Re: AT-TLS Redbook

[Timothy Sipples]

As far as I’m aware there’s no IBM redbook that exclusively covers z/OS AT-TLS, 
but there are several redbooks that contain relevant chapters or sections. See 
this page for an index:

https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/flora-gui1/2023/01/03/attls-info-hub

—
Timothy Sipples
Senior Architect
Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cybersecurity
IBM Z/LinuxONE, Asia-Pacific
sipp...@sg.ibm.com


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Re: VTS question

[kekronbekron]

Hi Paul,

Is there a more friendlier name for this - "Advanced TS Migrations VTS built on 
Dell power edge servers … 3480, 3490, and 3590 support"?

OP, in addition to Luminex, you can consider -
Optica zVT
BMC Model9 (called AMI Ops something these days)
Visara

I don't believe there's a small bro option for TS4500.


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Friday, May 10th, 2024 at 05:12, Paul Gorlinsky  
wrote:

> Yes … Advanced TS Migrations VTS built on Dell power edge servers … 3480, 
> 3490, and 3590 support. AES256 and zSTD compressed images and smart support 
> for replication up to 8 locations, as well as scratch retention for any 
> duration site chooses.
> 
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Re: VTS question

[Paul Gorlinsky]

Yes … Advanced TS Migrations VTS built on Dell power edge servers … 3480, 3490, 
and 3590 support. AES256 and zSTD compressed images and smart support for 
replication up to 8 locations, as well as scratch retention for any duration 
site chooses.

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AT-TLS Redbook

[Paul Gorlinsky]

I have a client that in the early stages of planning an AT-TLS installation for 
TLS 1. Is there a Redbook that focuses on AT-TLS?

Thanks

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VTS question

[Pommier, Rex]

Hello list,

We currently have a very small TS7760 grid, one frame at our primary site 
replicating to a secondary frame at out alternate site.  The alternate site is 
a TS7760T with an old single frame TS3584 with 5 3592-E08 drives hanging off 
the back of it.  We just found out the 3584 is out of support and the 7760s are 
falling off the end of the year.  We're looking at what our options are.  
Obviously the easiest choice for the 7760 replacements are 7770s.  I know there 
are a couple competitors out there, EMC/Dell and maybe Luminex are options for 
the VTS.  Any others?

More interesting to me right now is a replacement for the 3584.  I know IBM has 
a TS4500 library but that seems like overkill for a site our size.   Is there a 
"baby brother" to the 4500 or some other tape back end we could use?  I'm 
obviously looking in the wrong place because I'm not seeing anything talking 
about hanging tape off the back end of the TS7770T.  

TIA,
Rex

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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Lionel B Dyck]

at 2.5 I think IBM ISPF changed the member delete to delete the member and
all generations so a PDSE wouldn't have been helpful at that point.

glad you had a backup available.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 3:03 PM Thomas Berg <
0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I did the delete in ISPF 3.1. By some reason the space was released so only
> 1 track was left. I tried with PDS86 but it didn't find any member.
> We found a decently fresh backup so I only lost 2 days of work. That was
> acceptable.
>
> Thomas Berg
>
> Den tors 9 maj 2024 17:22Seymour J Metz  skrev:
>
> > Alas, if he did a fast bulk erase then they're toast. That's also true
> for
> > PDS.
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> > of Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:04 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
> >
> > I believe PDSE member generations won't help if the member was deleted.
> >
> > --
> > Tom Marchant
> >
> > On Thu, 9 May 2024 11:58:59 +, Seymour J Metz 
> wrote:
> >
> > >For PDS: PDS96
> > >
> > >For PDSE: define it with multiple versions
> > >
> > >--
> > >Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > >http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> > >עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> > >נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> > >
> > >
> > >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on
> behalf
> > of   <0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:43 PM
> > >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > >Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
> > >
> > >I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx
> ds.
> > >
> > >I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among
> > the members I deleted...
> > >(That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)
> > >
> > >Any that info about how?
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
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Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Thomas Berg]

I did the delete in ISPF 3.1. By some reason the space was released so only
1 track was left. I tried with PDS86 but it didn't find any member.
We found a decently fresh backup so I only lost 2 days of work. That was
acceptable.

