doc APAR IBM came back and said they would not make a HIPER doc APAR, nor apparently is there a INFO APAR allowed to be HIPER. Anybody have a suggestion how IBM might flag an APAR as being extremely important and could lead to a Data base corruption if it is not addressed at installation? Red Alert? https://techsupport.services.ibm.com/server/redAlerts/ -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed, https://techsupport.services.ibm.com/server/redAlerts And it works ! jan > There is a discussion going on another list on how to identify a > *HIGH* (data base corruption possibility). > Someone suggestion a HIPER doc APAR IBM came back and said they would > not make a HIPER doc APAR, nor apparently is there a INFO APAR > allowed to be HIPER. > > Anybody have a suggestion how IBM might flag an APAR as being > extremely important and could lead to a Data base corruption if it is > not addressed at installation? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
"Ed Gould" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... > There is a discussion going on another list on how to identify a > *HIGH* (data base corruption possibility). > Someone suggestion a HIPER doc APAR IBM came back and said they would > not make a HIPER doc APAR, nor apparently is there a INFO APAR > allowed to be HIPER. > > Anybody have a suggestion how IBM might flag an APAR as being > extremely important and could lead to a Data base corruption if it is > not addressed at installation? Catalog uses CATBREAKER, VSAM uses DSBREAKER - don't know what component you're talking about, so can't answer the question. Any CATBREAKER/DSBREAKER is marked HIPER. Thanks, Mark Thomen Catalog/IDCAMS/VSAM Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 3, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Edward E. Jaffe wrote: Ed Gould wrote: There is a discussion going on another list on how to identify a *HIGH* (data base corruption possibility). Someone suggestion a HIPER doc APAR IBM came back and said they would not make a HIPER doc APAR, nor apparently is there a INFO APAR allowed to be HIPER. Anybody have a suggestion how IBM might flag an APAR as being extremely important and could lead to a Data base corruption if it is not addressed at installation? Red Alert? https://techsupport.services.ibm.com/server/redAlerts/ Ed, Its an idea.. but in all honesty this is the first time I have even heard of this facility. I wonder how many other sysprogs have heard of this. I am still liking the hyper doc (or new classification like installation?) type since it goes the SMP/e rout which everyone knows about. Ed -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 3, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Mark Thomen wrote: -SNIP-- Catalog uses CATBREAKER, VSAM uses DSBREAKER - don't know what component you're talking about, so can't answer the question. Any CATBREAKER/DSBREAKER is marked HIPER. Mark, Thanks, maybe RACF could implement something like this. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed, the advantage of RedAlert is that you get notified when there is one. Push-technic in stead of pull. I prefer the push way in such matters. jan -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
This is a resend since I can see no trace of my original post but maybe some others have. Ed, Edward Jaffe gave you the definitive answer as far as I can see having peeked at the web page. Surely the almost as important question here is why your local IBMers didn't know to give you this answer. Chris Mason - Original Message - From: "Ed Gould" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: Sent: Friday, 03 March, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: IBM APAR > There is a discussion going on another list on how to identify a > *HIGH* (data base corruption possibility). > Someone suggestion a HIPER doc APAR IBM came back and said they would > not make a HIPER doc APAR, nor apparently is there a INFO APAR > allowed to be HIPER. > > Anybody have a suggestion how IBM might flag an APAR as being > extremely important and could lead to a Data base corruption if it is > not addressed at installation? > > > Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 4, 2006, at 7:33 AM, Chris Mason wrote: This is a resend since I can see no trace of my original post but maybe some others have. Ed, Edward Jaffe gave you the definitive answer as far as I can see having peeked at the web page. Surely the almost as important question here is why your local IBMers didn't know to give you this answer. Chris Mason SNIP- As I told him and still maintain there should only be one source in SMP HOLD because that is what everybody relies on. IBM coming up with two sources for something like this goes against the grain and firm ground of SMPe land, IMO. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
