AW: Re: Why are highly busy zIIPs worse than highly busy CPs?

[Peter Hunkeler]

>I believe hyper dispatch is very different from zIIP dispatch.  I stand by my 
>assumption that GP dispatch is very different from zIIP dispatch, or why would 
>there be the ZIIPAWMT parameter and have the comment about waking up after 
>that interval to see if there is work.  When non-zIIP work comes ready and a 
>processor is free, the work is dispatched.  No waiting.  The comments in the 
>parameter description for ZIIPAWMT is describing a polling environment, at 
>least to me.


There is CCAWTM which does the same thing as ZAAPAWMT and ZIIPAWMT but for CPs. 
I think your statement about CP work being dispatched immediately when a CP is 
free, does not hold true.


It was before "alternate wait management" was introduced (I don't remember when 
that was), when newly ready, higher priority work had interrupted lower 
priority work on a CP, or woken up a waiting CP.





>I have looked through the internet, OK not the be-all and end-all but a 
>reasonable place to start, and there is a lot on what can get dispatched on a 
>zIIP, but no detail on how.


The last five words are the very reason I started this thread. When it comes to 
zIIPs, there is much only fuzzy information out there. I did google and read 
every presentation I could get a hand on.


So, coming back to one of my questions: The fuzzy information say that zIIP 
eligible work will suffer from a ZIIPAWMT delay when the zIIPs are overloaded 
and are asking for help from CPs.


You mentioned the ZIIPAWMT delay *before* zIIPs idle zIIPs will start to work 
on newly arrived work. Ok, this is part of the delay. But as soon as there is a 
steady load of zIIP work, that start up delay will not occur again (think of my 
simplified case I initially described). Similarly the "ask for help ZIIPAWMT 
delay" will occur only once when there is work constantly seen on the the zIIP 
WUQ.


I still think that, theoretically, zIIP eligible work will be served somewhat 
better than non zIIP eligible work *when* the zIIPs is being helped (depending 
on the works priority, of course). There are two processors looking after the 
single work queue. Oversimplified, you think? Maybe but its my starting point 
anyway.


--
Peter Hunkeler


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AW: Re: Why are highly busy zIIPs worse than highly busy CPs?

[Peter Hunkeler]

>zIIP dispatching is the same as GP dispatching.  ZIIPAWMT
has analogous parameters for GP (CCCAWMT) and zAAP (ZAAPAWMT).
Alternate wait management was created long before there were
specialty engines.



Thank, Jim, much appreciated.
Sorry, guys, for not reading the latest posts before writing mine talking about 
CCCAWMT


--
Peter Hunkeler



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AW: Re: Why are highly busy zIIPs worse than highly busy CPs?

[Peter Hunkeler]

>You really want Gary King or Dan Rosa to chime in, not me. I can rarely
keep the details straight. If they provide me with information to relay on
their behalf, I will be glad to.



Thanks, for the offer. How about forwarding my initial post. I had written the 
points of interest to me, and I think to many here.


--
Peter Hunkeler



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Re: 360 Front Panel has found a new home

[Linda]

Hi Pete,

Nice pics!  

My first machine was a Univac 90/70 D at college.  That Univac took a fall over 
and slide to the bottom of a full flight of stairs on its way to being 
installed. No elevator to the basement, just the stairs. Later I did a school 
project and some extra stuff on a Burroughs 1800 that belonged to a city 
nearby.  I liked the CANDE editor it had too. 

I don't have pics to share - no pics were allowed. 

Linda


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 4:12 PM, Pete Lancashire  wrote:
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/36CxlZQJDssj5uLh1
> 
> I would like to thank the list for giving me the opportunity to find a home
> for this bit of History.
> 
> Ever since joining the list I have enjoyed many of the discussions even
> though my main frame days are Burroughs based in the early 1970s.
> 
> Regards
> 
> -pete
> 
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AW: Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.

[Peter Hunkeler]

All log data, or any data for which there is a potential need to be able to 
sort it, should only ever display dates in a sort friendly way, such as the ISO 
format.

--
Peter Hunkeler




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Netview Automation Table Code

[saurabh khandelwal]

I tried posting my message in netview group but I think its not active much.

I designed solution like below.

Message to be trapped from syslog is ...

