Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:04:48 -0500, zMan wrote: http://travelonthedollar.com/2011/06/28/samoa-will-lose-a-day-in-december/ Even things like billing a hotel stay that spans the change could be interesting! A lot of systems appear not to have got it right. About now, OS X, a couple of Linux systems, and Solaris are telling me something such as: 507 $ TZ=Pacific/Pago_Pago date Fri Dec 30 03:58:06 SST 2011 Yummy; crow! I'll watch to see who figures it out first. Could STP/ETR have been programmed in advance so that 0.01 second before midnight TIME TZ=LOCAL would have returned 111363 23:59:59.99; 0.01 second after 111365 00:00:00.01 with no need for an operator's pressing the button at the critical instant? (Was this in fact done at sites in Samoa?) -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
In p06240803cb16cda5395b@[192.168.1.11], on 12/20/2011 at 06:47 PM, Robert A. Rosenberg hal9...@panix.com said: (unless Gilbert goofed and counted the non-existent February 29, 1900). A minor gaff if he did, since an error of 4 years would hot have affected Frederick's plight. A more serious gaff is that forced marriages were no longer legal, although the songs are compelling enough that I don't worry about it while listening to the music. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
At 02:56 -0500 on 12/21/2011, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote about Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production: In p06240803cb16cda5395b@[192.168.1.11], on 12/20/2011 at 06:47 PM, Robert A. Rosenberg hal9...@panix.com said: (unless Gilbert goofed and counted the non-existent February 29, 1900). A minor gaff if he did, since an error of 4 years would hot have affected Frederick's plight. A more serious gaff is that forced marriages were no longer legal, although the songs are compelling enough that I don't worry about it while listening to the music. The plight would not be affected by if 1900 was a leap year or not. The point was his comment about having to wait until 1940 to be free of his indentures. If you check out the story I mentioned (which appears in one of the Black Widower anthologies) the question of when the story takes place is addressed (and thus if he was born in 1856 or 1852 - 84 or 88 years prior to the 21st Birthday year of 1940). There is an analysis of the rest of the dialog/lyrics to see evidence for when the action was occurring. As was normal for Dr. Asimov he does a good job on the analysis of the evidence before delivering his result. I will leave it up to anyone who is interested to read the story and agree or disagree with his view. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
In f255efe0ecf08c4a9c1db6aff423541717de3...@ch2wpmail1.na.ds.ussco.com, on 12/19/2011 at 01:47 PM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com said: Why not specify the epoch origin as the Big Bang? Because there are insurmountable theoretical difficulties in clock synchronization and insurmountable practical difficulties in getting an exact date for something billions of years in the past. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
In 20111219091748.715752d5f...@urania.ugcs.caltech.edu, on 12/19/2011 at 01:17 AM, glen herrmannsfeldt g...@ugcs.caltech.edu said: But if I understand it right, the date is computed from the value in the interval timer, along with various offsets, only when it is actually needed. Do you really want to know about the 6-hour pseudo clock (SHPC) and the 24-hour pseudo clock (THPC)? With the TOD clock of S/370, For OS/360 or for OS/VS? Google for Chimera, or for Rube Goldberg. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
In cajtoo5_sojvvt4dmwbn6pa6wb5gk92jq56vwuk4qez6viv0...@mail.gmail.com, on 12/19/2011 at 02:03 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said: Actually, I think they are going to have to downgrade the Big Bang (creating all matter and the Universe) to a Large Bang (creating known matter withing 15 billion light years but within an existing universe past that point). First they'd have to throw out the known data. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
That is where the Modified Julian Date comes in by subtracting 1/2 day os 0.000 is midnight and 0.500 is noon. Swatch time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time and watchs are almost the same thing, but they are using Central Europe time of UTC+1. 0100Z = @000 On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Joel C. Ewing jcew...@acm.org wrote: On 12/19/2011 11:53 AM, Mike Schwab wrote: How about the Julian Day as used by astronomers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day Julian day is used in the Julian date (JD) system of time measurement for scientific use by the astronomy community, presenting the interval of time in days and fractions of a day since January 1, 4713 BC Greenwich noon. Julian date is recommended for astronomical use by the International Astronomical Union. Almost 2.5 million Julian days have elapsed since the initial epoch. JDN 2,400,000 was November 16, 1858. JD 2,500,000.0 will occur on August 31, 2132 at noon UT. (Often .leading 2.4 million is assumed and the low order 5 digits is used.) Time is expressed as a fraction of a day. 0.1 day = 2.4 hours, 0.01 = 14.4 minutes. 