Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
On 2/10/24 19:54, Phil Smith III wrote: Bob Bridges wrote: "...where mainframes' resilience meets the agility of cloud computing." What is the "agility" of the cloud, exactly? The ability to spin up more instances [of applications that are built that way, obviously] on demand/automatically. For certain very peaky workloads this is a huge win. Not that I'm in any way arguing that these are important applications in the real world, but things like Pinterest and Instagram at least started this way in AWS or GCP, still use the model (albeit presumably on their own cloud now): when something big happens and usage blows up, instead of just getting dog-slow or crashing, more instances get spun up and things hum along. Yes, there are a ton of assumptions involved there-capacity/competence/security/etc. of the cloud provider. I'm very chary of public cloud for "real work" for this reason. But if you look at it at the right angle (perhaps squinting a lot!), you can see that-again, for the right workloads-it gets you out of the business of provisioning/capacity management/etc. Of course it also encourages inefficient code, but ?maybe? that's OK (again, in the right use cases). One of the biggest problems, of course, is that folks don't understand the caveats, go in with both feet first, and get burned. All of the CSPs, for example, offer some sort of cryptographic service. None of them are BYOK (Bring Your Own Key)-in other words, you're trusting the service itself not to attack you or to get compromised and allow an attack. WCGW? For software vendors, the attraction is that they don't have to build/manage as much of the platform as they do when they provide a fully functional server. All that really does is move that requirement from the vendor (once) to each customer, ... kick the can ... so it's a win for the vendor and a loss for the customer. That is, the customer has to do all the vulnerability scanning, patching, etc., instead of having the vendor do the heavy lifting (the wise customer does the scanning anyway, but then expects the vendor to provide the updates.) I keep waiting for the customer world to figure this out; hasn't happened yet AFAICT. Weird. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This BYOK thing ... what a concept! -- R; <>< -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
See also https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/02/ransomware_infection_credit_unions/ for an attack on a cloud IT provider. My on-line access to the Federal Credit Union of my former employer was affected by this attack. Rather than wait an unknown length of time for the cloud IT provider to recover before they could even begin to recover their own cloud system, they started rebuilding with a new cloud provider. Their on-line access was unavailable for several weeks, but only their on-line Internet access was affected. Handling of on-site transactions was unaffected and telephone support was used to bridge the gap in account Internet access. I would suspect an incident like this for a provider of cloud servers has a very serious, possibly fatal, financial impact. It certainly illustrates why a company that is using cloud servers should never entrust backups of their cloud virtual machines to the same service that provides the virtual machines. JC Ewing On 2/11/24 22:30, Dave Beagle wrote: One of the big drawbacks to non mainframe clouds is the ease with which they are hacked. AWS & Azure are hacked pretty frequently. https://www.securityweek.com/microsoft-cloud-hack-exposed-more-than-exchange-outlook-emails/ https://cybernews.com/security/amazon-cloud-loses-silver-lining/ Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, February 11, 2024, 6:51 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote: With current technology, Z has the edge for I/O and RAS, but not for CPU. What makes sense depends very much on the business and legal requirements. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Phil Smith III Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2024 3:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech Shmuel wrote: I was thinking of zCX as hosting containers The process for deploying virtual machines in z/VM is different although it also eliminates manual setup that used to be necessary. i was trying to illustrated that the automation of deployment was not limited to the cloud. Ah! Gotcha. Sure, containers is containers is containers. But given the expense of IBM zSystems MIPS, it's hard to envision overprovisioning for possible usage spikes the way x86 clusters do. Yes, there's CoD, which is sort of the forerunner to this elastic capacity, but not nearly as automated. To be clear: I'm unconvinced that cloud elasticity is a particularly useful capacity in most serious business use cases. Black Friday (heck, the whole holiday season) maybe, but that's moderately predictable, and CoD or just plain ol' capacity planning can deal with that. Similarly, I'm unconvinced that zCX is meaningful other than as a "See, we can do stuff like this too". I don't see folks embracing it significantly [yet--still relatively early days, obviously). What I've seen is people going "Neat!" but then.what? I do think that the management-by-magazine folks are all aTwitter (or is that aX now?) about cloud capabilities because they think they will eliminate the need for capacity management and thus save them money. My bet is maybe on the first, no on the second. But I have nothing to support that other than my gut based on experience. (And I had Thai food for lunch, so gut may be even less reliable than usual!) ... -- Joel C. Ewing -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
