Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-29 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:14:49 -0500, Jay Maynard wrote:

>The maximum length of a dataset name has been 44 characters since the very
>earliest days of System/360.
> 
You didn't read.  I was asking not about "dataset" (ITYM "data set")
names, but about symbolic alias strings.


>On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 1:06 PM Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 17:48:20 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> >...
>> >... The symbolic string must not exceed 44 characters, including all
>> name segments and periods.
>> >
>> Thanks.  I see it in: <
>> .
>>
>> I wonder why IBM chose that number.  It seems unduly
>> restrictive; ill-considered.

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-29 Thread Pommier, Rex 
I think Gil's question was more of a "why is the symbolic string limited to 44 
characters?"   I could have a symbol of  that resolves to a single 
character.  If I have several of these in a symbolic string I could easily run 
out of the 44 character limit pre-resolution and still end up with a perfectly 
valid 44 max character dataset name.  

We have some symbols that perform exactly like that at my shop.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Jay 
Maynard
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 1:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

The maximum length of a dataset name has been 44 characters since the very 
earliest days of System/360.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 1:06 PM Paul Gilmartin < 
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 17:48:20 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:
> >...
> >... The symbolic string must not exceed 44 characters, including 
> > all
> name segments and periods.
> >
> Thanks.  I see it in: <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topi
> c=systems-extended-alias-support__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!-uL7D3ikH6Tk4XGu
> URdmdrS9UKjKhUEnYC2G_Bb8Um8TRMM86KGL7TJNWwoxhn4gtQ$
> >.
>
> I wonder why IBM chose that number.  It seems unduly restrictive; 
> ill-considered.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
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Jay Maynard

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-29 Thread Jay Maynard 
The maximum length of a dataset name has been 44 characters since the very
earliest days of System/360.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 1:06 PM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 17:48:20 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:
> >...
> >... The symbolic string must not exceed 44 characters, including all
> name segments and periods.
> >
> Thanks.  I see it in: <
> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=systems-extended-alias-support
> >.
>
> I wonder why IBM chose that number.  It seems unduly
> restrictive; ill-considered.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-29 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 17:48:20 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>...
>... The symbolic string must not exceed 44 characters, including all name 
> segments and periods.
>
Thanks.  I see it in: 
.

I wonder why IBM chose that number.  It seems unduly
restrictive; ill-considered.

--
gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-29 Thread Pommier, Rex 
It's in the "managing catalogs" manual under the "extended alias support" 
section.  Last line below - 44 characters but it doesn't specify if that's 
before resolution, after, or both.  Taking the comment at face value, it would 
imply before resolution is max 44.

• If the resolved name is a non-VSAM data set, it is done at the time of 
reference to the data set by a
catalog request. IDCAMS resolves the symbolic related name for an alias to make 
sure requests are
oriented to the correct catalog. The restriction on the IDCAMS DEFINE ALIAS 
command that the
resolved value for the symbolic related entryname must be a catalog entry that 
is located in the same
catalog that contains the value for aliasname has been removed. See z/OS DFSMS 
Access Method
Services Commands for information on the IDCAMS DEFINE ALIAS command.

The symbolic string must not exceed 44 characters, including all name segments 
and periods.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 12:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 22:39:12 +, Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>...
>  Just for fun I defined a symbolic called  and IPLed my sandbox 
> resulting in (in part) this:
>
>IEA007I STATIC SYSTEM SYMBOL VALUES 045 
>  = ""
>
>I then defined a new SYM alias:
>
>  DEF ALIAS(NAME(SYS1.REX) SYM(RRP.))  
>IDC0001I FUNCTION COMPLETED, HIGHEST CONDITION CODE WAS 0   
>
Looking at 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=dap-required-parameters__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!9lXQZVcmmr5HOhOMVSLA0GThxck5Wqdcs6MIWs7-QO5zdLpwqK286Mqh_qXUP74TGw$
 >
SYMBOLICRELATE(entryname)
... What's the maximum length of the entryname?  I don't see it specified on 
that page.  Perhaps elsewhere?