Thomas Berg

Den tors 9 maj 2024 17:22Seymour J Metz  skrev:

> Alas, if he did a fast bulk erase then they're toast. That's also true for
> PDS.
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
>
> I believe PDSE member generations won't help if the member was deleted.
>
> --
> Tom Marchant
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 11:58:59 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> >For PDS: PDS96
> >
> >For PDSE: define it with multiple versions
> >
> >--
> >Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> >http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> >עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> >נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
> >
> >
> >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of   <0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:43 PM
> >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
> >
> >I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds.
> >
> >I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among
> the members I deleted...
> >(That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)
> >
> >Any that info about how?
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

Well my mind isn't so great - as it never even thought about that.  Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

GMTA!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is 
> >an exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 
> 4-digit value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance 
> with products that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the 
> processor. Minutes must be a number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
> --
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

GMTA!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is 
> >an exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 
> 4-digit value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance 
> with products that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the 
> processor. Minutes must be a number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
> --
> The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from 
> disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is 
> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering 
> this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
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> reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by 
> replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in 
> electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Rex Pommier wrote, in part:
>So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

>minutes
>Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. 
>Minutes must be a >number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

>357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
>number.

Well, obviously in binary it's 0101011101111000 and...ok, not that. BUT I 
did multiply it by 60 and got 21,474,720--which is suspiciously close in digits 
(if not in scale) to 2**31, 2,147,483,648. Since classic timer units are close 
to microseconds, this seems likely to be the source of the limit, no?

...phsiii (feeling slightly smug about having found that, though not 100% 
convinced it's the answer!)

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Mike Schwab]

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an
> >exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
> value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products 
> that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. 
> Minutes must be a number
> from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
> --
> The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from 
> disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is 
> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering 
> this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
> disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in 
> reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by 
> replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in 
> electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
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Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

It is most definitely CPU time:

Job card on my test job:
//RRPJ#180 JOB (435001),'RRP',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),   
// CLASS=T,MSGCLASS=X,TIME=(0,30),  
// NOTIFY=   

Abend info:
-STEPNAME PROCSTEPRC   EXCP   CONN   TCB   SRB  CLOCK   
-APPLYSMP  *SEC6   407K  32760  0.527212  0.0177301.8   

Pardon the misalignment, TCB time of .527... minutes, wall clock time of 1.8 
minutes.

Rex


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:

>In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes 
>is your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Lionel B. Dyck]

Is there a way to swap?

Actually, you can edit the old generation and save it which will create a new 
base (generation 0) member and the original base will become the -1 generation. 
 That's about the best you can do.

With PDSEGEN you can compare any generation to any generation if that helps.


Lionel B. Dyck <>< 
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
System Z Enthusiasts Discord: https://discord.gg/sze

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 12:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:11:35 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:

>It actually depends on how the member was deleted - sadly many tools will only 
>delete the base (generation 0) member and leave the non-zero generations 
>alone. However if that is the case then you need a tool that can display those 
>non-zero generations as, once again, many tools will ignore them (such as the 
>default ISPF browse/edit/view).
> 
Is there any way to swap two generations of a member to do a regression test 
control ("Did this happen before?") and swap them back after?

We used a UNIX-based CM product from an ISV (later acquired by IBM), that 
relied heavily on symbolic links.  A coder could use a GUI to create a working 
"SYSLIB" composed of symlinks to members of various generations to build a 
working version (we used a cross
assembler.)

DSFS may have approached the wrong objective: more value in making UNIX files 
accessible to traditional utilities than in making traditional data sets 
accessible to UNIX utilities.

--
gil

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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:11:35 -0500, Lionel B. Dyck  wrote:

>It actually depends on how the member was deleted - sadly many tools will only 
>delete the base (generation 0) member and leave the non-zero generations 
>alone. However if that is the case then you need a tool that can display those 
>non-zero generations as, once again, many tools will ignore them (such as the 
>default ISPF browse/edit/view).
> 
Is there any way to swap two generations of a member to do a
regression test control ("Did this happen before?") and swap
them back after?

