Re: Tape retention question
Or have your tape copy utility copy to virtual tape. As the background tape media changes, the files automatically move to the new media. This will keep it from deteriorating beyond readability and keep it on a media that you have drives for. Dennis Roach GHG Corporation Lockheed Martin Mission Services Flight Design and Operations Contract NASA/JSC Address: 2100 Space Park Drive LM-15-4BH Houston, Texas 77058 Mail: P.O. Box 58487 Mail Code H4C Houston, Texas 77258 Phone: Voice: (281)336-5027 Cell: (713)591-1059 Fax:(281)336-5410 E-Mail: dennis.ro...@lmco.com All opinions expressed by me are mine and may not agree with my employer or any person, company, or thing, living or dead, on or near this or any other planet, moon, asteroid, or other spatial object, natural or manufactured, since the beginning of time. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Russell Witt > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:48 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: Tape retention question > > Bill, > > Good questions, but still not enough of them. There is also the concern > about "do you have the devices needed to read the tapes" after xx > years? For > example, I know some shops still have a rack of 3420 round reels. They > haven't had a 3420 device for the past 10 years; but still have a rack > of > round reels. Even if they had a 3420 device, do you think they could > still > read the data off the tape. > > You state that from a capacity standpoint it is not practical to keep > 99365 > files forever. Here I must disagree with you. There are many > tape-copy/stacking utilities out there, some for a specific tape > management > system and some more generic. But they all do basically the same thing; > copy > and stack data while updating the tape management system to reflect the > original creation information (jobname, date, etc..). Also, the > capacity of > cartridges has gotten very-very large. Now, most shops would never > think > about putting 1-TB of HSM archive data onto a single tape (the > single-threading of recalls would be a huge delay); but for long term > retention they are great. You stack a couple of hundred/thousand > 3480/3490 > datasets onto two cartridges (always have a backup when the basket is > that > large) and you can set it on the shelf for 5-10 years. Then, take it > off the > shelf and copy it to the new latest/greatest cartridge type (what, 1-Pb > by > then I imagine). > > The real trick is to move the media forward at least every 5-10 years > for > the old data AND to stack these long-term files together to cut down on > the > media costs. The cost of a couple of high-capacity cartridges and > letting > them sit on a shelf is minor. Of course the cost of the device is high, > but > you would be upgrading at least every 5-10 years anyway. > > Just some other options to consider. > > Russell Witt > CA-1 L2 Support Manager > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu]on > Behalf Of William Bishop > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:01 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: Tape retention question > > > This question is more about the tapes we created years ago before we > went > to an SMS enviornment and how do sites "clean-up" tapes that sit for > several years that for the most part were from application sets that we > no > longer run. > > A second type would be for retired applications, do you keep all the > GDGs > that existed when the application stopped? How many do versions you > keep? > For how long? > > I believe most of us have to beg the old application owners to review > their files and tell us when we can get rid of them, but I am asking is > do > some sites have a process that says after x years, unless specifically > requested, old tape files get deleted? Expdt=99365 says to keep the > files > forever, but from a legal standpoint, and from a capacity standpoint, > that > is not always practical. Also, in olden days, expiration date > managment > was left more to the original jcl developers. > > Thanks > > Bill Bishop > > Specialist > Mainframe Support Group > Server Development & Support > Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America, Inc. > bill.bis...@tema.toyota.com > (502) 570-6143 > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >
Re: Tape retention question
Bill, Good questions, but still not enough of them. There is also the concern about "do you have the devices needed to read the tapes" after xx years? For example, I know some shops still have a rack of 3420 round reels. They haven't had a 3420 device for the past 10 years; but still have a rack of round reels. Even if they had a 3420 device, do you think they could still read the data off the tape. You state that from a capacity standpoint it is not practical to keep 99365 files forever. Here I must disagree with you. There are many tape-copy/stacking utilities out there, some for a specific tape management system and some more generic. But they all do basically the same thing; copy and stack data while updating the tape management system to reflect the original creation information (jobname, date, etc..). Also, the capacity of cartridges has gotten very-very large. Now, most shops would never think about putting 1-TB of HSM archive data onto a single tape (the single-threading of recalls would be a huge delay); but for long term retention they are great. You stack a couple of hundred/thousand 3480/3490 datasets onto two cartridges (always have a backup when the basket is that large) and you can set it on the shelf for 5-10 years. Then, take it off the shelf and copy it to the new latest/greatest cartridge type (what, 1-Pb by then I imagine). The real trick is to move the media forward at least every 5-10 years for the old data AND to stack these long-term files together to cut down on the media costs. The cost of a couple of high-capacity cartridges and letting them sit on a shelf is minor. Of course the cost of the device is high, but you would be upgrading at least every 5-10 years anyway. Just some other options to consider. Russell Witt CA-1 L2 Support Manager -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu]on Behalf Of William Bishop Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Tape retention question This question is more about the tapes we created years ago before we went to an SMS enviornment and how do sites "clean-up" tapes that sit for several years that for the most part were from application sets that we no longer run. A second type would be for retired applications, do you keep all the GDGs that existed when the application stopped? How many do versions you keep? For how long? I believe most of us have to beg the old application owners to review their files and tell us when we can get rid of them, but I am asking is do some sites have a process that says after x years, unless specifically requested, old tape files get deleted? Expdt=99365 says to keep the files forever, but from a legal standpoint, and from a capacity standpoint, that is not always practical. Also, in olden days, expiration date managment was left more to the original jcl developers. Thanks Bill Bishop Specialist Mainframe Support Group Server Development & Support Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America, Inc. bill.bis...@tema.toyota.com (502) 570-6143 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Tape retention question
