AW: Re: Software to help switching from daylight saving time to standard time
Norbert, Many thanks for link to the SAP offering (I intentionally didn't write "solution"). Very interesting. But not applicable to z/OS -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AW: Re: Software to help switching from daylight saving time to standard time
On 2014-11-28, at 08:47, R.S. wrote: > > * Itech issues #2: what about other systems ? I'm guess during "slow down" > your mainframe won't be synchronized with other servers in your datacenter. > Do you like to have different timestamps in the systems? What about time > sensitive protocols like Kerberos? Are you sure everything will work with no > synchronizaion? Note, it's not few seconds delta. > I'd expect (most) such sensitive protocols to be using UTC and be unaffected. Some plies here seem to assume that the rate of the TOD clock would be adjusted. I hope the TOD and UTC would be unaffected, and only local time affected. > * Using "clock slow down" means fake time. It is not only innacurate, this is > intentional => it is fogery. Would you say in a court "ok we recorded the > transaction, but the time field is fake"? > HTH > Pondering. How would I implement this Bad Idea (and only if my paycheck depended on it)? Well, in present z/OS design, during a Leap Second, all user processes are made non-dispatchable in order to avoid ambiguous UTC time stamps. So I assume all can tolerate 1-second outages. (How is this done? Does each processor wait, disabling all but timer interrupts for one second while CVTLSO is adjusted? Are there any exemptions for critical processes that can't tolerate 1-second unavailability?) So, alternately suspend user processes for 1 second while CVTLDTO is adjusted, then dispatch them for 1 second. In 2 hours the adjustment is complete. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: AW: Re: Software to help switching from daylight saving time to standard time
> In the country that takes pride in being the world's oldest democracy? > What > am I missing? The reality? Sadly, it's not the only case. --Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AW: Re: Software to help switching from daylight saving time to standard time
On 2014-11-28, at 08:47, R.S. wrote: > > * Using "clock slow down" means fake time. It is not only innacurate, this is > intentional => it is fogery. Would you say in a court "ok we recorded the > transaction, but the time field is fake"? > In the U.S. some states have a constitutional limit on the number of days a legislative session may last. In some cases, the president of the senate has ordered the sergeant-at-arms to stop the clock in the senate chamber at 23:59 on the last day to complete business. I've not heard of any court test of this practice, either: o Challenging a conviction under a law passed during such an unconstitutional extension (difficult because the legislative record says "23:59"?) or: o Challenging a violation of tavern closing time limits if the alleged violation occurred while time was frozen in the state. On 2014-11-28, at 08:35, Peter Hunkeler wrote: > > I whished anyone would be able to stop that ridiculous and usless > timeshifting twice a year. > Bad paradigm for IT implementation. Nothing should be viewed as "shifting twice a year." Rather the paradigm should be of a function that maps linear time such as TAI (POSIX's choice of UTC was a bad decision) to civil time. That function changes not semiannually, but only in consequence of sporadic legislative action; an extreme example being in Independent Samoa in 2011. > Did you know that Swiss people actually had a voting back in the late 70's or > early 80's if we do want to start this glorious thing? We decided no we do > not. Our Government ignored this and daylight saving was introduced. > In the country that takes pride in being the world's oldest democracy? What am I missing? > I admit it would have been a funny situation to be a single small country not > switching to DST while all countries around us do. > Vaguely reminiscent of Sweden's chaotic adoption of the Gregorian Calendar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_calendar On 2014-11-28, at 04:53, Peter Hunkeler wrote: > > ... we cannot get commitment from the application side that each and every > application is either using UTC or that it can cope with duplicate time > stamps. > Who signs their paychecks? Another "requirement" that reminds me of Cnut. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AW: Re: Software to help switching from daylight saving time to standard time
W dniu 2014-11-28 o 16:28, Peter Hunkeler pisze: Radoslaw, I'm 100% with you, but we need to get that (stupid) idea out of management's heads again.so I need more that "it's a stupid idea" type of arguments. OK, let's try: * 02:31 is ambigous. It can lead to legal issues (when it happened actually?) * Using "clock slow down" means fake time. It is not only innacurate, this is intentional => it is fogery. Would you say in a court "ok we recorded the transaction, but the time field is fake"? * Technical issues. Is the "slow down" mechanism compatible and tested with your system, DBMS, other subsystems and your applications? Who avouch it? * Itech issues #2: what about other systems ? I'm guess during "slow down" your mainframe won't be synchronized with other servers in your datacenter. Do you like to have different timestamps in the systems? What about time sensitive protocols like Kerberos? Are you sure everything will work with no synchronizaion? Note, it's not few seconds delta. HTH -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland --- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzib w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2014 r. kapita zakadowy mBanku S.A. (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.696.052 zote. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: Software to help switching from daylight saving time to standard time
And I am 100% with you as well, Elardus I whished anyone would be able to stop that ridiculous and usless timeshifting twice a year. Did you know that Swiss people actually had a voting back in the late 70's or early 80's if we do want to start this glorious thing? We decided no we do not. Our Government ignored this and daylight saving was introduced. I admit it would have been a funny situation to be a single small country not switching to DST while all countries around us do. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: Software to help switching from daylight saving time to standard time
Radoslaw, I'm 100% with you, but we need to get that (stupid) idea out of management's heads again.so I need more that "it's a stupid idea" type of arguments. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
