Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[Jack J. Woehr]

Jack J. Woehr wrote:

OOPS mistake should be this:


sftp -b - -v use...@remote.ssh.server

Note the "-" after the "-b" before the "-v"

I did it right below \/\/\/\/\/\/


The "-b - " tells sftp to read in batch mode from standard in. That might work.





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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[Jack J. Woehr]

venkat kulkarni wrote:

Venkat ... in this part of the JCL:

OSHELL { echo 'password'; +
>  echo 'cd /tmp'; +
>  echo 'ascii'; +
>  echo 'put/tmp/SOME.FILE.NAME '; } | +
>sftp -vuse...@remote.ssh.server


Try changing the last line to this:

   sftp -b -v use...@remote.ssh.server

The "-b - " tells sftp to read in batch mode from standard in. That might work.

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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[venkat kulkarni]

Hello Jack, thanks for reply.

John, can you please help in answering query raised by back on the JCL you
provided for this sftp.

On Dec 7, 2016 10:42, "Jack J. Woehr"  wrote:

> venkat kulkarni wrote:
>
>> Yes but if you look at Job output and it's tries to authenticate using
>> public key , password , interactive but all failing. I sent you job out in
>> earlier response.
>>
>
> That's always the way an ssh connection is established (unless you use
> args to prevent it).
>
> ssh and scp and sftp ... they're all almost the same program
>
> They will try key negotiation first, then finally password. The failures
> in key negotiation you are seeing are not really errors.
>
> The error is here:
>
> debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
> (errno2=0
>
> debug1: Authentications that can continue:
> publickey,password,keyboard-interacti
>
> FOTS1346 Permission denied, please try
> again.
>
> debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
> (errno2=0
>
> debug1: Authentications that can continue:
> publickey,password,keyboard-interacti
>
> FOTS1346 Permission denied, please try
> again.
>
> debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
> (errno2=0
>
>
> SFTP is trying three (3) times to open the tty device to read a password.
> It's not succeeding.
>
> I don't understand how z/OS SFTP and the JCL you have been given are
> supposed to interact, but it's not working.
>
> This part of the JCL:
>
> OSHELL { echo 'password'; +
>  echo 'cd /tmp'; +
>  echo 'ascii'; +
>  echo 'put/tmp/SOME.FILE.NAME '; } | +
>sftp -vuse...@remote.ssh.server
>
> Is not successfully putting the password to the server.
>
>
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe
> www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. -
> Carl Sagan
>
>
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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[Jack J. Woehr]

venkat kulkarni wrote:

Yes but if you look at Job output and it's tries to authenticate using
public key , password , interactive but all failing. I sent you job out in
earlier response.


That's always the way an ssh connection is established (unless you use args to 
prevent it).

ssh and scp and sftp ... they're all almost the same program

They will try key negotiation first, then finally password. The failures in key negotiation you are seeing are not 
really errors.


The error is here:

debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
(errno2=0

debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

FOTS1346 Permission denied, please try
again.

debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
(errno2=0

debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

FOTS1346 Permission denied, please try
again.

debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
(errno2=0


SFTP is trying three (3) times to open the tty device to read a password. It's 
not succeeding.

I don't understand how z/OS SFTP and the JCL you have been given are supposed 
to interact, but it's not working.

This part of the JCL:

OSHELL { echo 'password'; +
 echo 'cd /tmp'; +
 echo 'ascii'; +
 echo 'put/tmp/SOME.FILE.NAME '; } | +
   sftp -vuse...@remote.ssh.server

Is not successfully putting the password to the server.



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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan


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Re: JES2 Changes in z/OS V2.2 - Presentation from 2015

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Lizette Koehler wrote:

> Just in case no one saw this from 2015. I thought I would share this 
> presentation by IBM

Many thanks, Lizette for sharing this nice and useful presentation.

I will share this to my z/OS Team. 

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[venkat kulkarni]

Yes but if you look at Job output and it's tries to authenticate using
public key , password , interactive but all failing. I sent you job out in
earlier response.

Regards

On Dec 7, 2016 09:14, "Jack J. Woehr"  wrote:

> venkat kulkarni wrote:
>
>> ... I tried to solve this key issue but no success so far. Please suggest.
>>
>
> Excuse my previous response, looks like you're trying to authenticate with
> password instead of keys.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe
> www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. -
> Carl Sagan
>
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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[venkat kulkarni]

Hello,

Yes .ssh Dir on target host is 700 and authorized_keys file is 600
permission .

To give you more detail in created authorized _keys file in target system
by copying id_dsa.pub file from z/os side of .ssh directory under my user
name home directory.

But I am still getting same issue

On Dec 7, 2016 09:10, "Jack J. Woehr"  wrote:

> venkat kulkarni wrote:
>
>> Sorry for delay in response and I tried the JCL you suggest for sftp
>> transfer but getting below issue on job output
>>
>
> Make sure the target .ssh directory (where the authorized_keys file is) is
> chmod 700 and the authorized_keys file itself is chmod 600.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe
> www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. -
> Carl Sagan
>
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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[Jack J. Woehr]

venkat kulkarni wrote:

... I tried to solve this key issue but no success so far. Please suggest.


Excuse my previous response, looks like you're trying to authenticate with 
password instead of keys.

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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[Jack J. Woehr]

venkat kulkarni wrote:

Sorry for delay in response and I tried the JCL you suggest for sftp
transfer but getting below issue on job output


Make sure the target .ssh directory (where the authorized_keys file is) is chmod 700 and the authorized_keys file itself 
is chmod 600.


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Re: TSO Setup on SSH

[venkat kulkarni]

Hello John,
Sorry for delay in response and I tried the JCL you suggest for sftp
transfer but getting below issue on job output

debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

debug1: Next authentication method:
publickey

debug1: Trying private key:
/u/ibm08/.ssh/id_rsa

debug1: Offering DSA public key:
/u/ibm08/.ssh/id_dsa

debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

debug1: Trying private key:
/u/ibm08/.ssh/id_ecdsa

debug1: Next authentication method: keyboard-interactive


debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

debug1: Next authentication method:
password

debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
(errno2=0

debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

FOTS1346 Permission denied, please try
again.

debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
(errno2=0

debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

FOTS1346 Permission denied, please try
again.

debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: EDC5128I No such device.
(errno2=0

debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interacti

debug1: No more authentication methods to
try.

FOTS1373 Permission denied
(publickey,password,keyboard-interactive).

debug1: zsshSmfSetConnSmfStatus: SMF status is
0

FOTS0841 Connection closed

... I tried to solve this key issue but no success so far. Please suggest.

On Dec 1, 2016 19:17, "John McKown"  wrote:

> Damn it, forgot to make one change in the command stream.
>
> //JOBNAME JOB ACCT,NAME,CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=H,
> // NOTIFY=
> //SFTP EXEC PGM=IKJEFT01,REGION=0M
> //SYSTSPRT DD   SYSOUT=*
> //SYSEXEC  DD   DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.SBPXEXEC (MAY BE DIFFERENT)
> //SYSTSIN  DD   *
> OPUT 'SOME.DATA.SET.NAME ' '/tmp/
> SOME.FILE.NAME
> '
> OSHELL { echo 'password'; +
>  echo 'cd /tmp'; +
>  echo 'ascii'; +
>  echo 'put /tmp/SOME.FILE.NAME '; } | +
>sftp -v use...@remote.ssh.server
> /*
> //* CHANGE password TO ACTUAL PASSWORD
> //* CHANGE cd COMMAND TO ACTUAL REMOTE DIRECTORY
> //* REMOVE ascii LINE FOR BINARY TRANSFER
> //* CHANGE userid TO REMOTE USER'S ID
> //* CHANGE remote.ssh.server TO ACTUAL DNS NAME/IP ADDR
> //SCP  EXEC PGM=IKJEFT01,REGION=0M
> //SYSTSPRT DD   SYSOUT=*
> //SYSEXEC  DD   DISP=SHR,DSN=SYS1.SBPXEXEC (MAY BE DIFFERENT)
> //SYSTSIN  DD   *
> OPUT 'SOME.DATA.SET.NAME ' '/tmp/
> SOME.FILE.NAME
> '
> OSHELL echo 'password' | +
>scp /tmp/SOME.FILE.NAME  +
>use...@remote.ssh.server:-
> /tmp/SOME.UNIXFILE.NAME 
> /*
> //* CHANGE password TO ACTUAL PASSWORD
> //* CHANGE userid TO ACTUAL REMOTE USER ID
> //* CHANGE remote.ssh.server TO ACTUAL DNS NAME/IP ADDR
> //*  CRITICAL 
> //* Note that scp command is spread over 3 lines due to
> //* length of SYSTSIN input line. TSO will concatenate
> //* them together into one logical line. IT IS CRITICAL
> //* that you notice that I put the output file name
> //* (/tmp/SOME.UNIXFILE.NAME ) on its own line
> //* IT IS CRITICAL that this start in column 1.
> //* IT IS ALSO CRITICAL that the previous line
> //* end in a dash instead of a plus and that the dash
> //* is _IMMEDIATELY_ after the colon. This is to
> //* force TSO to concatenate all these characters together
> //* without any spaces, which would destroy the UNIX
> //* command line.
> //
> ​
>
>
> --
> Heisenberg may have been here.
>
> Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
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Re: COBOL in demand?

[Rugen, Len]

I haven't touched COBOL since I supported CICS.  I did use it for some fairly 
trivial CICS applications instead of Assembler, but after using less COBOL and 
more Assembler, I rarely started anything new in Cobol.