0.001 = 1.44 minutes, 0.1 = 0.864 seconds. x.000 is Noon UT 1200Z Modified Julian Date subtracts 0.5 so x.000 is Midnight UT Z. On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Paul Gilmartinpaulgboul...@aim.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:44:00 -0600, Chase, John wrote: Perhaps the world's eventual conversion to Star Date (or similar) will be less confusing and disruptive :-) Ummm... NVFL. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardate -- gil Usage of Julian Day will never catch on with non-astronomers for one simple reason not yet mentioned - its formal definition requires the date change to occur at noon, not midnight. That makes much sense for astronomers that work through the night and sleep during the day, but is a terrible fit for people and businesses that have to deal with normal work hours and who would never tolerate the same period of daylight being called by two different dates. -- Joel C. Ewing, Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
At 20:38 -0600 on 12/16/2011, Chris Mason wrote about Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production: Mike Just think about all the people born on Feb 29th. They would have their 15th birthdate when they are 60 years old. Paradoxically a 29th February birthday can have happy consequences - at least in the fertile imagination of a writer of libretti for comic opera such as William Schwenck Gilbert: quote You are the victim of this clumsy arrangement, having been born in leap-year, on the twenty-ninth of February; And so, by a simple arithmetical process, you¹ll easily discover, That though you¹ve lived twenty-one years, yet, if we go by birthdays, you¹re only five and a little bit over! /quote http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/pirates/web_op/pirates18.html Chris Mason But when was he born? While the 21st birthday is supposed to occur in 1940, will he be 84 or 88 then? The year 1900 was NOT a leap year so he would need to wait from 1896 until 1904 for his next birthday (unless Gilbert goofed and counted the non-existent February 29, 1900). See Isaac Asimov's Black Widower Year of the Action for details. On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:09:21 -0600, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: They would have their 15th birthdate when they are 60 years old. On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Tom Marchant m42tom-ibmm...@yahoo.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:57:14 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: At least they only loose 1 birthday a lifetime. Just think about all the people born on Feb 29th. The 60th day of the year? What's the big deal with that? -- Tom Marchant -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
At 22:44 -0600 on 12/18/2011, David Mierowsky wrote about Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production: At least they didn't have to deal with this! Thankfully this was sorted out long before computers were around! The Changes of 1752 In accordance with a 1750 act of Parliament, England and its colonies changed calendars in 1752. By that time, the discrepancy between a solar year and the Julian Calendar had grown by an additional day, so that the calendar used in England and its colonies was 11 days out-of-sync with the Gregorian Calendar in use in most other parts of Europe. England's calendar change included three major components. The Julian Calendar was replaced by the Gregorian Calendar, changing the formula for calculating leap years. The beginning of the legal new year was moved from March 25 to January 1. Finally, 11 days were dropped from the month of September 1752. The changeover involved a series of steps: December 31, 1750 was followed by January 1, 1750 (under the Old Style calendar, December was the 10th month and January the 11th) March 24, 1750 was followed by March 25, 1751 (March 25 was the first day of the Old Style year) December 31, 1751 was followed by January 1, 1752 (the switch from March 25 to January 1 as the first day of the year) September 2, 1752 was followed by September 14, 1752 (drop of 11 days to conform to the Gregorian calendar) You forgot step 4 which were the riots when the landlords charged a full 3 month rent for the July-September 1752 quarter instead of giving a rebate for the non-existent 11 days in the quarter. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Robert A. Rosenberg hal9...