One of the big drawbacks to non mainframe clouds is the ease with which they are hacked. AWS & Azure are hacked pretty frequently. https://www.securityweek.com/microsoft-cloud-hack-exposed-more-than-exchange-outlook-emails/ https://cybernews.com/security/amazon-cloud-loses-silver-lining/ Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, February 11, 2024, 6:51 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote: With current technology, Z has the edge for I/O and RAS, but not for CPU. What makes sense depends very much on the business and legal requirements. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Phil Smith III Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2024 3:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech Shmuel wrote: >I was thinking of zCX as hosting containers >The process for deploying virtual machines in z/VM is different >although it also eliminates manual setup that used to be necessary. >i was trying to illustrated that the automation of deployment was not >limited to the cloud. Ah! Gotcha. Sure, containers is containers is containers. But given the expense of IBM zSystems MIPS, it's hard to envision overprovisioning for possible usage spikes the way x86 clusters do. Yes, there's CoD, which is sort of the forerunner to this elastic capacity, but not nearly as automated. To be clear: I'm unconvinced that cloud elasticity is a particularly useful capacity in most serious business use cases. Black Friday (heck, the whole holiday season) maybe, but that's moderately predictable, and CoD or just plain ol' capacity planning can deal with that. Similarly, I'm unconvinced that zCX is meaningful other than as a "See, we can do stuff like this too". I don't see folks embracing it significantly [yet--still relatively early days, obviously). What I've seen is people going "Neat!" but then.what? I do think that the management-by-magazine folks are all aTwitter (or is that aX now?) about cloud capabilities because they think they will eliminate the need for capacity management and thus save them money. My bet is maybe on the first, no on the second. But I have nothing to support that other than my gut based on experience. (And I had Thai food for lunch, so gut may be even less reliable than usual!) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
With current technology, Z has the edge for I/O and RAS, but not for CPU. What makes sense depends very much on the business and legal requirements. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Phil Smith III Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2024 3:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech Shmuel wrote: >I was thinking of zCX as hosting containers >The process for deploying virtual machines in z/VM is different >although it also eliminates manual setup that used to be necessary. >i was trying to illustrated that the automation of deployment was not >limited to the cloud. Ah! Gotcha. Sure, containers is containers is containers. But given the expense of IBM zSystems MIPS, it's hard to envision overprovisioning for possible usage spikes the way x86 clusters do. Yes, there's CoD, which is sort of the forerunner to this elastic capacity, but not nearly as automated. To be clear: I'm unconvinced that cloud elasticity is a particularly useful capacity in most serious business use cases. Black Friday (heck, the whole holiday season) maybe, but that's moderately predictable, and CoD or just plain ol' capacity planning can deal with that. Similarly, I'm unconvinced that zCX is meaningful other than as a "See, we can do stuff like this too". I don't see folks embracing it significantly [yet--still relatively early days, obviously). What I've seen is people going "Neat!" but then.what? I do think that the management-by-magazine folks are all aTwitter (or is that aX now?) about cloud capabilities because they think they will eliminate the need for capacity management and thus save them money. My bet is maybe on the first, no on the second. But I have nothing to support that other than my gut based on experience. (And I had Thai food for lunch, so gut may be even less reliable than usual!) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Shmuel wrote: >I was thinking of zCX as hosting containers >The process for deploying virtual machines in z/VM is different >although it also eliminates manual setup that used to be necessary. >i was trying to illustrated that the automation of deployment was not >limited to the cloud. Ah! Gotcha. Sure, containers is containers is containers. But given the expense of IBM zSystems MIPS, it's hard to envision overprovisioning for possible usage spikes the way x86 clusters do. Yes, there's CoD, which is sort of the forerunner to this elastic capacity, but not nearly as automated. To be clear: I'm unconvinced that cloud elasticity is a particularly useful capacity in most serious business use cases. Black Friday (heck, the whole holiday season) maybe, but that's moderately predictable, and CoD or just plain ol' capacity planning can deal with that. Similarly, I'm unconvinced that zCX is meaningful other than as a "See, we can do stuff like this too". I don't see folks embracing it significantly [yet--still relatively early days, obviously). What I've seen is people going "Neat!" but then.what? I do think that the management-by-magazine folks are all aTwitter (or is that aX now?) about cloud capabilities because they think they will eliminate the need for capacity management and thus save them money. My bet is maybe on the first, no on the second. But I have nothing to support that other than my gut based on experience. (And I had Thai food for lunch, so gut may be even less reliable than usual!) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
I was thinking of zCX as hosting containers The process for deploying virtual machines in z/VM is different although it also eliminates manual setup that used to be necessary. i was trying to illustrated that the automation of deployment was not limited to the cloud. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Phil Smith III Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2024 3:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech Shmuel asked: >How do containers in the cloud differ from containers on the >mainframe? How difficult is it to provision a new z/VM virtual machine >with contemporary software? ow much is just different coverage in the >in-flight magazines versus substantive benefits of the cloud? Just checking: are you considering a z/VM VM (z/VM??) a container? I wouldn't argue with that, just checking. Anyway, it's.different. While z/VM has the "pool" concept, it's not quite the same as "just fire up another container". But at not-too-high an altitude, I'd say they were very much the same. Acourse the IBM zSystems MIPS are still more expensive. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Shmuel asked: >How do containers in the cloud differ from containers on the >mainframe? How difficult is it to provision a new z/VM virtual machine >with contemporary software? ow much is just different coverage in the >in-flight magazines versus substantive benefits of the cloud? Just checking: are you considering a z/VM VM (z/VM??) a container? I wouldn't argue with that, just checking. Anyway, it's.different. While z/VM has the "pool" concept, it's not quite the same as "just fire up another container". But at not-too-high an altitude, I'd say they were very much the same. Acourse the IBM zSystems MIPS are still more expensive. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Confirmation bias. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, February 11, 2024, 11:14 AM, Dave Beagle <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: LOL, new customers were confirmed about a year ago on this very forum. Perhaps your memory is fading? The mainframe is still by far the most secure, which is why companies needing the best security still use it. Also, it can process a trillion web transactions per day and that was in 2019. A huge chunk of Fortune 500 companies use mainframe systems, at least 71%. Credit transactions heavily rely on sophisticated mainframe systems. Globally 90% of credit card transactions happen on mainframe systems. Worldwide, mainframe systems handle 68% of information technology workloads. The “mainframe is dying” crowd has been wrong for 30 years. And will be wrong for another 30. IBM stock is hitting new highs and growing revenue again. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Saturday, February 10, 2024, 9:32 PM, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 19:56:06 -0500, Phil Smith III wrote: > ... about IBM zSystems than other platforms these days either, alas. > This discussion is driven by a mixture of technical expertise and sentiment. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
LOL, new customers were confirmed about a year ago on this very forum. Perhaps your memory is fading? The mainframe is still by far the most secure, which is why companies needing the best security still use it. Also, it can process a trillion web transactions per day and that was in 2019. A huge chunk of Fortune 500 companies use mainframe systems, at least 71%. Credit transactions heavily rely on sophisticated mainframe systems. Globally 90% of credit card transactions happen on mainframe systems. Worldwide, mainframe systems handle 68% of information technology workloads. The “mainframe is dying” crowd has been wrong for 30 years. And will be wrong for another 30. IBM stock is hitting new highs and growing revenue again. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Saturday, February 10, 2024, 9:32 PM, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 19:56:06 -0500, Phil Smith III wrote: > ... about IBM zSystems than other platforms these days either, alas. > This discussion is driven by a mixture of technical expertise and sentiment. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 19:56:06 -0500, Phil Smith III wrote: > ... about IBM zSystems than other platforms these days either, alas. > This discussion is driven by a mixture of technical expertise and sentiment. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
