Using NTP

[Gadi Ben-Avi]

Hi,

I was asked to make sure that the mainframes are using the same time source as 
the rest of the computers on our network.
I know what the NTP servers are in our network.

In the HMC, I found 'Customize Console Date/Time'
I added the NTP servers to the screen, and they seem to have been accepted.
(I did this for our DR computer)

Do I have to do anything else?

We are currently running z13s's if that matters.

Thanks

Gadi


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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[David Crayford]

Most web applications are backed by an API these days. You don't want to 
be parsing HTML in REXX (yikes!).


On 2020-07-16 1:00 AM, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

Does anyone have any advice on how to enable a current ISPF application to
support a web interface?

  


Specifically:

  


1.  User authentication
2.  Present a web page similar to the current ISPF panel
3.  Receive input from the web page
4.  Return information to a web page

  


Thanks in advance

  

  


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:   https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

  



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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[ITschak Mugzach]

The problem was solved years ago outside of the mainframe. I am sure there
are vendor reps here to tell.

ITschak

ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM comming son  *




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:52 AM David Crayford  wrote:

> Most web applications are backed by an API these days. You don't want to
> be parsing HTML in REXX (yikes!).
>
> On 2020-07-16 1:00 AM, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> > Does anyone have any advice on how to enable a current ISPF application
> to
> > support a web interface?
> >
> >
> >
> > Specifically:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1.User authentication
> > 2.Present a web page similar to the current ISPF panel
> > 3.Receive input from the web page
> > 4.Return information to a web page
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lionel B. Dyck <
> > Website:   https://www.lbdsoftware.com
> >
> > "Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
> > you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
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Re: [External] Re: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud | Network World

[Seymour J Metz]

My first impression was "technobabble", but perhaps "buzzword bingo" is more 
accurate. Or should that be "All hat and no steer"? Whether that's because 
there's no there there or the reporter left something out I can't tell.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Pommier, Rex [rpomm...@sfgmembers.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 5:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Re: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the 
cloud | Network World

Ron,

Let me rephrase that for you.   So many words, so much...  Blowing Snow.

I like the first line of the last paragraph, which is a Gartner quote from last 
year:

"The value gained by moving applications from the traditional enterprise 
platform onto the next 'bright, shiny thing' rarely provides an improvement in 
the business process or the company's bottom line. A great deal of analysis 
must be performed and each cost accounted for."

LZLabs doesn't appear to be "modernizing" anything, they're emulating z 
architecture and running it on x86 hardware.  Same application software, with 
an additional layer of "slow me down" sitting between the application and the 
user.  Call me skeptical.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ron 
Wells
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud 
| Network World

So many words/so  few

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Regan
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Fwd: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud | Network 
World

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Regards,

Mark T. Regan
Nationwide Insurance, Retired

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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Lionel B Dyck]

No need for it to retain the look/feel of ISPF - just the functionality 


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Gord Tomlin
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

On 2020-07-15 16:52, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> The thought is to not present an ISPF panel, which you could do using 
> the zOSMF ISPF interface but to make it a true web interface.

Is the desired end result to have only the web interface, or do you want to 
continue to have an ISPF interface as well?

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: Using NTP

[R.S.]

W dniu 16.07.2020 o 09:28, Gadi Ben-Avi pisze:

Hi,

I was asked to make sure that the mainframes are using the same time source as 
the rest of the computers on our network.
I know what the NTP servers are in our network.

In the HMC, I found 'Customize Console Date/Time'
I added the NTP servers to the screen, and they seem to have been accepted.
(I did this for our DR computer)

Do I have to do anything else?

We are currently running z13s's if that matters.


This is part of the things you have to do.
First, check your hardware list - I mean list of features delivered 
(feature codes). You have to have STP enablement. This is replacement of 
sysplex timer, but it is also prerequisite for synchronisation with NTP.
Next is to enable STP network, which is rather simple in case of single 
CPC, but it is reported as disruptive.

Next is to change CLOCKxx member and reIPL.
Oh, do it slowly.  A mistake may cause you will have to start over. And 
delete existing setup which is also reported as disruptive.


BTW: There is also option to use "very accurate" time source - in that 
case you have to connect it directly to CPC using coax (you can find BNC 
connectors).


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Itschak Mugzach]

Still, is it a one to one application? I mean, user logon to his own TSO
account? BTW, if you do not need SSL, you don't need to use the web
enablement. it is more complex to use. simple rexx TCPIP support is
sufficient.

ITschak

*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux
and IBM I **|  *

*|* *Email**: i_mugz...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
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On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:37 AM Lionel B Dyck  wrote:

> No need for it to retain the look/feel of ISPF - just the functionality
>
>
> Lionel B. Dyck <
> Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
>
> "Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
> you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Gord Tomlin
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:51 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Web enabled ISPF Application
>
> On 2020-07-15 16:52, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> > The thought is to not present an ISPF panel, which you could do using
> > the zOSMF ISPF interface but to make it a true web interface.
>
> Is the desired end result to have only the web interface, or do you want
> to continue to have an ISPF interface as well?
>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
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Re: [External] Re: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud | Network World

[ITschak Mugzach]

Rex,

I think the emulation of Z is only one step. the next step is moving to
modern languages as you go.

ITschak

ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM comming son  *




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:13 AM Pommier, Rex 
wrote:

> Ron,
>
> Let me rephrase that for you.   So many words, so much...  Blowing Snow.
>
> I like the first line of the last paragraph, which is a Gartner quote from
> last year:
>
> "The value gained by moving applications from the traditional enterprise
> platform onto the next 'bright, shiny thing' rarely provides an improvement
> in the business process or the company's bottom line. A great deal of
> analysis must be performed and each cost accounted for."
>
> LZLabs doesn't appear to be "modernizing" anything, they're emulating z
> architecture and running it on x86 hardware.  Same application software,
> with an additional layer of "slow me down" sitting between the application
> and the user.  Call me skeptical.
>
> Rex
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Ron Wells
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:00 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: [External] Re: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the
> cloud | Network World
>
> So many words/so  few
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Mark Regan
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:45 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Fwd: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud |
> Network World
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
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>
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Re: Using NTP

[R.S.]

To complement:
Now your HMC is connected to time network. To some time servers.
The HMC will act as time server for CPC. NTP is kind of cascading 
structure.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





==

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Re: [External] Re: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud | Network World

[R.S.]

Usually it different.
First step is change platform.
Second step is change application or close the business.
Modern languages? Why is it always current MS .NET or how they name it?

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 16.07.2020 o 11:08, ITschak Mugzach pisze:

Rex,

I think the emulation of Z is only one step. the next step is moving to
modern languages as you go.

ITschak

ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM comming son  *




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:13 AM Pommier, Rex 
wrote:


Ron,

Let me rephrase that for you.   So many words, so much...  Blowing Snow.