We used a UNIX-based CM product from an ISV (later acquired by IBM),
that relied heavily on symbolic links.  A coder could use a GUI to
create a working "SYSLIB" composed of symlinks to members of
various generations to build a working version (we used a cross
assembler.)

DSFS may have approached the wrong objective: more value in
making UNIX files accessible to traditional utilities than in
making traditional data sets accessible to UNIX utilities.

-- 
gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

In TUs?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Pommier, Rex 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an
>exit controlling the use of 1440
>
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that 
use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

--

Gil et al,

So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

minutes
Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. Minutes 
must be a number
from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
number.

Rex

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

 is to large if it's stored in timer units. If that isn't an anachronism, I 
don't know what is.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an exit 
>controlling the use of 1440
>
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value,
to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

Bletch! Where is that documented?

I find the suspension of JWT by TIME=1440 to not only unintuitive but harmful. 
what if I need to limit the CPU time but allow long waits?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Except that TIME=1440 or TIME=NOLIMIT unintuitively overrides that /*JOBPARM 
value, right?

Not that I think IBM has the infodev resources to spend, but the amount of 
discussion this generated suggests to me that the doc is insufficient.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

לא דובים ולא יער

TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Hayim Sokolsky <062497e865c9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com
W:RocketSoftware.com

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES yet total CPU used is 
0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu
> with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email 

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an 
>exit controlling the use of 1440
> 
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that 
use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

--

Gil et al,

So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

minutes
Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. Minutes 
must be a number
from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
number.

Rex

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

I don't know a Hebrew idiom for that. 

An approximate English equivalent for לא דובים ולא יער would be There ain't no 
such animal.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 17:06:01 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>לא דובים ולא יער
>
"not my monkeys, not my circus"?

>TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
>on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 17:06:01 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>לא דובים ולא יער
>
"not my monkeys, not my circus"?

>TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
>on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

-- 
gil

--
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Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 09:25:58 -0400, Phil Smith III  wrote:
>...
>Thanks for the info, Shmuel et al. And yes, Gil, they're still card images, 
>right?
> 
Well, sort of.  Alas, too many programmers and products remain unaware
that the 80-column limit was relaxed long ago, although larger valuew
are useful only for instream data sets.

But the obsolete 89-column limit is still enforced by the SUBMIT
commands in ISPF, TSO, OMVS, and Rexx.

CDC took the opposite approach, making binary cards disk
block images, somewhat analogous to:
RECFM=VBS,BLKSZE=80
so that disk records readily spanned cards.

-- 
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Except that TIME=1440 or TIME=NOLIMIT unintuitively overrides that /*JOBPARM 
value, right? 

Not that I think IBM has the infodev resources to spend, but the amount of 
discussion this generated suggests to me that the doc is insufficient.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

לא דובים ולא יער

TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Hayim Sokolsky <062497e865c9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com
W:RocketSoftware.com

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES yet total CPU used is 
0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu 
> with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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--
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Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 

Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an exit 
>controlling the use of 1440
> 
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value,
to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

לא דובים ולא יער

TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Hayim Sokolsky <062497e865c9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com
W:RocketSoftware.com

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: 
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Re: JOB card format

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Yes, it is CPU time.
Wall time is JWT specified in SMFPRMxx.

BTW: JWT is quite good for checking the above.
Simply run IEBGENER with SYSUT2 pointing to VOL=SER=NOSUCH and specify 
TIME=(,10).


A little bit harder is to specify low service class (low velocity) and 
run some ineffective I/O like IEBGENER from/to RECFM=F.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 09.05.2024 o 17:45, Charles Mills pisze:

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:


In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Yes, it is CPU time.
Wall time is JWT specified in SMFPRMxx.

BTW: JWT is quite good for checking the above.
Simply run IEBGENER with SYSUT2 pointing to VOL=SER=NOSUCH and specify 
TIME=(,10).