>Surely the almost as important question here is why your local IBMers didn't know to give you this answer. Ed is retired. And, claiming the old ways/problems are still happening. - -teD I’m an enthusiastic proselytiser of the universal panacea I believe in! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 4, 2006, at 12:00 AM, Ted MacNEIL wrote: Surely the almost as important question here is why your local IBMers didn't know to give you this answer. Ed is retired. And, claiming the old ways/problems are still happening. This was from the RACF list *NOT* from my experience personally. I did say in my original list the question came up on another list. Ed - -teD I’m an enthusiastic proselytiser of the universal panacea I believe in! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed Gould wrote: On Mar 3, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Edward E. Jaffe wrote: Ed Gould wrote: There is a discussion going on another list on how to identify a *HIGH* (data base corruption possibility). Someone suggestion a HIPER doc APAR IBM came back and said they would not make a HIPER doc APAR, nor apparently is there a INFO APAR allowed to be HIPER. Anybody have a suggestion how IBM might flag an APAR as being extremely important and could lead to a Data base corruption if it is not addressed at installation? Red Alert? https://techsupport.services.ibm.com/server/redAlerts/ Ed, Its an idea.. but in all honesty this is the first time I have even heard of this facility. I wonder how many other sysprogs have heard of this. I believe it to be a significant number. At the very least, every sysprog that has attended the SHARE MVS Program opening (Monday at 8 am) in recent years should be aware of Red Alerts. Jerry Ng (IBM) has been talking about them for as long as I can remember ... I am still liking the hyper doc (or new classification like installation?) type since it goes the SMP/e rout which everyone knows about. No SMP/E classification/attribute can possibly receive anywhere _near_ the same level of attention as a Red Alert. Red Alerts are rare (only four of them generated in all of 2005); intended only for the most serious of problems. Subscribers are notified by e-mail when a new Red Alert appears. It's possible that the RACF problem to which you have referred wouldn't even be considered serious enough to qualify as a Red Alert. I'm not sure how the decision is made and who by. But, it's clear it isn't made lightly ... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Jan Vanbrabant wrote: Ed, https://techsupport.services.ibm.com/server/redAlerts And it works ! Well, z/OS Red Alerts are not a highly used facility. There have been just 4 (four) in 2005 and none so far this year. I'm subscribed but, from time to time, I wonder if the service is still alive and go checking. -- Ulrich Boche SVA GmbH, Germany IBM Premier Business Partner -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed Gould > > On Mar 3, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Edward E. Jaffe wrote: > > > [ snip ] > > > > Red Alert? https://techsupport.services.ibm.com/server/redAlerts/ > > Ed, > > Its an idea.. but in all honesty this is the first time I > have even heard of this facility. I wonder how many other > sysprogs have heard of this. It's only been around for 3 - 4 years, maybe longer > I am still liking the hyper doc (or new classification like > installation?) type since it goes the SMP/e rout which > everyone knows about. ??? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ulrich Boche wrote: Well, z/OS Red Alerts are not a highly used facility. There have been just 4 (four) in 2005 and none so far this year. I'm subscribed but, from time to time, I wonder if the service is still alive and go checking. It is still alive. I saw Jerry Ng here at SHARE yesterday (Sunday) and spoke with him about this issue. He hasn't heard anything about it, but agrees that if it was a serious enough problem (e.g., can result in a multisystem outage), it might be eligible to appear as a Red Alert. He also briefly explained the process by which IBM decides whether a problem merits this treatment. The decision is made by a board comprised of technical experts and others. It is a big deal. If Jerry Ng hasn't heard anything about the RACF issue, it must not have too much visibility in Poughkeepsie. Perhaps it's not as serious as we were originally led to believe... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 6, 2006, at 7:19 AM, Chase, John wrote: -SNIP It's only been around for 3 - 4 years, maybe longer I am still liking the hyper doc (or new classification like installation?) type since it goes the SMP/e rout which everyone knows about. ??? Some other sysprogs that I know don't know about it but they don't go SHARE. I would hate to think that this apparently nice facility is limited to SHARE attendees. I am not against this per se.. The idea that any important piece of information should be disseminated as widely as possible should be the end point in this discussion. Since IBM has had this in place for 20 (++?) years with SMPHOLD data, to me makes this an ideal avenue for IBM to get information out to the end user (read sysprog) community. I do like the idea of flash's but in truth over the years they never seemed to reach the intended community (sysprogs). IBM has consistently (and to their credit) preached the smphold mantra. It works. Now maybe if the flash has other audiences then it serves its purposes. It appears to me that the flashes can exist side by side with smphold data they should not be mutually exclusive, so what if a flash and a holddata are sent out? No one is going to complain. Ed -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed Gould wrote: Some other sysprogs that I know don't know about it but they don't go SHARE. I would hate to think that this apparently nice facility is limited to SHARE attendees. I am not against this per se.. C'mon, Ed. Of course it's not limited to SHARE attendees. Why would we want to do that? The idea that any important piece of information should be disseminated as widely as possible should be the end point in this discussion. Since IBM has had this in place for 20 (++?) years with SMPHOLD data, to me makes this an ideal avenue for IBM to get information out to the end user (read sysprog) community. HOLDDATA has indeed been around for quite a while (and a big improvement it was over EXCLUDE lists, too). However, Enhanced HOLDDATA, which includes HOLDs for HIPERs, has not been around for 20 years. In fact, the pre-GA pilot progam wasn't even 20 years ago (more like 12). Without digging through notes and such, my best guess is that Enhanced HOLDDATA will have something close to its 10th birthday this year. I do like the idea of flash's but in truth over the years they never seemed to reach the intended community (sysprogs). For flashes to be effective, you have remember to go find them and read them. Since they have been on a website for quite some time, this is much easier than it once was. But I thought this discussion was about red alerts. Red alerts come to your e-mail inbox. There is no need to go look for them. IBM has consistently (and to their credit) preached the smphold mantra. It works. Now maybe if the flash has other audiences then it serves its purposes. It appears to me that the flashes can exist side by side with smphold data they should not be mutually exclusive, so what if a flash and a holddata are sent out? No one is going to complain. They are not mutually exclusive. -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 13, 2006, at 8:18 AM, John Eells wrote: Ed Gould wrote: Some other sysprogs that I know don't know about it but they don't go SHARE. I would hate to think that this apparently nice facility is limited to SHARE attendees. I am not against this per se.. C'mon, Ed. Of course it's not limited to SHARE attendees. Why would we want to do that? Well, I did not say it but the implication is there. If the information about IBM is offering the service is limited to SHARE, that is the implication. Since GUIDE no longer exist, IBM needs once again to get out of its tower and get out there and tell the troops about the new service. Ed The idea that any important piece of information should be disseminated as widely as possible should be the end point in this discussion. Since IBM has had this in place for 20 (++?) years with SMPHOLD data, to me makes this an ideal avenue for IBM to get information out to the end user (read sysprog) community. HOLDDATA has indeed been around for quite a while (and a big improvement it was over EXCLUDE lists, too). However, Enhanced HOLDDATA, which includes HOLDs for HIPERs, has not been around for 20 years. In fact, the pre-GA pilot progam wasn't even 20 years ago (more like 12). Without digging through notes and such, my best guess is that Enhanced HOLDDATA will have something close to its 10th birthday this year. Thanks for the clarification. I do like the idea of flash's but in truth over the years they never seemed to reach the intended community (sysprogs). For flashes to be effective, you have remember to go find them and read them. Since they have been on a website for quite some time, this is much easier than it once was. But I thought this discussion was about red alerts. Red alerts come to your e-mail inbox. There is no need to go look for them. IBM has consistently (and to their credit) preached the smphold mantra. It works. Now maybe if the flash has other audiences then it serves its purposes. It appears to me that the flashes can exist side by side with smphold data they should not be mutually exclusive, so what if a flash and a holddata are sent out? No one is going to complain. They are not mutually exclusive. SNIP--- Of course they aren't. The idea that FLASHES can be brought to the attention of the "community" is fine, but just don't assume they reach everyone. It does not hurt to have duplication (in this instance, IMO). Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed, pay attention. John could not have stated it any more clearly : "Of course it's not limited to SHARE attendees." But you come right back and say that it is. As to awareness of this process, there are many ways it has been brought to the public awareness. You could read IBM web sites. Cheryl Watson probably passed this on in one of Tuning newsletters. And it has been discussed here on IBM-MAIN in the past. Nobody is trying to hide anything from you or anyone else. Just keep your eyes open and pay attention and it's amazing how much you can actually learn (or at least be exposed to - it's up to you to learn). Don Imbriale >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >Of Ed Gould >Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:24 AM >To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU >Subject: Re: IBM APAR > >On Mar 13, 2006, at 8:18 AM, John Eells wrote: > >> Ed Gould wrote: >> >>> Some other sysprogs that I know don't know about it but they don't >>> go SHARE. I would hate to think that this apparently nice >>> facility is limited to SHARE attendees. I am not against this per >>> se.. >> >> C'mon, Ed. Of course it's not limited to SHARE attendees. Why >> would we want to do that? > >Well, I did not say it but the implication is there. If the >information about IBM is offering the service is limited to SHARE, >that is the implication. Since GUIDE no longer exist, IBM needs once >again to get out of its tower and get out there and tell the troops >about the new service. > *** Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. *** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
John Eells wrote: > HOLDDATA has indeed been around for quite a while (and a big improvement it was over EXCLUDE lists, too). However, Enhanced HOLDDATA, which includes HOLDs for HIPERs, has not been around for 20 years. In fact, the pre-GA pilot progam wasn't even 20 years ago (more like 12). Without digging through notes and such, my best guess is that Enhanced HOLDDATA will have something close to its 10th birthday this year. I should have mentioned, though, that SMARTMVS, on which Enhanced HOLDDATA was built, was around well before that. (SMARTMVS, including some SMP/E extensions, was available through your friendly IBM SE at the time. I'm reliably told that it dated from 1984-ish.) -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
John, What was SmartMVS? I don't recall ever hearing about that. Or maybe I just forgot. Was that something you had to pay for? Maybe it was one of those things only available at Share. (A little humour). Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer P&H Mining Equipment 414-671-7849 Milwaukee, Wisconsin - Original Message - From: John Eells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:18 pm Subject: Re: IBM APAR To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > John Eells wrote:> > I should have mentioned, though, that SMARTMVS, on which Enhanced > HOLDDATA was built, was around well before that. (SMARTMVS, > including some SMP/E extensions, was available through your > friendly IBM SE at the time. I'm reliably told that it dated > from 1984-ish.) > > -- > John Eells > z/OS Technical Marketing > IBM Poughkeepsie > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
In a message dated 3/13/2006 1:03:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What was SmartMVS? I don't recall ever hearing about that. Or maybe I just forgot. Was that something you had to pay for? Maybe it was one of those things only available at Share. (A little humour). >> Yeah, we Beta'd INFO/Access in early 80's and it was huge improvement(as long as you plugged in the right number). Regular SHARE attendee thru early 90's and I never heard of SMARTMVS either. Some rollout for INFO/Access was up against XA something JES something DFP something and something else. It was a good session with maybe 11 attendess in the 'large' conference room(350 seats). Then all the SE's went away and we were forced to forge for ourselves. IBMLink saved my bacon numerous times and it's continual improvement and evolvement was easy to follow and understand then a few years ago the PFCSKs struck again with Resource Link and ShopZ. Sometimes it even works -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 13, 2006, at 12:18 PM, John Eells wrote: John Eells wrote: > HOLDDATA has indeed been around for quite a while (and a big improvement it was over EXCLUDE lists, too). However, Enhanced HOLDDATA, which includes HOLDs for HIPERs, has not been around for 20 years. In fact, the pre-GA pilot progam wasn't even 20 years ago (more like 12). Without digging through notes and such, my best guess is that Enhanced HOLDDATA will have something close to its 10th birthday this year. I should have mentioned, though, that SMARTMVS, on which Enhanced HOLDDATA was built, was around well before that. (SMARTMVS, including some SMP/E extensions, was available through your friendly IBM SE at the time. I'm reliably told that it dated from 1984-ish.) -- John, A key point that everyone seems to be missing is that SE's (and they like) have essentially disappeared in the late 80's and early 90's. There is no longer a way that IBM can reach out to inform the "community" of good information. IBM did it to themselves when they got rid of SE's. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 13, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Imbriale, Donald (Exchange) wrote: Ed, pay attention. John could not have stated it any more clearly : "Of course it's not limited to SHARE attendees." But you come right back and say that it is. Of course the only people who know about it are SHARE people or someone that has attended SHARE and has told friends. Don't assume that if you don't attend SHARE people are suppose to know about a new offering IBM has. Since IBM as essentially disconnected itself from day to day contact with the user community (call 1-800-. for service) there is no way (that I have seen) for IBM to communicate with the typical sysprog (let alone most managers). Like I said there needs to be an avenue for communication, personally I think HOLDDATA is the best way. Then it gets to the people who need it the most although I do like the idea of flash's it needs better coverage than what it has been given. Before someone on here mentioned it I had never heard of it. I asked a couple of friends that have been in the sysproging business over 20 years and they had not heard of it either (of course they don't attend SHARE, either). This may be a fluke but somehow I don't think so. Ed --SNIP--- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed Gould > > [ snip ] > > A key point that everyone seems to be missing is that SE's (and they > like) have essentially disappeared in the late 80's and early 90's. > There is no longer a way that IBM can reach out to inform the > "community" of good information. Ever hear of the "Internet"? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
I haven't attended SHARE in 12 or more years. But somehow I found out about Red Alerts. Thanks to IBM-MAIN and Cheryl Watson and spending time reading IBM's web sites. Don Imbriale >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >Of Ed Gould >Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:38 PM >To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU >Subject: Re: IBM APAR > >On Mar 13, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Imbriale, Donald (Exchange) wrote: > > >> Ed, pay attention. John could not have stated it any more >> clearly : "Of >> course it's not limited to SHARE attendees." >> >> But you come right back and say that it is. >> > >Of course the only people who know about it are SHARE people or >someone that has attended SHARE and has told friends. Don't assume >that if you don't attend SHARE people are suppose to know about a new >offering IBM has. Since IBM as essentially disconnected itself from >day to day contact with the user community (call 1-800-. for >service) there is no way (that I have seen) for IBM to communicate >with the typical sysprog (let alone most managers). Like I said there >needs to be an avenue for communication, personally I think HOLDDATA >is the best way. Then it gets to the people who need it the most >although I do like the idea of flash's it needs better coverage than >what it has been given. Before someone on here mentioned it I had >never heard of it. I asked a couple of friends that have been in the >sysproging business over 20 years and they had not heard of it either >(of course they don't attend SHARE, either). This may be a fluke but >somehow I don't think so. > *** Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. *** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
>I haven't attended SHARE in 12 or more years. Gee Don, how's it look for Baltimore this summer? Bob Shannon -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
In a message dated 3/13/2006 2:38:58 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > There is no longer a way that IBM can reach out to inform the > "community" of good information. Ever hear of the "Internet"? Plenty of other businesses have discovered yet another way to reach their customers. It's called the mail. Sometimes "snail mail." It even works in other countries, too. I get unwanted pieces of information, probably good in their opinion, from businesses all the time in the mail box in front of my house. Bill Fairchild -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