--
gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-29 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 22:39:12 +, Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>...
>  Just for fun I defined a symbolic called  and IPLed my sandbox 
> resulting in (in part) this:
>
>IEA007I STATIC SYSTEM SYMBOL VALUES 045 
>  = ""
>
>I then defined a new SYM alias:
>
>  DEF ALIAS(NAME(SYS1.REX) SYM(RRP.))  
>IDC0001I FUNCTION COMPLETED, HIGHEST CONDITION CODE WAS 0   
>
Looking at 
SYMBOLICRELATE(entryname) 
... What's the maximum length of the entryname?  I don't see
it specified on that page.  Perhaps elsewhere?

-- 
gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-28 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 22:39:12 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>
>...  Just for fun I defined a symbolic called  and IPLed my sandbox 
> resulting in (in part) this:
>
>IEA007I STATIC SYSTEM SYMBOL VALUES 045 
>  = ""
>
>I then defined a new SYM alias:
>
>  DEF ALIAS(NAME(SYS1.REX) SYM(RRP.))  
>IDC0001I FUNCTION COMPLETED, HIGHEST CONDITION CODE WAS 0   
> 
Is the substituted value required to be (exactly one?)
entire qualifier?

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gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

2022-03-28 Thread Pommier, Rex 
Hi Gil,

You asked why SYMBOLICRELATE doesn't work.  At my site at least, SYM doesn't 
work because it drops the alias entry into the same catalog as the base entry, 
regardless of what catalog the HLQ should be putting the alias into.  Just for 
fun I defined a symbolic called  and IPLed my sandbox resulting in (in 
part) this:

IEA007I STATIC SYSTEM SYMBOL VALUES 045 
  = ""

I then defined a new SYM alias:

  DEF ALIAS(NAME(SYS1.REX) SYM(RRP.))  
IDC0001I FUNCTION COMPLETED, HIGHEST CONDITION CODE WAS 0   

My SYS1 datasets are normally defined in the master catalog - I don't use 
multi-level aliasing.  I then tried to find/use SYS1.REX using standard catalog 
searching and got "not found".  I dumped the user catalog that has RRP.JCL in 
it and I found SYS1.REX in the same catalog.  Here are the relevant entries:

   LISTC CAT(CATALOG.USERCAT.TSO1) ALL
NONVSAM --- RRP.JCL   
  VOLUMES 
VOLSERSFG001 DEVTYPE--X'3010200F' 
  ASSOCIATIONS(NULL)  
  ATTRIBUTES  
ALIAS - SYS1.REX  
  HISTORY 
RELEASE2 CREATION2022.087 
  ASSOCIATIONS
SYMBOLIC-RRP.
RESOLVED-RRP.JCL  

So it looks like we're still stuck with the SYM alias being in the same catalog 
as the base entry.  I did not try using the SYMBOL as the HLQ of the dataset 
name.  Perhaps that would resolve correctly but the way I read the "managing 
catalogs" manual, there was no such restriction.  That is, of course, unless 
I'm using SYM completely wrong which is possible, because I've never used it 
before playing with it today.

Rex


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2022 1:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: IDCAMS ALIAS vs a symbolic link?

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 15:27:22 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>He's looking for an alias without the restriction of being in the same 
>catalog. 
>
What's wrong with SYMBOLICRELATE?

>That would be useful for people who haven't set things up  to exploit 
>SYMBOLICRELATE, but I doubt that IBM will be willing to do it.
>
The simple RFE would be that the restriction that the related name contain an 
"&" be removed.

It strikes me as an manifestation of a Catalog mindset that z/OS supports "$" 
symbol expansion in symlinks.  Solaris met a similar need with symbols in mount 
maps.

--
gil

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