I like the first line of the last paragraph, which is a Gartner quote from
last year:

"The value gained by moving applications from the traditional enterprise
platform onto the next 'bright, shiny thing' rarely provides an improvement
in the business process or the company's bottom line. A great deal of
analysis must be performed and each cost accounted for."

LZLabs doesn't appear to be "modernizing" anything, they're emulating z
architecture and running it on x86 hardware.  Same application software,
with an additional layer of "slow me down" sitting between the application
and the user.  Call me skeptical.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Ron Wells
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the
cloud | Network World

So many words/so  few

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Mark Regan
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Fwd: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud |
Network World

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OMVS MAXPROCSYS parameter question

[Horne, Jim]

I know I can use the D OMVS,OPTIONS parameter to see my current MAXPROCSYS 
value in OMVS, but is it kept in SMF so I can see historical values?  I looked 
but I did not see it.

Jim Horne


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Re: Fwd: Options grow for migrating mainframe apps to the cloud | Network World

[Bobbie Justice]

Translation: management by airline magazine, round 512. 

Bobbie Jo Justice
Senior Systems Engineer

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AW: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Immo]

Hi Lionel,

I would suggest you implement a server application that communicates with
the frontend (web browser) using HTTP/SSL/TLS and with your backend ISPF
application using a server version of a 3270 terminal emulation running
without a GUI.

You can use an OHIO (Open Host Interface Objects) or HLLAPI supporting
emulation that can be used to program a 3270 emulation communication without
a physical operator. This will require you to newly design and implement the
HTML web browser frontend but you will be able to use your ISPF application
without the need of any changes on the mainframe. All you have to do is to
extract the relevant information from your new web interface and feed the
GUI-less server emulation session by filling the 3270 panel fields and
sending the information to your ISPF application. In the opposite direction
your server emulation session will have to extract the information from your
ISPF panels and feed the web interface to present this information to your
web browser users. Since front- and backend are completely decoupled you can
choose any design for your new web browser frontend.

Since the user has to sign on to your mainframe/ISPF application (each user
will have its own mainframe/TSO telnet session as today), your current
system of user authentication will be sufficient.

Please get in touch in case you're interested. Our company provides an OHIO
enabled Java 3270 terminal emulation that our customers have used to
implement solutions to requirements similar to yours.

Regards,
Michael

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von
Lionel B Dyck
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2020 14:00
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Web enabled ISPF Application

Does anyone have any advice on how to enable a current ISPF application to
support a web interface?

 

Specifically:

 

1.  User authentication
2.  Present a web page similar to the current ISPF panel
3.  Receive input from the web page
4.  Return information to a web page

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:   https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

 


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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Lionel B Dyck]

Thank you but I'm not interested in a 3270 like interface - I want to
provide a web interface that has the look/feel of the web rather than a
3270.


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Immo
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: Web enabled ISPF Application

Hi Lionel,

I would suggest you implement a server application that communicates with
the frontend (web browser) using HTTP/SSL/TLS and with your backend ISPF
application using a server version of a 3270 terminal emulation running
without a GUI.

You can use an OHIO (Open Host Interface Objects) or HLLAPI supporting
emulation that can be used to program a 3270 emulation communication without
a physical operator. This will require you to newly design and implement the
HTML web browser frontend but you will be able to use your ISPF application
without the need of any changes on the mainframe. All you have to do is to
extract the relevant information from your new web interface and feed the
GUI-less server emulation session by filling the 3270 panel fields and
sending the information to your ISPF application. In the opposite direction
your server emulation session will have to extract the information from your
ISPF panels and feed the web interface to present this information to your
web browser users. Since front- and backend are completely decoupled you can
choose any design for your new web browser frontend.

Since the user has to sign on to your mainframe/ISPF application (each user
will have its own mainframe/TSO telnet session as today), your current
system of user authentication will be sufficient.

Please get in touch in case you're interested. Our company provides an OHIO
enabled Java 3270 terminal emulation that our customers have used to
implement solutions to requirements similar to yours.

Regards,
Michael

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von
Lionel B Dyck
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2020 14:00
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Web enabled ISPF Application

Does anyone have any advice on how to enable a current ISPF application to
support a web interface?

 

Specifically:

 

1.  User authentication
2.  Present a web page similar to the current ISPF panel
3.  Receive input from the web page
4.  Return information to a web page

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:   https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

 


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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Carmen Vitullo]

well, z/OSMF provides ISPF services within the application, once setup and 
invoked you logon and get ISPF looking screen, not a green screen. 
not sure this is what your looking for, but give it a look. 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Lionel B Dyck"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:19:23 AM 
Subject: Re: Web enabled ISPF Application 

Thank you but I'm not interested in a 3270 like interface - I want to 
provide a web interface that has the look/feel of the web rather than a 
3270. 


Lionel B. Dyck < 
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com 

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what 
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Immo 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:05 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: AW: Web enabled ISPF Application 

Hi Lionel, 

I would suggest you implement a server application that communicates with 
the frontend (web browser) using HTTP/SSL/TLS and with your backend ISPF 
application using a server version of a 3270 terminal emulation running 
without a GUI. 

You can use an OHIO (Open Host Interface Objects) or HLLAPI supporting 
emulation that can be used to program a 3270 emulation communication without 
a physical operator. This will require you to newly design and implement the 
HTML web browser frontend but you will be able to use your ISPF application 
without the need of any changes on the mainframe. All you have to do is to 
extract the relevant information from your new web interface and feed the 
GUI-less server emulation session by filling the 3270 panel fields and 
sending the information to your ISPF application. In the opposite direction 
your server emulation session will have to extract the information from your 
ISPF panels and feed the web interface to present this information to your 
web browser users. Since front- and backend are completely decoupled you can 
choose any design for your new web browser frontend. 

Since the user has to sign on to your mainframe/ISPF application (each user 
will have its own mainframe/TSO telnet session as today), your current 
system of user authentication will be sufficient. 

Please get in touch in case you're interested. Our company provides an OHIO 
enabled Java 3270 terminal emulation that our customers have used to 
implement solutions to requirements similar to yours. 

Regards, 
Michael 

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- 
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von 
Lionel B Dyck 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2020 14:00 
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Betreff: Web enabled ISPF Application 

Does anyone have any advice on how to enable a current ISPF application to 
support a web interface? 



Specifically: 



1. User authentication 
2. Present a web page similar to the current ISPF panel 
3. Receive input from the web page 
4. Return information to a web page 



Thanks in advance 





Lionel B. Dyck < 
Website:  https://www.lbdsoftware.com 

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what 
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden 




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Re: RMM Returning Tapes from outside Location

[Tom Conley]

On 7/16/2020 7:11 AM, Dave Rankin wrote:

We have recently moved our Mainframe to another location and a new robot.

RMM is working as it should except when tapes are ejected by RMM to another 
location and returned.

They are placed into the Robot hopper and into a emtpy slot but RMM is not 
picking up the return.

I run a "RMM CV * CMOVE (OFFDR,M4ATL1)"  command to confirm move yet the tapes 
are still marked as not resident in Library.

I am clearly missing something.