SMARTMVS was an IBM offering apparently available in Europe. From the current SMP/E User's Guide: "The format of the HOLDDATA provided by the SMARTMVS service in Europe or the Electronic HOLDDATA service in the U.S. is not compatible with z/OS Enhanced HOLDDATA and does not take advantage of the enhanced REPORT ERRSYSMODS command. Customers who currently use these services, and who wish to make full use of the REPORT ERRSYSMODS command, must refresh their CSI's HOLDDATA with z/OS Enhanced HOLDDATA." Brian On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:02:11 -0600, Eric Bielefeld wrote: >John, > >What was SmartMVS? I don't recall ever hearing about that. Or maybe I >just forgot. Was that something you had to pay for? Maybe it was one >of those things only available at Share. (A little humour). > >Eric Bielefeld -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed Gould wrote: A key point that everyone seems to be missing is that SE's (and they like) have essentially disappeared in the late 80's and early 90's. There is no longer a way that IBM can reach out to inform the "community" of good information. IBM did it to themselves when they got rid of SE's. That was before the internet became pervasive. Now IBM web sites impart that information (and more)... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 13, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Chase, John wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed Gould [ snip ] A key point that everyone seems to be missing is that SE's (and they like) have essentially disappeared in the late 80's and early 90's. There is no longer a way that IBM can reach out to inform the "community" of good information. Ever hear of the "Internet"? John, Yea and its a pretty big place isn't it? Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:50:39 -0600, Ed Gould wrote: >On Mar 13, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Chase, John wrote: >> Ever hear of the "Internet"? > > >John, > >Yea and its a pretty big place isn't it? > >Ed But not endless: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm -- Tom Schmidt Madison, WI -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Thanks Brian. If it was only available in Europe, that would explain why I never heard of it. On the other topic about Red Alerts, I think I heard about that from one of the IBM newsletters, that are easily subscribed to. I went to sign up, and got the few that were sent out. Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer P&H Mining Equipment 414-671-7849 Milwaukee, Wisconsin - Original Message - From: Brian Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, March 13, 2006 1:47 pm Subject: Re: IBM APAR To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > SMARTMVS was an IBM offering apparently available in Europe. From the > current SMP/E User's Guide: > > "The format of the HOLDDATA provided by the SMARTMVS service in > Europe or > the Electronic HOLDDATA service in the U.S. is not compatible with > z/OSEnhanced HOLDDATA and does not take advantage of the enhanced > REPORTERRSYSMODS command. Customers who currently use these > services, and who > wish to make full use of the REPORT ERRSYSMODS command, must > refresh their > CSI's HOLDDATA with z/OS Enhanced HOLDDATA." > > Brian > > On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:02:11 -0600, Eric Bielefeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >John, > > > >What was SmartMVS? I don't recall ever hearing about that. Or > maybe I > >just forgot. Was that something you had to pay for? Maybe it > was one > >of those things only available at Share. (A little humour). > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
I went to www.ibm.com entered "red alerts" on the search box, and the first search result is a link to subscribing to Red Alerts (ok, 2 links, since the article referenced an older page, but I was redirected). Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:24 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM APAR On Mar 13, 2006, at 8:18 AM, John Eells wrote: > Ed Gould wrote: > >> Some other sysprogs that I know don't know about it but they don't go >> SHARE. I would hate to think that this apparently nice facility is >> limited to SHARE attendees. I am not against this per se.. > > C'mon, Ed. Of course it's not limited to SHARE attendees. Why would > we want to do that? Well, I did not say it but the implication is there. If the information about IBM is offering the service is limited to SHARE, that is the implication. Since GUIDE no longer exist, IBM needs once again to get out of its tower and get out there and tell the troops about the new service. Ed > >> The idea that any important piece of information should be >> disseminated as widely as possible should be the end point in this >> discussion. Since IBM has had this in place for 20 (++?) years