How do containers in the cloud differ from containers on the mainframe? How difficult is it to provision a new z/VM virtual machine with contemporary software? ow much is just different coverage in the in-flight magazines versus substantive benefits of the cloud? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Phil Smith III Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2024 7:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech Bob Bridges wrote: >"...where mainframes' resilience meets the agility of cloud computing." >What is the "agility" of the cloud, exactly? The ability to spin up more instances [of applications that are built that way, obviously] on demand/automatically. For certain very peaky workloads this is a huge win. Not that I'm in any way arguing that these are important applications in the real world, but things like Pinterest and Instagram at least started this way in AWS or GCP, still use the model (albeit presumably on their own cloud now): when something big happens and usage blows up, instead of just getting dog-slow or crashing, more instances get spun up and things hum along. Yes, there are a ton of assumptions involved there-capacity/competence/security/etc. of the cloud provider. I'm very chary of public cloud for "real work" for this reason. But if you look at it at the right angle (perhaps squinting a lot!), you can see that-again, for the right workloads-it gets you out of the business of provisioning/capacity management/etc. Of course it also encourages inefficient code, but ?maybe? that's OK (again, in the right use cases). One of the biggest problems, of course, is that folks don't understand the caveats, go in with both feet first, and get burned. All of the CSPs, for example, offer some sort of cryptographic service. None of them are BYOK (Bring Your Own Key)-in other words, you're trusting the service itself not to attack you or to get compromised and allow an attack. WCGW? For software vendors, the attraction is that they don't have to build/manage as much of the platform as they do when they provide a fully functional server. All that really does is move that requirement from the vendor (once) to each customer, so it's a win for the vendor and a loss for the customer. That is, the customer has to do all the vulnerability scanning, patching, etc., instead of having the vendor do the heavy lifting (the wise customer does the scanning anyway, but then expects the vendor to provide the updates.) I keep waiting for the customer world to figure this out; hasn't happened yet AFAICT. Weird. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Dave Beagle wrote: >Large amounts of data, including AI, will require processing power >(and security) unlike anything DP has seen. Perfect for the mainframe. >And, there ARE new mainframe shops. "processing power"-the mainframe lost that battle long ago. "security"-there's nothing inherently more secure about IBM zSystems than other platforms these days either, alas. New mainframe shops? As the saying goes, "Pics or it didn't happen". I'd be thrilled to learn that these exist! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Bob Bridges wrote: >"...where mainframes' resilience meets the agility of cloud computing." >What is the "agility" of the cloud, exactly? The ability to spin up more instances [of applications that are built that way, obviously] on demand/automatically. For certain very peaky workloads this is a huge win. Not that I'm in any way arguing that these are important applications in the real world, but things like Pinterest and Instagram at least started this way in AWS or GCP, still use the model (albeit presumably on their own cloud now): when something big happens and usage blows up, instead of just getting dog-slow or crashing, more instances get spun up and things hum along. Yes, there are a ton of assumptions involved there-capacity/competence/security/etc. of the cloud provider. I'm very chary of public cloud for "real work" for this reason. But if you look at it at the right angle (perhaps squinting a lot!), you can see that-again, for the right workloads-it gets you out of the business of provisioning/capacity management/etc. Of course it also encourages inefficient code, but ?maybe? that's OK (again, in the right use cases). One of the biggest problems, of course, is that folks don't understand the caveats, go in with both feet first, and get burned. All of the CSPs, for example, offer some sort of cryptographic service. None of them are BYOK (Bring Your Own Key)-in other words, you're trusting the service itself not to attack you or to get compromised and allow an attack. WCGW? For software vendors, the attraction is that they don't have to build/manage as much of the platform as they do when they provide a fully functional server. All that really does is move that requirement from the vendor (once) to each customer, so it's a win for the vendor and a loss for the customer. That is, the customer has to do all the vulnerability scanning, patching, etc., instead of having the vendor do the heavy lifting (the wise customer does the scanning anyway, but then expects the vendor to provide the updates.) I keep waiting for the customer world to figure this out; hasn't happened yet AFAICT. Weird. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
