Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
Regarding same ISV products in a common zone. Some products I have seen in the past have intersecting modules and can result in issues depending on the final linklist order. Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Best Overall Third-Party Claims Administrator - 2007 Business Insurance Readers Choice Awards Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
It is also worth remembering that although the ISV can request a three-character element prefix from the IBM registry - there is no guarantee that all ISVs are adhering to the same standard. Also, even if all parties are using their element prefixes - what about the associated PTF and APAR names ? For the above two reasons, I always advise customers to install MXI into its own TGT and DLIB zones - however the final choice is always down to them. Rob Scott Rocket Software, Inc 275 Grove Street Newton, MA 02466 617-614-2305 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel McLaughlin Sent: 14 April 2008 11:55 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements) Regarding same ISV products in a common zone. Some products I have seen in the past have intersecting modules and can result in issues depending on the final linklist order. Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Best Overall Third-Party Claims Administrator - 2007 Business Insurance Readers Choice Awards Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
snippage For the above two reasons, I always advise customers to install MXI into its own TGT and DLIB zones - however the final choice is always down to them. end of snippage Would rather spend an extra few hundred cylinders of space and isolate my products than mix them up and try to undo a Gordian knot. Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Best Overall Third-Party Claims Administrator - 2007 Business Insurance Readers Choice Awards Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 04/10/2008 at 08:08 AM, Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Keep in mind that ServerPac is an SMP/E bypass. It _restores_ SMP/E zones rather than installing into them. Keep in mind that you are talking about a specific step within ServerPac, not about the services that ServerPac provides for constructing dialogs. I don't believe that Art suggested that ISV's should use the existing ServerPac jobs, just the structure that manages them. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:50:47 -0300, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 04/10/2008 at 08:08 AM, Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Keep in mind that ServerPac is an SMP/E bypass. It _restores_ SMP/E zones rather than installing into them. Keep in mind that you are talking about a specific step within ServerPac, not about the services that ServerPac provides for constructing dialogs. I don't believe that Art suggested that ISV's should use the existing ServerPac jobs, just the structure that manages them. A subtle point I had in mind, but wasn't sure how to express it. I did not mean to suggest every vendor follow the exact same process, job for job. However, the architecture repository is there for product installs, PDO's, ServerPac, SystemPac, whatever. Of course, this requires IBM to open up the the interfaces enough for ISVs to exploit. As I said, some ISVs do a good job already, but it would be *nice* to have a common database template. Regards, Art Gutowski Ford Motor Company -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Shane wrote: Excellent !!! - did he say excellent ???. Perhaps one day I'll bump into Mr. Jaffe in a bar somewhere and coax out of him who this mystical (mythical ???) vendor might be ... ;-) In October 2000, a man I greatly admire and respect kindly wrote: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0010L=ibm-main-archivesP =R3449I=1. Of course, things have only gotten worse since then ... ;-) Sorry, you are not authorized to browse the archives of the IBM-MAIN-ARCHIVES list from the email address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) you entered in the login screen. WTF??? Worked fine yesterday... -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
Had a similar experience last week Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.crawfordandcompany.com IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 04/11/2008 08:05:09 AM: -- Information from the mail header --- Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Poster: Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements) --- -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Shane wrote: Excellent !!! - did he say excellent ???. Perhaps one day I'll bump into Mr. Jaffe in a bar somewhere and coax out of him who this mystical (mythical ???) vendor might be ... ;-) In October 2000, a man I greatly admire and respect kindly wrote: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0010L=ibm-main-archivesP =R3449I=1. Of course, things have only gotten worse since then ... ;-) Sorry, you are not authorized to browse the archives of the IBM-MAIN-ARCHIVES list from the email address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) you entered in the login screen. WTF??? Worked