* FDNBT.DATA.VPLUS.SDPAT17.G1678V00*


*OUR SYSLOG VIEW*

---6+7+8+9+0+1+2+

IGD104I FDNBT.DATA.VPLUS.SDPAT17.G1678V00RETAINED,

 DDNAME=NDM00222

 SVTM052I  FROM E2CP.AZD601P2.ATI7.NBK.PS
.G3104V00

* SVTM052I  TO   FDNBT.DATA.VPLUS.SDPAT17.G1678V00*

 SVTM052I  COMPLETED  /SCPA000I

-  -TIMINGS (MINS.)--




In netview table, i wrote below code.



IF MSGID = 'SVTM052I' & TEXT = .'TO'. & TEXT = MTXT THEN

 EXEC(CMD('FIBREXX 'MTXT)) NETLOG(Y) SYSLOG(Y);





and the REXX i am calling from CNMCLST is  FIBREXX  as below.


/*  REXX */

parse arg mtxt . mtxt

say 'FIB DATASET NAME IS' mtxt

mvs "send 'FIB DATASET NAME IS "mtxt"',user=(TS54),LOGON"

exit




But unfortunately, above solution is not working for me. I even unable to
trap this  SVTM052I message id in netview and then submit this rexx to
operator.


Can you please help to identify the issue.

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Re: Use of dynamic system symbols in JCL

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 16:13:34 -0700, Gerhard Adam  wrote:
>
>This is the JCL Reference for z/OS 2.3 (page 183)
>
>Note:
>1. In general, the system treats a single ampersand (&) followed by a 
>character string of 1 to 8 characters as a symbolic parameter. (See “Using 
>system symbols and JCL symbols” on page 38.) However, if you code a data set 
>name as a symbolic parameter (by coding DSNAME=&), and do not assign a 
>value to or nullify the symbolic parameter, the system will process it as a 
>temporary data set name.
> 
Yes.  Thanks.  And the previous page, Op. cit. 182:

Data set name for temporary data set
...
When you use DSNAME for a temporary data set, code the name as two ampersands 
(&&) followed by a character string 1 to 8 characters in length:
o The first character following the ampersands must be alphabetic or national..
o The remaining characters must be alphanumeric or national.
>
The more I think about this, the less I like it.  The Ref. gives a couple 
examples
in lieu of a formal rule, leaving it to the clever reader to infer that rule.  
There's
been much stumbling toward that ojective in this thread with statements such
as, "This seems to work, but I can't tell why."

Rather, I'd omit the "Note:" as quoted.  That information appears elswhere the 
Ref.
and needn't appear redundantly here.  Rather, page 182 should say:

Data set name for temporary data set
...
When you use DSNAME for a temporary data set, the equivalent JCL after symbol
substitution (as described on page 45, "Determining equivalent JCL") should be
a single ampersand (&) followed by a character string 1 to 8 characters in 
length:
o The first character following the ampersands must be alphabetic or national.
o The remaining characters must be alphanumeric or national.

This covers cases not currently described such as:
//  SET TEMP='Who cares, anyway?'
//  SET TTT='&TEMP'
//SYSUT2  DD  DSN=&TTT,...

-- gil

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Re: MVS send command in REXX

[saurabh khandelwal]

changing  user=(AG54) from  user(AG54) finally worked for me  and now this
command performing correctly.

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Re: Use of dynamic system symbols in JCL

[Gerhard Adam]

I don't see what the issue is.  It simply says that if you code a DSN as a 
symbol and it is not resolved, then the symbol name itself becomes the 
temporary DSN

I'm not clear on why anyone would care about this behavior?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2018, at 2:15 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
> <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 16:13:34 -0700, Gerhard Adam  wrote:
>> 
>> This is the JCL Reference for z/OS 2.3 (page 183)
>> 
>> Note:
>> 1. In general, the system treats a single ampersand (&) followed by a 
>> character string of 1 to 8 characters as a symbolic parameter. (See “Using 
>> system symbols and JCL symbols” on page 38.) However, if you code a data set 
>> name as a symbolic parameter (by coding DSNAME=&), and do not assign 
>> a value to or nullify the symbolic parameter, the system will process it as 
>> a temporary data set name.
> Yes.  Thanks.  And the previous page, Op. cit. 182:
> 
> Data set name for temporary data set
>...
> When you use DSNAME for a temporary data set, code the name as two ampersands 
> (&&) followed by a character string 1 to 8 characters in length:
> o The first character following the ampersands must be alphabetic or 
> national..
> o The remaining characters must be alphanumeric or national.
> The more I think about this, the less I like it.  The Ref. gives a couple 
> examples
> in lieu of a formal rule, leaving it to the clever reader to infer that rule. 
>  There's
> been much stumbling toward that ojective in this thread with statements such
> as, "This seems to work, but I can't tell why."
> 
> Rather, I'd omit the "Note:" as quoted.  That information appears elswhere 
> the Ref.
> and needn't appear redundantly here.  Rather, page 182 should say:
> 
> Data set name for temporary data set
>...
> When you use DSNAME for a temporary data set, the equivalent JCL after symbol
> substitution (as described on page 45, "Determining equivalent JCL") should be
> a single ampersand (&) followed by a character string 1 to 8 characters in 
> length:
> o The first character following the ampersands must be alphabetic or national.
> o The remaining characters must be alphanumeric or national.
> 
> This covers cases not currently described such as:
>//  SET TEMP='Who cares, anyway?'
>//  SET TTT='&TEMP'
>//SYSUT2  DD  DSN=&TTT,...
> 
> -- gil
> 
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Re: Use of dynamic system symbols in JCL

