STROBE Layoffs
Compuware is closing the Strobe development office in Cambridge, MA, effective October 30. All but four developers will be terminated. The surviving four will work from home and development will move to Detroit (where there is no one who knows the product). Testing, QA, etc. will also be terminated. There will be no severance package. Carl (not good news) Youngren -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Strobe Layoffs
On 9/5/07 12:00 AM, "IBM-MAIN automatic digest system" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date:Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:59:25 -0500 From:Dave Kopischke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: STROBE Layoffs On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 06:22:43 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. > We care. Just trying to confirm the situation. Haven't heard from our rep yet. What's that cliche' ??? The silence is deafening The press release, dated 29 August 2007, can be found on the Compuware site: http://www.compuware.com/pressroom/news/2007/6781_ENG_HTML.htm Stu Fried -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. Bob -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Youngren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: STROBE Layoffs Compuware is closing the Strobe development office in Cambridge, MA, effective October 30. All but four developers will be terminated. The surviving four will work from home and development will move to Detroit (where there is no one who knows the product). Testing, QA, etc. will also be terminated. There will be no severance package. Carl (not good news) Youngren -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
It is unfortunate. We are a Strobe customer. We will be watching to see what happens to this product. Not much we can do otherwise. Dave Jousma Mainframe Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] 616.653.8429 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: STROBE Layoffs No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. Bob -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Youngren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: STROBE Layoffs Compuware is closing the Strobe development office in Cambridge, MA, effective October 30. All but four developers will be terminated. The surviving four will work from home and development will move to Detroit (where there is no one who knows the product). Testing, QA, etc. will also be terminated. There will be no severance package. Carl (not good news) Youngren This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
Maybe, a couple of years ago we changed from Strobe to Intune for financial reasons. Now we even terminated that, partly for financial reasons too. Also here, hardware might be cheaper than manpower plus tools. Kees. "Bob Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED] om>... > No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. > > Bob > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:13 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: STROBE Layoffs > > Compuware is closing the Strobe development office in Cambridge, MA, > effective October 30. All but four developers will be terminated. The > surviving four will work from home and development will move to Detroit > (where there is no one who knows the product). Testing, QA, etc. will > also be terminated. There will be no severance package. > > Carl (not good news) Youngren > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 06:22:43 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. > We care. Just trying to confirm the situation. Haven't heard from our rep yet. What's that cliche' ??? The silence is deafening -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
We just replaced STROBE with Application Performance Analyzer and the users seem to like APA well enough. Bob Richards -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Kopischke Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: STROBE Layoffs On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 06:22:43 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. > We care. Just trying to confirm the situation. Haven't heard from our rep yet. What's that cliche' ??? The silence is deafening LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. SunTrust and Seeing beyond money are federally registered service marks of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
Dave Kopischke writes: >We care. Just trying to confirm the situation. Haven't heard >from our rep yet. What's that cliche' ??? The silence is >deafening Actually, Compuware issued a press release. Among other places it's linked from compuware.com at this instant: http://www.compuware.com/pressroom/news/2006/6781_ENG_HTML.htm The Associated Press has a couple wire stories on the same subject. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
Actually, Compuware issued a press release. Among other places it's linked from compuware.com at this instant: http://www.compuware.com/pressroom/news/2006/6781_ENG_HTML.htm hmmm, great compuware press release, let me summarize:: Compuware is getting it's rear end kicked because of it's absurd pricing policies, and IBM is taking over their market with APA (in this particular case). We just replaced the compuware products with the IBM equivalents and expect to do as compuware indicates they will do in their press release (save millions that is). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
>Compuware is closing the Strobe development office in Cambridge, MA, >effective October 30. All but four developers will be terminated. The >surviving four will work from home and development will move to Detroit >(where there is no one who knows the product). Testing, QA, etc. will >also be terminated. There will be no severance package. > Some have never been able to afford the product and therefore can not say this is such a bad thing. I have tried to get the price lowered three times to something reasonable. The first case it would be $435K for on an IBM 9672 which only cost me $800K. The cheaper alternative was to upgrade the machine to a z900-101 which also cost me a bit less than $800K. The second time the price had not changed, and recently for it was still well over $350K for just a z900-101. I kept pointing out that if I would have become a customer back in 2001, they would have been getting recurring revenue. Their strategy is to get the most money up front and go lean in the out years. My SYSPROG shop has 15 Compuware contractors (great folks) and it did not give me any kind of discount or some incentive to cut me some kind of reasonable deal. So maybe this is for the best in long haul for the industry. I doubt if this will change any pricing policy until the company is bought out or goes down in flames. Jim -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