I remember generating shear horror in a manager one time, a long time ago.  We 
had a pretty massive file layout change, many record types, many fields, the 
doc was pages of old layout, new layout.  I had never used "move corresponding" 
and was somewhat bored, so I redefined the new file format using the same field 
names from the old record.  Instead of performed paragraphs of moves for each 
various record, my pretty simple logic just had something like "If recort-type 
= "104" then move corresponding old-record-104 to new-record-104.

Len Rugen

University of Missouri
Division of Information Technology
Systems & Operations - Metrics & Automation Team



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Steve Thompson 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COBOL in demand?

Some years ago I was trying to get a system migrated to z/OS 1.4. I ran into a 
problem and my cohort told me I could write the diagnostic code in COBOL faster 
than I could do it in ALC. He was quite right. I knew enough about how the 
COBOL system behaved, that I could read the various outputs with COBOL and 
generate the JCL and Commands to fix it.

And, I have processed SMF records with COBOL as well. It is sometimes a pain to 
do (especially with VS/COBOL).

Now the particulars, or details, are a bit hazy now, since the 1.4 fiasco was 
about 2005.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 6, 2016, at 9:16 PM, Clark Morris  wrote:
>
> [Default] On 6 Dec 2016 13:44:13 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> ste...@copper.net (Steve Thompson) wrote:
>
>> Where I work we do a lot of COBOL.
>>
>> In fact, l use it as a tool to generate JOBs (JCL). I've even used it to 
>> help diagnose system problems.
>
> Could you elaborate on how you use COBOL for system problem diagnosis.
> A retired COBOL programmer who used COBOL as the primary language in a
> file and program usage system that included parsing SMF 30 records
> wants to know.
>
> Clark Morris
>>
>> People who know COBOL can do amazing things with it.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2016, at 4:27 PM, Barkow, Eileen  wrote:
>>>
>>> This is from a LYNDA.COM COBOL course (using the free GNU COOBL on WINDOWS 
>>> under CYGWIN).
>>> I thought that some people might be interested in the big bucks being 
>>> offered to COBOL programmers.
>>> That is certainly news to me.  And there was even a reference to the old 
>>> days when the code had to be punched into cards.
>>>
>>> "
>>> COBOL is an endangered language. But it once ran 80% of the world's 
>>> business systems: thousands of mission-critical applications that still 
>>> exist today. Some companies want to upgrade and transition their COBOL 
>>> applications to more modern frameworks; others want to stick with COBOL's 
>>> relatively stable platform. In either case, hiring managers are willing to 
>>> pay a premium for candidates who know how to take on COBOL's challenges. 
>>> For this reason, programmers are learning COBOL again.
>>> "
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
>>> otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
>>> received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to 
>>> send it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or 
>>> its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and 
>>> delete the e-mail from your system.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
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Re: COBOL in demand?

[Steve Thompson]

Some years ago I was trying to get a system migrated to z/OS 1.4. I ran into a 
problem and my cohort told me I could write the diagnostic code in COBOL faster 
than I could do it in ALC. He was quite right. I knew enough about how the 
COBOL system behaved, that I could read the various outputs with COBOL and 
generate the JCL and Commands to fix it. 

And, I have processed SMF records with COBOL as well. It is sometimes a pain to 
do (especially with VS/COBOL). 

Now the particulars, or details, are a bit hazy now, since the 1.4 fiasco was 
about 2005. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 6, 2016, at 9:16 PM, Clark Morris  wrote:
> 
> [Default] On 6 Dec 2016 13:44:13 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> ste...@copper.net (Steve Thompson) wrote:
> 
>> Where I work we do a lot of COBOL. 
>> 
>> In fact, l use it as a tool to generate JOBs (JCL). I've even used it to 
>> help diagnose system problems. 
> 
> Could you elaborate on how you use COBOL for system problem diagnosis.
> A retired COBOL programmer who used COBOL as the primary language in a
> file and program usage system that included parsing SMF 30 records
> wants to know.
> 
> Clark Morris
>> 
>> People who know COBOL can do amazing things with it. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 6, 2016, at 4:27 PM, Barkow, Eileen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is from a LYNDA.COM COBOL course (using the free GNU COOBL on WINDOWS 
>>> under CYGWIN).
>>> I thought that some people might be interested in the big bucks being 
>>> offered to COBOL programmers.
>>> That is certainly news to me.  And there was even a reference to the old 
>>> days when the code had to be punched into cards.
>>> 
>>> "
>>> COBOL is an endangered language. But it once ran 80% of the world's 
>>> business systems: thousands of mission-critical applications that still 
>>> exist today. Some companies want to upgrade and transition their COBOL 
>>> applications to more modern frameworks; others want to stick with COBOL's 
>>> relatively stable platform. In either case, hiring managers are willing to 
>>> pay a premium for candidates who know how to take on COBOL's challenges. 
>>> For this reason, programmers are learning COBOL again.
>>> "
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
>>> otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
>>> received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to 
>>> send it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or 
>>> its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and 
>>> delete the e-mail from your system.
>>> 
>>> --
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Re: COBOL in demand?

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On 6 Dec 2016 13:44:13 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
ste...@copper.net (Steve Thompson) wrote:

>Where I work we do a lot of COBOL. 
>
>In fact, l use it as a tool to generate JOBs (JCL). I've even used it to help 
>diagnose system problems. 

Could you elaborate on how you use COBOL for system problem diagnosis.
A retired COBOL programmer who used COBOL as the primary language in a
file and program usage system that included parsing SMF 30 records
wants to know.

Clark Morris
>
>People who know COBOL can do amazing things with it. 
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 6, 2016, at 4:27 PM, Barkow, Eileen  wrote:
>> 
>> This is from a LYNDA.COM COBOL course (using the free GNU COOBL on WINDOWS 
>> under CYGWIN).
>> I thought that some people might be interested in the big bucks being 
>> offered to COBOL programmers.
>> That is certainly news to me.  And there was even a reference to the old 
>> days when the code had to be punched into cards.
>> 
>> "
>> COBOL is an endangered language. But it once ran 80% of the world's business 
>> systems: thousands of mission-critical applications that still exist today. 
>> Some companies want to upgrade and transition their COBOL applications to 
>> more modern frameworks; others want to stick with COBOL's relatively stable 
>> platform. In either case, hiring managers are willing to pay a premium for 
>> candidates who know how to take on COBOL's challenges. For this reason, 
>> programmers are learning COBOL again.
>> "
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
>> otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
>> received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send 
>> it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its 
>> attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete 
>> the e-mail from your system.
>> 
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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 18:27:58 -0600, Kirk Wolf wrote:

>There are two SPFEDIT enqs required to follow the protocol.   The data set
>one (without member) is used to serialize during actual I/O.You aren't
>seeing that while transferring with FTP, which is why I believe that the
>actual I/O is being deferred.
>
From Cygwin, I started two FTP sessions; PUT to same PDS; different
members.  They ran concurrently.  Can't write concurrently to two
PDS members (could with PDSE).  So it must buffer.  Wonder what happens
when both buffers overflow.

Hmmm.  Of course, SDSF DA shows a job for each FTP session.

(This belongs on TCPIP-L.)

-- gil

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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Graham Harris]

Might employing the GRS enqueue monitor help understand what is going on
behind the scenes, and in what order?

On 7 December 2016 at 00:27, Kirk Wolf  wrote:

> There are two SPFEDIT enqs required to follow the protocol.   The data set
> one (without member) is used to serialize during actual I/O.You aren't
> seeing that while transferring with FTP, which is why I believe that the
> actual I/O is being deferred.
>
> Kirk Wolf
> Dovetailed Technologies
> http://dovetail.com
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Paul Gilmartin <
> 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 17:11:37 -0600, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
> > >
> > >What you are seeing leads me to believe that the data set I/O is *not*
> > >occurring while it is being transferred.   Otherwise, you should also
> see
> > >an ENQ on SPFEDIT/DSN  (no member), right?
> > >
> > Can't tell.  While creating a member with Edit and another with FTP,
> > I see a red SPFEDIT enq on each member and a green SYSDSN DSN.
> >
> > Can't probe with LMPUT because it requires EXC.  I don't care to
> > write an Assembler program.  Even if I could.
> >
> > (This red-green stuff has got to be a 508 violation.)
> >
> > -- gil
> >
> > --
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>
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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 17:11:37 -0600, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
>
>What you are seeing leads me to believe that the data set I/O is *not*
>occurring while it is being transferred.   Otherwise, you should also see
>an ENQ on SPFEDIT/DSN  (no member), right?
>
In:
z/OS 2.1.0
ISPF
z/OS ISPF Planning and Customizing
ISPF enqueue processing for data integrity
ISPF data set integrity enqueue
z/OS ISPF Planning and Customizing
GC19-3623-00

I see:
To allow you to update a data set on DASD (EDIT's SAVE, PDF option
3 COPY/MOVE/DELETE/RENAME, TBSAVE, and so on), ISPF issues this
macro to protect the entire partitioned data set:

 RESERVE SPFEDIT,dsname,E,44,SYSTEMS

I believe this is momentary; too ephemeral to observe.