A little bit harder is to specify low service class (low velocity) and 
run some ineffective I/O like IEBGENER from/to RECFM=F.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 09.05.2024 o 17:45, Charles Mills pisze:

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:


In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Charles Mills]

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:

>In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes 
>is your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Steve Beaver]

TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an exit 
controlling the use of 1440



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Hayim Sokolsky
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 10:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com
W:RocketSoftware.com

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: JOB card format

[Hayim Sokolsky]

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com
W:RocketSoftware.com

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: 
INFO IBM-MAIN

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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with 
the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Seymour J Metz]

Alas, if he did a fast bulk erase then they're toast. That's also true for PDS.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

I believe PDSE member generations won't help if the member was deleted.

--
Tom Marchant

On Thu, 9 May 2024 11:58:59 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>For PDS: PDS96
>
>For PDSE: define it with multiple versions
>
>--
>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
>נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
>
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
>  <0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:43 PM
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
>
>I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds.
>
>I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among the 
>members I deleted...
>(That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)
>
>Any that info about how?

--
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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Lionel B. Dyck]

It actually depends on how the member was deleted - sadly many tools will only 
delete the base (generation 0) member and leave the non-zero generations alone. 
However if that is the case then you need a tool that can display those 
non-zero generations as, once again, many tools will ignore them (such as the 
default ISPF browse/edit/view).

The Review command (cbttape file 134) will show the generations as well as 
PDSEGEN (cbttape file 969) and both are ***free***. There are vendor products 
that can be used as well if you have them but some may require a special 
command or option to view the generations.


Lionel B. Dyck <>< 
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
System Z Enthusiasts Discord: https://discord.gg/sze

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Marchant
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 10:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

I believe PDSE member generations won't help if the member was deleted.

--
Tom Marchant

On Thu, 9 May 2024 11:58:59 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>For PDS: PDS96
>
>For PDSE: define it with multiple versions
>
>--
>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
>נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
>
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on 
>behalf of   
><0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:43 PM
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
>
>I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds.
>
>I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among the 
>members I deleted...
>(That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)
>
>Any that info about how?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Tom Marchant]

I believe PDSE member generations won't help if the member was deleted.

-- 
Tom Marchant

On Thu, 9 May 2024 11:58:59 +, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

>For PDS: PDS96
>
>For PDSE: define it with multiple versions
>
>--
>Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
>נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
>
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
>  <0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:43 PM
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
>
>I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds.
>
>I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among the 
>members I deleted...
>(That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)
>
>Any that info about how?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Hah, "your shop". We're a dev shop, three people, ADCD. Can't even spell 
"accounting field for JES2", since we don't go near anything where that would 
matter.

Thanks for the info, Shmuel et al. And yes, Gil, they're still card images, 
right?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 8:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

The generic format is in JCL Reference, but your installation may have imposed 
restrictions on the accounting and programmer name fields. 

Is your shop using the accounting field for JES2? If so, that's also in the JCL 
reference.  Or has IBM dropped that option?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JOB card format

I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Thomas Berg]

Thanks.

Unfortunately by some reason the space was released after the deletion
(used ISPF 3.1) so it didn't work. But we found a decently fresh backup and
could restore most members. Those I created yesterday and today was lost
but that's acceptable.

Note to myself and other people as hasty as myself: ALWAYS check the
dataset name extra before mass deletion...


Thomas Berg



Den tors 9 maj 2024 13:59Seymour J Metz  skrev:

> For PDS: PDS96
>
> For PDSE: define it with multiple versions
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of   <0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:43 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?
>
> I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds.
>
> I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among
> the members I deleted...
> (That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)
>
> Any that info about how?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

The generic format is in JCL Reference, but your installation may have imposed 
restrictions on the accounting and programmer name fields. 

Is your shop using the accounting field for JES2? If so, that's also in the JCL 
reference.  Or has IBM dropped that option?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JOB card format

I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: JOB card format

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

JES2 ESTTIME parameter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don't click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES yet total CPU used is 
0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message 
talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

There are three distinct limits:

CPU time: controlled by JCL

Execution time limit: controlled by JECL.

Wait time limit: JCL only controls on/off.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 8:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message 
talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Seymour J Metz]

For PDS: PDS96

For PDSE: define it with multiple versions

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
  <0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds.

