Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Tom Marchant pisze: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:00:30 -0500, zMan wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Tom Marchant wrote: A z10 is not 4 times faster than a z9 with the same number of engines, or even for maximum z9 compared to maximum z10. Not even close. It is closer to a 50% increase. Check the LSPR for details. Isn't it more like 2x, "reduced" to about 1.5x due to the "technology dividend"? Good point. IIRC, the technology dividend is about 10% and it does make a difference but still considerably less than 2x, I think. Facts: z9-701 vs z10-701 Clock: 1.7GHz vs 4.4 GHz MSU: 81 vs 115 MIPS: 580 vs 920 Two times faster could mean clock speed, which is rather useless for the user. Real CPU speed, without "technology divident" marketing tricks is roughly 1:1.5 - very similar as for z/990 vs z9 (450 vs 600), or z/900 vs z/990 (300 vs 450). BTW: "technology divident" is more tricky than it look like. MSU base is indeed lower by approx. 9%, but software fee as a function(MSU) is non-linear, so your fees need not to be 9% lower. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:00:30 -0500, zMan wrote: >On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Tom Marchant wrote: > >> A z10 is not 4 times faster than a >> z9 with the same number of engines, or even for maximum z9 compared to >> maximum z10. Not even close. It is closer to a 50% increase. Check the >> LSPR for details. >> > >Isn't it more like 2x, "reduced" to about 1.5x due to the "technology >dividend"? Good point. IIRC, the technology dividend is about 10% and it does make a difference but still considerably less than 2x, I think. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Tom Marchant wrote: > A z10 is not 4 times faster than a > z9 with the same number of engines, or even for maximum z9 compared to > maximum z10. Not even close. It is closer to a 50% increase. Check the > LSPR for details. > Isn't it more like 2x, "reduced" to about 1.5x due to the "technology dividend"? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:18:40 -0600, Trivers Software wrote: >isn't it also 4 times faster, for only 50% increase. >Wouldn't 4 times as many servers would be 400% increase in power, >so 50% versus 400% increase is a big savings. So it might actually be green? It would be helpful if you'd quote a bit of what you are replying to. I suspect that you are replying to Radoslaw's statement that the z10 uses twice as much electrical power as a z9. A z10 is not 4 times faster than a z9 with the same number of engines, or even for maximum z9 compared to maximum z10. Not even close. It is closer to a 50% increase. Check the LSPR for details. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
isn't it also 4 times faster, for only 50% increase. Wouldn't 4 times as many servers would be 400% increase in power, so 50% versus 400% increase is a big savings. So it might actually be green? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
I should have said "...in normal operations." - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:03:56 +0100, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: > >No, based in the internal activity. The modern version of the 360, so >you can again see what's going on inside, more or less. > Gee! A mood ring for your computer. Hang it in front of the blower exhaust. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:21:28 +0100, R.S. wrote: >>> >> So, no power reduction when a processor is in a wait state? > >I don't know. I suspect no. In PC program hang usually means 100% CPU >utilization. BTW: Power consuption depends on type of instruction >performed. I was told that it was analyzed by IBM constructors - what >parts of CPU are heated during given operations. > OTOH, on my laptop I have a pair of bar graphs showing CPU utilization averaged over the previous few seconds. When the bars rise above 50%, I hear the fans start to speed up. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vernooij, CP - SPLXM > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:04 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs > No, based in the internal activity. The modern version of the 360, so > you can again see what's going on inside, more or less. > > Kees. Ah, an 360/195 type display. Guaranteed to make the Wintel weenies die of envy! But, of course, to be more modern, the lights themselves need to be of the multicolored LED variety. Perhaps in a 3d matrix. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: > > No, based in the internal activity. The modern version of the 360, so > you can again see what's going on inside, more or less. > That would be way cool! But I'm betting on green -- maybe 2 stripes. Or 11. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