-- gil

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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Kirk Wolf]

There are two SPFEDIT enqs required to follow the protocol.   The data set
one (without member) is used to serialize during actual I/O.You aren't
seeing that while transferring with FTP, which is why I believe that the
actual I/O is being deferred.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 17:11:37 -0600, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
> >
> >What you are seeing leads me to believe that the data set I/O is *not*
> >occurring while it is being transferred.   Otherwise, you should also see
> >an ENQ on SPFEDIT/DSN  (no member), right?
> >
> Can't tell.  While creating a member with Edit and another with FTP,
> I see a red SPFEDIT enq on each member and a green SYSDSN DSN.
>
> Can't probe with LMPUT because it requires EXC.  I don't care to
> write an Assembler program.  Even if I could.
>
> (This red-green stuff has got to be a 508 violation.)
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 17:11:37 -0600, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
>
>What you are seeing leads me to believe that the data set I/O is *not*
>occurring while it is being transferred.   Otherwise, you should also see
>an ENQ on SPFEDIT/DSN  (no member), right?
>
Can't tell.  While creating a member with Edit and another with FTP,
I see a red SPFEDIT enq on each member and a green SYSDSN DSN.

Can't probe with LMPUT because it requires EXC.  I don't care to
write an Assembler program.  Even if I could.

(This red-green stuff has got to be a 508 violation.)

-- gil

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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Kirk Wolf]

Thanks Gil,

What you are seeing leads me to believe that the data set I/O is *not*
occurring while it is being transferred.   Otherwise, you should also see
an ENQ on SPFEDIT/DSN  (no member), right?



Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 16:46:04 -0600, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:
> >On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:15:54 -0600, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
> >
> >>As many are aware, z/OS Comm Svr FTP uses DISP=SHR + ISPF compatible ENQs
> >>when writing PDS members.
> >>
> >Anyone for an RFE for /bin/cp  to do likewise?
> >...
> >LM services LMPUT requires an exclusive ENQ on DSN.  LM, like BPAM,
> >may not know the member name until STOW.
> >
> >>What would happen if the FTP transfer started, this data set ENQ was
> >>obtained, and then the transfer hung for some period of time?Wouldn't
> >>that be bad?   Or, perhaps FTP buffers the data for a PDS member write in
> >>memory until it has the complete member before doing I/O?
> >>
> >Solaris FTP allows a pipe as input, so one of us could try throttling FTP
> PUT.
> >
> Done.  While the transfer is in progress, DDLIST shows me:
> a red   ENQ on SPFEDIT DSN MEMBER
> a green ENQ on SYSDSN  DSN
>
> I believe directory integrity is protected by a totally separate ENQ.
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 16:46:04 -0600, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:
>On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:15:54 -0600, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
>
>>As many are aware, z/OS Comm Svr FTP uses DISP=SHR + ISPF compatible ENQs
>>when writing PDS members.
>>
>Anyone for an RFE for /bin/cp  to do likewise?
>...
>LM services LMPUT requires an exclusive ENQ on DSN.  LM, like BPAM,
>may not know the member name until STOW.
>
>>What would happen if the FTP transfer started, this data set ENQ was
>>obtained, and then the transfer hung for some period of time?Wouldn't
>>that be bad?   Or, perhaps FTP buffers the data for a PDS member write in
>>memory until it has the complete member before doing I/O?
>>
>Solaris FTP allows a pipe as input, so one of us could try throttling FTP PUT.
>
Done.  While the transfer is in progress, DDLIST shows me:
a red   ENQ on SPFEDIT DSN MEMBER
a green ENQ on SYSDSN  DSN

I believe directory integrity is protected by a totally separate ENQ.

-- gil

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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:15:54 -0600, Kirk Wolf  wrote:

>As many are aware, z/OS Comm Svr FTP uses DISP=SHR + ISPF compatible ENQs
>when writing PDS members.
>
(Curiously, last I looked, the ISPF doc is in the install/config guide.)
NFS does likewise.  And NFS (I'm guessing FTP) creates ISPF compatible directory
user info.

Anyone for an RFE for /bin/cp  to do likewise?

>See for example this message for evidence:
>===
>EZA2563W
>Data set dsname used exclusively by someone else.
>Explanation:
>
>A data transfer (get, put or append) of a partitioned data set (PDS) was
>requested and the member requested is currently in use.
>
>I am curious about how this actually works, specifically how/when FTP holds
>the exclusive *data set* ENQ  (QNAME=SPFEDIT,RNAME=DSN).This would be
>the (hopefully short) ENQ that is held while actually doing I/O to the data
>set.
>
I believe that for the duration of the edit, ISPF holds an exclusive ENQ
incorporating the member name.

LM services LMPUT requires an exclusive ENQ on DSN.  LM, like BPAM,
may not know the member name until STOW.

>What would happen if the FTP transfer started, this data set ENQ was
>obtained, and then the transfer hung for some period of time?Wouldn't
>that be bad?   Or, perhaps FTP buffers the data for a PDS member write in
>memory until it has the complete member before doing I/O?
>
Have you stress-tested it?  Think of storage exhaustion.  Think of a
temporary data set.

The rules for PDSE are much more lenient: multiple members may be
written concurrently.  Separate DCBs in the same job.  I've tested with
LM services.  Can't use different jobs because of the ENQ EXC constraint
menioned above.  *But* that may be just an LM restriction only to
protect against member name conflict since the member name may be
unknown until STOW.

Solaris FTP allows a pipe as input, so one of us could try throttling FTP
PUT.

I'll try to attach my PDSE test EXEC.

-- gil


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/* Rexx */ signal on novalue;  /*
   Doc: ISPF LM concurrent update to PDSE members?
*/
trace Err
address 'ISREDIT' 'macro (Arg)'

parse value  1 5 userid()'.TEMP.PDS'  with MaxM MaxL DSN
parse value  5 5 userid()'.TEMP.PDSE' with MaxM MaxL DSN
RC = BPXWDYN( 'alloc rtddn(Dir) new catalog dsntype(LIBRARY) dsorg(PO) 
recfm(v,b) lrecl(222) dsn('DSN') msg(WTP)' )
say RC Dir DSN 'New'
RC = BPXWDYN( 'alloc rtddn(Dir) old dsn('DSN') msg(WTP)' )
say RC Dir DSN 'Old'
trace Err

address 'ISPEXEC'
do M = 1 to MaxM
'LMINIT DATAID(ID'M') DDNAME('Dir')'
if RC<>0 then return( Report() )
'LMOPEN DATAID('value( 'ID'M )') OPTION(OUTPUT)'
end M

do L = 1 to MaxL
do MM = 1 to MaxM
M = ( MM + L ) // MaxM + 1
S = 'Record' L ' Member MEM'M MM right( time( 'L' ), 43 )
if 0 then parse value 'MULTX' d2c( length( S ), 2 )S ,
  with Mode S
   else Mode = 'INVAR'
'LMPUT DATAID('value('ID'M)') MODE('Mode') DATALOC(S)' ,
'DATALEN('length(S)') NOBSCAN'
 if L==MaxL then do
C = 'LMMREP DATAID('value( 'ID'M )') MEMBER(MEM'M')'
C;  say RC C
'LMFREE DATAID('value( 'ID'M )')';  end
end MM
end L

return( BPXWDYN( 'free  dd('''Dir''') msg(WTP)' ) )

Report:
say RC value( 'ZERRMSG' )
say value( 'ZERRSM' )
say value( 'ZERRLM' )
return( RC )



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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

allan.stal...@hcl.com (Allan Staller) writes:
> Big Iron is too expensive. Get Off!
> Migrate to VAX (many).
> Oops! Too many VAX's. Get Off
> Migrate to Amdahl!  (Big Iron).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016h.html#47 Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe 
Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

note that IBM 4300s in single & small unit orders sold about the same
as VAX  old post with decade of VAX sales, sliced & diced by
model, year, US/non-us
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0

the big difference was large corporations with orders of hundreds of
4300s at a time for placing out in departmental areas (leading edge of
the distributed computing tsunami). the 4361/4381 followon were expected
to continue the explosion in mid-range sales ... but as can be seen by
the vax numbers ... by that time, the mid-range market was moving to
workstations and large PCs.

note that cluster of 4341s also had higher throughput, more processing
power, more i/o, smaller space and environmental footprint than 3033 at
less cost. POK felt the threat to 3033, that at one point the head of
POK got the allocation of critical 4341 manufacturing componenent cut in
half.

in 1979, I got con'ed into doing 4341 benchmarks (before 4341s shipped
to customers) for national lab that was looking at getting 70 4341s for
compute farm (leading edge of current cluster supercomputing, grid
computing, and cloud megadatacenters).

other trivia ... ACS getting canceled because IBM executives were afraid
that it would advance the state of art too fast and they might loose
control of the market ... Amdahl leaves shortly afterwards to start
his own computer company.
https://people.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/acs_end.html

at the bottom of above ... it shows ACS features that show up more
than 20 yrs later in ES/9000.

even more trivia ... in the early/mid 70s ... the company started the
Future System effort which was completely different than 360/370 and was
going to replace 360/370. During the FS period, 370 efforts were being
killed off. The lack of 370 offerings during the FS period is credited
with giving clone processor makers a market foothold. When FS was
finally killed (long delayed because top executives stiffled any
criticsm), there was mad rush to get stuff back into product pipelines.
303x & 3081 Q efforts kicked off at the same time. 3031 was repackaged
158-3, 3032 was repackaged 168-3, 3033 started out 168-3 logic mapped to
20% faster chips. 3081 was some warmed over FS technology ... much
more longer winded analysis:
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm
some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

I continued to work on 360/370 all during the FS period ... periodically
ridiculing FS ... including drawing comparisions with long-running cult
film down in central sq. ... which wasn't exactly career enhancing
activity.

late 80s, a senior disk engineer got a talk scheduled at world-wide,
annual, internal communication group conference, supposedly on 3174
performance but opened the talk with the satement that the communication
group was going to be responsible for the demise of the disk division.
The issue was that the communication group had strategic ownership of
everything that crossed the datacenter walls and were fiercely fighting
off distributed computing and client/server trying to preserve their
(emulated) dumb terminal paradigm and install base. The disk division
was seeing data fleeing the datacenter to more distributed computing
friendly platforms with drop in disk sales. The disk division had some
up with a number of solutions that were constantly being veoted by the
communication group.

a few short years later, the company had gone into the red and was being
reorganized in preparation for breaking up into the 13 "baby blues"

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Re: USS PFS Interface - 136 byte save area?

