TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[ibm-main]

What is the world coming to ...
*this* group, in *this* industry arguing about one of *THE* most basic of
TLAs 

dear, oh dear ...

Shane ...

- Message - 

> All right... I'll say it... just because no-one else has...
> I always understood it was "Man Versus System"

- Message - 

>
> I am quite sure it means Multiple Virtual Storages

- Message - 

> Now that is incorrect English.
> Storage is both the singular and
> the plural.
>
> MVS: 'Multiple Virtual Storage'

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[John Ticic]

-- snip --
What is the world coming to ...
*this* group, in *this* industry arguing about one of *THE* most basic of
TLAs 

dear, oh dear ...

Shane ...

- Message -

> All right... I'll say it... just because no-one else has...
> I always understood it was "Man Versus System"

- Message -

>
> I am quite sure it means Multiple Virtual Storages
-- snip --

We should be arguing about z/OS (little zed slash big oh s) 

John.

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[ibm-main]

Well, at least you still know correct pronuniation   ;)
Last time I heard CC pontificate, he used z.ugh   

>From Bob Rogers, I can accept it - he probably doesn't know any better.
Marna tries her best when down under, but still slips up...:o)

BTW both are due in Sydney next week for Interaction - might have to drop
down there myself and have a listen.

Shane ...

- Original Message - 
From: "John Ticic"
> ...
> We should be arguing about z/OS (little zed slash big oh s) 

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
Well, at least you still know correct pronuniation   ;)
Last time I heard CC pontificate, he used z.ugh   !!!
...

Only one country in the world that uses “zee”.
Only one country in the world that spells “CICS”.

(My kids use both “zee” &  “zed” interchangably having grown up within
90 km of the Canada/US border (that's 45 miles for the one country that is 
still non-metric)
and watched both Canadian and American
“Sesame Street”.

-teD

In God we Trust!
All others bring data!
  -- W. Edwards Deming

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Craddock, Chris]

> 
> Well, at least you still know correct pronuniation   ;)
> Last time I heard CC pontificate, he used z  ugh   

John doesn't live in thelandathafree. Here it is "zeee" and
you get used to saying it that way or you will spend a lot of 
time saying it three four or five times in response to puzzled
looks.

:o)

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
Here it is "zeee" and
you get used to saying it that way or you will spend a lot of 
time saying it three four or five times in response to puzzled
looks
...
When I deal with my American counterparts, I still say 'Zed' and I pronounce 
rather than spell 'CICS'.
I also put all punctuation outside quotes,
spell it 'programme', 'ise' & 'our'.

One guy, in Santa Ana, told me it was 'quaint', but I'm not going to change.

(8-{]}

-teD

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All others bring data!
  -- W. Edwards Deming

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Charles Mills]

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

(My kids use both "zee" &  "zed" interchangably having grown up within
90 km of the Canada/US border (that's 45 miles for the one country that
is still non-metric) and watched both Canadian and American "Sesame
Street".

Canadian kilometers must be smaller than regular kilometers (like your
dollar?). 45 miles is only 72.42048 standard kilometers (kilometres if
you're in Quebec).



CM

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Howard Brazee]

On 20-Jul-2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ted MacNEIL) wrote:

> Only one country in the world that uses “zee”.

I've heard this - but I haven't checked with every English speaking country -
nor with all of the countries that have English as a secondary language.   One
would think that Japanese Taiwanese, or certainly Mexican would be more likely
to study USAmerican English than English English.I wonder how I could check
this out.   (A quick check with a Ukrainian American shows he learned "zed".)

> Only one country in the world that spells “CICS”.

My brother in California pronounced it.   It grated on my ears.  CICS is should
not become a word.   (I suppose it's better than saying Customer Information
Control System).

If you didn't know about CICS, and saw "Customer Information Control System",
offered for sale, what would you think was being offered?

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
Canadian kilometers must be smaller than regular kilometers (like your
dollar?). 45 miles is only 72.42048 standard kilometers (kilometres if
you're in Quebec).
...

My mistake -- 55 miles.