fine yesterday... -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Best Overall Third-Party Claims Administrator - 2007 Business Insurance Readers Choice Awards Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:28:12 -0300, Clark Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10 Apr 2008 16:26:17 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: In October 2000, a man I greatly admire and respect kindly wrote: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0010L=ibm-main-archivesamp;P=R3449I=1. Of course, things have only gotten worse since then ... ;-) Since I can't get to the article via the URL since it won't let me log in, could you give us a title or specific date? I can log in and get to ibm-main but not with that URL. It's in IBM-MAIN-ARCHIVES. If you couldn't sign-in via that URL, you won't be able to directly, either. It's a separate list archive, for 2004 data and earlier if I remember correctly. You can subscribe to it, and then setup web access just as you would for IBM-MAIN. Your normal IBM-MAIN subscription and web signup don't carry over to it automatically. -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:08:34 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: Yous [sic] premise that ServerPac is somehow exemplary might be your opinion [..] Thus the rant and /rant. I have not yet had the priviledge of installing the aforementioned product, but I hear from my teammates it's not too shabby, though some recent maintenance packaging was openly questioned (addressed promptly and thoroughly :) ... There are other good product installers out there, IMHO. BTW, when did you move to NY? Keep in mind that ServerPac is an SMP/E bypass. It _restores_ SMP/E zones rather than installing into them. This might be OK for a complete reinstall of z/OS. But, I submit that this is *not* the preferred, optimal -- or even necessarily the correct -- way to add a product to an existing pre-configured system! Interesting choice of words. I used to look at it as an add-on, but bypass has merit. Certainly for individual products, simple SMP/E packaging or PDO works. Even z/OS upgrades might do better with PDO or ServerPac lite (system refresh). For those of us that don't do a great job of tidying up, periodic system replace can be a good thing. While I'm not sold on the CSI/Zone restore/replace either, I do consider *most* of the rest of ServerPac exemplary, yes. [..]How great would it be if you could install software on z/OS with the same ease as on other platforms? Nerdvana. On the flip side, there is job security to consider... http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/autonomic/library/ac-sivalue/ Interesting reading, thanks for sharing. A shame IBM is dragging it's feet - I'm sure there are reasons, the likes of which *customers* may never understand. Regards, Art Gutowski Ford Motor Company IT Infrastructure zSeries Platform Planning, Build Operations [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:08:34 -0700, Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Keep in mind that ServerPac is an SMP/E bypass. It _restores_ SMP/E zones rather than installing into them. This might be OK for a complete reinstall of z/OS. But, I submit that this is *not* the preferred, optimal -- or even necessarily the correct -- way to add a product to an existing pre-configured system! ... I think Ed is being a bit too restrained in his critique. I might have slipped in a ... totally unacceptable ... somewhere. I might relent a bit if the vendor has a very good track record, provides very good Program Directory-like documentation, and under no circumstances would ever have its product installed in with other products in the same CSI. That last requirement is probably statisfied by any product that doesn't meet the other 2, but I can't think of many products that satisfy all 3. And I strongly expect my list of caveats would grow if I spent a bit more time thinking about it. Being a basically paranoid type, I would want to look very closely at any product using a ServerPac model for installation and try verify everything done by SMP in a more standard Rec/App/Acc type of installation. I see this kind of installations as a burden rather than a time-saver - more things to be checked manually. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:39:31 -0500, Patrick O'Keefe wrote: ... under no circumstances would ever have its product installed in with other products in the same CSI. Could you be a little more specific about what you mean by this? Are you referring to the target/DLIB zones or the global? What about multiple related products from the same vendor? I'm working in software development now, but when I was a sys prog, I always found it annoying when a vendor insisted that every product had to go in its own zone. -- Tom Marchant Compuware -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