Any help will be appreciated.

Dave



Dave,

You most likely have a problem in your CBRUXENT exit, which should be 
updating both RMM and the TCDB when you enter the tapes into the 
library.  Make sure OAM is up and running correctly, check its joblog 
for errors.  It's been a while for me (haven't had physical tapes to 
deal with in years), but when you enter a tape, OAM should issue a 
message that a tape is being entered. Are you using EXPORT or EJECT?  If 
using EXPORT, make sure you IMPORT the tape, not just ENTER it.


Good Luck,
Tom Conley

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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2020-07-16 04:36, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

No need for it to retain the look/feel of ISPF - just the functionality



Sorry, what I meant is this: once you have developed this web interface, 
do you intend that to be the only interface, or do you still want to be 
able to use the ISPF interface as well? If you intend to keep both, then 
consider decoupling the user interface layer from the application logic. 
Then you only have one set of application logic to maintain.


--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Itschak Mugzach]

Lionel,

Do you want to display the exact copy of the ISPF display in HTML? is this
what you are looking at (Without the logic parts as )INIT, )REINIT, PROC,
etc.)?

ITschak

*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux
and IBM I **|  *

*|* *Email**: i_mugz...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
*Skype**: ItschakMugzach **|* *Web**: www.Securiteam.co.il  **|*





On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 5:18 PM Gord Tomlin 
wrote:

> On 2020-07-16 04:36, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> > No need for it to retain the look/feel of ISPF - just the functionality
>
>
> Sorry, what I meant is this: once you have developed this web interface,
> do you intend that to be the only interface, or do you still want to be
> able to use the ISPF interface as well? If you intend to keep both, then
> consider decoupling the user interface layer from the application logic.
> Then you only have one set of application logic to maintain.
>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
> --
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>

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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Lionel B Dyck]

OK - understand now.  I haven't given it that much thought as yet.


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Gord Tomlin
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

On 2020-07-16 04:36, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> No need for it to retain the look/feel of ISPF - just the 
> functionality


Sorry, what I meant is this: once you have developed this web interface, do you 
intend that to be the only interface, or do you still want to be able to use 
the ISPF interface as well? If you intend to keep both, then consider 
decoupling the user interface layer from the application logic. 
Then you only have one set of application logic to maintain.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Lionel B Dyck]

Perhaps to start with and then convert the html to a more pleasing web 
experience.


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Itschak Mugzach
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

Lionel,

Do you want to display the exact copy of the ISPF display in HTML? is this what 
you are looking at (Without the logic parts as )INIT, )REINIT, PROC, etc.)?

ITschak

*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux and 
IBM I **|  *

*|* *Email**: i_mugz...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
*Skype**: ItschakMugzach **|* *Web**: www.Securiteam.co.il  **|*





On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 5:18 PM Gord Tomlin 
wrote:

> On 2020-07-16 04:36, Lionel B Dyck wrote:
> > No need for it to retain the look/feel of ISPF - just the 
> > functionality
>
>
> Sorry, what I meant is this: once you have developed this web 
> interface, do you intend that to be the only interface, or do you 
> still want to be able to use the ISPF interface as well? If you intend 
> to keep both, then consider decoupling the user interface layer from the 
> application logic.
> Then you only have one set of application logic to maintain.
>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
> --
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> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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AW: Web enabled ISPF Application

[Immo]

Hi Lionel,
you won't get a 3270 like interface. You can design the interface whatever
way you like. Only the exchange of mainframe relevant data will be carried
out by the 3270 non-GUI emulation server session. This will have nothing to
do with the display of data. I hope that makes my suggestion clearer.
Regards,
Michael

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von
Lionel B Dyck
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2020 09:19
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Web enabled ISPF Application

Thank you but I'm not interested in a 3270 like interface - I want to
provide a web interface that has the look/feel of the web rather than a
3270.


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Immo
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: Web enabled ISPF Application

Hi Lionel,

I would suggest you implement a server application that communicates with
the frontend (web browser) using HTTP/SSL/TLS and with your backend ISPF
application using a server version of a 3270 terminal emulation running
without a GUI.

You can use an OHIO (Open Host Interface Objects) or HLLAPI supporting
emulation that can be used to program a 3270 emulation communication without
a physical operator. This will require you to newly design and implement the
HTML web browser frontend but you will be able to use your ISPF application
without the need of any changes on the mainframe. All you have to do is to
extract the relevant information from your new web interface and feed the
GUI-less server emulation session by filling the 3270 panel fields and
sending the information to your ISPF application. In the opposite direction
your server emulation session will have to extract the information from your
ISPF panels and feed the web interface to present this information to your
web browser users. Since front- and backend are completely decoupled you can
choose any design for your new web browser frontend.

Since the user has to sign on to your mainframe/ISPF application (each user
will have its own mainframe/TSO telnet session as today), your current
system of user authentication will be sufficient.

Please get in touch in case you're interested. Our company provides an OHIO
enabled Java 3270 terminal emulation that our customers have used to
implement solutions to requirements similar to yours.

Regards,
Michael

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von
Lionel B Dyck
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2020 14:00
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Web enabled ISPF Application

Does anyone have any advice on how to enable a current ISPF application to
support a web interface?

 

Specifically:

 

1.  User authentication
2.  Present a web page similar to the current ISPF panel
3.  Receive input from the web page
4.  Return information to a web page

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:   https://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

 


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Fwd: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Mark Regan]

https://www.planetmainframe.com/2020/07/still-cobol-after-all-these-years/

Regards,

Mark Regan

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Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Roger W Suhr]

I couldn't agree more!

Roger W. Suhr
suhr...@gmail.com



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:41
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Fwd: Still COBOL After All These Years?

https://www.planetmainframe.com/2020/07/still-cobol-after-all-these-years/

Regards,

Mark Regan

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Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Seymour J Metz]

The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.

BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite the 
application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this time 
they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Fwd: Still COBOL After All These Years?

https://secure-web.cisco.com/19k8avmi-YYFlfmZHhyBAdtguogqzS24H_g526jDKwAuDJUdFKvK4b9dP9NcILr6om3tw4RhCCIL8iT9BRoOhdYIdQpvVVzS2c_cErzDaoNHdWoKdxwNo0_LNCkQ5Q9AIihrnv0b2oCTrVYzZ9O23w9QsveuJH0QsJNKF9tSBOF3rS_d_kGctATEyIoNolLRFy1yU9H3ENyZd3ZvmfBWBmUQsXrzE4veTALPgCSsnFBqWR-RJkMc8a0gzcX1geNF4SWwDLIOOB3-CkgncGVl-o3ZPVrOUaxN39tIcdi5zG_BgfrZtYg2jrrDgm8fVbuj1Rig0AbPqTiZp0zGEpV1WRm1fEOzLC-GlMrQmDfLCf-_TPArnN2DxmfqG2EAwazkHfZgpkjUSFmeJBljdrt-Hx5O5ld9E7gz44hwDCvlbcdiiwu32WhgigdlBgVQ99tKX/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetmainframe.com%2F2020%2F07%2Fstill-cobol-after-all-these-years%2F

Regards,

Mark Regan

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ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[John McKown]

This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is enabled
in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can
initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the PKDS,
the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL
OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"

Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do I
need to enable some other option somewhere?