[Tom Marchant]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 16:26:24 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:

>However, it's really very simple to add a stack-overflow check to entry
>logic

Yes, if you have the address of the end of the "stack". AFAICT, there 
is no place to store that information for each routine to check it.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: LOOKAT gone? - Doc Buddy? Seriously?

[Dave Juraschek]

I agree.

Apparently UX/UI is big stuff now.  

Still IBM, the once biggest computing company, doesn't see this stuff as 
relevant or important.   

IBM is still green screen, block thought, SNA exclusive oriented.

My son is now getting his Masters in UX/UI  (User Experience/User Interface).

Why isn't IBM snatching these kids up?

They are all going to companies who design web thingies and web services.  The 
current erotica.

I am so disappointed.

I wish my son could have had a future in an IBM system.  (A Tim Allen "Ruhr" 
system.)

Probably not.  

Linux/Oracle/MS is the future of computing.

IBM has abandoned anything else.

So sad.

-Dave

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Re: COBOL in demand?

[Steve Thompson]

Where I work we do a lot of COBOL. 

In fact, l use it as a tool to generate JOBs (JCL). I've even used it to help 
diagnose system problems. 

People who know COBOL can do amazing things with it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 6, 2016, at 4:27 PM, Barkow, Eileen  wrote:
> 
> This is from a LYNDA.COM COBOL course (using the free GNU COOBL on WINDOWS 
> under CYGWIN).
> I thought that some people might be interested in the big bucks being offered 
> to COBOL programmers.
> That is certainly news to me.  And there was even a reference to the old days 
> when the code had to be punched into cards.
> 
> "
> COBOL is an endangered language. But it once ran 80% of the world's business 
> systems: thousands of mission-critical applications that still exist today. 
> Some companies want to upgrade and transition their COBOL applications to 
> more modern frameworks; others want to stick with COBOL's relatively stable 
> platform. In either case, hiring managers are willing to pay a premium for 
> candidates who know how to take on COBOL's challenges. For this reason, 
> programmers are learning COBOL again.
> "
> 
> 
> 
> This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
> otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
> received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send 
> it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its 
> attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete 
> the e-mail from your system.
> 
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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

cpvitu...@arkbluecross.com (Vitullo, Carmen P) writes:
> I found this out some time ago working for Boeing, even though we were
> one company, we still had to submit a budget each year for computing
> services, this drove Boeing Helicopters to look at alternatives,
> mostly the costs of CATIA and CADAM, on Big Iron, distributed was
> initially cheaper, but in the long run many cost overruns due to poor
> planning and a desire to 'just get off the mainframe at any cost',
> that's what drove us to look at consolidation afterwards, then
> migrations to / from other platformsif it made sense :)

60s we started doing lots of stuff to leave system up 7x24 for online
access. Part of the issue was that (especially initially), offshift
online access was very light so there was little useage ... but in order
to encourage offshit useage, the systems had to be available
7x24. Because of light useage there would be little recovery charges
... so lots of things were done to minimize offshift expenses. This was
in the days when mainframes were leased and charges were based on system
meter that ran whenever the processor and/or any channel was busy
... also everything had to be idle for at least 400milliseonds before it
the system meter would stop (triva: long after mainframes had switched
from leases to sales, MVS still had a time ever that went off every
400ms, making sure system meter would never stop). In any case, came up
with special channel programs for terminal I/O ... that would let the
channel "go idle" ... but would immediately startup when there was any
characters. Also lots of support for "dark room" ... not requiring
offshift operators.

For big cloud megadatacenters, the price of systems has so dramatically
dropped that they have hundreds of thousands of "blades" (each blade
with more processing power than max. configured mainframe) supported by
staff of 80-120 people per megadatacenter. Also with the dramatic cut in
system cost, the major expense has increasingly become power &
cooling. The big cloud datacenters have been on the leading edge of
systems where power drop to near zero when idle ... but are
effectively instant on for ondemand computing.

while an undergraduate in the 60s, I was hired as fulltime boeing
employee to help with the formation of boeing computer services ...
consolidate all computing into independent business unit as part of
better monetizing the investment (which would also have the freedom to
sell computing services to non-boeing entities, a precursor to cloud
computing).  at the time, I thought renton data center was possibly the
largest in the world with something like $200M-$300m (60s dollars) in
ibm mainframe gear (for a period, there were 360/65s arriving faster
than they could be installed, boxes were constantly being staged in the
hallways outside the datacenter).

there was disaster scenario where mt rainier warms up and the resulting
mudslide takes out the renton datacenter. the analysis was that the cost
of being w/o the renton datacenter for a week was more than the cost of
the renton datacenter ... so there was a effort underway to repicate the
renton datacenter up at the new 747 plant in everett.

in any case, the politics with the different plant managers tended to
dwarf any technical issues.

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Re: COBOL in demand?

[Jack J. Woehr]

Barkow, Eileen wrote:

  I thought that some people might be interested in the big bucks being offered 
to COBOL programmers.


You'd be surprised how much COBOL needs maintenance on IBM i (OS400).

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Charles Mills]

I notice the following scenario. Not sure if this is relevant to your question.

- I use a graphical client for Windows to z/OS FTP (Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro, FWIW)
- If it has more than one member (to one PDS/E) to transfer it will start about 
three or so transfers in parallel
- I *sometimes* -- have not bothered to nail it down -- have one or two of the 
transfers fail on "access prohibited" or some such. I retry and it succeeds. 
There is no one else accessing the PDS/E, so I think it is some sort of ENQ 
"misunderstanding." My mental image is that one transfer obtains an ENQ on the 
entire PDS, and then another fails at obtaining that ENQ, but I don't know.
- FWIW, I also transfer multiple files the same way to a USS path, a lot more 
often than to a PDS/E. It never fails in this way.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Kirk Wolf
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 1:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

As many are aware, z/OS Comm Svr FTP uses DISP=SHR + ISPF compatible ENQs when 
writing PDS members.

See for example this message for evidence:
===
EZA2563W
Data set dsname used exclusively by someone else.
Explanation:

A data transfer (get, put or append) of a partitioned data set (PDS) was 
requested and the member requested is currently in use.

I am curious about how this actually works, specifically how/when FTP holds
the exclusive *data set* ENQ  (QNAME=SPFEDIT,RNAME=DSN).This would be
the (hopefully short) ENQ that is held while actually doing I/O to the data set.

What would happen if the FTP transfer started, this data set ENQ was
obtained, and then the transfer hung for some period of time?Wouldn't
that be bad?   Or, perhaps FTP buffers the data for a PDS member write in
memory until it has the complete member before doing I/O?

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COBOL in demand?

[Barkow, Eileen]

This is from a LYNDA.COM COBOL course (using the free GNU COOBL on WINDOWS 
under CYGWIN).
 I thought that some people might be interested in the big bucks being offered 
to COBOL programmers.
That is certainly news to me.  And there was even a reference to the old days 
when the code had to be punched into cards.

"
COBOL is an endangered language. But it once ran 80% of the world's business 
systems: thousands of mission-critical applications that still exist today. 
Some companies want to upgrade and transition their COBOL applications to more 
modern frameworks; others want to stick with COBOL's relatively stable 
platform. In either case, hiring managers are willing to pay a premium for 
candidates who know how to take on COBOL's challenges. For this reason, 
programmers are learning COBOL again.
"



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Re: USS PFS Interface - 136 byte save area?

[Steve Smith]

DXDs, aka pseudo-registers are lately somewhat generalized into "no-load"
binder classes.  C and other HLLs use them, but not for DSA/stack that I
know of.

I think the Metal C convention of pre-setting the savearea forward pointer
is pretty clever.  It doesn't interfere with any traditional save area
linkage, and is mighty efficient.

ALL HLLs use a stack.  LE handles stack overflow.  With Metal C, you place
your bet, test, and hope you've got it covered.  If your program is complex
enough to cause you doubt, maybe you should use LE.

However, it's really very simple to add a stack-overflow check to entry
logic, and I think IBM will have to do that someday for Metal C.  Abends
are infinitely better than memory corruption.

sas

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Tony Harminc  wrote:

> On 6 December 2016 at 10:39, Tom Marchant <
> 000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 09:20:33 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
> >
> > >Metal C linkage requires your own forward chain to be preset to the NAB.
> > I
> > >think LE C just uses the NAB.  Regardless, that shouldn't cause a
> problem
> > >either.
> >
> > I never heard of such a thing, so I looked it up.
> >
> > It is a rather bizarre requirement that seems to me to contradict the
> > standard linkage conventions that it claims to follow.
> >
> > It means that a program must know not only its own storage
> > requirements, but the storage requirements of every program that it
> > calls, and every program that they call, etc.
> >
> > There is no mechanism to verify that the allocated storage hasn't been
> > exceeded, or to ensure that the storage that is obtained is adequate.
> >
>
> Well, there is... The traditional approach to this is to use DXD and CXD to
> have the Binder add up all the requirements at link time. This scheme is
> sometimes known as "Pseudo registers", and is (was?) used by PL/I. It works
> well; the only real downside is that it doesn't account for recursive
> calls, whether direct or indirect.
>
> Tony H.
>
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>



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FTP serialization when writing PDS/PDSE members

[Kirk Wolf]

As many are aware, z/OS Comm Svr FTP uses DISP=SHR + ISPF compatible ENQs
when writing PDS members.