-teD

In God we Trust!
All others bring data!
  -- W. Edwards Deming

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
It grated on my ears.  CICS is should
not become a word.
...

Even Hersley (the IBM lab that wrote & supports) CICS pronounces it.
Who should know better?


-teD

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All others bring data!
  -- W. Edwards Deming

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Edward E. Jaffe]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:


...
It grated on my ears.  CICS is should
not become a word.
...

Even Hersley (the IBM lab that wrote & supports) CICS pronounces it.
Who should know better?
 



Agreed. And, by the same token, the people that named the operating 
system "z/OS" are located in New York. How do you suspect they pronounce it?


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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
 people that named the operating 
system "z/OS" are located in New York. How do you suspect they pronounce it?
...

I pronounce it 'ZED - OH ESS',
but I work with a bunch from Buffalo.
The call it 'ZEE - OSS'.


-teD

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Edward E. Jaffe]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:


...
people that named the operating 
system "z/OS" are located in New York. How do you suspect they pronounce it?

...

I pronounce it 'ZED - OH ESS',
but I work with a bunch from Buffalo.
The call it 'ZEE - OSS'.
 



The whims of a bunch of buffalo notwithstanding, the operating system is 
pronounced zee-oh-ess.


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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
The whims of a bunch of buffalo notwithstanding, the operating system is 
pronounced zee-oh-ess.
...

Not in Canada!
IBM Canada is calling it 'zed-oh-ess'.

-teD

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely

[john gilmore]

Ted MacNeil writes:



 Even Hersley [sic] (the IBM lab that wrote & supports) CICS pronounces 
it.  Who should know

 better?



and, Ted, if you're going to take positions on these niceties you must get 
your facts right.


CICS is and has for long been maintained at Hursley with a 'u',  but it was 
not written there: It was written by three IBM SEs (in that long-ago time 
when SEs wrote assembly language with facility) in the United States.


The notion that one English dialect is in all ways superior to the others is 
drole.  In the United States I say zee, and in the UK and its quondam 
colonies I say zed.


The educated are presumably familiar with both forms, as educated Brits know 
that a lift in an elevator in the United States and educated Americans know 
that molasses is treacle in the UK.


The uneducated are hostile to the unfamiliar, and it is usually simpler to 
adapt to what they say locally than it is to hold out for one's own foreign 
idiom.


One can of course have preferences.  I prefer our American fall to the 
British autumn, which the Brits once had but have lost.  (This is, oddly, 
very often the case: The notionally 'unique' American usage often turns out 
to be an old, obsolete British one.   Brits, for example, often deplore the 
American idiom 'I guess' when it doesn't mean 'I conjecture'; but they once 
had it too: Chaucer says it repeatedly.


John Gilmore
Ashland, MA 01721
USA

_
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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Bill Fairchild]

 
In a message dated 7/20/2005 4:41:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the  operating system is 
pronounced zee-oh-ess.
...

Not in  Canada!
IBM Canada is calling it 'zed-oh-ess'.




I usually pronounce it "emm-vee-ess" and thus inadvertently manage to  escape 
the zee-zed/zed-zee dispute.
 
Bill Fairchild

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Edward E. Jaffe]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:


...
The whims of a bunch of buffalo notwithstanding, the operating system is 
pronounced zee-oh-ess.

...

Not in Canada!
IBM Canada is calling it 'zed-oh-ess'.
 



Yup. And, when I visit Mexico, they call me SANE-YOUR HAH-FAY.

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Richards.Bob]

I hate ZOSS, but ZEE OSS is even worse! 

At least I can understand the reasoning behind ZED OH ESS

Bob 

 -Original Message-
From:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  On Behalf Of 
Ted MacNEIL
Sent:   Tuesday, July 19, 2005 8:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject:Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

...
 people that named the operating 
system "z/OS" are located in New York. How do you suspect they pronounce it?
...

I pronounce it 'ZED - OH ESS',
but I work with a bunch from Buffalo.
The call it 'ZEE - OSS'. 
  
  
  
LEGAL DISCLAIMER 
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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Richards.Bob]

Mister Boss!