Thanks.

-- 
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Ron Wells]

Your answer to last question is yes...the morons still run corps because they 
are well educated IDIOTS

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.

BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite the 
application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this time 
they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3&data=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%7C4056e364971a49d9090708d829ae8234%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C0%7C63730517679698&sdata=YBf5u%2FhZe29EhQ1W7k5DgD2lutU2drtrLLujINzhk0g%3D&reserved=0


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Fwd: Still COBOL After All These Years?

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F19k8avmi-YYFlfmZHhyBAdtguogqzS24H_g526jDKwAuDJUdFKvK4b9dP9NcILr6om3tw4RhCCIL8iT9BRoOhdYIdQpvVVzS2c_cErzDaoNHdWoKdxwNo0_LNCkQ5Q9AIihrnv0b2oCTrVYzZ9O23w9QsveuJH0QsJNKF9tSBOF3rS_d_kGctATEyIoNolLRFy1yU9H3ENyZd3ZvmfBWBmUQsXrzE4veTALPgCSsnFBqWR-RJkMc8a0gzcX1geNF4SWwDLIOOB3-CkgncGVl-o3ZPVrOUaxN39tIcdi5zG_BgfrZtYg2jrrDgm8fVbuj1Rig0AbPqTiZp0zGEpV1WRm1fEOzLC-GlMrQmDfLCf-_TPArnN2DxmfqG2EAwazkHfZgpkjUSFmeJBljdrt-Hx5O5ld9E7gz44hwDCvlbcdiiwu32WhgigdlBgVQ99tKX%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.planetmainframe.com%252F2020%252F07%252Fstill-cobol-after-all-these-years%252F&data=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%7C4056e364971a49d9090708d829ae8234%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C0%7C63730517679698&sdata=DHLmNj4EKHJZQd8J4R70gIaO2rLR8SlNbPV132DI1cw%3D&reserved=0

Regards,

Mark Regan

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Mark Jacobs]

Looks like CPACF on a z9 doesn't do anything related to public/private keys, 
just symmetric keys. So, likely there's no support for the PKDS on a z9 without 
crypto cards.

Mark Jacobs


Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:45 PM, John McKown  
wrote:

> This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is enabled
> in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can
> initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the PKDS,
> the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL
> OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
>
> Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do I
> need to enable some other option somewhere?
>
> Thanks.
>
> 
>
> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> Maranatha! <><
>
> John McKown
>
> 
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Carmen Vitullo]

It's been a long time since I've INIT'd a PKDS, my config had a co processor 
installed and I had to have CSF running to INIT a PKDS and store the DES master 
key 
did you start CSF? 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "John McKown"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:45:16 PM 
Subject: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS 

This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is enabled 
in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can 
initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the PKDS, 
the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL 
OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION" 

Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do I 
need to enable some other option somewhere? 

Thanks. 

-- 
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. 
Maranatha! <>< 
John McKown 

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z/OS 2.2 documentation

[Allan Staller]

The z/OS 2.2 documentation seems to have disappeared from the z/OS internet 
Library (again!)
The index is there, but the PDF's seem to have disappeared.

Interestingly, the 2.1 doc is still there and functional.

IBM, clean up your act!

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Gibney, Dave]

Same here. My one and only priority 1 issue with IBM. When the z9BC was brand 
new, I defined all 4 crypto cards as accelerators. Couldn't define my master 
keys or get SSL working. (It had been working on the z800-0B1) 
We elected to go forward with the processor upgrade that Saturday. And I called 
IBM, told them priority 1 and that I couldn't go into operation on Monday 
without security.

The answer was to redefine at least one crypto co-processor.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:05 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
> 
> It's been a long time since I've INIT'd a PKDS, my config had a co processor
> installed and I had to have CSF running to INIT a PKDS and store the DES
> master key
> did you start CSF?
> 
> 
> Carmen Vitullo
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "John McKown" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:45:16 PM
> Subject: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
> 
> This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is enabled
> in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can
> initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the PKDS,
> the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL
> OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
> 
> Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do I
> need to enable some other option somewhere?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> 
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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Steve Beaver]

A SEV1 does get a lot of attention 

Sent from my iPhone

I promise you I can’t type or
Spell on any smartphone 

> On Jul 16, 2020, at 14:11, Gibney, Dave  wrote:
> 
> Same here. My one and only priority 1 issue with IBM. When the z9BC was 
> brand new, I defined all 4 crypto cards as accelerators. Couldn't define my 
> master keys or get SSL working. (It had been working on the z800-0B1) 
> We elected to go forward with the processor upgrade that Saturday. And I 
> called IBM, told them priority 1 and that I couldn't go into operation on 
> Monday without security.
> 
> The answer was to redefine at least one crypto co-processor.
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
>> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:05 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
>> 
>> It's been a long time since I've INIT'd a PKDS, my config had a co processor
>> installed and I had to have CSF running to INIT a PKDS and store the DES
>> master key
>> did you start CSF?
>> 
>> 
>> Carmen Vitullo
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> 
>> From: "John McKown" 
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:45:16 PM
>> Subject: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
>> 
>> This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is enabled
>> in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can
>> initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the PKDS,
>> the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL
>> OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
>> 
>> Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do I
>> need to enable some other option somewhere?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> --
>> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
>> Maranatha! <><
>> John McKown
>> 
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> -

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[John McKown]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:56 PM Mark Jacobs <
0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Looks like CPACF on a z9 doesn't do anything related to public/private
> keys, just symmetric keys. So, likely there's no support for the PKDS on a
> z9 without crypto cards.
>

Thanks. I was thinking that, but couldn't find anything. I found a REXX
example code to use CSNBSAE, but I get an RC=12 on that. {sigh}



>
> Mark Jacobs
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>
> GPG Public Key -
> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:45 PM, John McKown <
> john.archie.mck...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is
> enabled
> > in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can
> > initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the
> PKDS,
> > the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL
> > OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
> >
> > Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or
> do I
> > need to enable some other option somewhere?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> > Maranatha! <><
> >
> > John McKown
> >
> > 
> >
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[John McKown]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:04 PM Carmen Vitullo  wrote:

> It's been a long time since I've INIT'd a PKDS, my config had a co
> processor installed and I had to have CSF running to INIT a PKDS and store
> the DES master key
> did you start CSF?
>

Yes.



