Re: 950K IO max on Z15 LPAR was Re: AWS is down.

[Attila Fogarasi]

zHPF has finally enabled FICON to catch up to the (high) performance of the
underlying fibre channel (which non-z uses), and still keep the benefits of
FICON -- which are substantial.  It isn't just performance.  For z15 IO is
ROI competitive with best of breed cloud servers, and beats them with the
other characteristics.  Sadly these studies haven't had wide publicity,
exposure on IBM-Main is hardly helpful.   Two decades of bad FICON is a
hard road to straighten.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:01 PM kekronbekron <
02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Found it:
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/node/6355789
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/system/files/inline-files/IBM_z15_FEx16SA_Performance_2020.pdf
>
> - KB
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 9:28 AM, kekronbekron <
> 02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi Attila,
> >
> > For the curious, a link to the study will be helpful.
> >
> > Is it in TechDocs?
> >
> > -   KB
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 9:05 AM, Attila Fogarasi
> fogar...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > I don't know about that particular benchmark, but IBM has a published
> z15
> > >
> > > zHPF benchmark which does 300k+ IO/sec over a SINGLE FEx16SA channel
> (using
> > >
> > > multiple ports). That was published almost 2 years ago (jan 2020).
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 2:18 PM Clark F. Morris <
> > >
> > > 03b2c618bdfc-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 02:21:28 +, Seymour J Metz sme...@gmu.edu
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Going from 5 milliseconds to one tenth of that is certainly quite
> > > > >
> > > > > significant, and I have no doubt that one day we will get to the
> > > > >
> > > > > performance that BJ claimed, but we're not there yet.
> > > >
> > > > When it is claimed a Z15 LPA maxes out at 950K I-Os, how many
> > > >
> > > > concurrent I-Os over how many paths are involved?
> > > >
> > > > Clark Morris
> > > >
> > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > >
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> IBM-MAIN
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Re: AWS is down.

[Seymour J Metz]

Keep in mind that what IBM is discussing is throughput rather than the duration 
of a single I/O. A typical installation will be doing I/O to a lot of DASD 
volumes concurrently. When you have a lot of concurrent I/O requests on the 
same channel, the effect of, e.g., rotational delay, cache miss, is mostly on 
duration rather than on throughput.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
kekronbekron [02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 10:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AWS is down.

Hey Patrick,

Please share some info about what enables this, to the extent that you can.
I read in some storage blog that Infinidat for example does 30-40 mics on 
average.
With CFs being 2-10 mics, and zHyperLink being ~20 mics, 30-40 for the average 
I/O seems pretty good.

The 400-500 mics that you said, is that for a standard IBM/EMC storage box with 
zHPF?
If so, with any more tune-ups, or just the above?

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 6:47 AM, patrickfalcone7 
<012526080649-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Don't like to get into these but I have respect for Seymour and would ask you 
> not to fan flames. While I understand Seymour's response he didn't 
> necessarily state anything but questioned the possibility.Seymour I did not 
> mean to put you in any unnecessary positions and apologize if I did. My post 
> was only to state what metrics I've seen in the last couple of years. And 
> you'd be surprised at how many might not know that it is possible to get mics 
> on average with even backleveled kits.When we did our last array upgrade we 
> went from 4 mills to around 400 to 500 mics. To me that is significant and 
> ended up being so. I saw workload shifts in time due to the significance of 
> the array swap.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>  Original message From: Bill Johnson 
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu Date: 12/8/21 4:07 PM 
> (GMT-05:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AWS is down. LOLOLOLOL, 
> I love when the so called “experts” are proven wrong.Sent from Yahoo Mail for 
> iPhoneOn Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 4:04 PM, patrickfalcone7 
> 012526080649-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:Hope you are well. FWIW 
> I've seem mics for sometime but mostly under favorable conditions. But lately 
> have found mics on average from under 5 on avg. mills.with somewhat newer 
> array technology on < z15 CPCs.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy 
> smartphone Original message From: Seymour J Metz 
> sme...@gmu.edu Date: 12/8/21 9:05 AM (GMT-05:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: Re: AWS is down. On what machine do you complete I/O in a 
> microsecond?--Shmuel (Seymour J.) 
> Metzhttp://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3From: 
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bill 
> Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]Sent: Wednesday, 
> December 8, 2021 7:31 AMTo: ibm-m...@listserv.ua.EDUSubject: Re: AWS is 
> down.I see someone who has never worked in health care where the mainframe 
> processes each drug prescribed and checks for drug interactions in a 
> microsecond. Yes, people die if the mainframe isn’t available. It’s also why 
> there are plenty of pharmacies open 24 hours and why hospitals have 
> pharmacies.Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhoneOn Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 
> 1:33 AM, kekronbekron 02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu 
> wrote:Critical infra in some places, sure, not everyone is denying that.At 
> the moment of urgent need, do people really buy something and wait for MF to 
> finish processing, for them to be then allowed to continue breathing?What 
> happened to the interim stages (logstics etc).It sounds as though failure to 
> buy/order something immediately is going to lead to their death... is what's 
> being said.Sounds pretty privileged to me.It also sounds like it's assumed 
> that mainframes will last 500 years, no?Did the world not exist before 
> 1960s?Did people automatically die before 1960s because they didn't have 
> MF?Are people and organizations not allowed to be wrong (to their own 
> detriment), etc.Are we sure that 100% of all information out there is truth, 
> apart from this announcement that AWS wants to replace MF?We can all like MF, 
> but don't need to act like it's the sole saviour of humanity.Again that means 
> that all technology that evolved since then is a complete waste of time and 
> people's efforts.Sounds pretty delusional to me... just to convey that MFs 
> are good servers.- KB‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐On Wednesday, December 
> 8th, 2021 at 10:00 AM, Bill Johnson 
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:> AWS had a large

