Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Joel C. Ewing]

And no one seems to have mentioned that when an ERROR hold is first put
on one of the PTFs in your  chain, it rarely contains a resolving PTF
initially - that usually gets added later; so if you run your check
immediately after the HOLD is released, you know there is an APAR
problem you may need to resolve, but not what PTF resolves it.  And if
you run your check one day before the HOLD is issued, you may have a
potential problem, but just not know it.   As someone pointed out, this
is always an iterative process -- at any given point in time there are
always errors that haven't been discovered and errors that don't yet
have a resolving PTF.  If you stay roughly even with the pack, any
really serious/fatal bugs should be known and avoided, but there will
unavoidably always be some minor bugs present.   That's why you always
test after major maintenance just to be sure one of those minor bugs
isn't a critical issue in your environment.   It really makes little
difference whether you perform the search using your reasonably current
CSI PTF & HOLD data or whether IBM does it with their most current
data:  there is always the chance for undiscovered bugs that might be
more significant in your particular environment.
    Joel C Ewing

On 03/16/2018 08:32 AM, Jerry Callen wrote:
>>> Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
>>> given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up 
>>> to 
>>> the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
>>> could require several iterations.
>> I have used GROUPEXTEND since being introduced and can't recall ever being
>> successful in attaining full resolution with one pull.
>>
>> It always took several pulls (iterations) to attain a full resolution.
> It sounds to me as if the problem is that the SYSMODs identified by
> GROUPEXTEND can have their own REQs, which are (of course) not in the
> CSI until they get RECEIVEd.
>
> Is anyone aware of an IBM-provided REST API to the entire SYSMOD
> database? If you had that, you could presumably use that in
> conjunction with the SMP "GIMAPI" to construct the full graph.
>
> You could probably html-scrape content from Service Link, but that
> seems hopelessly primitive.
>
> I smell a nice science experiment brewing...
>
> -- Jerry
>
>

-- 
Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org 

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 08:32:12 -0500, Jerry Callen wrote:

>>> Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
>>> given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up 
>>> to 
>>> the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
>>> could require several iterations.
>
>> I have used GROUPEXTEND since being introduced and can't recall ever being
>> successful in attaining full resolution with one pull.
>> 
>> It always took several pulls (iterations) to attain a full resolution.
>
>It sounds to me as if the problem is that the SYSMODs identified by
>GROUPEXTEND can have their own REQs, which are (of course) not in the
>CSI until they get RECEIVEd.
>
>Is anyone aware of an IBM-provided REST API to the entire SYSMOD
>database? If you had that, you could presumably use that in
>conjunction with the SMP "GIMAPI" to construct the full graph.

What's wrong with RECEIVE ORDER? AFAIK, it generates a file containing a 
list (bitmap) of all of the available PTFs on your system, which is used to 
package all of the maintenance that you need.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Jerry Callen]

>> Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
>> given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up to 
>> the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
>> could require several iterations.

> I have used GROUPEXTEND since being introduced and can't recall ever being
> successful in attaining full resolution with one pull.
> 
> It always took several pulls (iterations) to attain a full resolution.

It sounds to me as if the problem is that the SYSMODs identified by
GROUPEXTEND can have their own REQs, which are (of course) not in the
CSI until they get RECEIVEd.

Is anyone aware of an IBM-provided REST API to the entire SYSMOD
database? If you had that, you could presumably use that in
conjunction with the SMP "GIMAPI" to construct the full graph.

You could probably html-scrape content from Service Link, but that
seems hopelessly primitive.

I smell a nice science experiment brewing...

-- Jerry

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Giliad Wilf]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:53:09 -0500, Paul Gilmartin  wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:28:57 -0500, Giliad Wilf wrote:
>> 
>>Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
>>given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up to 
>>the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
>>could require several iterations.
>>
>>Is there a shorter path to resolving all requirements other than ship the 
>>contents of your CSI to a support center for analysis and preparing a list of
>>all requirements?
>> 
>Of course the information is in the CSI.
>
>APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND .
>
>... and read the reports produced.
>
>-- gil
>

I have used GROUPEXTEND since being introduced and can't recall ever being
successful in attaining full resolution with one pull.

