Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-19 Thread Tony Harminc 
On 18 November 2011 11:01, John Gilmore  wrote:
> This 'Shebang'---There is of course another one--- is not just a
> verbal slurring of 'Hash Bang'.  It has a much more elegant name.  It
> is a conflation.
>
> Consider, just in English, to which they are not confined,
>
> o       Edmund Spenser: wrizzled (wrinkled + frizzled)
>
> o       Shakespeare: glaze (glare + gaze)
>
> o·      Lewis Carroll: slithy (slimy, lithe), chortle (chuckle, snort),
> snark (snake, shark), galumph (gallop, triumph)
>
> They have a long, much (even too much) discussed literary history
> under this rubric, and Carroll talks about them repeatedly in his
> letters to Ellen Terry.

I am surprised at conflation being used this way. I understand
conflation to carry implication of at least some degree of error or
confusion, intentional or otherwise. This etymology of "Shebang" may
well involve conflation, but the word itself is surely better called
by Carroll's now quite standard term portmanteau.

Tony H.

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-19 Thread Mike Liberatore 
Out
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Subject: Re: Terminology RE: USS
Sent: Nov 19, 2011 9:23 PM

In
,
on 11/18/2011
   at 09:14 AM, John Gilmore  said:

>'<' and '>' are often called broken brackets.  The ALGOL definition
>document, for example, uses this term, as do many descriptions of
>BNF.

Neither "REPORT ON THE ALGORITHMIC LANGUAGE ALGOL 60" nor "Revised
Report on ALGOL 60" use the term "broken bracket". Perhaps you are
confusing "broken bracket" with "bracket".

There is a term brocket in the Hacker's Dictionary that appears in a
lot of other jargon files, but I found no sign of anybody actually
using the term when defining a new language.
 
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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In
,
on 11/18/2011
   at 09:14 AM, John Gilmore  said:

>'<' and '>' are often called broken brackets.  The ALGOL definition
>document, for example, uses this term, as do many descriptions of
>BNF.

Neither "REPORT ON THE ALGORITHMIC LANGUAGE ALGOL 60" nor "Revised
Report on ALGOL 60" use the term "broken bracket". Perhaps you are
confusing "broken bracket" with "bracket".

There is a term brocket in the Hacker's Dictionary that appears in a
lot of other jargon files, but I found no sign of anybody actually
using the term when defining a new language.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-19 Thread Mike Liberatore 
Out
--Original Message--
From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
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To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: Terminology RE: USS
Sent: Nov 19, 2011 7:17 PM

In , on 11/18/2011
   at 07:57 AM, Ken Hume IBM  said:

>We always called the * a "splat".

I believe that is the norm in EUnix circles. Likewise bang for "!" and
shebang for "#!".
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html> 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In , on 11/18/2011
   at 07:57 AM, Ken Hume IBM  said:

>We always called the * a "splat".

I believe that is the norm in EUnix circles. Likewise bang for "!" and
shebang for "#!".
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-19 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In ,
on 11/18/2011
   at 08:02 AM, "McKown, John"  said:

>#! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal
>slurring of "hash bang" together.

I doubt it; my guiess is that the term is short for "shell bang"; it's
used with the file of a shell or language processor, e.g., bash, Perl.

#!/usr/bin/perl -W
 
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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread McKown, John 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ian
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:51 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Terminology RE: USS
> 
> >John McKown writes:
> >
> >I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less 
> than" and "greater than".
> 
> 
> You probably never heard of  "Left Banana" , "Right Banana" 
> for "(" and ")"  then?  :-)
> 
> Mike X, a  great dba and all around great guy I worked with 
> many years ago used to use those terms for ().
> 
> "scootchie left" and "scootchie right" was his chosen terms 
> for getting you to move the cursor.
> 
> 
> Ian.
> http://www.cicsworld.com

No, I hadn't. But I __like__ it. Formal adoption in progress!

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
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MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread Ian 
>John McKown writes:
>
>I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less than" and "greater 
>than".


You probably never heard of  "Left Banana" , "Right Banana" for "(" and ")"  
then?  :-)

Mike X, a  great dba and all around great guy I worked with many years ago used 
to use those terms for ().

"scootchie left" and "scootchie right" was his chosen terms for getting you to 
move the cursor.


Ian.
http://www.cicsworld.com

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread John Gilmore 
This 'Shebang'---There is of course another one--- is not just a
verbal slurring of 'Hash Bang'.  It has a much more elegant name.  It
is a conflation.