See for example this message for evidence:
===
EZA2563W
Data set dsname used exclusively by someone else.
Explanation:

A data transfer (get, put or append) of a partitioned data set (PDS) was
requested and the member requested is currently in use.

I am curious about how this actually works, specifically how/when FTP holds
the exclusive *data set* ENQ  (QNAME=SPFEDIT,RNAME=DSN).This would be
the (hopefully short) ENQ that is held while actually doing I/O to the data
set.

What would happen if the FTP transfer started, this data set ENQ was
obtained, and then the transfer hung for some period of time?Wouldn't
that be bad?   Or, perhaps FTP buffers the data for a PDS member write in
memory until it has the complete member before doing I/O?

Thanks,

Kirk Wolf
http://dovetail.com

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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Carmen Vitullo]

something like that, at least in the Philly site we were Big Iron, and VAX/VMS 
and some off the wall Cray (like) servers, STS systems, the big push was to 
RS/6000 running at the time AIX 4.3, because the new director didn't want the 
cost of upgrading the CATIA mainframe. 
by the time distributed CATIA was production at this location, it was time for 
a hardware refresh followed by a software refresh for thousands of RS/6000's - 
like painting the Golden Gate bridge, once complete, time to start over again. 
staffing that enterprise was a nightmare 
now with the advent of virtualization in the open systems world this made life 
somewhat easier - so I'm told. 


- Original Message -

From: "Allan Staller"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 2:17:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services? 

The way I heard the story: 

Big Iron is too expensive. Get Off! 
Migrate to VAX (many). 
Oops! Too many VAX's. Get Off 
Migrate to Amdahl! (Big Iron). 

 
I found this out some time ago working for Boeing, even though we were one 
company, we still had to submit a budget each year for computing services, this 
drove Boeing Helicopters to look at alternatives, mostly the costs of CATIA and 
CADAM, on Big Iron, distributed was initially cheaper, but in the long run many 
cost overruns due to poor planning and a desire to 'just get off the mainframe 
at any cost', that's what drove us to look at consolidation afterwards, then 
migrations to / from other platformsif it made sense :) 
 



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Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the 
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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Allan Staller]

The way I heard the story:

Big Iron is too expensive. Get Off!
Migrate to VAX (many).
Oops! Too many VAX's. Get Off
Migrate to Amdahl!  (Big Iron).


I found this out some time ago working for Boeing, even though we were one 
company, we still had to submit a budget each year for computing services, this 
drove Boeing Helicopters to look at alternatives, mostly the costs of CATIA and 
CADAM, on Big Iron, distributed was initially cheaper, but in the long run many 
cost overruns due to poor planning and a desire to 'just get off the mainframe 
at any cost', that's what drove us to look at consolidation afterwards, then 
migrations to / from other platformsif it made sense :)




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(with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on 
the originator or HCL or its affiliates.
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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Not long ago, a major part of the mainframe ecosystem was raised floor and 
before that cooling water. We now run z12EC in a data center newly built for 
distributed, i.e. slab floor, no water, and even no traditional (compressor) 
air conditioning. All cabling is run above, which in itself is not trivial but 
at least requires nothing special for mainframe. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon 
Cloud Services?


If you look at the sheer cost if setting up a zOS ecosystem, its not cheap.  
Where customers would balk it that it would be a "SHARED" ecosystem that they 
have little say so over.  Its called SHARED Services. When I was with IBM, they 
charged about $80/CPUHR, however IBM gave the customers Capacity on Demand.  
Add an engine and you added another 5.4Ghz processor and off you go   
 
 
Steve Beaver
st...@stevebeaver.com



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this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we 
may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message 
(including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you


-Original Message-
From: "Charles Mills" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 1:32pm
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?



I thought his point was interesting. Obviously, I sing in the mainframe choir, 
but I could not have put my finger on the specific issue of how economy of 
scale works for the different platforms.

Apologies for the folded link. I assume everyone knows how to deal.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:
> http://enterprisesystemsmedia.com/article/why-cant-you-buy-ibmz-mainfr
> ame-se
> rvices-from-aws
>
> Charles
>

Nice article. Preaching to the choir. Too little, too late for this place (most 
likely).


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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Vitullo, Carmen P]

I found this out some time ago working for Boeing, even though we were one 
company, we still had to submit a budget each year for computing services, this 
drove Boeing Helicopters to look at alternatives, mostly the costs of CATIA and 
CADAM, on Big Iron, distributed was initially cheaper, but in the long run many 
cost overruns due to poor planning and a desire to 'just get off the mainframe 
at any cost', that's what drove us to look at consolidation afterwards, then 
migrations to / from other platformsif it made sense :)



Carmen Vitullo
Lead Systems Programmer

Arkansas Blue Cross and Blue Shield
IT Infrastructure Services
515 West Pershing Blvd.
North Little Rock, Arkansas 72114
Office: 501.210.4705  
Cell: 501.514.4266
cpvitu...@arkbluecross.com
arkansasbluecross.com 




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 12:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?


If you look at the sheer cost if setting up a zOS ecosystem, its not cheap.  
Where customers would balk it that it would be a "SHARED" ecosystem that they 
have little say so over.  Its called SHARED Services. When I was with IBM, they 
charged about $80/CPUHR, however IBM gave the customers Capacity on Demand.  
Add an engine and you added another 5.4Ghz processor and off you go   
 
 
Steve Beaver
st...@stevebeaver.com



This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that 
is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to 
anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this 
electronic email or its contents (including any attachments) by persons other 
than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received 
this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we 
may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message 
(including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you


-Original Message-
From: "Charles Mills" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 1:32pm
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?



I thought his point was interesting. Obviously, I sing in the mainframe choir, 
but I could not have put my finger on the specific issue of how economy of 
scale works for the different platforms.

Apologies for the folded link. I assume everyone knows how to deal.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:
> http://enterprisesystemsmedia.com/article/why-cant-you-buy-ibmz-mainfr
> ame-se
> rvices-from-aws
>
> Charles
>

Nice article. Preaching to the choir. Too little, too late for this place (most 
likely).

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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Steve]

If you look at the sheer cost if setting up a zOS ecosystem, its not cheap.  
Where customers would balk it that it would be a "SHARED" ecosystem that they 
have little say so over.  Its called SHARED Services. When I was with IBM, they 
charged about $80/CPUHR, however IBM gave the customers Capacity on Demand.  
Add an engine and you added another 5.4Ghz processor and off you go   
 
 
Steve Beaver
st...@stevebeaver.com



This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that 
is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to 
anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this 
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this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we 
may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message 
(including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you


-Original Message-
From: "Charles Mills" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 1:32pm
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?



I thought his point was interesting. Obviously, I sing in the mainframe choir, 
but I could not have put my finger on the specific issue of how economy of 
scale works for the different platforms.

Apologies for the folded link. I assume everyone knows how to deal.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:
> http://enterprisesystemsmedia.com/article/why-cant-you-buy-ibmz-mainfr
> ame-se
> rvices-from-aws
>
> Charles
>

Nice article. Preaching to the choir. Too little, too late for this place (most 
likely).

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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[Charles Mills]

I thought his point was interesting. Obviously, I sing in the mainframe choir, 
but I could not have put my finger on the specific issue of how economy of 
scale works for the different platforms.

Apologies for the folded link. I assume everyone knows how to deal.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:
> http://enterprisesystemsmedia.com/article/why-cant-you-buy-ibmz-mainfr
> ame-se
> rvices-from-aws
>
> Charles
>

Nice article. Preaching to the choir. Too little, too late for this place (most 
likely).

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zOSMF and CMF?

[Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA)]

Does anyone know if CMF can interface with the zOSMF Performance modules in 
place of RMF?

I've not found anything in the CMF pubs (so far)

--
Lionel B. Dyck
Mainframe Systems Programmer - TRA
Enterprise Operations (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10)
Information and Technology, IT Operations and Services


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Re: Why Can't You Buy z Mainframe Services from Amazon Cloud Services?

[John McKown]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:
> http://enterprisesystemsmedia.com/article/why-cant-you-buy-ibmz-mainframe-se
> rvices-from-aws
>
> Charles
>

Nice article. Preaching to the choir. Too little, too late for this
place (most likely).


-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Allan Staller]

This whole conversation about the merits/drawbacks of DocBuddy reminds me om my 
mantra for the last 5 years.

In "modernizing" their support tools. IBM is providing replacements that are 
neither as available, as functional, or as reliable as the items being replaced.



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the originator or HCL or its affiliates.
Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the 
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Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2

[Carmen Vitullo]

got ya, I will review thanks Tom 
Carmen 





- Original Message -

From: "Tom Marchant" <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 10:14:45 AM 
Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 10:54:23 -0500, Carmen Vitullo wrote: 

>S JES2,PARM='WARM,NOREQ' 
>this will be my plan for the next downtime; 

Make sure that all of the parameters that you are changing from 
the way it is running now are parameters that can be changed on 
a warm start. Many (most?) JES2 parameters cannot. 

-- 
Tom Marchant 

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Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2

[Tom Marchant]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 10:54:23 -0500, Carmen Vitullo wrote:

>S JES2,PARM='WARM,NOREQ'
>this will be my plan for the next downtime;

Make sure that all of the parameters that you are changing from 
the way it is running now are parameters that can be changed on 
a warm start. Many (most?) JES2 parameters cannot.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: USS PFS Interface - 136 byte save area?