@panix.com wrote: At 20:38 -0600 on 12/16/2011, Chris Mason wrote about Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production: Paradoxically a 29th February birthday can have happy consequences - at least in the fertile imagination of a writer of libretti for comic opera such as William Schwenck Gilbert: quote You are the victim of this clumsy arrangement, having been born in leap-year, on the twenty-ninth of February; And so, by a simple arithmetical process, youšll easily discover, That though youšve lived twenty-one years, yet, if we go by birthdays, youšre only five and a little bit over! /quote http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/pirates/web_op/pirates18.html Chris Mason But when was he born? While the 21st birthday is supposed to occur in 1940, will he be 84 or 88 then? The year 1900 was NOT a leap year so he would need to wait from 1896 until 1904 for his next birthday (unless Gilbert goofed and counted the non-existent February 29, 1900). See Isaac Asimov's Black Widower Year of the Action for details. That depends on where he is living. The Orthodox in Eastern Europe (Greece, Russia, etc) was still on the Julian calender and they DID have February 29, 1900. There was a lot of Passport / Visa mixups from the 11/12 day difference between calenders for those coming from America and Western Europe. to the Greece Olympics. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
(snip, someone wrote) The changeover involved a series of steps: December 31, 1750 was followed by January 1, 1750 (under the Old Style calendar, Dec ember was the 10th month and January the 11th) March 24, 1750 was followed by March 25, 1751 (March 25 was the first day of the Old Style year) December 31, 1751 was followed by January 1, 1752 (the switch from March 25 to January 1 as the first day of the year) September 2, 1752 was followed by September 14, 1752 (drop of 11 days to conform to the Gregorian calendar) Reminds be of discussions about the way OS/360 keeps track of the data. There is a comment in Brooks' Mythical Man Month, something like the waste of 26 bytes required to change the date at the end of the year, something that the operator could do. Well, that is without looking it up. But if I understand it right, the date is computed from the value in the interval timer, along with various offsets, only when it is actually needed. Nothing special actually happens at midnight on Dec. 31st. In the case of a more complicated formula for determining the date, it only needs to be added to the date calculation routine, and runs when one actually needs the date. With a few comparisons and offsets it wouldn't seem so hard. With the TOD clock of S/370, one would just compute the date based on the current value, and again nothing special happens at midnight Dec. 31st. -- glen -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of J R pour people? - what, you mean like bartenders? Must be the same kind of folks who pour over a manual in detail. (What do they pour over the manual, and how does that help discern details?) And loose used as a verb does not have the same meaning as lose, as the context of the sentence seems to require -jc- Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:20:54 -0600 From: jonathan.goos...@assurant.com Subject: Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu And what about the pour people who will loose a birthday? Thank you and have a Terrific day! Jonathan Goossen, ACG, CL For help with communication and leadership skills checkout Woodwinds Toastmasters -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of David Mierowsky At least they didn't have to deal with this! Thankfully this was sorted out long before computers were around! The Changes of 1752 In accordance with a 1750 act of Parliament, England and its colonies changed calendars in 1752. By that time, the discrepancy between a solar year and the Julian Calendar had grown by an additional day, so that the calendar used in England and its colonies was 11 days out-of-sync with the Gregorian Calendar in use in most other parts of Europe. England's calendar change included three major components. The Julian Calendar was replaced by the Gregorian Calendar, changing the formula for calculating leap years. The beginning of the legal new year was moved from March 25 to January 1. Finally, 11 days were dropped from the month of September 1752. The changeover involved a series of steps: *December 31, 1750 was followed by January 1, 1750 (under the Old Style calendar, December was the 10th month and January the 11th) *March 24, 1750 was followed by March 25, 1751 (March 25 was the first day of the Old Style year) *December 31, 1751 was followed by January 1, 1752 (the switch from March 25 to January 1 as the first day of the year) *September 2, 1752 was followed by September 14, 1752 (drop of 11 days to conform to the Gregorian calendar) Perhaps the world's eventual conversion to Star Date (or similar) will be less confusing and disruptive :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:44:00 -0600, Chase, John wrote: Perhaps the world's eventual conversion to Star Date (or similar) will be less confusing and disruptive :-) Ummm... NVFL. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardate -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On 12/19/2011 4:17 AM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: But if I understand it right, the date is computed from the value in the interval timer, along with various offsets, only when it is actually needed. Nothing special actually happens at midnight on Dec. 31st. Which is not how I remember it. The interval timer is set to pop at midnight, and that updates CVTDATE appropriately. I do recall an admonition that near midnight to use SVC 11 for the date, rather than CVTDATE, to get a synchronized value, as there was some latency in the date update. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