[Seymour J Metz]

> What happens if JCL performs symbol substitution? 

I would expect that to be a valid temporary reference.

> R21.7 and later say use DSNAME=&&dsname.

WTF is your e-mail clients doing with ampersands? It looks like it's trying to 
convert one of them to HTML but not the other. IAC, &&dsname evaluates to 
&dsname, which is a valid temporary as long as dsname adheres to the 
restrictions.

> //  SET A2='&&TEMP'

I would expect that to be an invalid temporary reference.

> There's been enough confusion among experts in this forum that a clarifying
> RCF seems appropriate. 

Couldn't hurt.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 7:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Use of dynamic system symbols in JCL

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 18:02:13 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>>Except, does support of DSN=&TMP antedate any support of symbols in JCL,
>> not only by SET but also as PROC parameters?
>
>Yes. Bitsavers is your friend. 
>
>
OK.  That says use DSNAME=&name.  R21.7 and later say use DSNAME=&&dsname.
What happens if JCL performs symbol substitution?  For example

//  SET A1='&TEMP'
//  SET A2='&&TEMP'
//*
//STEP  EXEC  PGM=IEFBR14
//D1  DD  DSN=&A1   * Should be unsupported; only one ampersand after 
substitution.
//D1  DD  DSN=&A2   * Should be accepted; two ampersands after substitution.

There's been enough confusion among experts in this forum that a clarifying
RCF seems appropriate.  The existing doc antedates and takes scant account of
symbol substitution

-- gil

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Re: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.

[Charles Mills]

One (of many) advantage of which is that it sorts rationally.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Beer
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 8:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: SYSLOG / OPERLOG displaying date.

There is an ISO standard for the date:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

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Re: Use of dynamic system symbols in JCL

[Seymour J Metz]

Single ampersand is correct for temporary dataset names. With the advent of 
symbolic parameters circq OS/360 R14, double ampersand became valid as a symbol 
that expanded to a single ampersand.

\\fooPROC  bar=baz
...
\\SYSUT1   DD  DSN=&&&bar

should request the temporary &baz. I'd be interested to see if that actually 
works.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 5:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Use of dynamic system symbols in JCL

And I'm one of the perpetrators!  For a long time I thought the single
asterisk was proper and whenever I saw the double I assumed it was a
mistake that just happened to work.

Tom Conley wrote:
> On 6/9/2018 2:24 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>
>> On 6/6/2018 8:51 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
>>
>>> This has been previously discussed.  The main issue (as usual) is
>>> incompatibility with an ancient bug (or feature).  Specifically,
>>> temporary
>>> dataset names such as DSN=&TMP.  That's supposed to be DSN=&&TMP, but
>>> for
>>> whatever reason, the single-& version works, unless &TMP is a symbol.
>>
>>
>> Wow! I confirmed this is an exposure! I never knew!
>>
>> IBM does not mention the single ampersand being valid temporary data
>> set name syntax in the description of the DSNAME parameter on the DD
>> statement and I have previously not seen it used that way.
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/17SostiwRF4glBwCbQGN00grlR4ZOVHRcF4WVEacpIKb5xpeZmW91ak-fwttTKazaMniGXJ-IXbDupio6X8Nx94ypSi9sOeZVkacHTyBQHA2cA4UpVSxGby7BZF852syZg-h34iZQ9y_4I1Pb6LBYktA73idbRjCjVjU7TU85rUBE2mFzNVg_VRN3y8KMDuOcIpvWtd4ggTzTNEnqw7K6nC6VeSMOgaZ6ukq4PIQ0U4M_25EQ2sauzAnBaRlBeDPpD9_ZFZOenKK2YL7ADvuCzGxfOu_g20LqMi3l-Nm5XXEZIQ22ugCUPP5Wism7Z0jSHAIj4VTKqEvC9S-6eEMmg9KMldgxuM2KYW_7W7meV8y-pnSUjza6HY9-bpM53UZL_iVNqgmBW6wLgYxyCw9V303VSJgG7UsgYNsa1daV0b6ssG99i3py_XcAjA-fNZqS/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibm.com%2Fsupport%2Fknowledgecenter%2Fen%2FSSLTBW_2.3.0%2Fcom.ibm.zos.v2r3.ieab600%2Fiea3b6_Syntax25.htm
>>
>>
>> This reminds me of the rule in REXX where use of an uninitialized
>> variable results in the variable name itself being substituted. But,
>> that is documented behavior. This is just plain wrong.
>>
>> It might be a good use of the common tracker component (GTZ) to help
>> identify JCL with such errors. Otherwise, every new symbol added -- to
>> the system, to a proc, to anything that might have visibility to a job
>> stream -- can lead to unexpected JCL errors.
>>
>
> That's not a bug, that's a FEATURE!
>
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Re: CSSMTP debug No Brackets Allowed