Re: 950K IO max on Z15 LPAR was Re: AWS is down.

[Seymour J Metz]

How does that compare to the throughput for FCP?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Attila Fogarasi [fogar...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 10:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: 950K IO max on Z15 LPAR was Re: AWS is down.

I don't know about that particular benchmark, but IBM has a published z15
zHPF benchmark which does 300k+ IO/sec over a SINGLE FEx16SA channel (using
multiple ports).  That was published almost 2 years ago (jan 2020).

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 2:18 PM Clark F. Morris <
03b2c618bdfc-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 02:21:28 +, Seymour J Metz 
> wrote:
>
> >Going from 5 milliseconds to one tenth of that is certainly quite
> significant, and I have no doubt that one day we will get to the
> performance that BJ claimed, but we're not there yet.
>
> When it is claimed a Z15 LPA maxes out at 950K I-Os, how many
> concurrent I-Os over how many paths are involved?
>
> Clark Morris
>
> --
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Re: AWS is down.

[Cameron Conacher]

And a very Merry Christmas to all.

Thanks,

…….Cameron


Vacation Alert: I will be OOO from December 9th 2021 though to January 4th 2022 
inclusive.




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Joe 
Monk
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 10:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: AWS is down.

Gents, please. No body cares.


Joe

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021, 22:05 Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
 wrote:

> No, I quoted IBM I/O claims. Of the mainframe. Even cut & pasted from the
> IBM manual. But, we all know you like to always think you’re right. Parsing
> stuff is your narcissist MO, looking for little things that really aren’t
> even part of the original reason for the thread. The fact is the mainframe
> is far more secure, way more available, faster, and unlikely to lose to the
> cloud vendors any of the real lucrative critical business. AWS holds my
> photos, for free. And I’m fine them not being available now & then. IBM’s
> mainframe business will be around far longer than you and I will be alive.
> Making sure your financial information is secure and always available,
> making sure your health care and pharmaceutical information is HIPAA
> protected and available for any emergencies that arrive, making sure your
> insurance claims are paid in a timely manner, making air reservations less
> stressful than air travel itself, allowing major retailers the ability to
> process the billions of transactions they require daily. IBM fanboy? Hell
> yes.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 9:18 PM, Seymour J Metz 
> mailto:sme...@gmu.edu>>
> wrote:
>
> You started saying 1 microsecond and retreated to 4, which is still a long
> way from 500. And you're a falure as a telepath; you don't have a clue what
> I'm thinking.
>
> My MO is to act as if facts matter.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Bill Johnson 
> [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 8:59 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: AWS is down.
>
> “Four microseconds is also nonsense”, is exactly what Metz said. He STATED
> that. I knew exactly what game he was playing from the very start. It’s his
> MO. Narcissism is what narcissists must do. I’m here to get facts, not play
> games trying to be friends. Knowing who the experts are is more important
> than the nonsense some people post or how often they post. It’s really
> pretty simple. You want zOS facts, Relson is the guy. You want SMP/E
> expertise, Kurt Q is the oracle.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 8:18 PM, patrickfalcone7 <
> 012526080649-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>  wrote:
>
> Don't like to get into these but I have respect for Seymour and would ask
> you not to fan flames. While I understand Seymour's response he didn't
> necessarily state anything but questioned the possibility.Seymour I did not
> mean to put you in any unnecessary positions and apologize if I did. My
> post was only to state what metrics I've seen in the last couple of years.
> And you'd be surprised at how many might not know that it is possible to
> get mics on average with even backleveled kits.When we did our last array
> upgrade we went from 4 mills to around 400 to 500 mics. To me that is
> significant and ended up being so. I saw workload shifts in time due to the
> significance of the array swap.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy
> smartphone
>  Original message From: Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>  Date: 12/8/21 4:07 PM
> (GMT-05:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: Re: AWS is down.
> LOLOLOLOL, I love when the so called “experts” are proven wrong.Sent from
> Yahoo Mail for iPhoneOn Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 4:04 PM,
> patrickfalcone7 
> <012526080649-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> wrote:Hope you are well. FWIW I've seem mics for sometime but mostly under
> favorable conditions. But lately have found mics on average from under 5 on
> avg. mills.with somewhat newer array technology on < z15 CPCs.Sent from my
> Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone Original message From:
> Seymour J Metz mailto:sme...@gmu.edu>> Date: 12/8/21 9:05 AM 
> (GMT-05:00) To:
> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AWS is 
> down.