It is funny that they should close it down... Why don't they sell it to A.S.G. They seem to be building a business on all the software that no-one else wants (to support... that is) Regards Herbie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Marshall Sent: 05 September 2007 12:29 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: STROBE Layoffs >Compuware is closing the Strobe development office in Cambridge, MA, >effective October 30. All but four developers will be terminated. The >surviving four will work from home and development will move to Detroit >(where there is no one who knows the product). Testing, QA, etc. will >also be terminated. There will be no severance package. > Some have never been able to afford the product and therefore can not say this is such a bad thing. I have tried to get the price lowered three times to something reasonable. The first case it would be $435K for on an IBM 9672 which only cost me $800K. The cheaper alternative was to upgrade the machine to a z900-101 which also cost me a bit less than $800K. The second time the price had not changed, and recently for it was still well over $350K for just a z900-101. I kept pointing out that if I would have become a customer back in 2001, they would have been getting recurring revenue. Their strategy is to get the most money up front and go lean in the out years. My SYSPROG shop has 15 Compuware contractors (great folks) and it did not give me any kind of discount or some incentive to cut me some kind of reasonable deal. So maybe this is for the best in long haul for the industry. I doubt if this will change any pricing policy until the company is bought out or goes down in flames. Jim -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Elavon Financial Services Limited Registered in Ireland: Number 418442 Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
> >Some have never been able to afford the product and therefore can not say >this is such a bad thing. I have tried to get the price lowered three times to >something reasonable. The first case it would be $435K for on an IBM 9672 >which only cost me $800K. The cheaper alternative was to upgrade the >machine to a z900-101 which also cost me a bit less than $800K. The second >time the price had not changed, and recently for it was still well over $350K >for just a z900-101. I kept pointing out that if I would have become a >customer back in 2001, they would have been getting recurring revenue. Their >strategy is to get the most money up front and go lean in the out years. > >My SYSPROG shop has 15 Compuware contractors (great folks) and it did not >give me any kind of discount or some incentive to cut me some kind of >reasonable deal. So maybe this is for the best in long haul for the industry. I >doubt if this will change any pricing policy until the company is bought out or >goes down in flames. > I must correct something said above for I was reminded that indeed there was an offer of $125K made to entice us to buy Strobe. The maintenance and upgrade charges would be based on the higher numbers though. It was rejected by management and it begs a broader question to be asked. Does one buy performance software or throw the money at hardware. In this case the money was applied to two new z9BCs because of the need to buy them anyway. The cost of hardware is way down now that zAAPs & zIIPs are priced in the $40K-50K range. Upgrading from 688 MIPS to 945 MIPS would then have brought on upgrade charges which for the other products we run was significant. Memory is $3-4K/GB and maybe less now. One can covers a bunch of programming sins with a little bit of inexpensive hardware compared with software. I am hoping Compuware comes out with more of an explanation of the Strobe support for the future; no other product does ADABAS. But then if one can dump ADABAS in the future, then other cheaper products become available for consideration. What I am hoping for in the future is the Bill Gates strategy (sell an entire operating for $79) and make billions. What if Strobe was so reasonable, that every z/OS shop in the world could afford to use it and would not live without it. The volume would make up for the change in price. MXG has proven this is a great strategy to use. Jim -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
That's only a viable strategy if your cost of sales is quite low. If your business model and sales culture is built on the "big sale", it's probably very difficult to change to such a radically different stategy. -Mark (speaking for myself only) > > What I am hoping for in the future is the Bill Gates strategy > (sell an entire operating for $79) and make billions. What if > Strobe was so reasonable, that every z/OS shop in the world > could afford to use it and would not live without it. The > volume would make up for the change in price. MXG has proven > this is a great strategy to use. > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
"Jim Marshall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > What I am hoping for in the future is the Bill Gates strategy (sell an entire > operating for $79) and make billions. What if Strobe was so reasonable, that > every z/OS shop in the world could afford to use it and would not live without > it. The volume would make up for the change in price. MXG has proven this is > a great strategy to use. That would have to start with IBM, because unless z/OS is in every home the economies of scale just don't permit that kind of pricing for mainframes. Consider the recent article (don't have the link handy) where IBM had indicated there were approx 10K installed mainframes worldwide.How much revenue would that generate at $79 per license? Not much.Consider also that a PC operating system does not support thousands of users concurrently. So the cost has to reflect the benefit. The 'per seat' licensing makes more sense, but still doesn't reflect the value received. For example, could one really claim that the value of a Windows OS is the same per user as a mainframe OS to a large corporation? I doubt it. Pricing is, and probably always will be, simply based upon what the market will bear. Those who are good at pricing will stay in business, while those who aren't (setting them either too high or too low) will not. Of course, the question of z/OS in every home comes back to that tired old discussion about making it affordable to those who want it (re: Hercules, emulation, PSI, et. al.). Regards, Dean -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