How about the Julian Day as used by astronomers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day Julian day is used in the Julian date (JD) system of time measurement for scientific use by the astronomy community, presenting the interval of time in days and fractions of a day since January 1, 4713 BC Greenwich noon. Julian date is recommended for astronomical use by the International Astronomical Union. Almost 2.5 million Julian days have elapsed since the initial epoch. JDN 2,400,000 was November 16, 1858. JD 2,500,000.0 will occur on August 31, 2132 at noon UT. (Often .leading 2.4 million is assumed and the low order 5 digits is used.) Time is expressed as a fraction of a day. 0.1 day = 2.4 hours, 0.01 = 14.4 minutes. 0.001 = 1.44 minutes, 0.1 = 0.864 seconds. x.000 is Noon UT 1200Z Modified Julian Date subtracts 0.5 so x.000 is Midnight UT Z. On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:44:00 -0600, Chase, John wrote: Perhaps the world's eventual conversion to Star Date (or similar) will be less confusing and disruptive :-) Ummm... NVFL. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardate -- gil -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
Mike Schwab's Wikipedia quote: | Julian day is used in the Julian date (JD) system of time measurement | for scientific use by the astronomy community, presenting the interval | of time in days and fractions of a day since January 1, 4713 BC | Greenwich noon. Julian date is recommended for astronomical use by the | International Astronomical Union. is perhaps a little misleading. The epoch origin specified, noon, January 1, 4713 BCE, is a Julian-calendar date. The correct epoch origin in our now standard calendar, specified as a proleptic Gregorian-calendar date, is noon, November 24, -4713. Moreover, both calendars in this scientific context have a zero-th year. They do not use the traditional sequence . . . , 2BC, 1BC, AD 1, AD 2, . . . because it use would complicate calendrical arithmetic gratuitously. They use the year-number sequence . . . , -2, -1, 0, +1, + 2, . . . instead. In fact day-number epoch-origin choices are unimportant if the one being used is identified unambiguously. To convert a JD, Julian Day, into a GD, Gregorian Day, one simply subtracts 1_721_424.5 from the JD; to convert a GD into an ID, Islamic Day, one subtracts 227_015 (The GD of +622 July 19, the epoch origin of the Islamic lunar calendar) from the GD; etc., etc. The use of day numbers trivializes calendar arithmetic. Computer systems should use only day numbers internally, displaying or printing Gregorian dates , Bahà'i dates, Islamic dates, Mayan dates, and the like externally as appropriate. In this sense, among others, most of the Y2K expenditures of large organizations were botched. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab How about the Julian Day as used by astronomers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day Julian day is used in the Julian date (JD) system of time measurement for scientific use by the astronomy community, presenting the interval of time in days and fractions of a day since January 1, 4713 BC Greenwich noon. Julian date is recommended for astronomical use by the International Astronomical Union. What's magic about -4713/01/01? Why not specify the epoch origin as the Big Bang? What would today's Big Bang day number be? :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab How about the Julian Day as used by astronomers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day Julian day is used in the Julian date (JD) system of time measurement for scientific use by the astronomy community, presenting the interval of time in days and fractions of a day since January 1, 4713 BC Greenwich noon. Julian date is recommended for astronomical use by the International Astronomical Union. What's magic about -4713/01/01? Why not specify the epoch origin as the Big Bang? What would today's Big Bang day number be? :-) -jc- Add about 15 billion years, or 5,48 Billion days to the front of the Julian Day. Like the Dinosaur skeleton that is 65,000,010 years old. (Tour guide: It was 65 million years old when I got here 10 years ago.) Actually, I think they are going to have to downgrade the Big Bang (creating all matter and the Universe) to a Large Bang (creating known matter withing 15 billion light years but within an existing universe past that point). -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