Re: 950K IO max on Z15 LPAR was Re: AWS is down.

[Seymour J Metz]

Ever since the advent of the 2880, there has been significant overlap even on a 
single channel. I don't find 950K/s to be at all surprising.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Clark F. Morris [03b2c618bdfc-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 10:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: 950K IO max on Z15 LPAR was Re: AWS is down.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 02:21:28 +, Seymour J Metz 
wrote:

>Going from 5 milliseconds to one tenth of that is certainly quite significant, 
>and I have no doubt that one day we will get to the performance that BJ 
>claimed, but we're not there yet.

When it is claimed a Z15 LPA maxes out at 950K I-Os, how many
concurrent I-Os over how many paths are involved?

Clark Morris

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Re: AWS is down.

[Bill Johnson]

 Keep in mind this thread is about AWS (the magnificent) having an outage, that 
if it happened in a mainframe shop, would be considered terrible and 
unacceptable. In fact, AWS (and Azure/Google clouds) are down fairly often. 
There are people on the internet who keep track of these things. Whereas the 
mainframes at large companies in which downtime can cost millions of dollars 
and yes even lives almost never goes down. But rest assured, the media would 
overemphasize the mainframe outage on the "legacy" platform as if people are 
still running mainframe technology from 50 years ago. Because heck, as we all 
know, only the new stuff gets investment dollars and is considered 21st century 
tech! (LOL) Now prepare yourself for a walk down memory lane. And, this is 
likely my last post on this thread. (hurray) Because I have actual work to do 
and more pleasurable and relaxing distractions. However, I do reserve the right 
to rescind my last statement should I deem fit.

On Thursday, December 9, 2021, 07:00:53 AM EST, Seymour J Metz 
 wrote:  
 
 Keep in mind that what IBM is discussing is throughput rather than the 
duration of a single I/O. A typical installation will be doing I/O to a lot of 
DASD volumes concurrently. When you have a lot of concurrent I/O requests on 
the same channel, the effect of, e.g., rotational delay, cache miss, is mostly 
on duration rather than on throughput.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
kekronbekron [02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 10:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AWS is down.

Hey Patrick,

Please share some info about what enables this, to the extent that you can.
I read in some storage blog that Infinidat for example does 30-40 mics on 
average.
With CFs being 2-10 mics, and zHyperLink being ~20 mics, 30-40 for the average 
I/O seems pretty good.

The 400-500 mics that you said, is that for a standard IBM/EMC storage box with 
zHPF?
If so, with any more tune-ups, or just the above?