John, Can't be red. That was also the color of one of the generations of 9672 boxes. Gen 5 I believe??? I think our model R16 had the red stripe. I think the official color of our z9-BC is periwinkle?? My CE prefers to call it "tinky-winky purple". I still think IBM should have put in a sealed water tube behind the purple stripe and ran a bubbler through it, like an old-time jukebox! Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 7:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [On Behalf Of Martin Packer > > [ snip ] > > And on the "green z10" question I have to ask: What colour WOULD you have > liked the stripe to be? :-) How about Red? Oops; sorry, that was "Amdahl's color". :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: "McKown, John" wrote in message news:. .. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:49 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Birger Heede wrote: Shouldn't a hybrid be multicolored? I like it -- a rainbow stripe. Which will then be interpreted in other ways... I'd prefer diffraction grating. Beautiful colors! Ever changing, based on the light source. -- John McKown No, based in the internal activity. The modern version of the 360, so you can again see what's going on inside, more or less. Kees. Ah, you miss all the blinking lights, eh? -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques Ask me about our new, reduced rates for purchasing our course materials for use by your own trainers or Subject Matter Experts (SMEs). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
"McKown, John" wrote in message news:. .. > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan > > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:49 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > > Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs > > > > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Birger Heede wrote: > > > > > Shouldn't a hybrid be multicolored? > > > > > > > I like it -- a rainbow stripe. Which will then be interpreted in other > > ways... > > I'd prefer diffraction grating. Beautiful colors! Ever changing, based on the light source. > > -- > John McKown No, based in the internal activity. The modern version of the 360, so you can again see what's going on inside, more or less. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:49 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs > > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Birger Heede wrote: > > > Shouldn't a hybrid be multicolored? > > > > I like it -- a rainbow stripe. Which will then be interpreted in other > ways... I'd prefer diffraction grating. Beautiful colors! Ever changing, based on the light source. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Compare the total power consumption of a z/10 to the consumption of the server farm (potentially 1000's of squatty boxes) it can replace. This is why it can be considered a "green machine". An example would be "green z10" - I wouldn't really care about power consumption unless I heard opinions "oh, it's green - that's fine it consumes less energy". It consumes 50% more. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:09:20 +0100, R.S. wrote: >Timothy Sipples pisze: >[...] >> Also, I'm quite sure that there's presently no cycle steering or other >> clock speed tricks to adjust power consumption dynamically, at least on the >> z cores. Considering the role mainframes play (running at high utilization >> rates), this design philosophy, to optimize for continuous operations, >> makes a lot of sense. > >Wrong. Cycle steering is present when REALLY needed. That means when >temperature grows up. It was discussed on the forum. Of course it covers >all the CPs. > Yes. And you see message IWM063I when it happens. Al Sherkow has a nice little write up about it. http://www.sherkow.com/updates/20081014cooling.html Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Paul Gilmartin pisze: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:09:20 +0100, R.S. wrote: Timothy Sipples pisze: [...] Also, I'm quite sure that there's presently no cycle steering or other clock speed tricks to adjust power consumption dynamically, at least on the z cores. Considering the role mainframes play (running at high utilization rates), this design philosophy, to optimize for continuous operations, makes a lot of sense. Wrong. Cycle steering is present when REALLY needed. That means when temperature grows up. It was discussed on the forum. Of course it covers all the CPs. So, no power reduction when a processor is in a wait state? I don't know. I suspect no. In PC program hang usually means 100% CPU utilization. BTW: Power consuption depends on type of instruction performed. I was told that it was analyzed by IBM constructors - what parts of CPU are heated during given operations. And capped general engines use no less power than specialty engines? What if _all_ CPs are capped? Capped engines work on full speed. Capping does mean that some CPU cycles are stolen by microcode. I mean models like 401, 606, not HMC capping. So even the slowest z10EC 401 works on the same CPU speed as 701. Proof: zIIP etc. works on full speed and they can share the same physical PU (sorry for pleonasm). Of course HMC capping does not change CPU speed as well. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchwały XVI NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym BRE Banku SA będą w całości opłacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:09:20 +0100, R.S. wrote: >Timothy Sipples pisze: >[...] >> Also, I'm quite sure that there's presently no cycle steering or other >> clock speed tricks to adjust power consumption dynamically, at least on the >> z cores. Considering the role mainframes play (running at high utilization >> rates), this design philosophy, to optimize for continuous operations, >> makes a lot of sense. > >Wrong. Cycle steering is present when REALLY needed. That means when >temperature grows up. It was discussed on the forum. Of course it covers >all the CPs. > So, no power reduction when a processor is in a wait state? And capped general engines use no less power than specialty engines? What if _all_ CPs are capped? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [On Behalf Of Martin Packer > > [ snip ] > > And on the "green z10" question I have to ask: What colour WOULD you have > liked the stripe to be? :-) How about Red? Oops; sorry, that was "Amdahl's color". :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
"R.S." wrote in message news:<4b6fc6b0.2000...@bremultibank.com.pl>... > Timothy Sipples pisze: > [...] > > Also, I'm quite sure that there's presently no cycle steering or other > > clock speed tricks to adjust power consumption dynamically, at least on the > > z cores. Considering the role mainframes play (running at high utilization > > rates), this design philosophy, to optimize for continuous operations, > > makes a lot of sense. > > Wrong. Cycle steering is present when REALLY needed. That means when > temperature grows up. It was discussed on the forum. Of course it covers > all the CPs. > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka Correct, we had one last weekend: IWM063I WLM POLICY WAS REFRESHED DUE TO A PROCESSOR SPEED CHANGE This time it was because of a powersupply failure. Last time it was because of a failed cooling fan, this time probably because of a fan stopped by the failed powersupply. The processor slows down to reduce heatproduction. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Timothy Sipples pisze: [...] Also, I'm quite sure that there's presently no cycle steering or other clock speed tricks to adjust power consumption dynamically, at least on the z cores. Considering the role mainframes play (running at high utilization rates), this design philosophy, to optimize for continuous operations, makes a lot of sense. Wrong. Cycle steering is present when REALLY needed. That means when temperature grows up. It was discussed on the forum. Of course it covers all the CPs. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
>As for the point that was made about the power rating not >changing: that's probably a nominal rating. It's OK to use >less :-): Phil's point is quite valid. My understanding -- and a hardware engineer can step in if I'm incorrect -- is that certainly you're going to have power consumption variations at book boundaries. That is, if you've got an EC machine with one processor book installed it'll use less power than an EC machine with 3 books installed (and used). Also, I'm quite sure that there's presently no cycle steering or other clock speed tricks to adjust power consumption dynamically, at least on the z cores. Considering the role mainframes play (running at high utilization rates), this design philosophy, to optimize for continuous operations, makes a lot of sense. I think there are occasions when installed cores are not powered up, but I can't really characterize when that occurs. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Yep Z10 consumes 50% more than z9, that is a fact. I guess that is why they talked about it's Green attitude 50 % more (My attempt at a joke ) Sure it is plain lies, but let us take it easy as we do not usually listen to Marketing bulls..t talk. But yes it is annoying Bruno Sugliani zxnetconsult(at)free(dot)fr On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:23:21 +0100, R.S. wrote: >I really DON'T CARE. >I'm not daltonist, but I don't care what color is on the box I see >rarely (because I prefer working on it remotely, in my armchair). ;-) >Oh, you can call me advertisement & marketing - proof. The only emotion >that can be >aroused is discouragement when I hear bullsh*t. An example would be >"green z10" - I wouldn't really care about power consumpiotn unless I >heard opinions "oh, it's green - that's fine it consumes less energy". >It consumes 50% more. >-- >Radoslaw Skorupka >Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