It always took several pulls (iterations) to attain a full resolution.

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RECEIVE ORDER from CA WAS(RE: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?)

[Longabaugh, Robert E]

We do offer RECEIVE order now for PTFs and holddata.  Here is information on 
getting started:  
https://support.ca.com/us/product-content/status/announcement-documents/2018/ca-smp-e-receive-order---maintenance-delivery-made-easy.html
 

Having said that, we are going have a brief period of limited availability this 
weekend for a hardware upgrade. 
https://support.ca.com/us/product-content/status/announcement-documents/2018/internet-service-retrieval-using-smp-e-receive-order-outage.html
 During this period, PTFs, APARs, and holddata will continue to be available on 
CA Support Online, which means MSM will be able to perform its acquisition task 
via Support Online.

We make both Error Holddata and FIXCAT Holddata available, plus HIPER and PRP 
source IDs, so if all of that is received into the CSI, REPORT MISSINGFIX would 
provide reliable information.

Bob Longabaugh
CA Technologies



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 1:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full 
resolution of researched PTFs?

We run a nightly job for every CSI to pull all enhanced HoldData and PTFs for 
each IBM CSI so we will have both all closed PTF's and also any relevant 
Holddata/PE information. This means our CSI are as current as then can be when 
doing Apply Check/Applys (but doesn't stop anything going PE'd the next day)

For the 3rd Party software we would LOVE to be in the same position - CA is 
getting closer but not quite there yet.


Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager - Safeway
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
03/15/2018 10:51:24 AM:

> From: Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 03/15/2018 10:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for 
> full resolution of researched PTFs?
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 12:30:10 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
> >Water is wet.  The sky is blue.  APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND reports only
the
> >information available to it.
>
> Right, but you asserted that "the information is in the CSI" for 
> "collecting all missing items that prevent resolution".
>
> --
> Tom Marchant
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Seymour J Metz]

Receive everything, including the HOLDDATA. Then, and only then, will your CSI 
have everything it needs to resolve your query.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Giliad Wilf <00d50942efa9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 12:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full 
resolution of researched PTFs?

Hi All,

Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up to
the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
could require several iterations.

Is there a shorter path to resolving all requirements other than ship the
contents of your CSI to a support center for analysis and preparing a list of
all requirements?

I'm not talking about IBM software. It is about maintenance of another
vendor's software.

People here at our shop think all the information required for a full resolution
is already in the CSI and only needs to be gleaned and analyzed in order to
prepare a final list of missing items, while I think otherwise and maintain that
the CSI alone does not contain all the info required for compiling such a list.
You have to have access to a repository style IBM's Enhanced HOLDDATA,
which this vendor does not have, you have to pull and receive HOLDDATA,
and you might still have to iterate several times before full resolution is
attained.

Who is right?

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Edward Finnell]

Whenever I get in trouble with an APAR I let SMP/E figure it out.


 APPLY S(APAR_ID) CHECK GROUPEXTEND.
 
In a message dated 3/15/2018 1:12:32 PM Central Standard Time, 
cvitu...@hughes.net writes:

 
yup... DUH!

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Jerry Whitteridge]

We run a nightly job for every CSI to pull all enhanced HoldData and PTFs
for each IBM CSI so we will have both all closed PTF's and also any
relevant Holddata/PE information. This means our CSI are as current as then
can be when doing Apply Check/Applys (but doesn't stop anything going PE'd
the next day)

For the 3rd Party software we would LOVE to be in the same position - CA is
getting closer but not quite there yet.


Jerry Whitteridge
Delivery Manager - Safeway
602 527 4871 Mobile
jerry.whitteri...@ibm.com

IBM Services

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
03/15/2018 10:51:24 AM:

> From: Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 03/15/2018 10:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required
> for full resolution of researched PTFs?
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 12:30:10 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
> >Water is wet.  The sky is blue.  APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND reports only
the
> >information available to it.
>
> Right, but you asserted that "the information is in the CSI" for
> "collecting all
> missing items that prevent resolution".
>
> --
> Tom Marchant
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Carmen Vitullo]

yup... DUH! 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Tom Marchant" <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 1:05:14 PM 
Subject: Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full 
resolution of researched PTFs? 