[Seymour J Metz]

Note really; you need to go to the standards organizations rather than relying 
in wiki. For examples, see RFC 3629 and 5198.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 4:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: CSSMTP debug No Brackets Allowed

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 18:26:08 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The context is data that are not Unicode.
>
>Ban the BOM! IETF recommends leaving UTF-8 files alone, but m$ can't be 
>bothered.
>
It's more complicated thatn that, but, yes:

https://secure-web.cisco.com/14OGdRIm-oPSUHZYv7yeKxJQiIUMe4YVxXB7P0Gu66LhAAOTE0D8VTnGA2ql-nNaUr6fKgX18MVaFodasjLEMAKvqkIR6exR9QPzrrGIbfxLiJmY3FB6QwiruWjB8joyCYd2SMHnkDKcYqFI1TSNsXp5NAOiI-US27C8airLRMW3D09Jx_LA4oQ2eq8kc5wcDT3srmJbIX3XDiAIyl7YBnxJaDppTg9qVXRJ5IoLdJFXEU5qO0RPD5ygNaitH_EELsIBQ8tKsy7pLe1GtDRDy19fbDdvfI5Ecrz0T6wzx29jBMzeg3NsHz4NQvef65cFyTuJmLA02l_vWgPPKrO6RkTFOTzDukEeT-wWlUjhFjA_beGwFhh__n6-KZqk2jxy7llXxz04cyrV7ppfqJ3o2R6yJaASY_1T2LThokfxpBcCn7TW2fMyxMpfiiu-OMk9b/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FByte_order_mark#UTF-8

> ... Did I mention that I hate editors that corrupt my source files, as well 
> as the compilers that can't be bothered to display the hex encoding of 
> invalid nondisplayable characters?
>
Or squeeze several characters of illegible hex into a single character cell.

-- gil

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Re: SORTLIB DD

[Alan Young]

Can the large file be split into two or more smaller files? One way to split is


https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.iceg200/ice2cg_Splitting.htm


Then sort the smaller files and merge the sorted files. Sort will only merge 
from two DDs at

a time. Depending on how many small files are created multiple merges or an 
application program will be needed if the process needs to merge all the sorted 
split files in one pass.


The merge process may be able to be done differently if the smaller files can 
be created with INCLUDE criteria to make each small file a unique group like 
year, subscriber number ranges, etc. If grouping can be done, you may be able 
to concatenate the files during the merge.


Alan


From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 10:51
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SORTLIB DD

In one failing job, we get   

ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203   
ICE046A E SORT CAPACITY EXCEEDED - RECORD COUNT 41,235,203 
ICE253I 0 RECORDS SORTED - PROCESSED: 41,235,203, EXPECTED: 310,580,760  <== 
note very high expectation  

As to how much DASD space is available, I have no idea. Not a storage guy.   
Virtual memory is whatever it is at z/OS 2.1.  
User tried tape sort but had the job cancelled after 24 hours. Unfortunately 
canceler apparently purged job as well, so nothing to look at.  
As for why specify SORTLIB DD: DFSORT requires it. Job will not run without it. 
 

. 
. 
J.O.Skip Robinson 
Southern California Edison Company 
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 
323-715-0595 Mobile 
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW 
robin...@sce.com 


-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S. 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 2:33 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD 

Let me ask again: 
What is the size of input data? 
How much space do you have for temp datasets? 
How much memory can the job use? 