Consider, just in English, to which they are not confined,

o   Edmund Spenser: wrizzled (wrinkled + frizzled)

o   Shakespeare: glaze (glare + gaze)

o·  Lewis Carroll: slithy (slimy, lithe), chortle (chuckle, snort),
snark (snake, shark), galumph (gallop, triumph)

They have a long, much (even too much) discussed literary history
under this rubric, and Carroll talks about them repeatedly in his
letters to Ellen Terry.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread Chase, John 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bernd Oppolzer
> 
> I never knew how to call this sign correctly: &
> 
> in Germany, it's simply called: "und" (that's: and) or "Kaufmanns
und", that is, merchant's and.
> 
> Almost nobody here knows what an ampersand is.
> 
> But some day one of my co-workers called it "Brezel" - you know, what
a brezel is? Look here:
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brezel

In English we spell it "pretzel".  Frequently served with beer (bier?).

The ampersand rather closely resembles a pretzel (brezel).  :-)

-jc-

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread zMan 
Since the point of this thread is pedantry, that's "octothorpe", and "PL/I".

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:02 AM, McKown, John
 wrote:
> Since it is now Friday, how about
>
> / is a solidus, aka a slash
> \ is a reverse solidus, aka a backslash
> # is an octhothrope, aka a hash mark or pound sign. Not to be confused with 
> "pound sterling" sign.
> ! is a "bang" - I learned that long ago in college on a Xerox Sigma 7 system.
> #! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal slurring of 
> "hash bang" together.
-- 
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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread Ken Hume IBM 

We always called the * a "splat".

Ken Hume
IBM PD Tools Client Advocate
(720)396-7776
kph...@us.ibm.com


On 11/18/2011 7:02 AM, McKown, John wrote:

Since it is now Friday, how about

/ is a solidus, aka a slash
\ is a reverse solidus, aka a backslash
# is an octhothrope, aka a hash mark or pound sign. Not to be confused with "pound 
sterling" sign.
! is a "bang" - I learned that long ago in college on a Xerox Sigma 7 system.
#! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal slurring of "hash 
bang" together.

When speaking, I often say "square bracket" and "curly brace" (open or close) just 
because people often don't know a brace from a bracket from a parenthesis. And let's not even talk about 
carets ^. And what is the proper word for that PL/1 "not" sign ¬ ?

I never heard of "broken brackets" for<  and>. Just "less than" and "greater 
than".

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone .
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: USS


Brackets? Oh, you mean parentheses: ( )
Brackets are: [ ] (not "square brackets", just "brackets")
Braces are: { } (not "curly braces", just "braces")

Another common use for obscure terms.

When I was in high school English brackets was an acceptable term.
When I took FORTRAN brackets was an acceptable term.
When I took C square brackets and curly (brackets or braces)
were acceptable terms.
My profs used them.
Why, after almost 40 years, why do we have more retroactve
corrections?

Like that other TLA, that shall remain nameless, even though
it was used for almost 15 years before some self-appointed
pedants started taking upon themselves to preach.
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread Bernd Oppolzer 

I never knew how to call this sign correctly: &

in Germany, it's simply called: "und" (that's: and)
or "Kaufmanns und", that is, merchant's and.

Almost nobody here knows what an ampersand is.

But some day one of my co-workers called it "Brezel" -
you know, what a brezel is? Look here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brezel

This is very descriptive, IMO, so I now prefer to call it brezel,
which is kind of accepted in the community here :-)

Have a nice weekend,
regards

Bernd



Am 18.11.2011 15:02, schrieb McKown, John:

Since it is now Friday, how about

/ is a solidus, aka a slash
\ is a reverse solidus, aka a backslash
# is an octhothrope, aka a hash mark or pound sign. Not to be confused with "pound 
sterling" sign.
! is a "bang" - I learned that long ago in college on a Xerox Sigma 7 system.
#! is normally pronounced "shebang" in UNIX. I guess a verbal slurring of "hash 
bang" together.

When speaking, I often say "square bracket" and "curly brace" (open or close) just 
because people often don't know a brace from a bracket from a parenthesis. And let's not even talk about 
carets ^. And what is the proper word for that PL/1 "not" sign ¬ ?

I never heard of "broken brackets" for<  and>. Just "less than" and "greater 
than".

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone .
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: USS


Brackets? Oh, you mean parentheses: ( )
Brackets are: [ ] (not "square brackets", just "brackets")
Braces are: { } (not "curly braces", just "braces")

Another common use for obscure terms.

When I was in high school English brackets was an acceptable term.
When I took FORTRAN brackets was an acceptable term.
When I took C square brackets and curly (brackets or braces)
were acceptable terms.
My profs used them.
Why, after almost 40 years, why do we have more retroactve
corrections?

Like that other TLA, that shall remain nameless, even though
it was used for almost 15 years before some self-appointed
pedants started taking upon themselves to preach.
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

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Re: Terminology RE: USS

2011-11-18 Thread John Gilmore 
John McKown writes:

| I never heard of "broken brackets" for < and >. Just "less than" and
"greater than".

Context is all!  In such notation as

 ::= 0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9

'<' and '>' are often called broken brackets.  The ALGOL definition
document, for example, uses this term, as do many descriptions of BNF.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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