with >> SMPHOLD data, to me makes this an ideal avenue for IBM to get >> information out to the end user (read sysprog) community. > > HOLDDATA has indeed been around for quite a while (and a big > improvement it was over EXCLUDE lists, too). > > However, Enhanced HOLDDATA, which includes HOLDs for HIPERs, has not > been around for 20 years. In fact, the pre-GA pilot progam wasn't > even 20 years ago (more like 12). Without digging through notes and > such, my best guess is that Enhanced HOLDDATA will have something > close to its 10th birthday this year. Thanks for the clarification. > >> I do like the idea of flash's but in truth over the years they never >> seemed to reach the intended community (sysprogs). > > For flashes to be effective, you have remember to go find them and > read them. Since they have been on a website for quite some time, > this is much easier than it once was. > > But I thought this discussion was about red alerts. Red alerts come > to your e-mail inbox. There is no need to go look for them. > >> IBM has consistently (and to their credit) preached the smphold >> mantra. It works. Now maybe if the flash has other audiences then it >> serves its purposes. It appears to me that the flashes can exist side >> by side with smphold data they should not be mutually exclusive, so >> what if a flash and a holddata are sent out? No one is going to >> complain. > > They are not mutually exclusive. > > SNIP--- Of course they aren't. The idea that FLASHES can be brought to the attention of the "community" is fine, but just don't assume they reach everyone. It does not hurt to have duplication (in this instance, IMO). Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
Ed I actually agree with parts of your argument but as an outsider you lose a lot of credibility with your constant negative ranting about SHARE. Was it not you who told a poster to refrain from constantly reminding us of his ex-wife? Perhaps you should heed your own advice and substitute 'ex-wife' for 'SHARE'. Put it behind you and move on. Having only attended SHARE once in the past 10 years I still manage to avail myself of the information that is out there be it via the internet or otherwise. However, and this is where I share (pun intended) your feelings. IBM lost a great deal when in the 80's they swapped the role of SE (systems engineer) with that of SE (sales expediter). Sadly they lost even more when the dropped the role altogether because the latter SE, whilst less qualified than their predecessor, still maintained an open line of communications with the customer. That line of communication has now gone completely which is a great pity. There is now no consistency in how customers receive information or in the information received. Jim S. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: 14 March 2006 04:38 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM APAR On Mar 13, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Imbriale, Donald (Exchange) wrote: > Ed, pay attention. John could not have stated it any more > clearly : "Of > course it's not limited to SHARE attendees." > > But you come right back and say that it is. > Of course the only people who know about it are SHARE people or someone that has attended SHARE and has told friends. Don't assume that if you don't attend SHARE people are suppose to know about a new offering IBM has. Since IBM as essentially disconnected itself from day to day contact with the user community (call 1-800-. for service) there is no way (that I have seen) for IBM to communicate with the typical sysprog (let alone most managers). Like I said there needs to be an avenue for communication, personally I think HOLDDATA is the best way. Then it gets to the people who need it the most although I do like the idea of flash's it needs better coverage than what it has been given. Before someone on here mentioned it I had never heard of it. I asked a couple of friends that have been in the sysproging business over 20 years and they had not heard of it either (of course they don't attend SHARE, either). This may be a fluke but somehow I don't think so. Ed > --SNIP--- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 13, 2006, at 3:52 PM, Edward E. Jaffe wrote: Ed Gould wrote: A key point that everyone seems to be missing is that SE's (and they like) have essentially disappeared in the late 80's and early 90's. There is no longer a way that IBM can reach out to inform the "community" of good information. IBM did it to themselves when they got rid of SE's. That was before the internet became pervasive. Now IBM web sites impart that information (and more)... Ed, Valid point but nowhere did I say all SE's were goodness. I can remember a few bad ones (like I am sure we can all talk about). I also can remember some excellent ones. Frankly I can also tell you about really really bad ones. But at least you could talk to the account rep and have them moved. Now we are lucky to have a 1-800 number. I was at a rather large account and was there for a year before I even heard that we had a IBM person. The next time I think I saw her was at a DR test (at IBM). IBM did buy dinner for us then (thanks). Oh yes I do remember talking with her about getting support for ICSF and was told it would cost $$. But I digress. No it wasn't all goody goody in the old days. Frankly I don't think IBM would be where they were today without SE's . When they eliminated them (for all intent purposes) they started the the clock. TICK TICK TOC. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 13, 2006, at 5:42 PM, Wayne Driscoll wrote: I went to www.ibm.com entered "red alerts" on the search box, and the first search result is a link to subscribing to Red Alerts (ok, 2 links, since the article referenced an older page, but I was redirected). Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. ===SNIP+ Here is problem is if you didn't know about "red alerts" the phrase is not the usual IBM "babble" hipers yes nearly everyone knows what a hiper apar is not red alerts that is almost a foreign dialect. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
On Mar 13, 2006, at 8:10 PM, James Smith wrote: Ed I actually agree with parts of your argument but as an outsider you lose a lot of credibility with your constant negative ranting about SHARE. Was it not you who told a poster to refrain from constantly reminding us of his ex-wife? Perhaps you should heed your own advice and substitute 'ex-wife' for 'SHARE'. Put it behind you and move on. -SNIP Huh??? That went overboard there. No where did I say anything bad about SHARE, if I did say anything bad, I apologize. IIRC my comments were directed at IBM not about SHARE. I won't rehash the comments but will say that IBM (in general) is forgetting the average Joe (or Jill) sysprog. It is they that man the fort against the daily onslaught of telephone calls from programmers & operators and yes managers. They seem to forget its not all about SHARE but the rest of the 99+ percent who don't get to SHARE. If that is saying something bad about SHARE, sorry I plead not guilty. Is the implication that SHARE is doing something wrong, no, because it is IBM's responsibility to communicate the right information to everyone. In the "old" days the account rep/SE/PSR/CE had the job and it worked sort of OK. Was it efficient? No probably not. But at our account it worked well. IBM (IMO) has lost touch and is trying to get back to 20 years ago. They probably won''t succeed. This red flash thing is an attempt and it is a step in the right direction, they (IBM) just need to get the word out a lot better. IBMLINK is a step in the right direction. Although its mainly aimed at sysprogs, I won't even try and guess how many sysprogs don't have access. I still don't see what is wrong with enhanced holddata. Of course that doesn't do 100 percent either as some sysprogs and other types that need the information never see SMP/e. EMAIL is not an answer either as I do know sysprogs that do not have email (those lucky guys). If anyone else can come up with a suggestion, please share (no pun intended). Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM APAR
(sorry if multiple posts appear - changed newsreader - sigh) SMARTMVS was developed in Europe just about the time IBM was making the MVS CBIPO ready for delivery (1984/85). If was picked up by Software CE and distributed to customers (free of charge - even to non-Share members :-). Weekly updates of HOLD Data. As a first the distribution contained ++HOLDs for ++FUNCTIONs (to get attention to possible installation issues) - required you to receive HOLDs after SMP/E receive of new products. The trigger for development was actually an (IBM) internal debate over software maintenance philosophy. It was described in a redbook written later on the subject of 'MVS Software Management'. Birger Heede IBM Software Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, What was SmartMVS? I don't recall ever hearing about that. Or maybe I just forgot. Was that something you had to pay for? Maybe it was one of those things only available at Share. (A little humour). Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer P&H Mining Equipment 414-671-7849 Milwaukee, Wisconsin - Original Message - From: John Eells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:18 pm Subject: Re: IBM APAR To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU John Eells wrote:> I should have mentioned, though, that SMARTMVS, on which Enhanced HOLDDATA was built, was around well before that. (SMARTMVS, including some SMP/E extensions, was available through your friendly IBM SE at the time. I'm reliably told that it dated from 1984-ish.) -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