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 6:47 AM, patrickfalcone7 
<012526080649-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Don't like to get into these but I have respect for Seymour and would ask you 
> not to fan flames. While I understand Seymour's response he didn't 
> necessarily state anything but questioned the possibility.Seymour I did not 
> mean to put you in any unnecessary positions and apologize if I did. My post 
> was only to state what metrics I've seen in the last couple of years. And 
> you'd be surprised at how many might not know that it is possible to get mics 
> on average with even backleveled kits.When we did our last array upgrade we 
> went from 4 mills to around 400 to 500 mics. To me that is significant and 
> ended up being so. I saw workload shifts in time due to the significance of 
> the array swap.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>  Original message From: Bill Johnson 
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu Date: 12/8/21 4:07 PM 
> (GMT-05:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AWS is down. LOLOLOLOL, 
> I love when the so called “experts” are proven wrong.Sent from Yahoo Mail for 
> iPhoneOn Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 4:04 PM, patrickfalcone7 
> 012526080649-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:Hope you are well. FWIW 
> I've seem mics for sometime but mostly under favorable conditions. But lately 
> have found mics on average from under 5 on avg. mills.with somewhat newer 
> array technology on < z15 CPCs.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy 
> smartphone Original message From: Seymour J Metz 
> sme...@gmu.edu Date: 12/8/21 9:05 AM (GMT-05:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: Re: AWS is down. On what machine do you complete I/O in a 
> microsecond?--Shmuel (Seymour J.) 
> Metzhttp://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3From: 
> IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bill 
> Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]Sent: Wednesday, 
> December 8, 2021 7:31 AMTo: ibm-m...@listserv.ua.EDUSubject: Re: AWS is 
> down.I see someone who has never worked in health care where the mainframe 
> processes each drug prescribed and checks for drug interactions in a 
> microsecond. Yes, people die if the mainframe isn’t available. It’s also why 
> there are plenty of pharmacies open 24 hours and why hospitals have 
> pharmacies.Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhoneOn Wednesday, December 8, 2021, 
> 1:33 AM, kekronbekron 02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu 
> wrote:Critical infra in some places, sure, not everyone is denying that.At 
> the moment of urgent need, do people really buy something and wait for MF to 
> finish processing, for them to be then allowed to continue 

Re: AWS is down.

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

>You said: "...  Did the world not exist before 1960s?
Did people automatically die before 1960s because they didn't have MF? 
..."


Nobody died because of computer failure in the times before computers.
Nobody died because of gun in the times before guns existed.
Nobody died in airplane crash before aircrafts.
etc.

However nowadays we rely on many things, some of them are computers.
Sadly, there are victims of ransomware attacks. Yes, people died.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: [EXTERNAL] 950K IO max on Z15 LPAR was Re: AWS is down.

[Pommier, Rex]

Hi Clark,

It appears as though we actually are getting close to the 1 microsecond value.  
Of course I can't find it today but yesterday when I saw the *ahem* discussion 
between Seymour and Bill, I went searching because I didn't think the industry 
was anywhere near microsecond speeds.  An article I found from 2 years ago said 
that IBM had achieved about 5 microseconds using zHyperlink.  Today the closest 
I could find to that article was in an IBM blog stating the DS8900 arrays are 
delivering as low as 18 microsecond latency.  So we're a lot closer to the 
elusive microsecond than I had imagined.  Now, when this will make it to the 
real world is anybody's guess.  :-)

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Clark F. Morris
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 9:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] 950K IO max on Z15 LPAR was Re: AWS is down.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 02:21:28 +, Seymour J Metz 
wrote:

>Going from 5 milliseconds to one tenth of that is certainly quite significant, 
>and I have no doubt that one day we will get to the performance that BJ 
>claimed, but we're not there yet.

When it is claimed a Z15 LPA maxes out at 950K I-Os, how many concurrent I-Os 
over how many paths are involved?

Clark Morris 

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Re: AWS is down.

[Mark Regan]

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3644370/aws-outage-hit-collaboration-vendors-highlights-risk-of-cloud-based-tools.html

Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR, EN80tg
CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1979 active; 1979-1991, reserves; including two
years with the Ohio Air National Guard)
Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017 (z/OS Network Software Consultant)
Email:marktre...@gmail.com
LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan


On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 8:54 AM Radoslaw Skorupka 
wrote:

>  >You said: "...  Did the world not exist before 1960s?
> > Did people automatically die before 1960s because they didn't have MF?
> > ..."
>
> Nobody died because of computer failure in the times before computers.
> Nobody died because of gun in the times before guns existed.
> Nobody died in airplane crash before aircrafts.
> etc.
>
> However nowadays we rely on many things, some of them are computers.
> Sadly, there are victims of ransomware attacks. Yes, people died.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: AWS is down.

[Ed Jaffe]

On 12/8/2021 5:40 AM, Doug wrote:
I have watched this thread, and there is simply one thing most of us 
are missing.
This is a MF forum. For years, we have been subjected to "oh using the 
(insert new technology) is so much better than these old obsolete 
mainframes." And we have universally warned not to drink the Kool-Aid.


So excuse us a bit of satisfaction when the one of these "master of 
the universe" technologies has a problem that renders it mortal, like 
these old, obsolete mainframes.


Absolutely justifiable, especially when the platform being derided has 
*explicitly* positioned themselves as your MORTAL ENEMY:


https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/cloud/aws-out-kill-mainframes


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Replacement for TM instruction

[Ituriel do Neto]

Hi all,
I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit of a 
storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an immediate.