Senor Jefe...gracias por la risa. Necesité uno hoy (thanks for the laugh, I 
needed one today).

Roberto

 -Original Message-
From:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  On Behalf Of 
Edward E. Jaffe
Sent:   Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject:Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

Ted MacNEIL wrote:

>...
>The whims of a bunch of buffalo notwithstanding, the operating system is 
>pronounced zee-oh-ess.
>...
>
>Not in Canada!
>IBM Canada is calling it 'zed-oh-ess'.
>  
>

Yup. And, when I visit Mexico, they call me SANE-YOUR HAH-FAY. 
  
  
  
LEGAL DISCLAIMER 
The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to 
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in 
reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended 
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Seeing Beyond Money is a service mark of SunTrust Banks, Inc. 
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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Edward E. Jaffe]

Richards.Bob wrote:


Mister Boss!

Senor Jefe...gracias por la risa. Necesité uno hoy (thanks for the laugh, I 
needed one today).

Roberto
 



De nada! (Vea mi firma ...)

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Rob Scott]

My brother-in-law's name is Ben Barker and he has just spent 3 years in
Japan teaching English to the locals.

Unfortunately, "Ben Barker" sounds very much like the Japanese for
"Stupid Poo"..


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Edward E. Jaffe
Sent: 20 July 2005 17:59
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

Ted MacNEIL wrote:

>...
>The whims of a bunch of buffalo notwithstanding, the operating system
is 
>pronounced zee-oh-ess.
>...
>
>Not in Canada!
>IBM Canada is calling it 'zed-oh-ess'.
>  
>

Yup. And, when I visit Mexico, they call me SANE-YOUR HAH-FAY.

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Chase, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
> 
> ...
> The whims of a bunch of buffalo notwithstanding, the 
> operating system is pronounced zee-oh-ess.
> ...
> 
> Not in Canada!
> IBM Canada is calling it 'zed-oh-ess'.

"Hello, Kettle?  This is Pot.  You're noir!"

-jc-

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely ...

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
'zed-oh-ess'.

"Hello, Kettle?  This is Pot.  You're noir!"
...

Zee/Zed was a big issue in Canada, when I was growing up in the 1960's.

It was a cultural thing similar to the concerns some third world countries have 
about being 'Westernised'.

I still will use 'Zed'.
-teD

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All others bring data!
  -- W. Edwards Deming

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely

[Chase, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of john gilmore
> 
> Ted MacNeil writes:
> 
> >  Even Hersley [sic] (the IBM lab that wrote & supports) CICS 
> >pronounces it.  Who should know better?
> >
> 
> and, Ted, if you're going to take positions on these niceties 
> you must get your facts right.
> 
> CICS is and has for long been maintained at Hursley with a 
> 'u',  but it was not written there: It was written by three 
> IBM SEs (in that long-ago time when SEs wrote assembly 
> language with facility) in the United States.

Des Plaines, Illinois, to be exact:  Approximately two miles (3.2 km) west
of my office.



-jc-

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely

[Mark Zelden]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 07:16:04 -0500, Chase, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Des Plaines, Illinois, to be exact:  Approximately two miles (3.2 km) west
>of my office.
>
>
>

Ahhh, the town grew up and lived in most of my life.  Home of the
first Micky D's.

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Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely

[Ray Mullins]

OT for a little correction - the first Mickey D's that Ray Kroc opened.

_The_ first Mickey D's was in Riverside, CA, with a second store on Route 66
in San Bernardino.  That's where Mr. Kroc stopped to eat one day, and was
very impressed with the assembly line process.

The rest, blah, blah, blah, and you can now get the same crappy hamburger
almost anywhere in the world.  :-)


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Mark Zelden
Sent: Thursday July 21 2005 06:29
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TLAs - was summit else entirely

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 07:16:04 -0500, Chase, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Des Plaines, Illinois, to be exact:  Approximately two miles (3.2 km) 
>west of my office.
>
><http://www.yelavich.com/history/ev196803.htm>
>

Ahhh, the town grew up and lived in most of my life.  Home of the first
Micky D's.

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