Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
Kelman, Tom wrote: John, I believe that your statements would hold true if you were comparing an IFL on the z9 against the p6. As I understand it the p6 chip is a 1.8Ghz chip and the z9 IFL has a 1.2Ghz chip. AFAIK it's not, P6 rating is over 4GHz. However it doesn't matter. Comparing processor speed by comparison of cycle time is bad idea. It is enough to mention Intel cpu's (the same architecture!) when newer chip has more computing power at the same MHz speed. For example: 486DX4-100 and Pentium100. More, it is possible that OS will perform better on given processor architecture. Not necessarily because the architecture is better, it can be effect of knowledge of the autors, amount of work dedicated to performance issues, years of experience, etc. In this case it's even more complex: Two similar, but different OSes: AIX and Linux. Last - the application can be biased to given architecture. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2008 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA wynosi 118.642.672 zote i zosta w caoci wpacony. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
John, I believe that your statements would hold true if you were comparing an IFL on the z9 against the p6. As I understand it the p6 chip is a 1.8Ghz chip and the z9 IFL has a 1.2Ghz chip. So if you move from an AIX server using the p6 chip to LINUX on a z9 IFL you'd be losing some power. However, the IFL on the z10 has a 4.4Ghz chip in it. Based on that theoretically you could move about 2.4 full Power 595 servers to an IFL on the z10. At least you should be able to make the move at a 2 to 1 ratio. Tom Kelman Tommy Tsui wrote: Hi all, As I heard from IBM, Bank of Tokyo just completed their big project to migrate a thousand of server to a z9 using IFL linux. They show me the migration powerpoint (seems quite successful) Anyone know about this task? Any shop is doing the same thing? What's the upgrade path for existing p595, migrate to z9 using IFL or p6? any comment will be appreciated Tommy John Giltner wrote: I would assume you would move to the newly announced Power servers. There is a Power 595 which uses p6. From what little I have read it is just a renamed p595 that use the p6 chip instead of the p5. Depending on what you are doing, I don't know if converting your applications from AIX to Linux and running on IFL's would get you anything. Converting/migrating to Linux on IFL's is generally a benefit if you have a lot of servers doing next to nothing, or that are running on older and much less powerful platforms. At one time I believe IBM's recommendation was for every 15-20 Intel CPU's averaging 5% busy you need at least one IFL. That was for a z900 or z990 though. I don't know what it may be for a z9 or even a z10. I do know that for software pricing a IFL is 100 value units for z990 and z9's and for a z10 they rate it at 120 value units. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
The z6 Chip is 4.2 gh, the p6 chip is 4.4 gh. The p5 chips are plus/minus 2 gh IIRC. snip I believe that your statements would hold true if you were comparing an IFL on the z9 against the p6. As I understand it the p6 chip is a 1.8Ghz chip and the z9 IFL has a 1.2Ghz chip. So if you move from an AIX server using the p6 chip to LINUX on a z9 IFL you'd be losing some power. However, the IFL on the z10 has a 4.4Ghz chip in it. Based on that theoretically you could move about 2.4 full Power 595 servers to an IFL on the z10. At least you should be able to make the move at a 2 to 1 ratio. /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
I believe that your statements would hold true if you were comparing an IFL on the z9 against the p6. As I understand it the p6 chip is a 1.8Ghz chip and the z9 IFL has a 1.2Ghz chip. So if you move from an AIX server using the p6 chip to LINUX on a z9 IFL you'd be losing some power. You're comparing apples to tomatoes. AIX servers are considered to be running 'hot' at over 15% busy. IFL's can run flat out, so you can virtualise many more servers than your proposed ratios. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 09:12 -0500, Kelman, Tom wrote: As I understand it the p6 chip is a 1.8Ghz chip and the z9 IFL has a 1.2Ghz chip. So if you move from an AIX server using the p6 chip to LINUX on a z9 IFL you'd be losing some power. Not on the basis of internal clock rate! Those two processors are vastly different under the covers. You CAN'T use GHz numbers to compare unlike processors -- period. (BTW, that's why AMD can make competitive chips with slower clock rates. But due to PHBs and others naively comparing GHz, AMD gives their chips names that vaguely relate to the competition's clock rates.) -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
Kelman, Tom wrote: John, I believe that your statements would hold true if you were comparing an IFL on the z9 against the p6. As I understand it the p6 chip is a 1.8Ghz chip and the z9 IFL has a 1.2Ghz chip. So if you move from an AIX server using the p6 chip to LINUX on a z9 IFL you'd be losing some power. However, the IFL on the z10 has a 4.4Ghz chip in it. Based on that theoretically you could move about 2.4 full Power 595 servers to an IFL on the z10. At least you should be able to make the move at a 2 to 1 ratio. Tom Kelman Even if you could compare Ghz to Ghz the latest p6's run at 4.6 and 5 Ghz. However comparing Ghz to Ghz is like comparing car engine performance based on RPMs. Just because one car engine turns faster than another does not mean it is better performing. I mean do you really believe that you could migrate the work load from a 3-way z9 down to a 1-way 3.2 Ghz XEON? Well, depending on what the work load is you might be able to, but for the most part I would think not. Intel/AMD, Power, and zSeries are all designed with different architectures and therefore even at the same Ghz ratings get different throughput on different benchmarks (if you could find a common benchmark that has been run on all 3 platforms). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy Tsui Sent: Sunday, 20 April 2008 9:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6 Hi all, As I heard from IBM, Bank of Tokyo just completed their big project to migrate a thousand of server to a z9 using IFL linux. They show me the migration powerpoint (seems quite successful) Anyone know about this task? Any shop is doing the same thing? What's the upgrade path for existing p595, migrate to z9 using IFL or p6? any comment will be appreciated Tommy Hi Tommy. What you describe is something that IBM has been pushing for quite some time now. I believe they've been very successful in Europe as well as the US. I don't think it's really taken off in Asia/Pacific and perhaps that's why IBM are spreading the news about the Bank of Tokyo. If searinching the intenet, some names to go looking for are NEXXAR Group and First National Bank of Omaha. Take a look at the latest IBM Systems Magazine for mainframe, there's an interesting article on server consolidation using the mainframe: http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/marchapril08/administrator/19608printp1.as px There's also a case study involving Baldor Electric who undertook a server consolidation. Look for the story titled An Electrifying Solution, mind you it does also feature their use of FDR/UPSTREAM for backup consolidation: http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/index.aspx Stephen Mednick Computer Supervisory Services Sydney, Australia -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM propose to migrate all servers to z10 , what's the upgrade path for p595 or p6
Tommy Tsui wrote: Hi all, As I heard from IBM, Bank of Tokyo just completed their big project to migrate a thousand of server to a z9 using IFL linux. They show me the migration powerpoint (seems quite successful) Anyone know about this task? Any shop is doing the same thing? What's the upgrade path for existing p595, migrate to z9 using IFL or p6? any comment will be appreciated Tommy I would assume you would move to the newly announced Power servers. There is a Power 595 which uses p6. From what little I have read it is just a renamed p595 that use the p6 chip instead of the p5. Depending on what you are doing, I don't know if converting your applications from AIX to Linux and running on IFL's would get you anything. Converting/migrating to Linux on IFL's is generally a benefit if you have a lot of servers doing next to nothing, or that are running on older and much less powerful platforms. At one time I believe IBM's recommendation was for every 15-20 Intel CPU's averaging 5% busy you need at least one IFL. That was for a z900 or z990 though. I don't know what it may be for a z9 or even a z10. I do know that for software pricing a IFL is 100 value units for z990 and z9's and for a z10 they rate it at 120 value units. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