[Tony Harminc]

On 6 December 2016 at 10:39, Tom Marchant <
000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 09:20:33 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> >Metal C linkage requires your own forward chain to be preset to the NAB.
> I
> >think LE C just uses the NAB.  Regardless, that shouldn't cause a problem
> >either.
>
> I never heard of such a thing, so I looked it up.
>
> It is a rather bizarre requirement that seems to me to contradict the
> standard linkage conventions that it claims to follow.
>
> It means that a program must know not only its own storage
> requirements, but the storage requirements of every program that it
> calls, and every program that they call, etc.
>
> There is no mechanism to verify that the allocated storage hasn't been
> exceeded, or to ensure that the storage that is obtained is adequate.
>

Well, there is... The traditional approach to this is to use DXD and CXD to
have the Binder add up all the requirements at link time. This scheme is
sometimes known as "Pseudo registers", and is (was?) used by PL/I. It works
well; the only real downside is that it doesn't account for recursive
calls, whether direct or indirect.

Tony H.

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Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2

[Carmen Vitullo]

First thanks for the previous link to z/OS2.2 JES enhancements 
I have access to the master console so, I let automation shutdown everything, a 
$PJES2 is issued via OPS, no need today to issue a $PJES2,TERM or $PJES2,ABEND, 
I really don't like to ABEND JES unless required. 
so starting JES2 prior to an IPL, I start JES2 as you suggested 


S JES2,PARM='WARM,NOREQ' 
this will be my plan for the next downtime; 
once JES2 is down on MEMBER(1) - singe system MAS, I'll reconfigure using my 
process I have outlined, 
once the members are reassigned correctly it is easier for me to IPL member(1) 
'SYSA' with the new PARMS 
then bring member(2) into the MAS 
one other issue I found with my parms on member(2) was I defined both member(1) 
and member(2), according to the good book, there's no need to code member(1) on 
member(2)'s jesparms 
again thanks Lizz! 
Carmen 


- Original Message -

From: "Lizette Koehler"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:44:56 AM 
Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 

And just to make sure I remember correctly. 

The way a warm start works is no work is running in JES2. So nothing up using 
SYSOUT. Then abend JES2 and restart with WARM,NOREQ 

If any work is running with SYSOUT, then I think JES2 changes to a HOT START. 

So, when I have done a warm start, I am at a Master Console (not SDSF) and the 
only tasks running is what comes up in NIP and JES2. No TSO, no VTAM, etc... 

Then I can $PJES2,ABEND 
S JES2,PARM='WARM,NOREQ' 


Just checking 

Lizette 


> -Original Message- 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:17 AM 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 
> 
> I spent the morning reviewing and re-reading the link Lizz provided, this was 
> a great help, I was thinking I could just rename the member to what I wanted 
> and warm start JES2, according to the good doc not so fast 
> 
> 
> 
> Figure 1. Reassigning Member Identifiers to Different Processors 
> MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION */ 
> MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSB 
> 
> . 
> . 
> . 
> 
> 
> Step 1: 
> MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* DEFINE TEMPORARY */ 
> MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSY /* MEMBER IDENTIFIERS */ 
> /* AND THEN WARM START */ 
> . 
> . 
> . 
> 
> 
> Step 2: 
> $PJES2 on all members in MAS. 
> 
> 
> Step 3: 
> Perform an all-member warm start with the above configuration. 
> 
> 
> Step 4: 
> When JES2 starts redefine with the following statements: 
> 
> 
> MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* NEW CONFIGURATION */ 
> MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSC 
> 
> this will be my plan for my next downtime schedule, again thanks ALL for your 
> great insight , thanks Lizz for the push to re read the doc Carmen . 
> . 

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Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2

[Lizette Koehler]

And just to make sure I remember correctly.

The way a warm start works is no work is running in JES2.  So nothing up using 
SYSOUT.  Then abend JES2 and restart with WARM,NOREQ

If any work is running with SYSOUT, then I think JES2 changes to a HOT START.  

So, when I have done a warm start, I am at a Master Console (not SDSF) and the 
only tasks running is what comes up in NIP and JES2.  No TSO, no VTAM, etc...

Then I can $PJES2,ABEND
 S JES2,PARM='WARM,NOREQ'


Just checking

Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:17 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2
> 
> I spent the morning reviewing and re-reading the link Lizz provided, this was
> a great help, I was thinking I could just rename the member to what I wanted
> and warm start JES2, according to the good doc not so fast
> 
> 
> 
> Figure 1. Reassigning Member Identifiers to Different Processors
> MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION */
> MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSB
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> 
> Step 1:
> MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* DEFINE TEMPORARY */
> MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSY /* MEMBER IDENTIFIERS */
> /* AND THEN WARM START */
> .
> .
> .
> 
> 
> Step 2:
> $PJES2 on all members in MAS.
> 
> 
> Step 3:
> Perform an all-member warm start with the above configuration.
> 
> 
> Step 4:
> When JES2 starts redefine with the following statements:
> 
> 
> MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* NEW CONFIGURATION */
> MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSC
> 
> this will be my plan for my next downtime schedule, again thanks ALL for your
> great insight , thanks Lizz for the push to re read the doc Carmen .
> .

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JES2 Changes in z/OS V2.2 - Presentation from 2015

[Lizette Koehler]

 Just in case no one saw this from 2015. I thought I would share this
presentation by IBM

 http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/iea/v2r2/pdf/zOS_V2R2_JES2_Growth_Items.pdf

 IBM Education Assistance for z/OS V2R2
 Items: 
   JES2 Growth: Grow from 400K to 1M Active jobs
   JES2 Growth: Grow checkpoint without cold start
   JES2 Growth: Dynamic Checkpoint tuning
 Element/Component: JES2


Presentation Objectives 

 ■ Support growing the number of jobs and output JES2 can support 
- Includes performance enhancements 
- Improved system management 
- Improved RAS  
 ■ Changes include 
- SYSOUT work selection enhancements 
- Updates for duplicate job processing
- Reworking checkpoint on I/O processing 
 ● Includes using 64 bit storage 
- Simplify managing the JES2 checkpoint data sets 
 ● Size and configuration
- Tuning MASDEF HOLD and DORMANCY automatically 
- Numerous RAS enhancements
   


Lizette Koehler
statistics: A precise and logical method for stating a half-truth inaccurately

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Re: USS PFS Interface - 136 byte save area?

[Tom Marchant]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 09:20:33 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:

>Metal C linkage requires your own forward chain to be preset to the NAB.  I
>think LE C just uses the NAB.  Regardless, that shouldn't cause a problem
>either.

I never heard of such a thing, so I looked it up.

It is a rather bizarre requirement that seems to me to contradict the 
standard linkage conventions that it claims to follow.

It means that a program must know not only its own storage 
requirements, but the storage requirements of every program that it 
calls, and every program that they call, etc.

There is no mechanism to verify that the allocated storage hasn't been 
exceeded, or to ensure that the storage that is obtained is adequate.

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ccrug00/mvslnkcnv.htm

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2

[Bill Woodger]

Unless Sir Nose d'Voidoffunk his wielding his Snooze Gun, you mean defunct, not 
"defunked". Just sayin'.

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Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2

[Carmen Vitullo]

I spent the morning reviewing and re-reading the link Lizz provided, this was a 
great help, I was thinking I could just rename the member to what I wanted and 
warm start JES2, according to the good doc not so fast 



Figure 1. Reassigning Member Identifiers to Different Processors 
MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION */ 
MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSB 

. 
. 
. 


Step 1: 
MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* DEFINE TEMPORARY */ 
MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSY /* MEMBER IDENTIFIERS */ 
/* AND THEN WARM START */ 
. 
. 
. 


Step 2: 
$PJES2 on all members in MAS. 


Step 3: 
Perform an all-member warm start with the above configuration. 


Step 4: 
When JES2 starts redefine with the following statements: 


MEMBER(1) NAME=SYSA /* NEW CONFIGURATION */ 
MEMBER(2) NAME=SYSC 

this will be my plan for my next downtime schedule, again thanks ALL for your 
great insight , thanks Lizz for the push to re read the doc 
Carmen . 
. 
. 
- Original Message -

From: "Lizette Koehler"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:57:45 AM 
Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 

So the commands do the following 

$HQ,ALL Hold all JES2 queues 
$S Start JES2 
,ALL Still hold all queues. 



C=c1[...c36] 
The specified job queue(s) (classes A-Z and 0-9) are held. A maximum of 36 
classes may be specified. 

ALL 
All job queues are held. 



Not sure but it looks like they did not want anything running after System 
IPL'd and JES2 was started. 

How is jes2 started? 
S JES2,PARM='NOREQ' is a typical way to bring up JES2 without responding to the 
WTOR that JES2 could produce to see if you wanted JES2 to start immediately. 

As for security issues. Check out the $TDEBUG command for tracing in JES2 for 
any SAF products or issues. NOTE: Do not leave it on for long - it will flood 
syslog. 