>
>
> Carmen Vitullo
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "John McKown" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:45:16 PM
> Subject: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
>
> This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is
> enabled
> in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can
> initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the
> PKDS,
> the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL
> OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
>
> Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do
> I
> need to enable some other option somewhere?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>


-- 
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[John McKown]

FWIW, this is what I see when I bring up CSF:

IEF403I CSF - STARTED - TIME=13.13.39
CSFO0230 CKDSN(TSSPV.CSF.CKDS)
CSFO0230 PKDSN(TSSPV.CSF.PKDS)
CSFO0230 COMPAT(NO)
CSFO0230 SSM(YES)
CSFO0230 KEYAUTH(NO)
CSFO0230 CHECKAUTH(NO)
CSFO0230 USERPARM(USERPARM)
CSFO0230 CKTAUTH(YES)
CSFO0230 TRACEENTRY(1)
CSFO0230 REASONCODES(ICSF)
CSFO0166 DEFAULT CICS WAIT LIST WILL BE USED.
CSFM607I A CKDS KEY STORE POLICY IS NOT DEFINED.
CSFM607I A PKDS KEY STORE POLICY IS NOT DEFINED.
CSFM610I GRANULAR KEYLABEL ACCESS CONTROL IS DISABLED.
CSFM611I XCSFKEY EXPORT CONTROL FOR AES IS DISABLED.
CSFM611I XCSFKEY EXPORT CONTROL FOR DES IS DISABLED.
CSFM612I PKA KEY EXTENSIONS CONTROL IS DISABLED.
CSFM101E PKA KEY DATA SET, TSSPV.CSF.PKDS IS NOT INITIALIZED.
CSFM507I CRYPTOGRAPHY - THERE ARE NO CRYPTOGRAPHIC COPROCESSORS
ONLINE.
CSFM508I CRYPTOGRAPHY - THERE ARE NO CRYPTOGRAPHIC ACCELERATORS
ONLINE.
CSFM122I PKA SERVICES WERE NOT ENABLED DURING ICSF INITIALIZATION.
CSFM001I ICSF INITIALIZATION COMPLETE
CSFM126I CRYPTOGRAPHY - FULL CPU-BASED SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE.

I think the following message means/implies no use of PKDS

  CSFM122I PKA SERVICES WERE NOT ENABLED DURING ICSF INITIALIZATION.


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:45 PM John McKown 
wrote:

> This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is
> enabled in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed.
> I can initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the
> PKDS, the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED
> PANEL OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
>
> Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do
> I need to enable some other option somewhere?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>


-- 
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Gibney, Dave]

Resolved in a very few hours. That z9 ran for around 10 years. I'll never have 
another priority 1 issue. We are running on someone else's' z13 now. Any issues 
are their's.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Steve Beaver
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:49 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
> 
> A SEV1 does get a lot of attention
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> I promise you I can’t type or
> Spell on any smartphone
> 
> > On Jul 16, 2020, at 14:11, Gibney, Dave  wrote:
> >
> > Same here. My one and only priority 1 issue with IBM. When the z9BC was
> brand new, I defined all 4 crypto cards as accelerators. Couldn't define my
> master keys or get SSL working. (It had been working on the z800-0B1)
> > We elected to go forward with the processor upgrade that Saturday. And I
> called IBM, told them priority 1 and that I couldn't go into operation on
> Monday without security.
> >
> > The answer was to redefine at least one crypto co-processor.
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> >> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:05 AM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
> >>
> >> It's been a long time since I've INIT'd a PKDS, my config had a co 
> >> processor
> >> installed and I had to have CSF running to INIT a PKDS and store the DES
> >> master key
> >> did you start CSF?
> >>
> >>
> >> Carmen Vitullo
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >>
> >> From: "John McKown" 
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:45:16 PM
> >> Subject: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS
> >>
> >> This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is enabled
> >> in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can
> >> initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the PKDS,
> >> the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED
> PANEL
> >> OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM
> CONFIGURATION"
> >>
> >> Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do
> I
> >> need to enable some other option somewhere?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> --
> >> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> >> Maranatha! <><
> >> John McKown
> >>
> >> --
> >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> > -
> 
> --
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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw]

It only very recently that CPACF does any processing for asymmetric keys.
Remember that if you initialise a CKDS using CPACF, you cannot subsequently 
convert the CKDS to a protected key CKDS.

You could always look at the old Redbook for Crypto n the z9  SG24-7123-00.
😉.

Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Consultant working on contract for
‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John McKown
Sent: 16 July 2020 18:45
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is enabled in 
the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed. I can 
initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the PKDS, the 
panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED PANEL OPTION IS 
NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"

Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do I 
need to enable some other option somewhere?

Thanks.

--
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Rupert Reynolds]

Yup. I'm a C, PL/1, assembly and C bigot myself, but the plain truth is
that COBOL is mostly just a wordier way of doing the same things
 that other languages do. And re-writing, if it isn't done very
thoughfully, tends to make things worse in my experience.

Rupert



On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 18:34, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim
> that rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will
> magically fix problems of underfunding, understaffing and general
> mismanagement.
>
> BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to
> rewrite the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure
> that this time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration
> control?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:41 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Fwd: Still COBOL After All These Years?
>
>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/19k8avmi-YYFlfmZHhyBAdtguogqzS24H_g526jDKwAuDJUdFKvK4b9dP9NcILr6om3tw4RhCCIL8iT9BRoOhdYIdQpvVVzS2c_cErzDaoNHdWoKdxwNo0_LNCkQ5Q9AIihrnv0b2oCTrVYzZ9O23w9QsveuJH0QsJNKF9tSBOF3rS_d_kGctATEyIoNolLRFy1yU9H3ENyZd3ZvmfBWBmUQsXrzE4veTALPgCSsnFBqWR-RJkMc8a0gzcX1geNF4SWwDLIOOB3-CkgncGVl-o3ZPVrOUaxN39tIcdi5zG_BgfrZtYg2jrrDgm8fVbuj1Rig0AbPqTiZp0zGEpV1WRm1fEOzLC-GlMrQmDfLCf-_TPArnN2DxmfqG2EAwazkHfZgpkjUSFmeJBljdrt-Hx5O5ld9E7gz44hwDCvlbcdiiwu32WhgigdlBgVQ99tKX/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetmainframe.com%2F2020%2F07%2Fstill-cobol-after-all-these-years%2F
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan
>
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Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Farley, Peter x23353]

+1 Shmuel !!  

Well said.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

EXTERNAL EMAIL

The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.

BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite the 
application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this time 
they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mark Regan [marktre...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Fwd: Still COBOL After All These Years?

https://secure-web.cisco.com/19k8avmi-YYFlfmZHhyBAdtguogqzS24H_g526jDKwAuDJUdFKvK4b9dP9NcILr6om3tw4RhCCIL8iT9BRoOhdYIdQpvVVzS2c_cErzDaoNHdWoKdxwNo0_LNCkQ5Q9AIihrnv0b2oCTrVYzZ9O23w9QsveuJH0QsJNKF9tSBOF3rS_d_kGctATEyIoNolLRFy1yU9H3ENyZd3ZvmfBWBmUQsXrzE4veTALPgCSsnFBqWR-RJkMc8a0gzcX1geNF4SWwDLIOOB3-CkgncGVl-o3ZPVrOUaxN39tIcdi5zG_BgfrZtYg2jrrDgm8fVbuj1Rig0AbPqTiZp0zGEpV1WRm1fEOzLC-GlMrQmDfLCf-_TPArnN2DxmfqG2EAwazkHfZgpkjUSFmeJBljdrt-Hx5O5ld9E7gz44hwDCvlbcdiiwu32WhgigdlBgVQ99tKX/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetmainframe.com%2F2020%2F07%2Fstill-cobol-after-all-these-years%2F

Regards,

Mark Regan

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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Mark Jacobs]

> I think the following message means/implies no use of PKDS
>
> CSFM122I PKA SERVICES WERE NOT ENABLED DURING ICSF INITIALIZATION.