I have something like this :
A       DC    X'1C'B       DC    X'08'
         TM    A,x'08'         JO    X
But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the comparison, 
because the content of B may change.So, i would need something like this:
         TM  A,B
How can i do that ?
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards

Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer



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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Hobart Spitz]

XC

OREXXMan
Would you rather pass data in move mode (*nix piping) or locate mode
(Pipes) or via disk (JCL)?  Why do you think you rarely see *nix commands
with more than a dozen filters, while Pipelines specifications are commonly
over 100s of stages, and 1000s of stages are not uncommon.
REXX is the new C.


On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:11 PM Ituriel do Neto <
03427ec2837d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit
> of a storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an
> immediate.
>
> I have something like this :
> A   DCX'1C'B   DCX'08'
>  TMA,x'08' JOX
> But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the
> comparison, because the content of B may change.So, i would need something
> like this:
>  TM  A,B
> How can i do that ?
> Thanks in advance.
> Best Regards
>
> Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Hobart Spitz]

Opps:  NC


OREXXMan
Would you rather pass data in move mode (*nix piping) or locate mode
(Pipes) or via disk (JCL)?  Why do you think you rarely see *nix commands
with more than a dozen filters, while Pipelines specifications are commonly
over 100s of stages, and 1000s of stages are not uncommon.
REXX is the new C.


On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:15 PM Hobart Spitz  wrote:

> XC
>
> OREXXMan
> Would you rather pass data in move mode (*nix piping) or locate mode
> (Pipes) or via disk (JCL)?  Why do you think you rarely see *nix commands
> with more than a dozen filters, while Pipelines specifications are commonly
> over 100s of stages, and 1000s of stages are not uncommon.
> REXX is the new C.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:11 PM Ituriel do Neto <
> 03427ec2837d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a
>> bit of a storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an
>> immediate.
>>
>> I have something like this :
>> A   DCX'1C'B   DCX'08'
>>  TMA,x'08' JOX
>> But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the
>> comparison, because the content of B may change.So, i would need something
>> like this:
>>  TM  A,B
>> How can i do that ?
>> Thanks in advance.
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>

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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 21:10:38 +, Ituriel do Neto  wrote:
>
>I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit of 
>a storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an immediate.
>
>I have something like this :
>A       DC    X'1C'B       DC    X'08'
>         TM    A,x'08'         JO    X
>
Please write your Assembler instructions on separate lines.

>But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the comparison, 
>because the content of B may change.So, i would need something like this:
>         TM  A,B
>
EX?

-- gil

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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:16:40 -0600, Hobart Spitz  wrote:

>Opps:  NC
>
>OREXXMan
>Would you rather pass data in move mode (*nix piping) or locate mode
>(Pipes) or via disk (JCL)?  Why do you think you rarely see *nix commands
>with more than a dozen filters, while Pipelines specifications are commonly
>over 100s of stages, and 1000s of stages are not uncommon.
>REXX is the new C.
> 
Does that paragraph (twice?) provide any assistance to the OP's problem?

>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:11 PM Ituriel do Neto  wrote:
>>>
>>> But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the
>>> comparison, because the content of B may change.So, i would need something
>>> like this:
>>>  TM  A,B

-- gil

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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Charles Mills]

 ICRn,B(No need to clear first)
 EXRn,EXTM
 JOX
...
EXTM TMA,0

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ituriel do Neto
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 1:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Replacement for TM instruction

Hi all,
I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit of a 
storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an immediate.

I have something like this :
A   DCX'1C'B   DCX'08'
 TMA,x'08' JOX
But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the comparison, 
because the content of B may change.So, i would need something like this:
 TM  A,B
How can i do that ?
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards

Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer



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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[David Cole]

Consider something like this...

  LLC R1,
  ...
  TM  A,*-*
  EXRL  R1,*-4

Dave Cole

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 4:10 PM Ituriel do Neto <
03427ec2837d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit
> of a storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an
> immediate.
>
> I have something like this :
> A   DCX'1C'B   DCX'08'
>  TMA,x'08' JOX
> But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the
> comparison, because the content of B may change.So, i would need something
> like this:
>  TM  A,B
> How can i do that ?
> Thanks in advance.
> Best Regards
>
> Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>

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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Storage area:

ADC  X'1C'
BDC  X'08'
TM1 TM  A,0
. . . . . 

Instruction sequence:

  ICR15,B
  EX   R15,TM1
* HERE YOU WOULD BRANCH BASED ON TM RESULTS

HTH

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Ituriel do Neto
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 4:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Replacement for TM instruction

EXTERNAL EMAIL

Hi all,
I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit of a 
storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an immediate.