Lizette 


> -Original Message- 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo 
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:42 AM 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 
> 
> we're a TSS show but I think if its security related any tracing I can 
> activate would help, so far the only think I question is at the end of the 
> JES2 PARM DECK my predecessor added a $HQ,ALL $S $HQ,ALL I'm wondering if 
> this 
> stopped my test job from hitting the converter also, we don't have any WLM 
> resources defined, but I question why the RES display in SDSF shows, I know 
> we 
> don't use these resources but could the state of the resource (SYSNAME) in 
> RESET cause jobs not to run? 
> 
> 
> RESPONSE=SYSC 
> IWM038I 10.33.50 WLM DISPLAY 027 
> RESOURCE: SYSA 
> DESCRIPTION: SYSA resource 
> SYSTEM STATE SYSTEM STATE SYSTEM STATE 
> SYSA RESET SYSC RESET SYST RESET 
> 
> 
> thanks for your help Paul 
> Carmen - Original Message - 
> 
> From: "Paul Feller"  
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 10:27:57 AM 
> Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 
> 
> Carmen, sometimes it just helps to see others definitions. This is the 
> definitions we use for a three member MAS. All three members are running z/OS 
> 2.2. All three members share the same startup parms. I would put in the 
> SECURITY=YES just in case there might be a RACF (security) related to the 
> job(s). I'm sure everyone has a little different take on how some the parms 
> should look. 
> 
> 
> MASDEF DORMANCY=(80,500), /* MIN/MAX DORMANCY TIME OC*/ HOLD=40, /* MINIMUM 
> HOLD TIME  OC*/ LOCKOUT=1000, /* LOCK-OUT WARNING TIME  OC*/ 
> OWNMEMB=, /* SMF ID OF THIS SYSTEM  WS*/ SHARED=CHECK, /* CHECK 
> FOR SHARED DASD ---(NEW) OC*/ SYNCTOL=120, /* SYNCH.TOLERANCE (SEC.)  
> OC*/ 
> XCFGRPNM=TS00 /* XCF comm group name OC*/ 
> MEMBER(3) NAME=TS01 /* TS01 member */ 
> MEMBER(4) NAME=TS02 /* TS02 MEMBER */ 
> MEMBER(5) NAME=TS03 /* TS03 member */ 
> /* */ 
> SPOOLDEF BUFSIZE=3992,TGSIZE=36,TGSPACE=(MAX=1856832,WARN=80), 
> TRKCELL=3,TGBPERVL=5,FENCE=NO,LARGEDS=ALLOWED, 
> DSNAME=SYS1.VALD.HASPACE,SPOOLNUM=64,VOLUME=OSSP 
> /* */ 
> CKPTDEF CKPT1=(STR=TS00_JES2CKPT), 
> NEWCKPT1=(DSN=SYS1.TS00.JESCKPTX,VOLSER=OSS007), 
> CKPT2=(DSN=SYS1.TS00.JESCKPT2,VOLSER=OSSCK2,INUSE=YES), 
> NEWCKPT2=(DSN=SYS1.TS00.JESCKPTY,VOLSER=OSS005), 
> MODE=DUPLEX,DUPLEX=ON,LOGSIZE=1,APPLCOPY=NONE 
> /* */ 
> /*--*/ 
> /* SECURITY=YES: Provides additional RACF security info related */ 
> /* to the $HASP186 message */ 
> /* SYMREC=YES: Message $HASP805 is written when a LOGREC symptom */ 
> /* record is written */ 
> /*--*/ 
> DEBUG SECURITY=YES,SYMREC=YES 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.. 
> 
> Paul Feller 
> AGT Mainframe Technical Support 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Carmen 

Re: USS PFS Interface - 136 byte save area?

[Steve Smith]

Metal C linkage requires your own forward chain to be preset to the NAB.  I
think LE C just uses the NAB.  Regardless, that shouldn't cause a problem
either.

Anyway, I know Jerry, and he certainly already knows this much.

sas

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:38 PM, Tom Marchant <
000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:01:47 -0600, Jerry Callen wrote:
>
> >I'm writing a Physical File System (PFS) for USS, and I've
> >come across an oddity in the interface documentation. The
> >"Environment for PFS Operations" section of z/OS UNIX
> >System Services File System Interface Reference says that,
> >on entry to VFS function routines, R13 is "Save area address,
> >of a 136-byte save area".
>
> I have never heard of a 136-byte save area either. However,
> when a service documents its requirements for a save area,
> the only thing that is expected of the caller is to provide the
> address of a large enough area. If I was calling these routines,
> I would provide a 144-byte save area. If it uses only 136 bytes,
> there is no harm done. It may be that these routines use the
> save area passed in register 13 in some nonstandard way. In
> that case, IPCS won't be much help if there is an abend in the
> service routine.
>
> >I don't think there is such a beast. I'm guessing it means that
> >I should treat this as a 144-byte F4SA, and not chain forward
> >(using the "next" slot at +136 of the old save area).
>
> You don't treat the area that you pass to other programs in
> any way. If you want to forward chain, you do that in
> accordance with the save area format that you used to
> save your caller's registers. If you were passed a 72-byte
> save area that you used to save your caller's registers in
> standard 72-byte format, you would use the fullword at
> offset 8 for the forward chain, regardless of the size of the
> save area that you pass to other routines. When you
> provide a save area, you can call one program that requires
> a 144-byte save area and another that requires a 72-byte
> save area. You would use the same 144-byte save area for
> both calls. Each program would use what it needs.
>
> --
> Tom Marchant
>
> --
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>



-- 
sas

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Re: LOOKAT gone?

[Tom Marchant]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 18:32:02 -0500, Susan Shumway wrote:

>IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use Boolean operators (AND/+, OR/|,
>NOT/-, and so on) to create complex queries.
>Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa
>   - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA
>anywhere in the text.
>
>IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use search operators (intext, inurl,
>intitle, and so on) to create complex queries that further refine your
>search results.
>Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview
>   - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA
>anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the word
>overview in the title.

Thanks for the tips. It would be helpful if these were included in the help 
for the search page. Some of them are. It says that you can use OR, but 
no mention of |, and, or +. No doubt there are other things missing. And 
I'd prefer if the search tips were first in the help.

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Tom Marchant

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Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2

[Carmen Vitullo]

Thanks Jesse, I wondered about the late yesterday before I left, on my test 
LPAR there was another defunked system there, I tested the process of removing 
the system, I think I should have followed the same process in the prod mas I 
was defining 
from the MAS display currently, since I did back this out: 

SDSF MAS DISPLAY SYSA LITJES2 26% SPOOL LINE 1-2 (2) 
COMMAND INPUT ===> SCROLL ===> PAGE 
PREFIX=OPERC* DEST=(ALL) OWNER=* SYSNAME= 
NP NAME Status SID PrevCkpt Hold ActHold Dormancy ActDorm Sync 
SYSA ACTIVE 1 0.27 40 40 (100,500) 229 
SYSB DRAINED,P 2 0.00 0 0 (0,0) 0 

SYSB was the old system I wanted to replace shifting left on the MAS display 
shows 
NAME ol Ind RSID SysName 
SYSA 00 NO SYSA 
SYSB 0 NO SYSC <- this is the system I want to add to the MAS, so I think I 
need to follow the doc more carefully, remove the system bu adding 
MEMBER(2),NAME= 
WARM start JES2, respond to the initialization message, then shut down JES2 
update JES2PARMS with MEMBER(2),NAME=SYSC 
WARM start JES2, respond to the initialization message 
Can't see any other reason for jobs submit but will not run, it has to be a 
mismatch in the PARMS, or I'm not following the process correctly to 
add/replace a system into a MAS. 
Thanks again Jesse 


Carmen 
- Original Message -

From: "Jesse 1 Robinson"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 4:17:52 PM 
Subject: Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 

Following this line of inquiry, get into SDSF and type MAS. There could be a 
discrepancy between the definition for the new member and its old 
gone-but-not-necessarily-forgotten ancestor. Replacing a member IIRC is a 
multistep process that involves first deleting the old guy, then defining the 
new guy. There could be conflicting attributes hanging around. 

. 
. 
J.O.Skip Robinson 
Southern California Edison Company 
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 
323-715-0595 Mobile 
626-302-7535 Office 
robin...@sce.com 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Marchant 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 10:10 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: (External):Re: new JES2 MAS jobs will not run on member 2 

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 08:24:12 -0500, Carmen Vitullo wrote: 

>mermber definition in both systems jes2parms are; 

(snipped) 

You may be focusing unnecessarily on your JES2PARMS. 
Many parameters, including MASDEF cannot be changed with a warm start. 
The only way tho change them is with a cold start, or via command, e.g. 
$TMASDEF. 

-- 
Tom Marchant 


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Re: Dummy question on ISPF command

[Richards, Robert B.]

> I would still prefer a seamlessly sequential approach where ISPF itself would 
> roll over 01/99 to 02/00. 

I would not hold my breath for that enhancement. 

Here's a simple thought: Assign each sysprog a version number. Document that 
assignment in ##VER member. VER is a sortable field. Issue SORT VER and at a 
glance, you know who is currently responsible for updating member(s). Yes, SORT 
ID accomplishes the same thing, I suppose (well, I told you it was a simple 
thought!).

Bob 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Dummy question on ISPF command

I did not know about the VER or LEV command. I can see how they could be useful 
if employed rigorously according to some protocol. We are not a huge shop, but 
there are multiple people who are allowed/encouraged to manage their own pieces 
of the bigger pie. I would still prefer a seamlessly sequential approach where 
ISPF itself would roll over 01/99 to 02/00. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 2:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Dummy question on ISPF command

I have gotten into the habit of using VER and LEV commands from within an edit 
session. I use "VER n" sparingly, but "LEV 0" quite a bit. When I see a 
non-zero level and I know I didn't change it, I cancel back out and see who the 
last changer was before I proceed with my update. Nothing that I ever edit 
reaches 99 unless I have never been into the member and those that I find I 
issue a LEV 0 against. :-)

Bob 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 12:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Dummy question on ISPF command

I'm a huge fan of both ISPF Stats and the Version/Mod values stored in PDS 
members columns 73 - 80. Preserving them requires a bit of forethought. When 
updating a member, it's common practice to create a new or backup member. 
Unfortunately, the 'simplest' ways are the worst:

1. Bad e.g. Edit a new (empty) member, copy all lines from the production 
version into the empty guy, then save the new version. This technique loses all 
previous V/M numbers because ISPF starts over for the new member.