Looks like it to me too.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, July 16, 2020 4:05 PM, John McKown  
wrote:

> FWIW, this is what I see when I bring up CSF:
>
> IEF403I CSF - STARTED - TIME=13.13.39
> CSFO0230 CKDSN(TSSPV.CSF.CKDS)
> CSFO0230 PKDSN(TSSPV.CSF.PKDS)
> CSFO0230 COMPAT(NO)
> CSFO0230 SSM(YES)
> CSFO0230 KEYAUTH(NO)
> CSFO0230 CHECKAUTH(NO)
> CSFO0230 USERPARM(USERPARM)
> CSFO0230 CKTAUTH(YES)
> CSFO0230 TRACEENTRY(1)
> CSFO0230 REASONCODES(ICSF)
> CSFO0166 DEFAULT CICS WAIT LIST WILL BE USED.
> CSFM607I A CKDS KEY STORE POLICY IS NOT DEFINED.
> CSFM607I A PKDS KEY STORE POLICY IS NOT DEFINED.
> CSFM610I GRANULAR KEYLABEL ACCESS CONTROL IS DISABLED.
> CSFM611I XCSFKEY EXPORT CONTROL FOR AES IS DISABLED.
> CSFM611I XCSFKEY EXPORT CONTROL FOR DES IS DISABLED.
> CSFM612I PKA KEY EXTENSIONS CONTROL IS DISABLED.
> CSFM101E PKA KEY DATA SET, TSSPV.CSF.PKDS IS NOT INITIALIZED.
> CSFM507I CRYPTOGRAPHY - THERE ARE NO CRYPTOGRAPHIC COPROCESSORS
> ONLINE.
> CSFM508I CRYPTOGRAPHY - THERE ARE NO CRYPTOGRAPHIC ACCELERATORS
> ONLINE.
> CSFM122I PKA SERVICES WERE NOT ENABLED DURING ICSF INITIALIZATION.
> CSFM001I ICSF INITIALIZATION COMPLETE
> CSFM126I CRYPTOGRAPHY - FULL CPU-BASED SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE.
>
> I think the following message means/implies no use of PKDS
>
> CSFM122I PKA SERVICES WERE NOT ENABLED DURING ICSF INITIALIZATION.
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:45 PM John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> > This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is
> > enabled in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed.
> > I can initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the
> > PKDS, the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED
> > PANEL OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
> > Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do
> > I need to enable some other option somewhere?
> > Thanks.
> > --
> > People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> > Maranatha! <><
> > John McKown
>
> --
>
> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> Maranatha! <><
>
> John McKown
>
> 
>
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Re: z/OS 2.2 documentation

[Charles Mills]

It's there for me (or am I not understanding)?

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ieaa700/toc.htm
 
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ieaa700/abend.htm
 

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Allan Staller
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: z/OS 2.2 documentation

The z/OS 2.2 documentation seems to have disappeared from the z/OS internet 
Library (again!)
The index is there, but the PDF's seem to have disappeared.

Interestingly, the 2.1 doc is still there and functional.

IBM, clean up your act!

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Re: z/OS 2.2 documentation

[Tom Brennan]

Maybe he's talking about this link, which is my old bookmark to the pdf's:

https://www-01.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r2-pdf-download?OpenDocument

The index is there, but if I click to look at a pdf file, I get a 404 error.

On 7/16/2020 4:30 PM, Charles Mills wrote:

It's there for me (or am I not understanding)?

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ieaa700/toc.htm
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ieaa700/abend.htm

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Allan Staller
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: z/OS 2.2 documentation

The z/OS 2.2 documentation seems to have disappeared from the z/OS internet 
Library (again!)
The index is there, but the PDF's seem to have disappeared.

Interestingly, the 2.1 doc is still there and functional.

IBM, clean up your act!

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Re: z/OS 2.2 documentation

[Charles Mills]

Ah!

The individual PDF's *are* there, but that index is bad.

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/iea3a310.pdf 

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 5:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS 2.2 documentation

Maybe he's talking about this link, which is my old bookmark to the pdf's:

https://www-01.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zosv2r2-pdf-download?OpenDocument

The index is there, but if I click to look at a pdf file, I get a 404 error.

On 7/16/2020 4:30 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
> It's there for me (or am I not understanding)?
> 
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ieaa700/toc.htm
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.ieaa700/abend.htm
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Allan Staller
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:09 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: z/OS 2.2 documentation
> 
> The z/OS 2.2 documentation seems to have disappeared from the z/OS internet 
> Library (again!)
> The index is there, but the PDF's seem to have disappeared.
> 
> Interestingly, the 2.1 doc is still there and functional.
> 
> IBM, clean up your act!
> 
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and 
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not 
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, 
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses 
> in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred 
> errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or 
> its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely 
> those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of 
> HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, 
> disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message 
> without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is 
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete 
> it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or 
> attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.
> 
> 
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Re: ICSF -- initializing a PKDS

[Greg Boyd]

You must have a CCA Coprocessor to initialize a PKDS.  From the current SPG, 
for HCR77D1 (SC14-7507-09, p. 431), Appendix F:
If only the CPACF feature is installed, you will not be able to:
1. Set master keys.
2. Initialize the PKDS.
3. Store keys in the PKDS.

That has been true for a long time.  
You can't have a clear key only PKDS.  I guess if you are using your security 
product database as your certificate repository, then your private keys are in 
a clear key repository.

You can have a clear key only CKDS if you don't have a CCA Coprocessor, but as 
Lennie points out, that is a one-way path.  You can't later add Crypto Express 
cards and migrate the keys in the CKDS.  That option is not available for the 
PKDS.