BTW: While sortworks on tape can be justified in case of lack of DASD space, I 
still see no reason to specify SORTLIB DD. 

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka 
Lodz, Poland 






W dniu 2018-06-07 o 20:14, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze: 
> Let me reiterate. The problem job tries to allocate more DASD work space than 
> *exists* on the system. SORTIN is on tape--multiple files. We have the 
> capability of putting more volumes online temporarily, but this is a major 
> PITA and requires intervention from the Storage boys. I'm hoping that tape 
> SORTWK will get the user over the occasional hump for this ad hoc 
> non-production job. It does not have to perform well. It just has to work. 
> 
> . 
> . 
> J.O.Skip Robinson 
> Southern California Edison Company 
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 
> 323-715-0595 Mobile 
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW 
> robin...@sce.com 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of R.S. 
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 2:49 AM 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: (External):Re: SORTLIB DD 
> 
> Get rid of SORTLIB DD 
> Get rid of SORTWKnn DD 
> Use dynamic sortwork datasets, optionally set the number of datasets via 
> OPTION DYNALLOC Don't use tapes for sortwork 
> 
> BTW: 
> What is a size of input data? 
> How much space do you have for temp datasets? 
> How much memory can the job use? 
> 
> 
> My €0.02 
> 
> -- 
> Radoslaw Skorupka 
> Lodz, Poland 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W dniu 2018-06-05 o 18:31, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze: 
>> We have a DFSORT job that wolfs down enormous amounts of SORTWK space. It 
>> has been exceeding the DASD capacity on the system where it runs, so we 
>> advised the user to point SORTWK to tape instead of DASD. Now it fails with 
>> 
>> IEC130I SORTLIB  DD STATEMENT MISSING 
>> IEF472I CIHM373 STEP010 CIHM373 - COMPLETION CODE - SYSTEM=000 USER=0063 
>> 
>> IBM doc indicates the need for SORTLIB with a 'tape sort'. We have no 
>> working example to share with the user. My question: what should DD SORTLIB 
>> point to? SMPE puts load modules into 
>> 
>> SYS1.SORTLIB 
>> SYS1.SICELINK 
>> 
>> Should the user specify only the first one or both? I hate to drag them into 
>> a sysprog guessing game. 
>> 
>> . 
>> . 
>> J.O.Skip Robinson 
>> Southern California Edison Company 
>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 
>> 323-715-0595 Mobile 
>> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW 
>> robin...@sce.com 


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Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)

[David Crayford]

On 9/06/2018 3:16 PM, Ron hawkins wrote:

You have asked me and I have said nothing.

 From Du Hast - Rammstein.


Ahhh. I didn't know that because I don't speak German. Great song! 
French may be the language of love but German is language of anger ;)




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Crayford
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program 
design)

On 9/06/2018 7:03 AM, Ron hawkins wrote:

You have asked me and I have said nothing.

Are they lyrics from a Barnsey song?


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
Behalf Of Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform
program design)

Rammstein

Thanks,

Tom Savor


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of David Crayford
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 12:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program
design)

On 8/06/2018 3:15 AM, Peter Hunkeler wrote:

It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich

Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.

rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)

What do you listen to, Beethoven? Ramstein? :)



Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that 
contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.


--
Peter Hunkeler



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Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)

[Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)]

Weird, here is the English translation I have:
You
You have
You have me
You have me to say
You have me to say
And I did not obey

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever

Never

Will you 'til death be her rider
Her lover too, to stay inside her

Never

Thanks,

Tom Savor


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ron hawkins
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 3:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program design)

You have asked me and I have said nothing.

From Du Hast - Rammstein.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Crayford
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program 
design)

On 9/06/2018 7:03 AM, Ron hawkins wrote:
> You have asked me and I have said nothing.

Are they lyrics from a Barnsey song?

>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:50 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform 
> program design)
>
> Rammstein
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Savor
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 12:12 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: OT: Rap music (was Re: opinion: multi-platform program
> design)
>
> On 8/06/2018 3:15 AM, Peter Hunkeler wrote:
>> It's amost Friday, right. At least here in Zurich
>>> Rap music is performed by those that can not sing so others can not think.
>> rap music? Isn't this a contradiction in terms ;-)
>
> What do you listen to, Beethoven? Ramstein? :)
>
>
>> Apologies to all the rappers out there, and the ones who like that 
>> contradiction, ahem.. music. No offense intended.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Hunkeler
>>
>>
>>
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>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 
>> IBM-MAIN
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