It's in the intrinsic angular momentum. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob Bridges <0587168ababf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2024 3:09 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech "...where mainframes’ resilience meets the agility of cloud computing." What is the "agility" of the cloud, exactly? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Always look a gift horse in the mouth. It may have hoof-and-mouth disease. -Bob Bridges, 1977 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Regan Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 06:35 https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673/banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
"...where mainframes’ resilience meets the agility of cloud computing." What is the "agility" of the cloud, exactly? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Always look a gift horse in the mouth. It may have hoof-and-mouth disease. -Bob Bridges, 1977 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Regan Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 06:35 https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673/banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Lets have a thought exercise: WAS Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Who wants to have a thought exercise where we can see where we end up. In early wood frame constrution, joins were done with things like friction dovetails and Pegs. Along comes the next techology - metal.Look at the new thing - Nails. Lets use them to join our wood. Metal technology changes --- and we get Screws. An everybody rejoices at the wonderful new uses. Parallels are glue and its family But wait, how do we join metals --- oh yeah... metal pegs (rivets)... Pegs can still work, and look at this new Bolt thing. With parallels called welding. - NOW --- Everybody step back from your current comfort zone. Be it mainframe or server. On-siteor Cloud. And we want to 'DO' something using computers. What I believe is that any technology can be beaten into shape to perform the task with enough effort and time. The problems start when humans get involved. ALL humans have a bias to use what they find easiest and know best. Put two or more groups of these to the task and you will get many many designs... all of them using the tools the designer knows best. Then you have to "pick a winner" and go with that.The decision may be based on categories totally outside the technology arguements (like budgets or legal requirements or the manager going out to lunch with a sales rep). Time passes and new technologies come along... New thoughts on how to accoimplish the task... With everyone arguing that "My" way is the best for an entire list of reasons that "I" view as important. The wars start when what "I" think is important is not what "You" think is important. This can degrade into personal attacks and calling the competitor degrading names. - Now for the thought exercise: IF we apply this view to all of the newsgroups, web articles, sales materials and water cooler chats.Can you find reasons why Tasks don't get done and are always being redone? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Large amounts of data, including AI, will require processing power (and security) unlike anything DP has seen. Perfect for the mainframe. And, there ARE new mainframe shops. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Friday, February 9, 2024, 7:11 PM, Phil Smith III wrote: roscoe5 asked: >how do you see the future for mainframes? >Increasing, steady, declining, . [Editorializing ahead!] As usual, "It depends". There are fewer mainframe shops than there were, but more usage. A simple example: consider payment processors, many (not all) of whom have at least some IBM zSystems. Recent consolidation there (multi-billion-dollar deals): FIS bought Worldpay; Fiserv bought First Data; Global Payments bought Heartland and TSYS. Seven companies are now three. So there's your "fewer customers". Meanwhile, of course, transaction volumes at these and other committed companies are still growing. So there's your "more usage". What I assume will happen over time is that along with continued consolidation, some shops will move off because some bright young spark is convinced it will be better. Doesn't mean they're right, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. Even when that doesn't happen, various other evolution will chip away at some usage when it becomes (or, again, SEEMS to become) wiser to