I have something like this :
A       DC    X'1C'B       DC    X'08'
         TM    A,x'08'         JO    X
But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the comparison, 
because the content of B may change.So, i would need something like this:
         TM  A,B
How can i do that ?
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards

Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer



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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Joe Monk]

Hi,

Would this work?

MVI   B,X'08'
MVI   A,X'1C'
TMA,B
BOLABEL

A  DS  X
B  DS  X

Joe

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:11 PM Ituriel do Neto <
03427ec2837d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit
> of a storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an
> immediate.
>
> I have something like this :
> A   DCX'1C'B   DCX'08'
>  TMA,x'08' JOX
> But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the
> comparison, because the content of B may change.So, i would need something
> like this:
>  TM  A,B
> How can i do that ?
> Thanks in advance.
> Best Regards
>
> Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Charles Mills]

TM A,B as you have written it below is not valid and would not assemble without 
error. TM takes an immediate 8-bit "mask," not the name (address) of a 
variable. That is the OP's plaint: he wants a variable mask.

The best (not only) answer is an executed TM, as several have posted.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Joe Monk
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 3:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Replacement for TM instruction

Hi,

Would this work?

MVI   B,X'08'
MVI   A,X'1C'
TMA,B
BOLABEL

A  DS  X
B  DS  X

Joe

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:11 PM Ituriel do Neto <
03427ec2837d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a bit
> of a storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an
> immediate.
>
> I have something like this :
> A   DCX'1C'B   DCX'08'
>  TMA,x'08' JOX
> But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the
> comparison, because the content of B may change.So, i would need something
> like this:
>  TM  A,B
> How can i do that ?
> Thanks in advance.
> Best Regards
>
> Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: AWS is down.

[Sebastian Welton]

I do this occasionally (and in Azure):

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/apn/deploying-ibm-mainframe-z-os-on-aws-with-ibm-zd-and-t/

Sebastian

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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Robin Vowels]

On 2021-12-10 10:02, Joe Monk wrote:

Hi,

Would this work?


Definitely not. It's the same problem as before.
TM requires the mask as part of its instruction.
As others have suggested, the B operand can be supplied
by using  EX.

An alternative would be to use NC to test for the single bit.


MVI   B,X'08'
MVI   A,X'1C'
TMA,B
BOLABEL

A  DS  X
B  DS  X

Joe

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:11 PM Ituriel do Neto <
03427ec2837d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Hi all,
I would like advice because i have a situation where i need to check a 
bit

of a storage area, usinganother storage area as a pattern and not an
immediate.

I have something like this :
A   DCX'1C'B   DCX'08'
 TMA,x'08' JOX
But instead of using x'08', i need to use the variable B in the
comparison, because the content of B may change.So, i would need 
something

like this:
 TM  A,B
How can i do that ?
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards

Ituriel do Nascimento Neto z/OS System Programmer


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Re: Replacement for TM instruction

[Tony Harminc]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 at 16:17, Hobart Spitz  wrote:
>
> Opps:  NC

NC et al provide only two result possibilities; TM provides three. But
since the OP did say "a bit" of a storage area, NC may work. But it
has, the side effect of changing one of the operands. There are newish
NRK/NRG instructions that have three operands, and so (say) R0 could
be used for the first. But these work on 32 or 64 bits in registers,
and so would need yet more setup to work on the one byte under
discussion.

Tony H.

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Latest GUI complaint

[Tom Longfellow]

i am getting older and grumpier ever day.   And this is one of the reasons why.

z/OS 2.4 introduces change to AT-TLS rules required for the DDS task default 
setting of https.   The example given in the manual for AT-TLS is in the XML 
cryptospeach of the developers.Since this is too arcane for us old fogeys 
(and a lot of server pups),  IBM provides the GUI (network Communication 
Assistant) under z/OS to turn the process into pointing and cllicking.What 
is NOT documented is how to translate the arcane text into which click.

So - it is like getting instruction in French for a process that uses English.  
  And the provided translater speaks Urdu.I have spent the last two days 
attempting to perform my own traslation of both the AT-TLS magical spell and 
the TCPPARMS from the TCPIP stack.

The only silver lining is continued employment opportunities

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Re: AWS is down.

[Mark Regan]

What is the overhead cost to run ZD&T on AWS; that is, how much do they
charge you above what you pay for the IBM license for it. I wonder if IBM
will be offering the Learners Edition through the IBM Cloud?

Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR, EN80tg
CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1979 active; 1979-1991, reserves; including two
years with the Ohio Air National Guard)
Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017 (z/OS Network Software Consultant)
Email:marktre...@gmail.com
LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan


On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 7:59 PM Sebastian Welton  wrote:

> I do this occasionally (and in Azure):
>
>
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/apn/deploying-ibm-mainframe-z-os-on-aws-with-ibm-zd-and-t/
>
> Sebastian
>
> --
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Re: AWS is down.