W dniu 2010-02-07 12:44, Martin Packer pisze: [...] I think we have to accept that the economics of platforms will be an ongoing matter of competition - so personally I DO care. But I do think it's a matter of overall usage, rather than component usage. So this detailed conversation IS of interest but not so much. In fact our opinions are similar, however I'm aware that power consumption, or rather "low power mode" for unused CPs are completely irrelevant in the budget, especially when compared to z/OS license fees or H/W maintenance fees. And on the "green z10" question I have to ask: What colour WOULD you have liked the stripe to be? :-) I really DON'T CARE. I'm not daltonist, but I don't care what color is on the box I see rarely (because I prefer working on it remotely, in my armchair). ;-) Oh, you can call me advertisement & marketing - proof. The only emotion that can be aroused is discouragement when I hear bullsh*t. An example would be "green z10" - I wouldn't really care about power consumpiotn unless I heard opinions "oh, it's green - that's fine it consumes less energy". It consumes 50% more. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Birger Heede wrote: > Shouldn't a hybrid be multicolored? > I like it -- a rainbow stripe. Which will then be interpreted in other ways... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Shouldn't a hybrid be multicolored? Birger Heede On 07-02-2010 16:32, zMan wrote: On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Martin Packerwrote: (Actually a friend of mine showed me the green swatches in the middle of 2008, having been deeply involved in the colour choice. In 2006 I had suggested to HIM that the colour be green, as a marketing "giggle". :-) ) That's a fun story! Glad you didn't suggest pink. Which makes me wonder what color zNext will be. My prediction (based on nothing) is that they stay with green. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Martin Packer wrote: > (Actually a friend of mine showed me the green swatches in the middle of > 2008, having been deeply involved in the colour choice. In 2006 I had > suggested to HIM that the colour be green, as a marketing "giggle". :-) ) > That's a fun story! Glad you didn't suggest pink. Which makes me wonder what color zNext will be. My prediction (based on nothing) is that they stay with green. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: > BTW: I really DON'T CARE whether CPUs in server has such feature or not. > This is the last place I would expect such feature. Power consumption of > mainframe is the last issue I would worry about. Even after weight and > floor space. > > BTW2: As a conlusion, I have no interest to proving neither high nor low > power consumption. IBMers could have some demand to speak higly of > mainframe. However someone exaggerated a little: since BOTH z9 and z10 > do have power saving facilities then why IBM said so much about "green" > z10? I think we have to accept that the economics of platforms will be an ongoing matter of competition - so personally I DO care. But I do think it's a matter of overall usage, rather than component usage. So this detailed conversation IS of interest but not so much. And on the "green z10" question I have to ask: What colour WOULD you have liked the stripe to be? :-) (Actually a friend of mine showed me the green swatches in the middle of 2008, having been deeply involved in the colour choice. In 2006 I had suggested to HIM that the colour be green, as a marketing "giggle". :-) ) Martin Packer, Mainframe Performance Consultant, Software Group Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
W dniu 2010-02-05 20:41, Phil Smith III pisze: Answer from a knowledgeable IBMer: The answer is yes, the z9 and z10 processors will go into "low power" mode when not in use. On z9 this is on a chip basis, on z10 this is on a core basis (so the effect is better). For z this effectively means those chips/cores which are not characterized (i.e. spares). As for the point that was made about the power rating not changing: that's probably a nominal rating. It's OK to use less :-) Power estimation tool on the web can be called nominal rating. Real measurements cannot. Real measurements *shows* that activation of CPU does not change power consumption in measurable way. Maybe some processor parts are in low power mode, but overall is not affected by the feature. BTW: I really DON'T CARE whether CPUs in server has such feature or not. This is the last place I would expect such feature. Power consumption of mainframe is the last issue I would worry about. Even after weight and floor space. BTW2: As a conlusion, I have no interest to proving neither high nor low power consumption. IBMers could have some demand to speak higly of mainframe. However someone exaggerated a little: since BOTH z9 and z10 do have power saving facilities then why IBM said so much about "green" z10? -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Answer from a knowledgeable IBMer: >The answer is yes, the z9 and z10 processors will go into "low power" mode >when not in use. On z9 this is on a chip basis, on z10 this is on a core basis >(so the effect is better). For z this effectively means those chips/cores >which are not characterized (i.e. spares). As for the point that was made about the power rating not changing: that's probably a nominal rating. It's OK to use less :-) ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of R.S. > Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:07 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs > > The answer is YES, all CPs are powered up. > > Proof: power consumption does not depend on capacity model, > it depends > on number of books. In other words z10 2097-E12 701 consumes the same > power as 2097-E12 712 or 710 + 2 ICF, etc. > Been there measured that. Another confirmation would be power > estimator > available on Resourcelink. > Oh, BTW: The "green" z10EC consumes 50% more power than z9EC (single > book configurations). > Green is a color... > > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka Thanks. I guess it was simplier to engineer that scenario. And I don't know if powering down the unused CPs would even make a significant impact on the over all power consumption. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