And the new support on the z15 for RSA keys is clear key only.  The CPACF will 
only work with the public key part of the key pair.
Greg 
Mainframe Crypto
www.mainframecrypto.com


On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:05:15 -0500, John McKown  
wrote:

>FWIW, this is what I see when I bring up CSF:
>
>IEF403I CSF - STARTED - TIME=13.13.39
>CSFO0230 CKDSN(TSSPV.CSF.CKDS)
>CSFO0230 PKDSN(TSSPV.CSF.PKDS)
>CSFO0230 COMPAT(NO)
>CSFO0230 SSM(YES)
>CSFO0230 KEYAUTH(NO)
>CSFO0230 CHECKAUTH(NO)
>CSFO0230 USERPARM(USERPARM)
>CSFO0230 CKTAUTH(YES)
>CSFO0230 TRACEENTRY(1)
>CSFO0230 REASONCODES(ICSF)
>CSFO0166 DEFAULT CICS WAIT LIST WILL BE USED.
>CSFM607I A CKDS KEY STORE POLICY IS NOT DEFINED.
>CSFM607I A PKDS KEY STORE POLICY IS NOT DEFINED.
>CSFM610I GRANULAR KEYLABEL ACCESS CONTROL IS DISABLED.
>CSFM611I XCSFKEY EXPORT CONTROL FOR AES IS DISABLED.
>CSFM611I XCSFKEY EXPORT CONTROL FOR DES IS DISABLED.
>CSFM612I PKA KEY EXTENSIONS CONTROL IS DISABLED.
>CSFM101E PKA KEY DATA SET, TSSPV.CSF.PKDS IS NOT INITIALIZED.
>CSFM507I CRYPTOGRAPHY - THERE ARE NO CRYPTOGRAPHIC COPROCESSORS
>ONLINE.
>CSFM508I CRYPTOGRAPHY - THERE ARE NO CRYPTOGRAPHIC ACCELERATORS
>ONLINE.
>CSFM122I PKA SERVICES WERE NOT ENABLED DURING ICSF INITIALIZATION.
>CSFM001I ICSF INITIALIZATION COMPLETE
>CSFM126I CRYPTOGRAPHY - FULL CPU-BASED SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE.
>
>I think the following message means/implies no use of PKDS
>
>  CSFM122I PKA SERVICES WERE NOT ENABLED DURING ICSF INITIALIZATION.
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:45 PM John McKown 
>wrote:
>
>> This is for a very old z/OS 1.12 system running on a z9BC. CPACF is
>> enabled in the machine. There are no cryptographic coprocessors installed.
>> I can initialize the CKDS using the panel. But when I try to initialize the
>> PKDS, the panel displays "OPTION NOT ACTIVE". PF1 displays 'THE SELECTED
>> PANEL OPTION IS NOT AVAILABLE WITH YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM CONFIGURATION"
>>
>> Is this normal? Can I not use the PKDS on a system with only CPACF? Or do
>> I need to enable some other option somewhere?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
>> Maranatha! <><
>> John McKown
>>
>
>
>--
>People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
>Maranatha! <><
>John McKown
>
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Application necessities was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:

>The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
>rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
>problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.

One thing that could help is changing many shops that are still coding
as if it were COBOL 74 (COBOL/VS) even if they are on the latest
Enterprise COBOL.
>
>BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite 
>the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this 
>time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?

And will they have an adequate test mechanism for both online and
batch?  The hardest part of my job where I worked was getting a
coordinated set of test data that I could use as a base.  I also have
come to the conclusion that the way systems should be developed is the
helps and user documentation would come before code and form the
specifications for the system.  In some of the newer development
methodologies, maybe that could be concurrent.  All fixes would be
either changes to the code to match the help and documentation or the
help and documentation to match the code.  Technical writers should be
a part of the development teams.  A large portion of the coding
community including me is poor at writing.

Clark Morris

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OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:

>The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
>rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
>problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.

Looking at some of the comment I have seen in Assembler code including
my own, COBOL code is close to the syntax of those comments.

Clark Morris 
>
>BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite 
>the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this 
>time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?

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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Seymour J Metz]

77
88


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Clark Morris [cfmt...@uniserve.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: OOBOL and English  was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:

>The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
>rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
>problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.

Looking at some of the comment I have seen in Assembler code including
my own, COBOL code is close to the syntax of those comments.

Clark Morris
>
>BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite 
>the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this 
>time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?

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Re: Application necessities was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Seymour J Metz]

Be careful what you ask for. A good technical writer is a joy forever; a bad 
one, not so much. Clear and lucid prose is good, but only to the extent that it 
accurately describes the product.

One of my firm convictions is that software testing should include people who 
don't know how it works. They will test things that you didn't anticipate. They 
will test your quaint belief that the messages are self documenting, or that 
the explanations in the help and the manual are adequate.

Regression tests are less than a century old; you can't expect every 
organization to know about them. Likewise code and design reviews.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Clark Morris [cfmt...@uniserve.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Application necessities was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:

>The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
>rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
>problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.

One thing that could help is changing many shops that are still coding
as if it were COBOL 74 (COBOL/VS) even if they are on the latest
Enterprise COBOL.
>
>BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite 
>the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this 
>time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?

And will they have an adequate test mechanism for both online and
batch?  The hardest part of my job where I worked was getting a
coordinated set of test data that I could use as a base.  I also have
come to the conclusion that the way systems should be developed is the
helps and user documentation would come before code and form the
specifications for the system.  In some of the newer development
methodologies, maybe that could be concurrent.  All fixes would be
either changes to the code to match the help and documentation or the
help and documentation to match the code.  Technical writers should be
a part of the development teams.  A large portion of the coding
community including me is poor at writing.

Clark Morris

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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 02:27:24 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>77
>88
>
>
>From: Clark Morris
>Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:16 PM
>
>Looking at some of the comment I have seen in Assembler code including
>my own, COBOL code is close to the syntax of those comments.
>
If the Assembler programmer comments his programs in COBOL
pseudocode that's surely true.

-- cil

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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Tony Thigpen]

I agree with Clark.

In addition, even the best language can have it's best features ignored 
by programmers so that others can claim it's the language's fault.


I have seen both REXX and C code that was totally unreadable due to the 
programmer putting 24 nested functions in one statement. I have seen 
COBOL code that is unreadable because the programmer used cryptic 
variable names are very complex IF comparisons. I even saw one COBOL 
program where the variables were all in Spanish in a shop in North 
Alabama where there was only one programmer that spoke Spanish within 
100 miles. Totally unreadable by the guy that followed him (me).


Don't blame the language. Blame the management that allowed programmers 
to write code that was not readable by the next guy.


I used to work for a large software development firm that had strict 
standards. This was before even dial-up. Most new programmers fussed 
about the programming standards. Until, they got a support call at 3am 
and had to debug a program over the phone with the customer reading the 
COBOL source to them. Taking a little longer to code, and typing a 
little more, cost very little but added a lot of ease to the back end 
when it came to support.


Tony Thigpen

Clark Morris wrote on 7/16/20 10:16 PM:

[Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:


The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.


Looking at some of the comment I have seen in Assembler code including
my own, COBOL code is close to the syntax of those comments.

Clark Morris


BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite the 
application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this time 
they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?