[kekronbekron]

With IBM beefing up NFS support, I also expect DS8K to be available in AWS etc.
Only then will zD&T be more approachable as there's less data leaving & 
returning to the platform.
I really hope IBM knock it out of the park with the next storage.
Since they're also working with NVIDIA for integrating DGX/EGX or whatever into 
their Spectrum storage for analytics, it would be great if DS8K came with an 
attached DGX or some such.
z16's on-chip accelerator and zBX-like access to GPU nodes on the storage 
server, can keep a lot of stuff on Z from leaving.
I find it really, really annoying that mainframe logs are sent to Splunk, when 
those that look at Splunk usually have very, very little knowledge of SMF and 
how to play with it.
Of course, just slap on a line graph, a stacked area chart, and a pie chart, 
and you have a sophisticated dashboard that demands $.
What's worse is squirreling distributed tech into Z just so the platform can be 
Kooberneetus certified... rather than building for the Z, and not being 
completed taken in by the pull of the magic quadrants.

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 6:28 AM, Sebastian Welton 
 wrote:

> I do this occasionally (and in Azure):
>
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/apn/deploying-ibm-mainframe-z-os-on-aws-with-ibm-zd-and-t/
>
> Sebastian
>
> ---
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>
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Re: Latest GUI complaint

[Tom Brennan]

> The only silver lining is continued employment opportunities

LOL... yes, sometimes doc writers can't seem to put themselves in the 
position of the person reading the doc.  They know the details, so why 
doesn't everyone else?


Non-mainframe example:  I recently signed up with zerossl.com for web 
certificates, and they have API functions that allowed me to write 
scripts to refresh certs periodically.  Really good documentation of 
each of the dozen or so API functions, but absolutely no example of how 
to put them all together.  Luckily I found an outside blog post 
literally titled, "ZeroSSL API – The missing examples", which helped a 
lot.  So maybe write a blog page about your experiences for the next person.


On 12/9/2021 5:23 PM, Tom Longfellow wrote:

i am getting older and grumpier ever day.   And this is one of the reasons why.

z/OS 2.4 introduces change to AT-TLS rules required for the DDS task default 
setting of https.   The example given in the manual for AT-TLS is in the XML 
cryptospeach of the developers.Since this is too arcane for us old fogeys 
(and a lot of server pups),  IBM provides the GUI (network Communication 
Assistant) under z/OS to turn the process into pointing and cllicking.What 
is NOT documented is how to translate the arcane text into which click.

So - it is like getting instruction in French for a process that uses English.  
  And the provided translater speaks Urdu.I have spent the last two days 
attempting to perform my own traslation of both the AT-TLS magical spell and 
the TCPPARMS from the TCPIP stack.

The only silver lining is continued employment opportunities

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.



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Is the mainfrrame cloud more reliable? was Re: AWS is down.

[Clark Morris]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 10:55:08 -0800, Ed Jaffe
 wrote:

>On 12/8/2021 5:40 AM, Doug wrote:
>> I have watched this thread, and there is simply one thing most of us 
>> are missing.
>> This is a MF forum. For years, we have been subjected to "oh using the 
>> (insert new technology) is so much better than these old obsolete 
>> mainframes." And we have universally warned not to drink the Kool-Aid.
>>
>> So excuse us a bit of satisfaction when the one of these "master of 
>> the universe" technologies has a problem that renders it mortal, like 
>> these old, obsolete mainframes.
>
>Absolutely justifiable, especially when the platform being derided has 
>*explicitly* positioned themselves as your MORTAL ENEMY:

How reliable is IBM's z related cloud offering? 

How many of the mainframe shops are in practice old and obsolete due
to management policy?  How many shops have COBOL coding standards last
updated with either COBOL 68 (ANS COBOL) or COBOL 74 (COBOL VS)?

In my opinion one of the greater risks of the cloud is that the
appropriate national government may compel the provider be it AWS,
IBM, Microsoft, etc. to give said government access to an
organization's data without notifying the organization.  I think I
read somewhere that the US Patriot act may authorize this and I
believe that this is probably not unique to the United States. 
>
>https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/cloud/aws-out-kill-mainframes

Clark Morris

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Re: AWS is down.