Multiply approximately 365.25 by approximately 15 (American) billion. The result, 5.47875 times ten to the twelfth power (American trillion) will still fit in a 64-bit register. And there's even room in the register to double it (for plus and minus) and throw in one more for the year zero. Here is the origin of choosing 4713 B.C.: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=88 Bill Fairchild -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab How about the Julian Day as used by astronomers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day Julian day is used in the Julian date (JD) system of time measurement for scientific use by the astronomy community, presenting the interval of time in days and fractions of a day since January 1, 4713 BC Greenwich noon. Julian date is recommended for astronomical use by the International Astronomical Union. What's magic about -4713/01/01? Why not specify the epoch origin as the Big Bang? What would today's Big Bang day number be? :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: What's magic about -4713/01/01? Why not specify the epoch origin as the Big Bang? What would today's Big Bang day number be? http://www.hebcal.com/ Mon, 19 December 2011 - 23rd of Kislev, 5772 5772 years ago would be 3761 BC. Close, but no cigar. Ah, found it. http://www.tondering.dk/claus/cal/julperiod.php Why 4713 BC and why 7980 years? Well, in 4713 BC the Indiction, the Golden Number and the Solar Number were all 1. The next times this happens is 15×19×28=7980 years later, in AD 3268. Kind of like the Mayan Calendar. One cycle ends Dec 21, 2012 and the next one starts. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On 12/19/2011 11:53 AM, Mike Schwab wrote: How about the Julian Day as used by astronomers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day Julian day is used in the Julian date (JD) system of time measurement for scientific use by the astronomy community, presenting the interval of time in days and fractions of a day since January 1, 4713 BC Greenwich noon. Julian date is recommended for astronomical use by the International Astronomical Union. Almost 2.5 million Julian days have elapsed since the initial epoch. JDN 2,400,000 was November 16, 1858. JD 2,500,000.0 will occur on August 31, 2132 at noon UT. (Often .leading 2.4 million is assumed and the low order 5 digits is used.) Time is expressed as a fraction of a day. 0.1 day = 2.4 hours, 0.01 = 14.4 minutes. 0.001 = 1.44 minutes, 0.1 = 0.864 seconds. x.000 is Noon UT 1200Z Modified Julian Date subtracts 0.5 so x.000 is Midnight UT Z. On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Paul Gilmartinpaulgboul...@aim.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:44:00 -0600, Chase, John wrote: Perhaps the world's eventual conversion to Star Date (or similar) will be less confusing and disruptive :-) Ummm... NVFL. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardate -- gil Usage of Julian Day will never catch on with non-astronomers for one simple reason not yet mentioned - its formal definition requires the date change to occur at noon, not midnight. That makes much sense for astronomers that work through the night and sleep during the day, but is a terrible fit for people and businesses that have to deal with normal work hours and who would never tolerate the same period of daylight being called by two different dates. -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
At least they didn't have to deal with this! Thankfully this was sorted out long before computers were around! The Changes of 1752 In accordance with a 1750 act of Parliament, England and its colonies changed calendars in 1752. By that time, the discrepancy between a solar year and the Julian Calendar had grown by an additional day, so that the calendar used in England and its colonies was 11 days out-of-sync with the Gregorian Calendar in use in most other parts of Europe. England's calendar change included three major components. The Julian Calendar was replaced by the Gregorian Calendar, changing the formula for calculating leap years. The beginning of the legal new year was moved from March 25 to January 1. Finally, 11 days were dropped from the month of September 1752. The changeover involved a series of steps: December 31, 1750 was followed by January 1, 1750 (under the Old Style calendar, December was the 10th month and January the 11th) March 24, 1750 was followed by March 25, 1751 (March 25 was the first day of the Old Style year) December 31, 1751 was followed by January 1, 1752 (the switch from March 25 to January 1 as the first day of the year) September 2, 1752 was followed by September 14, 1752 (drop of 11 days to conform to the Gregorian calendar) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