move some processing off. And essentially nobody is moving new processing TO the mainframe, because reasons. At the same time, while the smarter companies get it and see no reason to move, there aren't a significant number of new mainframe shops. A few LinuxONEs, but zero new z/OS or z/VM or z/VSE or z/TPF shops. I don't see any way this trend will reverse, though by the same token I don't see the mainframe going away anytime soon. It will just become more and more of a niche market of large systems-sort of strange, "big niche"! The aging of the mainframe community isn't help, of course. In some ways it looks (at the right distance) like a return to the early days of computing, where big iron shops were few but serious. Of course then it was big iron vs. nothing; now it's big iron vs. racks, cloud, etc. Maybe AI will reverse this trend, though I personally don't see it. Like many current Internet services, AI usage looks like it will largely comprise two things: building the LLM (which is expensive but not real-time and can retry on failure, so might as well use cheap MIPS) and then querying/using the LLM (which is real-time but not critical, so might as well use cheap MIPS). Plus there's been a whole shift from "computers should work" to "computers should *mostly* work". When your Google search fails or your Instagram page doesn't load, you shrug and try again. When your credit card transaction doesn't go through, neither you nor the merchant just shrug. But you're starting to-when it's a website and the transaction fails, you scowl but try it again, and if it works that time, you forget about it. We're being conditioned to accept mediocrity, and AI in its current incarnation doesn't appear to be ready to reverse that. It's depressing. Meanwhile, a colleague happened to send me this: https://www.itpro.com/cloud/cloud-computing/cloud-computing-or-mainframe-why-the-pendulum-might-be-swinging-back-in-the-age-of-hybrid-strategies-and-generative-ai which is a bit more cheerful, albeit more "the leak is slowing" than "things are improving". -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
roscoe5 asked: >how do you see the future for mainframes? >Increasing, steady, declining, . [Editorializing ahead!] As usual, "It depends". There are fewer mainframe shops than there were, but more usage. A simple example: consider payment processors, many (not all) of whom have at least some IBM zSystems. Recent consolidation there (multi-billion-dollar deals): FIS bought Worldpay; Fiserv bought First Data; Global Payments bought Heartland and TSYS. Seven companies are now three. So there's your "fewer customers". Meanwhile, of course, transaction volumes at these and other committed companies are still growing. So there's your "more usage". What I assume will happen over time is that along with continued consolidation, some shops will move off because some bright young spark is convinced it will be better. Doesn't mean they're right, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. Even when that doesn't happen, various other evolution will chip away at some usage when it becomes (or, again, SEEMS to become) wiser to move some processing off. And essentially nobody is moving new processing TO the mainframe, because reasons. At the same time, while the smarter companies get it and see no reason to move, there aren't a significant number of new mainframe shops. A few LinuxONEs, but zero new z/OS or z/VM or z/VSE or z/TPF shops. I don't see any way this trend will reverse, though by the same token I don't see the mainframe going away anytime soon. It will just become more and more of a niche market of large systems-sort of strange, "big niche"! The aging of the mainframe community isn't help, of course. In some ways it looks (at the right distance) like a return to the early days of computing, where big iron shops were few but serious. Of course then it was big iron vs. nothing; now it's big iron vs. racks, cloud, etc. Maybe AI will reverse this trend, though I personally don't see it. Like many current Internet services, AI usage looks like it will largely comprise two things: building the LLM (which is expensive but not real-time and can retry on failure, so might as well use cheap MIPS) and then querying/using the LLM (which is real-time but not critical, so might as well use cheap MIPS). Plus there's been a whole shift from "computers should work" to "computers should *mostly* work". When your Google search fails or your Instagram page doesn't load, you shrug and try again. When your credit card transaction doesn't go through, neither you nor the merchant just shrug. But you're starting to-when it's a website and the transaction fails, you scowl but try it again, and if it works that time, you forget about it. We're being conditioned to accept mediocrity, and AI in its current incarnation doesn't appear to be ready to reverse that. It's depressing. Meanwhile, a colleague happened to send me this: https://www.itpro.com/cloud/cloud-computing/cloud-computing-or-mainframe-why-the-pendulum-might-be-swinging-back-in-the-age-of-hybrid-strategies-and-generative-ai which is a bit more cheerful, albeit more "the leak is slowing" than "things are improving". -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