[Mike Schwab]

Moshix did an AWS instance for Hercules VM/370 MVS 3.8J.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuXi1DLq1Sw

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 2:43 AM Mark Regan  wrote:
>
> What is the overhead cost to run ZD&T on AWS; that is, how much do they
> charge you above what you pay for the IBM license for it. I wonder if IBM
> will be offering the Learners Edition through the IBM Cloud?
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan, K8MTR, EN80tg
> CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1979 active; 1979-1991, reserves; including two
> years with the Ohio Air National Guard)
> Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017 (z/OS Network Software Consultant)
> Email:marktre...@gmail.com
> LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 7:59 PM Sebastian Welton  wrote:
>
> > I do this occasionally (and in Azure):
> >
> >
> > https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/apn/deploying-ibm-mainframe-z-os-on-aws-with-ibm-zd-and-t/
> >
> > Sebastian
> >
> > --
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>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: RES: AWS is down.

[David Crayford]

On 8/12/21 9:34 pm, Bodra - Pessoal wrote:

Just a very simple question: They know word CONTINGENCY and data MIRROR?



Of course they do. Cloud computing providers allow you to set 
availability zones on different data centeres and they replicate. Like 
most It outages I suspect human error just like Facebook a couple of 
months ago. You can build the most reliable
infrastructure in the world but if a human is involved you are always in 
danger of an outage.





Most of mainframe installations that I know today has contingency plans, mirror 
backup links, backup power sources etc... Cloud haven´t this, or is too 
expensive?


Carlos Bodra
IBM zEnterprise Certified
São Paulo – SP – Brazil


-Mensagem original-
De: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Em nome de 
kekronbekron
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 8 de dezembro de 2021 10:26
Para: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Assunto: Re: AWS is down.

Of course, agreed. Just saying that MF isn't the one and only, best possible 
server/platform, in all of time.
What's wrong with others trying, however futile it may or may not be.
IBM sure did try when they first created the MF.

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 5:45 PM, David Spiegel 
 wrote:


You said: "...  Did the world not exist before 1960s?

Did people automatically die before 1960s because they didn't have MF? ..."

Yes, the world existed before the 1960s and, no, nobody died as a result

of no mainframe.

You're forgetting that the world was a different place then.

Computer-based patient care was not invented until 1969.

I can remember going to my bank (in the 1960S) and having the teller

write my transaction in my bankbook with a pen.

The credit card had just been invented. Most people still wrote cheques

or paid in cash. There were no ATMs until 1969. There were no cellular

telephones.

There was no Internet as we know it today etc.

Regards,

David

On 2021-12-08 01:33, kekronbekron wrote:


Critical infra in some places, sure, not everyone is denying that.

At the moment of urgent need, do people really buy something and wait for MF to 
finish processing, for them to be then allowed to continue breathing?

What happened to the interim stages (logstics etc).

It sounds as though failure to buy/order something immediately is going to lead 
to their death... is what's being said.

Sounds pretty privileged to me.

It also sounds like it's assumed that mainframes will last 500 years, no?

Did the world not exist before 1960s?

Did people automatically die before 1960s because they didn't have MF?

Are people and organizations not allowed to be wrong (to their own detriment), 
etc.

Are we sure that 100% of all information out there is truth, apart from this 
announcement that AWS wants to replace MF?

We can all like MF, but don't need to act like it's the sole saviour of 
humanity.

Again that means that all technology that evolved since then is a complete 
waste of time and people's efforts.

Sounds pretty delusional to me... just to convey that MFs are good servers.

-   KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 10:00 AM, Bill Johnson 
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:


AWS had a larger & longer outage today, than all the outages on the mainframes 
I’ve worked on in the last 30 years. Much worse. Yet, some here think AWS is going 
to replace the mainframe for critical applications like banking, health care, big 
retail, and insurance. Plus, the mainframe has had plenty of negative posts here in 
the decades I’ve been involved. Nobody dies when Netflix isn’t available. (One of 
the hits from today) people can and do die if the drugs they need aren’t available 
because the computer system is down.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021, 11:01 PM, kekronbekron 
02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:

Not at anybody in particular:

Do we have to make snide remarks because someone else had an outage?

Don't we remember the times when things on the mainframe itself went south?

Has every site's MF env. been 100% available through all these decades?

Is it wrong to fail sometimes?

Is this the attitude with which you'd like to retire, holding onto precious 
remarks and burning the path behind you as you leave?

What does that say about one's mentality and outlook in life?

-   KB

 ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

 On Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 3:54 AM, Ronald Wells 
02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:



Pretty pic/web pages make the $$ did you not get the memo

-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of John 
McKown

Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 2:57 PM

To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: Re: AWS is down.

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Oh, but they advertise that they can replace mainframe. Well, maybe the 
processing. But not the on site reliability. Of course, for WFH, t