Having spoken to someone who knows what he is talking about, the Power 6 has power management logic in it to 'turn off' unused parts of the processor. The z/10 shares parts of its design from the Power processors, so it would not surprise me that it does 'power down' the unused processors or parts of them. I will attempt to get a more complete answer over the weekend. Chris Blaicher Phone: 512-340-6154 Mobile: 512-627-3803 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs While I have not actual knowledge, I suspect that all processors on an installed MCM are powered up. Reason being is dynamic sparing if an individual processor fails, etc. Maybe someone from IBM will speak up, but probably not. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex R. Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:06 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs John, Not a weird question at all. I have the same question - and unfortunately no answer for it. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs This is a weird question (again). But I know that Intel processor can go into a low power state when they are not being used. This is to reduce the power requirements based upon need (and to extend laptop battery time). So I was curious if the CPs, especially the unlicensed / unused, in a z9 or z10 would likewise be in a lower power state? After all, if I cannot use the CP for anything, why should it be using electricity? Just a curiousity. John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
McKown, John pisze: This is a weird question (again). But I know that Intel processor can go into a low power state when they are not being used. This is to reduce the power requirements based upon need (and to extend laptop battery time). So I was curious if the CPs, especially the unlicensed / unused, in a z9 or z10 would likewise be in a lower power state? After all, if I cannot use the CP for anything, why should it be using electricity? Just a curiousity. The answer is YES, all CPs are powered up. Proof: power consumption does not depend on capacity model, it depends on number of books. In other words z10 2097-E12 701 consumes the same power as 2097-E12 712 or 710 + 2 ICF, etc. Been there measured that. Another confirmation would be power estimator available on Resourcelink. Oh, BTW: The "green" z10EC consumes 50% more power than z9EC (single book configurations). Green is a color... -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
While I have not actual knowledge, I suspect that all processors on an installed MCM are powered up. Reason being is dynamic sparing if an individual processor fails, etc. Maybe someone from IBM will speak up, but probably not. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex R. Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:06 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs John, Not a weird question at all. I have the same question - and unfortunately no answer for it. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs This is a weird question (again). But I know that Intel processor can go into a low power state when they are not being used. This is to reduce the power requirements based upon need (and to extend laptop battery time). So I was curious if the CPs, especially the unlicensed / unused, in a z9 or z10 would likewise be in a lower power state? After all, if I cannot use the CP for anything, why should it be using electricity? Just a curiousity. John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
John, Not a weird question at all. I have the same question - and unfortunately no answer for it. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs This is a weird question (again). But I know that Intel processor can go into a low power state when they are not being used. This is to reduce the power requirements based upon need (and to extend laptop battery time). So I was curious if the CPs, especially the unlicensed / unused, in a z9 or z10 would likewise be in a lower power state? After all, if I cannot use the CP for anything, why should it be using electricity? Just a curiousity. John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
z9 / z10 hardware question - unused CPs
This is a weird question (again). But I know that Intel processor can go into a low power state when they are not being used. This is to reduce the power requirements based upon need (and to extend laptop battery time). So I was curious if the CPs, especially the unlicensed / unused, in a z9 or z10 would likewise be in a lower power state? After all, if I cannot use the CP for anything, why should it be using electricity? Just a curiousity. John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