Tom Marchant wrote: On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:39:31 -0500, Patrick O'Keefe wrote: ... under no circumstances would ever have its product installed in with other products in the same CSI. Could you be a little more specific about what you mean by this? Are you referring to the target/DLIB zones or the global? What about multiple related products from the same vendor? I'm working in software development now, but when I was a sys prog, I always found it annoying when a vendor insisted that every product had to go in its own zone. IIUC, his statement applies iff some ISV was foolish enough to follow the ServerPac model and do a full restore of pre-populated SMP/E zones. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:57:17 -0500, Tom Marchant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:39:31 -0500, Patrick O'Keefe wrote: ... under no circumstances would ever have its product installed in with other products in the same CSI. Could you be a little more specific about what you mean by this? Are you referring to the target/DLIB zones or the global? What about multiple related products from the same vendor? I'm working in software development now, but when I was a sys prog, I always found it annoying when a vendor insisted that every product had to go in its own zone. ... Ed interpreted my statement correctly, but I thought I'd respond directly to your statement. To my ...under no circumstances ... same CSI. I should have added and I'd seriously recommend we never look at this vendor again! The product should be isolated in its own Global/target/DLIB zones ... and dumped in the trash. (Ok. There are maybe some exceptions, but don't tell the vendors.) I absolutely agree with your last statement. Certainly a shared GLOBAL zone. And I get irritated if I need more than one target and DLIB per vendor.I know, I know. Acquired products may have colliding DD statements (and I hate needing DD statements overriding DDDEFs almost as much as I hate multiple zones). It's because I agree with you last statement that I dislike and distrust an installation by restore. I hate the assumption that nothing belongs in the zone but the one pristine product. Target/DLIB - A restore of the zones makes me seriously grumpy. The GLOBAL zone? I'd go ballistic. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 08:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: But, I know of at least *one* ISV whose flagship product's install procedures are continually rated excellent by its customer base! Excellent !!! - did he say excellent ???. Perhaps one day I'll bump into Mr. Jaffe in a bar somewhere and coax out of him who this mystical (mythical ???) vendor might be ... ;-) Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:20:14 +1000, Shane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 08:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: But, I know of at least *one* ISV whose flagship product's install procedures are continually rated excellent by its customer base! Excellent !!! - did he say excellent ???. Perhaps one day I'll bump into Mr. Jaffe in a bar somewhere and coax out of him who this mystical (mythical ???) vendor might be ... ;-) Shane ... Doesn't just make you want to order a trial copy just to see? :-) Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
Shane wrote: Excellent !!! - did he say excellent ???. Perhaps one day I'll bump into Mr. Jaffe in a bar somewhere and coax out of him who this mystical (mythical ???) vendor might be ... ;-) In October 2000, a man I greatly admire and respect kindly wrote: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0010L=ibm-main-archivesP=R3449I=1. Of course, things have only gotten worse since then ... ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
On 10 Apr 2008 16:26:17 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Shane wrote: Excellent !!! - did he say excellent ???. Perhaps one day I'll bump into Mr. Jaffe in a bar somewhere and coax out of him who this mystical (mythical ???) vendor might be ... ;-) In October 2000, a man I greatly admire and respect kindly wrote: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0010L=ibm-main-archivesP=R3449I=1. Of course, things have only gotten worse since then ... ;-) Since I can't get to the article via the URL since it won't let me log in, could you give us a title or specific date? I can log in and get to ibm-main but not with that URL. Thanks, Clark Morris -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements)
I had the same problem until I realized that it was IBM-MAIN-ARCHIVES, not IBM-MAIN. Btw, we use the product mentioned. The install was easy and the support is great. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clark Morris Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Installers (Was: IBM announcements) On 10 Apr 2008 16:26:17 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Shane wrote: Excellent !!! - did he say excellent ???. Perhaps one day I'll bump into Mr. Jaffe in a bar somewhere and coax out of him who this mystical (mythical ???) vendor might be ... ;-) In October 2000, a man I greatly admire and respect kindly wrote: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0010L=ibm-main-archivesP=R3449I= 1. Of course, things have only gotten worse since then ... ;-) Since I can't get to the article via the URL since it won't let me log in, could you give us a title or specific date? I can log in and get to ibm-main but not with that URL. Thanks, Clark Morris -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