More companies in their 20th year of their three year plan to get off the mainframe? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Increasing. More transactions on the mainframe this year than last, more next year than this year. Continuing for decades. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Friday, February 9, 2024, 12:46 PM, roscoe5 <056b62686b81-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: That would improve my retirement date! All joking aside, we’ve heard that mainframes will be going away for some time. And I assume many/most of us have some mainframe bias. But based on accounts, or transactions, or whatever … how do you see the future for mainframes? Increasing, steady, declining, … (less simplistic answers are welcome). Sent from [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) for iOS On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 12:31 PM, Tony Harminc <[t...@harminc.net](mailto:On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 12:31 PM, Tony Harminc < wrote: > On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 at 06:35, Mark Regan < > 058035dd6b20-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> >> https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673/banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech > > Great! Maybe an AI can hallucinate a $million into my > bank-account-in-the-cloud. And then hopefully be unable to explain itself... > > Tony H. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
As IBM stock hits new highs. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Friday, February 9, 2024, 1:40 PM, Pommier, Rex wrote: Or more likely it'll hallucinate you on the wrong side of the fence (I mean, you're a mainframer after all, and that's bad...) and your bank-account-in-the-cloud funds will vanish without a trace. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 11:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 at 06:35, Mark Regan < 058035dd6b20-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673 > /banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6e > LE0Fj!tLr6t9f_YDLnxiyLJH-6ow1HEjTZWJ5z2DnmHImDrhr9_JpV0t51xKyqwrHd7jPF > 8URmbfzgR31WAtMe$ Great! Maybe an AI can hallucinate a $million into my bank-account-in-the-cloud. And then hopefully be unable to explain itself... Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
Or more likely it'll hallucinate you on the wrong side of the fence (I mean, you're a mainframer after all, and that's bad...) and your bank-account-in-the-cloud funds will vanish without a trace. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 11:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 at 06:35, Mark Regan < 058035dd6b20-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673 > /banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6e > LE0Fj!tLr6t9f_YDLnxiyLJH-6ow1HEjTZWJ5z2DnmHImDrhr9_JpV0t51xKyqwrHd7jPF > 8URmbfzgR31WAtMe$ Great! Maybe an AI can hallucinate a $million into my bank-account-in-the-cloud. And then hopefully be unable to explain itself... Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
That would improve my retirement date! All joking aside, we’ve heard that mainframes will be going away for some time. And I assume many/most of us have some mainframe bias. But based on accounts, or transactions, or whatever … how do you see the future for mainframes? Increasing, steady, declining, … (less simplistic answers are welcome). Sent from [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) for iOS On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 12:31 PM, Tony Harminc <[t...@harminc.net](mailto:On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 12:31 PM, Tony Harminc < wrote: > On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 at 06:35, Mark Regan < > 058035dd6b20-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> >> https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673/banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech > > Great! Maybe an AI can hallucinate a $million into my > bank-account-in-the-cloud. And then hopefully be unable to explain itself... > > Tony H. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 at 06:35, Mark Regan < 058035dd6b20-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673/banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech Great! Maybe an AI can hallucinate a $million into my bank-account-in-the-cloud. And then hopefully be unable to explain itself... Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Fwd: Banks migrate from mainframes to AI-driven cloud tech
https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/43673/banks-migrate-from-mainframes-to-ai-driven-cloud-tech Regards, Mark Regan, K8MTR General, EN80tg CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1991), RUENAAA/CNO WASHINGTON DC//OP-009QCP (1976-1979) Nationwide Insurance, Retired (1986-2017), z/OS Network Infrastructure Engineering Consultant Email: marktre...@gmail.com <mailto:marktre...@gmail.com> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