In a message dated 9/6/2007 7:51:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >What I am hoping for in the future is the Bill Gates strategy (sell an entire operating for $79) and make billions. That's great strategy for Bill, but not for me. In this case, I believe you get what you pay for. And for $79 I have a %*&!?$ ziplock bag filled with raw sewage disguised as software. Bill Fairchild Plainfield, IL ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
"That's great strategy for Bill, but not for me. In this case, I believe you get what you pay for. And for $79 I have a %*&!?$ ziplock bag filled with raw sewage disguised as software". okay, don't hold back any longer, tell us how you really feel about Microsoft . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Justice > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:21 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: STROBE Layoffs > > > "That's great strategy for Bill, but not for me. In this > case, I believe you > get what you pay for. And for $79 I have a %*&!?$ ziplock > bag filled with > raw sewage disguised as software". > > > okay, don't hold back any longer, tell us how you really feel > about Microsoft Paraphrased from a book that I read once: "You know that stuff on the bottom of a chamber pot after it hasn't been emptied for a few days? That's what I think of Windows." -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
It's been several years now since we had to toss Strobe for cheaper alternatives. Compuware was way too slow to recognize their pricing structures were totally out of line with the falling $/MSU prices in mainframe hardware and with competition with other platforms and priced themselves out of our market. An ISV that provides useful but non-essential software can't consistently price their products as the most expensive ISV products in the shop and not expect to draw the attention of cost-conscious upper management whose first question will always be "Do we really need this?". Bob Shannon wrote: No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. Bob -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: STROBE Layoffs Compuware is closing the Strobe development office in Cambridge, MA, effective October 30. All but four developers will be terminated. The surviving four will work from home and development will move to Detroit (where there is no one who knows the product). Testing, QA, etc. will also be terminated. There will be no severance package. Carl (not good news) Youngren ... -- Joel C. Ewing, Fort Smith, AR[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
--- It's been several years now since we had to toss Strobe for cheaper alternatives. Compuware was way too slow to recognize their pricing structures were totally out of line with the falling $/MSU prices in mainframe hardware and with competition with other platforms and priced themselves out of our market. An ISV that provides useful but non-essential software can't consistently price their products as the most expensive ISV products in the shop and not expect to draw the attention of cost-conscious upper management whose first question will always be "Do we really need this?". In my shop, I always refered to CA, BMC and COMPUWARE as the "Tyrannical Triad", because I felt that their pricing policies were, to say the least, "out of line" with the mainstrame of software pricing. (Too high and unrealistic. A CA person told me once that the price was high because "You can use our software so much more with improved CPU capabilities. When I explained that we didn't invoke the software any more frequently, his response was "That might be, but you might". More gonads than a brass monkey) As far as I'm concerned, that sort of marketing isn't even deserving of my contempt! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
- Original Message - From: "Joel C. Ewing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Re: STROBE Layoffs It's been several years now since we had to toss Strobe for cheaper alternatives. Compuware was way too slow to recognize their pricing structures were totally out of line with the falling $/MSU prices in mainframe hardware and with competition with other platforms and priced themselves out of our market. An ISV that provides useful but non-essential software can't consistently price their products as the most expensive ISV products in the shop and not expect to draw the attention of cost-conscious upper management whose first question will always be "Do we really need this?". exactly correct, compuware thought they were god's gift to the world and as you indicated so elegantly, for non-essential software, and failed to recognize that both technical groups and management at many companies didn't hold that opinion of them. compuware has no one to blame but themselves. I feel sorry for the people, but not for the company. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
>compuware has no one to blame but themselves. I feel sorry for the people, but >not for the company. In all the places I've worked, I've only had STROBE in one shop, and as soon as we were outsourced, the product was dropped due to cost. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: STROBE Layoffs
We don't endorse any particular solution but currently use TriTune & APC from AQM Solutions http://www.aqm-solutions.com/ This space has some good options outside Strobe including FreezeFrame (Macro4), APA (IBM), TriTUne (AQM Solutions). Best Regards, Sam Knutson, GEICO System z Performance and Availability Management mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (office) 301.986.3574 "Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..." -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:23 AM No one replied so I guess no one cares. I'm surprised. Bob This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