And what about the pour people who will loose a birthday? Thank you and have a Terrific day! Jonathan Goossen, ACG, CL For help with communication and leadership skills checkout Woodwinds Toastmasters IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 12/15/2011 03:04:48 PM: From: zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 12/15/2011 03:30 PM Subject: Imagine dealing with THIS in production Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu http://travelonthedollar.com/2011/06/28/samoa-will-lose-a-day-in-december/ Even things like billing a hotel stay that spans the change could be interesting! -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, forwarding or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On 12/16/2011 12:20 PM, Jonathan Goossen wrote: And what about the pour people who will loose a birthday? Whoa! Is it happy hour already? Thank you and have a Terrific day! Jonathan Goossen, ACG, CL For help with communication and leadership skills checkout Woodwinds Toastmasters IBM Mainframe Discussion ListIBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 12/15/2011 03:04:48 PM: From: zManzedgarhoo...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 12/15/2011 03:30 PM Subject: Imagine dealing with THIS in production Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion ListIBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu http://travelonthedollar.com/2011/06/28/samoa-will-lose-a-day-in-december/ Even things like billing a hotel stay that spans the change could be interesting! -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, forwarding or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
pour people? - what, you mean like bartenders? Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:20:54 -0600 From: jonathan.goos...@assurant.com Subject: Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu And what about the pour people who will loose a birthday? Thank you and have a Terrific day! Jonathan Goossen, ACG, CL For help with communication and leadership skills checkout Woodwinds Toastmasters -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
At least they only loose 1 birthday a lifetime. Just think about all the people born on Feb 29th. On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Jonathan Goossen jonathan.goos...@assurant.com wrote: And what about the pour people who will loose a birthday? Thank you and have a Terrific day! Jonathan Goossen, ACG, CL For help with communication and leadership skills checkout Woodwinds -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:57:14 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: At least they only loose 1 birthday a lifetime. Just think about all the people born on Feb 29th. The 60th day of the year? What's the big deal with that? -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
They would have their 15th birthdate when they are 60 years old. On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Tom Marchant m42tom-ibmm...@yahoo.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:57:14 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: At least they only loose 1 birthday a lifetime. Just think about all the people born on Feb 29th. The 60th day of the year? What's the big deal with that? -- Tom Marchant -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
Mike Just think about all the people born on Feb 29th. They would have their 15th birthdate when they are 60 years old. Paradoxically a 29th February birthday can have happy consequences - at least in the fertile imagination of a writer of libretti for comic opera such as William Schwenck Gilbert: quote You are the victim of this clumsy arrangement, having been born in leap-year, on the twenty-ninth of February; And so, by a simple arithmetical process, youll easily discover, That though youve lived twenty-one years, yet, if we go by birthdays, youre only five and a little bit over! /quote http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/pirates/web_op/pirates18.html Chris Mason On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:09:21 -0600, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: They would have their 15th birthdate when they are 60 years old. On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Tom Marchant m42tom-ibmm...@yahoo.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:57:14 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: At least they only loose 1 birthday a lifetime. Just think about all the people born on Feb 29th. The 60th day of the year? What's the big deal with that? -- Tom Marchant -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Imagine dealing with THIS in production
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:04:48 -0500, zMan wrote: http://travelonthedollar.com/2011/06/28/samoa-will-lose-a-day-in-december/ Even things like billing a hotel stay that spans the change could be interesting! And, if they think of it, this will be their last chance to switch the TOD on their z from local time to GMT without shutting down for 11 hours or creating ambiguous time stamps. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