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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Wayne Bickerdike]

COBOL fails at MOVE. It's a COPY. Maybe they should have said REPLICATE,
since COPY was already taken. So, not good English.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:46 PM Tony Thigpen  wrote:

> I agree with Clark.
>
> In addition, even the best language can have it's best features ignored
> by programmers so that others can claim it's the language's fault.
>
> I have seen both REXX and C code that was totally unreadable due to the
> programmer putting 24 nested functions in one statement. I have seen
> COBOL code that is unreadable because the programmer used cryptic
> variable names are very complex IF comparisons. I even saw one COBOL
> program where the variables were all in Spanish in a shop in North
> Alabama where there was only one programmer that spoke Spanish within
> 100 miles. Totally unreadable by the guy that followed him (me).
>
> Don't blame the language. Blame the management that allowed programmers
> to write code that was not readable by the next guy.
>
> I used to work for a large software development firm that had strict
> standards. This was before even dial-up. Most new programmers fussed
> about the programming standards. Until, they got a support call at 3am
> and had to debug a program over the phone with the customer reading the
> COBOL source to them. Taking a little longer to code, and typing a
> little more, cost very little but added a lot of ease to the back end
> when it came to support.
>
> Tony Thigpen
>
> Clark Morris wrote on 7/16/20 10:16 PM:
> > [Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> > sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:
> >
> >> The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim
> that rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will
> magically fix problems of underfunding, understaffing and general
> mismanagement.
> >
> > Looking at some of the comment I have seen in Assembler code including
> > my own, COBOL code is close to the syntax of those comments.
> >
> > Clark Morris
> >>
> >> BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to
> rewrite the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure
> that this time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration
> control?
> >
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> >
>
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-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Tony Thigpen]

By your statements, MVC also fails.

From the start, MOVE in the programming world has been equated to what 
you are calling a COPY.


But, you have me curious.

What language uses MOVE as a destructive copy? (And overlapping operands 
is not a valid example.)


And, what mainstream languages use COPY instead of MOVE.


Tony Thigpen

Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/16/20 11:01 PM:

COBOL fails at MOVE. It's a COPY. Maybe they should have said REPLICATE,
since COPY was already taken. So, not good English.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:46 PM Tony Thigpen  wrote:


I agree with Clark.

In addition, even the best language can have it's best features ignored
by programmers so that others can claim it's the language's fault.

I have seen both REXX and C code that was totally unreadable due to the
programmer putting 24 nested functions in one statement. I have seen
COBOL code that is unreadable because the programmer used cryptic
variable names are very complex IF comparisons. I even saw one COBOL
program where the variables were all in Spanish in a shop in North
Alabama where there was only one programmer that spoke Spanish within
100 miles. Totally unreadable by the guy that followed him (me).

Don't blame the language. Blame the management that allowed programmers
to write code that was not readable by the next guy.

I used to work for a large software development firm that had strict
standards. This was before even dial-up. Most new programmers fussed
about the programming standards. Until, they got a support call at 3am
and had to debug a program over the phone with the customer reading the
COBOL source to them. Taking a little longer to code, and typing a
little more, cost very little but added a lot of ease to the back end
when it came to support.

Tony Thigpen

Clark Morris wrote on 7/16/20 10:16 PM:

[Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:


The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim

that rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will
magically fix problems of underfunding, understaffing and general
mismanagement.


Looking at some of the comment I have seen in Assembler code including
my own, COBOL code is close to the syntax of those comments.

Clark Morris


BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to

rewrite the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure
that this time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration
control?


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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Seymour J Metz]

I once saw a PL/I programmer that somebody had compressed by removing all white 
space not required by the language. I never understood why anybody would do 
such a thing to a poor inoffensive program that never did any harm to anybody. 

I don't like COBOL, and the claim that it is English-like is ridiculous, but to 
blame the language for lack of documentation, lack of configuration control, 
skinflint management and rampant understaffing is ludicrous. Nor is it rational 
to judge the language by the CODASYL definition; it's changed a lot. Is it self 
documenting? No. Does it prevent the programmer from writing helpful comments? 
Also no.

The same with C. I dislike the language for many reasons, but I have founds 
myself defending the idiom "for(;;)" from what I considered unenlightened 
criticism.

On the flip side, I like REXX, but that didn't stop me from writing an article 
on it's pitfalls and how to avoid them. I even gave a nod to the SIGNAL ON 
NOVALUE contingent, although I disagree with them.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

I agree with Clark.

In addition, even the best language can have it's best features ignored
by programmers so that others can claim it's the language's fault.

I have seen both REXX and C code that was totally unreadable due to the
programmer putting 24 nested functions in one statement. I have seen
COBOL code that is unreadable because the programmer used cryptic
variable names are very complex IF comparisons. I even saw one COBOL
program where the variables were all in Spanish in a shop in North
Alabama where there was only one programmer that spoke Spanish within
100 miles. Totally unreadable by the guy that followed him (me).

Don't blame the language. Blame the management that allowed programmers
to write code that was not readable by the next guy.

I used to work for a large software development firm that had strict
standards. This was before even dial-up. Most new programmers fussed
about the programming standards. Until, they got a support call at 3am
and had to debug a program over the phone with the customer reading the
COBOL source to them. Taking a little longer to code, and typing a
little more, cost very little but added a lot of ease to the back end
when it came to support.

Tony Thigpen

Clark Morris wrote on 7/16/20 10:16 PM:
> [Default] On 16 Jul 2020 10:34:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:
>
>> The claim that COBOL is English like is every bit as bogus as the claim that 
>> rewriting existing COBOL applications in another language will magically fix 
>> problems of underfunding, understaffing and general mismanagement.
>
> Looking at some of the comment I have seen in Assembler code including
> my own, COBOL code is close to the syntax of those comments.
>
> Clark Morris
>>
>> BTW, when the language du jour is out of fashion, will they want to rewrite 
>> the application again, with the same pretext? And will they ensure that this 
>> time they have adequate documentation and adequate configuration control?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Tom Brennan]

On 7/16/2020 9:12 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
I once saw a PL/I programmer that somebody had compressed 
Ouch!  Was that common practice?  If so I'm glad I never coded anything 
in PL/I  :)


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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[Seymour J Metz]

Had it been a common practice you would have seen Team PL/I carrying pitchforks 
and torches, chanting "Unclean! Unclean!". Every PL/I programmer that I know 
would consider it an abomination.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tom 
Brennan [t...@tombrennansoftware.com]
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

On 7/16/2020 9:12 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I once saw a PL/I programmer that somebody had compressed
Ouch!  Was that common practice?  If so I'm glad I never coded anything
in PL/I  :)

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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[David Crayford]

On 2020-07-17 11:12 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote:

By your statements, MVC also fails.

From the start, MOVE in the programming world has been equated to what 
you are calling a COPY.


I beg to differ! For the programming languages I code in use there is a 
huge difference between copy and move semantics.




But, you have me curious.

What language uses MOVE as a destructive copy? (And overlapping 
operands is not a valid example.)


And, what mainstream languages use COPY instead of MOVE. 


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Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?

[David Crayford]

On 2020-07-17 11:12 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote:

And, what mainstream languages use COPY instead of MOVE.


C, C++, C#, Java, Python, Ruby, etc, etc.

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