2. Bad e.g. Edit the current member directly and before making any changes, 
copy all lines to Create the backup member. This preserves the current V/M 
numbers but mangles the backup member.

In order to preserve both Stats and V/M line numbers, you need to take the 
out-of-line step of copying the current member to either a backup or future 
name *outside of edit*. You can use Option 3.3 or some other process like 
StarTool Copy. This is a little more hassle, but the goal is to have 
backup/future member look exactly like the production member in every way 
except name. When you edit in updates, ISPF will adjust V/M numbers from the 
current level forward. Nothing lost.

Some gotchas. 

-- Deleted lines disappear without a trace. You have to infer lines missing 
from one iteration to the next. I.e. no logging.   

-- ISPF supports Mod numbers from 00 - 99. There is no rollover, and the 
Version number is never incremented. This is a problem for a long-lived PDS 
like PARMLIB, which may last for years/decades. Eventually the Version reaches 
99 and stays there despite subsequent edits. You can no longer compare versions 
by line number.

-- Remember that there are no ISPF stats for a PS dataset. Consider this fact 
when deciding what kind of file you want to maintain.   

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 6:51 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Dummy question on ISPF command

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 08:20:41 -0600, Dyck, Lionel B. wrote:

>In the normal ISPF Edit (option 2) member list if you use PF10 or PF11 
>to shift left or right) you will see a display with Size, Init, and Mod 
>columns. These display, respectively, the current size of the member, 
>the initial size of the member, and the number of records changed.
>To get an accurate (non-0) Mod count you must have numbers enabled in 
>the member.

In the line number columns 79-80, ISPF Edit stores the Mod number of the change 
that last modified the line. The " VV MM" 

Re: LOOKAT gone?

[David Crayford]

On 6/12/2016 7:32 AM, Susan Shumway wrote:
I don't know about scripted access to KC search, but I can offer up 
some Google search tricks for those of you that prefer that method 
over the (still improving) KC search function. These are from a NaSPA 
deck I helped present early last year...




Why not provide a REST API for KC searches? Even better provide a 
bespoke API for looking up message IDs that sends a response in JSON lines.


IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use Boolean operators (AND/+, OR/|, 
NOT/-, and so on) to create complex queries.

Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa
  - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word 
DVIPA anywhere in the text.


IBM Knowledge Center allows you to use search operators (intext, 
inurl, intitle, and so on) to create complex queries that further 
refine your search results.

Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | intitle:overview
  - Finds topics that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word 
DVIPA anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or 
the word overview in the title.


Each book in the z/OS library is assigned a unique identifier, which 
is included in its URL. For example, book identifier e0zm100 
corresponds to z/OS Migration. You can use the inurl search operator 
and the book's identifier to narrow the search results to a specific 
book. (The list of book identifiers is included in the presentation 
but is WAY too long to include here. Let me know if you're interested 
and I'll see if it's still online anywhere.)
Example: "dynamic vipa" | dvipa intitle:introduction | 
intitle:overview inurl:halz002
  - Finds topics in the "z/OS Communications Server: IP Configuration 
Guide" book that contain the phrase dynamic VIPA OR the word DVIPA 
anywhere in the text AND that contain the word introduction or the 
word overview in the title.
Tip: Book identifiers are also helpful during basic searching. If you 
hover over a topic title link in the search results, the displayed URL 
will contain the identifier of the containing book.





On 12/04/16 6:33 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 10:31:13 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:


And as a side benefit, it does in fact work very nicely from an Android
device (and presumably also from an iOS device). (But unlike Doc 
Buddy, not

off-line.)

And also, as I said in another thread, it works for "everything," 
not just

messages.


I wonder how it compares to Google " site:ibm.com",
which I've been relying on?  Thanks for the suggestion.  An unfortunate
"search terms" for site:ibm.com is "program management" which gives
a basket of deplorable MBA-stuff but hardly any binder hits on the
first page.

Years ago, I wrote a script to drive LOOKAT into Lynx which I had
ported to MVS.  Nothing needed on the desktop except tn3270.

And there's Chicago Soft's Kwik-E-Ref (whatever) for $.

And John McKown lately pondered interfacing curl to ISPF Edit.
I just tried it.  It works, sorta, on simple things such as cbttape.org.
I'm not much moved to try it on KC.

http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/

Where did we fall off the path!?  I wonder whether Susan Shumway
has any thoughts on scripted access to KC search?

-- gil

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Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[esmie moo]

Thanks for clearing it up.  Sometimes I have a problem understanding IBM speak.

On Mon, 12/5/16, Robert2 Gensler  wrote:

 Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Received: Monday, December 5, 2016, 3:41 PM
 
 Hi Esmie,
 
 Yes, for all intents and
 purposes this means FlashCopy.
 
 Robert
 DFSMSdss Architecture
 and Development
 Tucson, AZ
 1-720-349-5211
 rgen...@us.ibm.com
 
 IBM Mainframe Discussion List
 
 wrote on
 12/05/2016 10:20:10 AM:
 
 > From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 > Date: 12/05/2016 10:20 AM
 > Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
 
 >
 > Good Morning Gentle
 Readers,
 >
 > Thanks
 very much for answering my question.  All your input has
 > afforded me additional knowledge aboug
 FLASHCOPY.
 >
 > Robert,
 I checked your suggestion about looking for ADR806I.  It
 > does appear on the output which confirms
 what you said:
 >
 >
 ADR806I (001)-T0MI (02), VOLUME SBR000 WAS COPIED USING A
 FAST
 > REPLICATION FUNCTION.
 >
 > Thanks for the tip. 
 Just to clear up my understanding, does FAST
 > REPLICATION FUNCTION mean the same as
 FLASHCOPY?
 >
 > Thanks
 again.
 >
 
 > On Sun, 12/4/16, Robert2 Gensler 
 wrote:
 >
 >  Subject:
 Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 >  To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 >  Received: Sunday, December 4, 2016, 8:37
 PM
 >
 >  Hi Esmie,
 >
 >  DFSMSdss will
 notify you if
 >  FlashCopy was used by
 issuing an ADR806I in the
 >  sysprint
 output.  You do not see any evidence
 > 
 in the sysin because, by
 >  default,
 COPY
 >  operations use what is called
 FastReplication(PREFERRED).
 >  There is
 a FASTREPLICATION keyword on the copy
 > 
 command that has three
 >  different
 >  sub-parameters.  You can read about the
 details in the
 >  manual.
 >  FCNC is another parameter that
 >  controls how the FlashCopy is made, but
 it
 >  does not control whether or not
 FlashCopy is
 >  used.  That is
 controlled by
 >  the
 >  FASTREPLICATION keyword (or default). 
 Typically FCNC is
 >  used when you
 >  are going to dump the target
 >  of the FlashCopy to tape and in the
 course of
 >  that DUMP command you
 withdraw the original
 >  relationship
 with the
 >  FCWITHDRAW keyword.
 >  Another keyword to investigate using is
 DEBUG(FRMSG
 >  (...)) because if
 FlashCopy was not used, the
 > 
 DEBUG(FRMSG(...))
 >  specification will
 control
 >  how detailed the returned
 information is.
 >
 > 
 Thanks,
 >  Robert
 > 
 DFSMSdss Architecture
 >  and
 Development
 >  Tucson, AZ
 >  1-720-349-5211
 >  rgen...@us.ibm.com
 >
 >  IBM Mainframe
 Discussion List
 >  
 >  wrote on
 > 
 12/03/2016 08:58:21 AM:
 >
 >  > From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
 >  > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 >  > Date: 12/03/2016 09:01 AM
 >  > Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 >  > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion
 List
 >  
 >  >
 >  > Gentle
 Readers,
 >  >
 > 
 > I have a question
 >  about
 FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and COPY.  In my
 >  > first example I was told that the
 job is
 >  using FLASHCOPY.  However
 I
 >  > do not see
 >  any evidence.
 > 
 >
 >  >
 >  COPY
 FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000)
 >  DUMPCONDITIONING
 > 
 > ADR101I (R/I)-RI01
 >  (01), TASKID
 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY
 >  '
 >  >
 >  > From my
 > 
 understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a
 >  > source volume.  If my
 understanding of
 >  the parm
 DUMPCONDITIONING is
 >  > correct,
 >  it (DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a
 copy of the source
 >  > volume and
 while keeping the target volume
 > 
 online.
 >  >
 > 
 > I have
 >  done a full volume copy
 of a source to target without the
 > 
 > DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the
 >  volume was fully copied
 >  > (see below).
 > 
 Am I missing something? Aren't both examples doing
 >  the
 >  > same
 thing?
 >  >
 > 
 >   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1)
 > 
 OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -
 > 
 >   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID
 >  PURGE
 >  > /*
 >  >
 >  > However
 I do not see any evidence of
 > 
 FLASHCOPY being invoked because
 >  >
 the
 >  FCNC parm is not present.
 >  >
 >  > Here is
 a my second example:
 >  >
 >  >  COPY FULL
 > 
 IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390) DUMPCOND FCNC-
 >  > ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP CANCELERROR
 PURGE
 >  FCTOPPRCPRIMARY -
 >  >
 > 
 FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)
 >  >
 >  > In the above example FLASCHOPY is
 being
 >  performed because of the
 FCNC.
 >  >
 > 
 > Could you correct my understanding of all
 >  3 examples?
 > 
 >
 >  >
 > 
 Thanks.
 >  >
 > 
 >
 > 
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