Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-04 Thread Peter Relson
It's not the possible problem of the real storage occupancy (conceivably 
in the future driving paging or some other problem)  that should be the 
reason for investigation. Instead, it should be whether there is an 
application problem (such as a virtual storage leak). If you feel 
comfortable that the application is doing its job properly and happens to 
need additional storage each time period, then it is your decision whether 
or not you accept that need.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design

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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-03 Thread Wang Xiaobing
Ted,

I am worried about if the real storage used more and more it will cause paging 
issue..is it right ? thanks.

Wang Xiaobing.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:16:04 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca 
wrote:

I find the problem is only real storage is increasing, virtual storage looks
ok..can not understand why..

As I've tried to tell, this NOT a problem.
Virtual storage is stable.
There is no paging issue.
So, what's the problem?
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-03 Thread Ted MacNEIL
If? If? If?
Is it doing so?
From your posts: NO.

Monitor it if you really believe it is.

But, I'd spend my time (better, IMO) monitoring the whole system, rather than 
monitoring a (maybe) pseudo issue.

-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

-Original Message-
From: Wang Xiaobing wang...@bayss.com
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 20:14:35 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Real Storage Occupancy

Ted,

I am worried about if the real storage used more and more it will cause paging 
issue..is it right ? thanks.

Wang Xiaobing.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:16:04 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca 
wrote:

I find the problem is only real storage is increasing, virtual storage looks
ok..can not understand why..

As I've tried to tell, this NOT a problem.
Virtual storage is stable.
There is no paging issue.
So, what's the problem?
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-03 Thread Gerhard Adam
Let me ask an obvious question  has the monitoring program been checked
to ensure that it isn't collecting the data or storing it improperly
(thereby accumulating data)?

Many performance monitors will allow you to see the data that is contained
in the allocated storage, so if you are seeing an increased in allocated
frames, then you should be able to examine their contents to see if it is
new or replicated data, etc. ... 

Also, have you validated the reported data from the REXX program against
another monitor just to ensure no errors are being shown?

Adam

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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-01 Thread Wang Xiaobing
Thanks, TED and Kees..

The system is no paging..but I would like to know the reason.

The Virtual Storage usage of the task - JCSOL is no increasing during the 
days..

Do you think it is normal ?  thanks.

Wang Xiaobing

On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:59:45 +0200, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM 
kees.verno...@klm.com wrote:

Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote in message
news:1461128744-1309404933-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-
197
9920784-@b12.c1.bise6.blackberry...
 The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL
 STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.

 Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem?
TIA.

 Is it a problem?

 Are you paging?

 Occupancy varies depending on the workload mix.

 The SRM has a concept called lazy pages.
 In other words, if no other task needs the memory, the working set
won't be trimmed.

 This is especially the case, these days, with large stores  z/OS.
 -
 Ted MacNEIL

Agreed, CS usage does not say much in general.
However, in this case I assume that the task's virtual storage is also
increasing during the days and that could/should be a better trigger to
suspect problems in the task with its storage management.

So, forget CS, check the Virtual Storage usage of the task.

Kees.

For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: 
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Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 
33014286



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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-01 Thread Wang Xiaobing
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:54:44 -0500, Dale R. Smith dale-
sm...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:22:24 -0500, Wang Xiaobing
wang...@bayss.com wrote:

Hi,

We use a rexx program invoking ISFAFD to monitor the BATCH JOB, it
is a long
term running address space. The name is JCSOL, but we found the
REAL
STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per
day.

Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this
problem? TIA.


Are you using stems in this long running REXX program?  If you are and
they are not explicitly being dropped, then that could account for
some/all of the increase in storage use.  REXX does not free storage
used for stem elements even if you reuse the same stem name, so you
need to drop the stem explicity to have REXX free the storage used.
This normally isn't a problem as most REXX programs only run for a
short time and storage is freed when the program ends.  In your case,
the program doesn't end, so no storage is freed.

For example:

Do Forever
  ...some process creates REXX stem  (say line.)
  ...process elements in stem  (line.)
  Drop line.  /* Free Storage for Stem line. */
End /* Do Forever */

--
Dale R. Smith

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Dale,

Thanks for you reply.

I checked the program, looks like almost all stems have been explicitly 
DROPed...Anyway I will review the program again to see there is no missing.

I find the problem is only real storage is increasing, virtual storage looks 
ok..can not understand why..

Wang Xiaobing.

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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-01 Thread Johnny Luo
Virtual storage used by the task won't increase unless new GETMAIN is issued.

After initial GETMAIN the working set will increase as the task begins
to access more pages without FREEMAIN.

These days, as real storage is usually not a problem, it's possible
that those pages will reside in central storage for a long time. I
guess that's what you saw.

So in my opinition, you should check the program logic to find the
possible cause: do you declare more variables as time goes by and
never FREEMAIN the no-longer-used ones?

My two cents.


Best Regards,
Johnny Luo



On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Wang Xiaobing wang...@bayss.com wrote:
 Thanks, TED and Kees..

 The system is no paging..but I would like to know the reason.

 The Virtual Storage usage of the task - JCSOL is no increasing during the
 days..