I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among the 
members I deleted...
(That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)

Any that info about how?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Seymour J Metz]

PDS is one of the tools that I really miss when I'm somewhere it's not allowed. 
Essential, IMHO.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Mark Jacobs <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

Look at this.

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1_JU6nbWFNm684Ub_ghS9mA8tvueJ4APoT_xMG9m2K3HXZ9cOSj__hrVtC_iDiLe8Of5ZmJYflx-5i64cyCkkkTLLXn8FeiMwM839slrBOGQ44cASeyXYVd5gbmFGGXrac3UAVDO0A-Y8dyENGz3e3B_5JF4lOoQR78SHEEzX1UryrX-_q_CNu4QvQRvirq311ix6UaX--TF-ikMtwWFB8-k3FSQvtUWWupn4fxodvI_ZSgE_9MOH3yslMvVoxxJATeq07S4Cb_WVYQfVn7Baa7yHm_OoX2CifuVKp_Q1HoKPUs-1rOl0AGK2RP0DU8zrNdx53uAgy6BFLzaKZP_jGWyWGDFHKWrYnXbdMC2O51f08me6-nI5jXN_HFX4NzXc3rvtTBWqW_FYap_t0g-KdI0GB126pIScaVLgFYme6Eg/https%3A%2F%2Fcbttape.org%2Ffreepds.htm

Mark Jacobs

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On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 9:43 PM, 
0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu 
<0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds.
>
> I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among the 
> members I deleted...
> (That is by working with the pds as it is itself.)
>
> Any that info about how?
>
> --
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Re: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

[Lionel B. Dyck]

If the PDS was a PDS then if you, or the system, hasn't performed a compress 
you should be good. If it was a PDSE then you're toast (sorry).

If a PDS then get the PDS command from CBTTape file 182.

This command in PDS will restore all members - unfortunately it can't recover 
the original member names but at least you'll have something.

>From ISPF:

PDS dataset-name
Restore $$ repeat display noprompt

Or enter O.RES to be prompted for the command syntax

Hope this helps


Lionel B. Dyck <>< 
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
System Z Enthusiasts Discord: https://discord.gg/sze

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 8:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Restore members in a PDS - how/which tool?

I have screwed up badly as I succeded to delete all members in my rexx ds. 

I know that there are tools/methods to restore them but those were among the 
members I deleted...  
(That is by working with the pds as it is itself.) 

Any that info about how? 

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lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Consultation on the Potential Risks of Deleting Specific Datasets

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Wed, 8 May 2024, at 13:17, Jason Cai wrote:
> Dear all
>
> I am reaching out to discuss a specific operation we are considering 
> for our z/OS DCOLLECT reports. Currently, we are planning to delete all 
> the datasets where LASTREF=NONE and DSORG=PS.

Multiple people have mentioned JCL but remember that datasets can
be dynamically allocated in various ways.

If LASTREF only gets updated if a file is opened, then there's another
problem.  I used to use empty (no primary allocation, IIRC) datasets
as state flags in applications - everybody could see them via ispf 3.4,
those with relevant ACF2 permissions could rename/delete them if it
was needed to reset/force an application's state out of some "not 
supposed to happen" situation.  Usually the application renamed the
datasets to indicate what it was doing.  

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: Execute Rexx from Cobol

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

I always use names (variables, modules, etc.) which cannot be confused 
with any keyword.

Just to eliminate risk of problems as described here.

Sometimes I screw up with using "quick and dirty" scripts names of 
variables which are as self-explanable as "r1, r2, x, y, i". :-(


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland



W dniu 07.05.2024 o 23:31, Bob Bridges pisze:

Hah!  We had a similar problem a few months ago at my current client; after 
upgrading to z/OS 2.2, a REXX/ISPF app started bombing.  Many moons before I'd 
written an external exec and called it LOG; its only purpose is to send to the 
guy responsible for supporting that app (me, I mean) messages under certain 
circumstances so I could be apprised of problems.  Turns out that a new library 
in 2.2 has a load module named LOG, which was intercepting the old invocation.  
Easy fix: I just renamed the REXX module and updated the code to use the new 
name.  But it gave me a turn for a few days.

---
Bob Bridges,robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313


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