William Bishop pisze: This question is more about the tapes we created years ago before we went to an SMS enviornment and how do sites "clean-up" tapes that sit for several years that for the most part were from application sets that we no longer run. A second type would be for retired applications, do you keep all the GDGs that existed when the application stopped? How many do versions you keep? For how long? I believe most of us have to beg the old application owners to review their files and tell us when we can get rid of them, but I am asking is do some sites have a process that says after x years, unless specifically requested, old tape files get deleted? Expdt=99365 says to keep the files forever, but from a legal standpoint, and from a capacity standpoint, that is not always practical. Also, in olden days, expiration date managment was left more to the original jcl developers. This is not technical question! How can I know whether all *your* GDGs are really needed? It depends on application. You Retention period depends on internal (company) and external regulations. It has *nothing* to do with SMS, RMM, EXPDT, lack of them or tape technology. If you are storage person, you should ask other folks in your company. I would do it. In case of lack of reasonable response I would put *all the content of all old tapes* to a new tape media. Two copies, prefferably WORM. And keep listing of the content. Fortunately capacity of the media grows exponentially so probably it wouldn't hurt to much. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Tape retention question
This question is more about the tapes we created years ago before we went to an SMS enviornment and how do sites "clean-up" tapes that sit for several years that for the most part were from application sets that we no longer run. A second type would be for retired applications, do you keep all the GDGs that existed when the application stopped? How many do versions you keep? For how long? I believe most of us have to beg the old application owners to review their files and tell us when we can get rid of them, but I am asking is do some sites have a process that says after x years, unless specifically requested, old tape files get deleted? Expdt=99365 says to keep the files forever, but from a legal standpoint, and from a capacity standpoint, that is not always practical. Also, in olden days, expiration date managment was left more to the original jcl developers. Thanks Bill Bishop Specialist Mainframe Support Group Server Development & Support Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America, Inc. bill.bis...@tema.toyota.com (502) 570-6143 "Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM" Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 06/11/2009 02:42 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: Tape retention question "William Bishop" wrote in message news:... > I have a request. I am working to try and get management to let me clean > up some old tapes in preparation for a potential library replacement and > they would like to know what other practices are. > > What do other sites do for mainframe tape data retention for > files created either prior to a site implementing SMS policies for > data retention or for sites that do not use SMS policies to manage their > default tape data retention? > > This would be more directed towards how long a file is kept after > creation and would override default catalog control, but not EXPDT > retentions. > > Thanks > > Bill Bishop > All our tapes have a retention period assigned by the Tape Management System. Tapes created without an entry in the RDS are kept for 3 weeks. The same applies to most Production datasets. User datasets are kept until the user deletes them. I am planning to make tapes SMS managed and make them more similar to disk datasets, i.e. provide an expiration date where possible and keep the others until they are uncataloged. We have the SMS policy that every dataset should be cataloged, extended to all our datasets along time ago. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Tape retention question
"William Bishop" wrote in message news:... > I have a request. I am working to try and get management to let me clean > up some old tapes in preparation for a potential library replacement and > they would like to know what other practices are. > > What do other sites do for mainframe tape data retention for > files created either prior to a site implementing SMS policies for > data retention or for sites that do not use SMS policies to manage their > default tape data retention? > > This would be more directed towards how long a file is kept after > creation and would override default catalog control, but not EXPDT > retentions. > > Thanks > > Bill Bishop > All our tapes have a retention period assigned by the Tape Management System. Tapes created without an entry in the RDS are kept for 3 weeks. The same applies to most Production datasets. User datasets are kept until the user deletes them. I am planning to make tapes SMS managed and make them more similar to disk datasets, i.e. provide an expiration date where possible and keep the others until they are uncataloged. We have the SMS policy that every dataset should be cataloged, extended to all our datasets along time ago. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Tape retention question
I have a request. I am working to try and get management to let me clean up some old tapes in preparation for a potential library replacement and they would like to know what other practices are. What do other sites do for mainframe tape data retention for files created either prior to a site implementing SMS policies for data retention or for sites that do not use SMS policies to manage their default tape data retention? This would be more directed towards how long a file is kept after creation and would override default catalog control, but not EXPDT retentions. Thanks Bill Bishop Specialist Mainframe Support Group Server Development & Support Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America, Inc. bill.bis...@tema.toyota.com (502) 570-6143 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