 Do you think it is normal ?  thanks.

 Wang Xiaobing

 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:59:45 +0200, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM
 kees.verno...@klm.com wrote:

Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote in message
news:1461128744-1309404933-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-
 197
9920784-@b12.c1.bise6.blackberry...
 The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL
 STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.

 Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem?
TIA.

 Is it a problem?

 Are you paging?

 Occupancy varies depending on the workload mix.

 The SRM has a concept called lazy pages.
 In other words, if no other task needs the memory, the working set
won't be trimmed.

 This is especially the case, these days, with large stores  z/OS.
 -
 Ted MacNEIL

Agreed, CS usage does not say much in general.
However, in this case I assume that the task's virtual storage is also
increasing during the days and that could/should be a better trigger to
suspect problems in the task with its storage management.

So, forget CS, check the Virtual Storage usage of the task.

Kees.

For information, services and offers, please visit our web site:
 http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain
 confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you 
 are
 not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any
 attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action
 related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be
 unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender
 immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message.

Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its
 employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of
 this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt.
Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch
 Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number
 33014286



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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-01 Thread Wang Xiaobing
It's difficult to find the reason from the program logic...:-(

Wang Xiaobing

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 23:15:04 +0800, Johnny Luo 
johnny.xingkui@gmail.com wrote:

Virtual storage used by the task won't increase unless new GETMAIN is 
issued.

After initial GETMAIN the working set will increase as the task begins
to access more pages without FREEMAIN.

These days, as real storage is usually not a problem, it's possible
that those pages will reside in central storage for a long time. I
guess that's what you saw.

So in my opinition, you should check the program logic to find the
possible cause: do you declare more variables as time goes by and
never FREEMAIN the no-longer-used ones?

My two cents.


Best Regards,
Johnny Luo



On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Wang Xiaobing wang...@bayss.com 
wrote:
 Thanks, TED and Kees..

 The system is no paging..but I would like to know the reason.

 The Virtual Storage usage of the task - JCSOL is no increasing during the
 days..

 Do you think it is normal ?  thanks.

 Wang Xiaobing

 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:59:45 +0200, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM
 kees.verno...@klm.com wrote:

Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote in message
news:1461128744-1309404933-
cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-
 197
9920784-@b12.c1.bise6.blackberry...
 The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL
 STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.

 Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem?
TIA.

 Is it a problem?

 Are you paging?

 Occupancy varies depending on the workload mix.

 The SRM has a concept called lazy pages.
 In other words, if no other task needs the memory, the working set
won't be trimmed.

 This is especially the case, these days, with large stores  z/OS.
 -
 Ted MacNEIL

Agreed, CS usage does not say much in general.
However, in this case I assume that the task's virtual storage is also
increasing during the days and that could/should be a better trigger to
suspect problems in the task with its storage management.

So, forget CS, check the Virtual Storage usage of the task.

Kees.
***
*
For information, services and offers, please visit our web site:
 http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain
 confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you 
are
 not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any
 attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other 
action
 related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be
 unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender
 immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message.

Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its
 employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of
 this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt.
Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch
 Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered 
number
 33014286
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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-01 Thread Ted MacNEIL
It's not abnormal.
Storage occupancy is next to meaningless if there's no paging.
That's why IBM's recommendation is to set the SDC to ZERO.

Your task is referencing pages and no other task needs more, so the RSM has no 
need to take them away.

-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

-Original Message-
From: Wang Xiaobing wang...@bayss.com
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 09:59:45 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Real Storage Occupancy

Thanks, TED and Kees..

The system is no paging..but I would like to know the reason.

The Virtual Storage usage of the task - JCSOL is no increasing during the 
days..

Do you think it is normal ?  thanks.

Wang Xiaobing

On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:59:45 +0200, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM 
kees.verno...@klm.com wrote:

Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote in message
news:1461128744-1309404933-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-
197
9920784-@b12.c1.bise6.blackberry...
 The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL
 STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.

 Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem?
TIA.

 Is it a problem?

 Are you paging?

 Occupancy varies depending on the workload mix.

 The SRM has a concept called lazy pages.
 In other words, if no other task needs the memory, the working set
won't be trimmed.

 This is especially the case, these days, with large stores  z/OS.
 -
 Ted MacNEIL

Agreed, CS usage does not say much in general.
However, in this case I assume that the task's virtual storage is also
increasing during the days and that could/should be a better trigger to
suspect problems in the task with its storage management.

So, forget CS, check the Virtual Storage usage of the task.

Kees.

For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: 
http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain 
confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you 
are 
not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any 
attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action 
related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be 
unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender 
immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message.

Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its 
employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of 
this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt.
Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch 
Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 
33014286



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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-07-01 Thread Ted MacNEIL
I find the problem is only real storage is increasing, virtual storage looks 
ok..can not understand why..

As I've tried to tell, this NOT a problem.
Virtual storage is stable.
There is no paging issue.
So, what's the problem?
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-06-30 Thread Vernooij, CP - SPLXM
Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote in message
news:1461128744-1309404933-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-197
9920784-@b12.c1.bise6.blackberry...
 The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL 
 STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.
 
 Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem?
TIA.
 
 Is it a problem?
 
 Are you paging?
 
 Occupancy varies depending on the workload mix.
 
 The SRM has a concept called lazy pages.
 In other words, if no other task needs the memory, the working set
won't be trimmed.
 
 This is especially the case, these days, with large stores  z/OS.
 -
 Ted MacNEIL

Agreed, CS usage does not say much in general.
However, in this case I assume that the task's virtual storage is also
increasing during the days and that could/should be a better trigger to
suspect problems in the task with its storage management.

So, forget CS, check the Virtual Storage usage of the task.

Kees.

For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: 
http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and 
privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the 
addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be 
disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this 
e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have 
received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return 
e-mail, and delete this message. 

Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its 
employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of 
this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. 
Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch 
Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 
33014286



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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-06-30 Thread Dale R. Smith
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:22:24 -0500, Wang Xiaobing 
wang...@bayss.com wrote:

Hi,

We use a rexx program invoking ISFAFD to monitor the BATCH JOB, it 
is a long
term running address space. The name is JCSOL, but we found the 
REAL
STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per 
day.

Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this 
problem? TIA.


Are you using stems in this long running REXX program?  If you are and 
they are not explicitly being dropped, then that could account for 
some/all of the increase in storage use.  REXX does not free storage 
used for stem elements even if you reuse the same stem name, so you 
need to drop the stem explicity to have REXX free the storage used.  
This normally isn't a problem as most REXX programs only run for a 
short time and storage is freed when the program ends.  In your case, 
the program doesn't end, so no storage is freed.

For example:

Do Forever 
  ...some process creates REXX stem  (say line.)
  ...process elements in stem  (line.)
  Drop line.  /* Free Storage for Stem line. */
End /* Do Forever */

-- 
Dale R. Smith

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Real Storage Occupancy

2011-06-29 Thread Wang Xiaobing
Hi,

We use a rexx program invoking ISFAFD to monitor the BATCH JOB, it is a long 
term running address space. The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL 
STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.

Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem? TIA.

   Service   - Frame Occupancy -  -- Active Frames --   AUX   PGIN ES  
Jobname  C Class TOTAL   ACTV   IDLE  WSET   FIXEDDIV   SLOTS RATE 
RATE
JSCOLS STCLO 18681  0  18681 0 332  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 19631  0  19631 0 336  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 26165  0  26165 0 499  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 26861  0  26861 0 505  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 30867   4652  26214 31016 562  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 31886  0  31886 0 567  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 36857   8132  28725 36965 590  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 38122  0  38122 0 591  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 38890   5834  33056 38896 591  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 42842  0  42842 0 630  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 44092   7957  36136 44204 634  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 45171   6817  38355 45445 638  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 60919  0  60919 0 694  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 62220  0  62220 0 699  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 62976  0  62976 0 713  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 67255   5388  61867 67346 808  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 68429  12345  56085 68581 806  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 68963  0  68963 0 809  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 72832  19684  53149 72902 887  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 74052  13361  60691 74228 891  0   000

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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-06-29 Thread Ted MacNEIL
The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL 
STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.

Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem? TIA.

Is it a problem?

Are you paging?

Occupancy varies depending on the workload mix.

The SRM has a concept called lazy pages.
In other words, if no other task needs the memory, the working set won't be 
trimmed.

This is especially the case, these days, with large stores  z/OS.
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
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Re: Real Storage Occupancy

2011-06-29 Thread Ed Gould
Not a clue I have no idea what JSCOL is or what it does.  Get you JCSOL systems 
guy involved as he needs to explain this issue (if it is an issue).

Ed





From: Wang Xiaobing wang...@bayss.com
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 10:22:24 PM
Subject: Real Storage Occupancy

Hi,

We use a rexx program invoking ISFAFD to monitor the BATCH JOB, it is a long 
term running address space. The name is JCSOL, but we found the REAL 
STORAGE occupied by JCSOL is increased, almost 6000 frames per day.

Can someone provide any train of thought to investigate this problem? TIA.

   Service   - Frame Occupancy -  -- Active Frames --   AUX   PGIN ES  
Jobname  C Class TOTAL   ACTV   IDLE  WSET   FIXEDDIV   SLOTS RATE 
RATE
JSCOLS STCLO 18681  0  18681 0 332  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 19631  0  19631 0 336  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 26165  0  26165 0 499  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 26861  0  26861 0 505  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 30867   4652  26214 31016 562  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 31886  0  31886 0 567  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 36857   8132  28725 36965 590  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 38122  0  38122 0 591  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 38890   5834  33056 38896 591  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 42842  0  42842 0 630  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 44092   7957  36136 44204 634  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 45171   6817  38355 45445 638  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 60919  0  60919 0 694  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 62220  0  62220 0 699  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 62976  0  62976 0 713  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 67255   5388  61867 67346 808  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 68429  12345  56085 68581 806  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 68963  0  68963 0 809  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 72832  19684  53149 72902 887  0   000
JSCOLS STCLO 74052  13361  60691 74228 891  0   000

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