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 14:01:09 -0400, Carmen Vitullo wrote: 

>but if you maintain your SMPLOG's.. not easy but maybe you can track the PTF 
>chain from there? 

Not for PTFs that have never been received. 

-- 
Tom Marchant 

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Tom Marchant]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 14:01:09 -0400, Carmen Vitullo wrote:

>but if you maintain your SMPLOG's.. not easy but maybe you can track the PTF 
>chain from there?

Not for PTFs that have never been received.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Carmen Vitullo]

but if you maintain your SMPLOG's.. not easy but maybe you can track the PTF 
chain from there? 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Tom Marchant" <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 12:51:24 PM 
Subject: Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full 
resolution of researched PTFs? 

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 12:30:10 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: 

>Water is wet. The sky is blue. APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND reports only the 
>information available to it. 

Right, but you asserted that "the information is in the CSI" for "collecting 
all 
missing items that prevent resolution". 

-- 
Tom Marchant 

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Tom Marchant]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 12:30:10 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

>Water is wet.  The sky is blue.  APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND reports only the
>information available to it.

Right, but you asserted that "the information is in the CSI" for "collecting 
all 
missing items that prevent resolution".

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[ITschak Mugzach]

Paul,
true, but the OP asked who is right, and it is him. SMP will only report on
data stored in it.

ITschak

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 7:30 PM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 19:19:39 +0200, ITschak Mugzach wrote:
>
> >​CSI information is created by receive. All dependencies are maintained in
> >PTF pre, sup, coex, etc. If you don't receive the PTF, the chain is
> broken.
> >The only way to feed this info is by receive the PTFs (and HOLDDATA).
> >
> Water is wet.  The sky is blue.  APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND reports only the
> information available to it.
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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>



-- 
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **|  *

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 19:19:39 +0200, ITschak Mugzach wrote:

>​CSI information is created by receive. All dependencies are maintained in
>PTF pre, sup, coex, etc. If you don't receive the PTF, the chain is broken.
>The only way to feed this info is by receive the PTFs (and HOLDDATA).
> 
Water is wet.  The sky is blue.  APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND reports only the
information available to it.

-- gil

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[ITschak Mugzach]

​CSI information is created by receive. All dependencies are maintained in
PTF pre, sup, coex, etc. If you don't receive the PTF, the chain is broken.
The only way to feed this info is by receive the PTFs (and HOLDDATA).

ITschak

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 6:53 PM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:28:57 -0500, Giliad Wilf wrote:
> >
> >Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
> >given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up
> to
> >the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
> >could require several iterations.
> >
> >Is there a shorter path to resolving all requirements other than ship the
> >contents of your CSI to a support center for analysis and preparing a
> list of
> >all requirements?
> >
> Of course the information is in the CSI.
>
> APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND .
>
> ... and read the reports produced.
>
> -- gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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-- 
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **|  *

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Tom Marchant]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:53:09 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:28:57 -0500, Giliad Wilf wrote:
>>
>>Is there a shorter path to resolving all requirements other than ship the 
>>contents of your CSI to a support center for analysis and preparing a list of
>>all requirements?
>> 
>Of course the information is in the CSI.
>
>APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND .
>
>... and read the reports produced.

Not unless all the PTFs have already been received.

Consider the case where you have PTF A applied.
PTF B prereqs PTF A.
PTF C prereqs PTF B.
PTF C reqs PTF D.
PTF E prereqs PTF C.
You have PTF E in your global zone, but neither B, C, nor D.

Your APPLY CHECK will tell you that you need PTF C, but since you don't have 
PTF C, SMP has no way to determine that PTFs B and D are also required.

However, from a list of the PTFs in your target and global zones, the vendor 
has enough information to determine all of the PTFs that are needed.

HOLDDATA doesn't help either. Enhanced holddata does not contain PRE, REQ, 
or SUP information.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:28:57 -0500, Giliad Wilf wrote:
> 
>Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
>given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up to 
>the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
>could require several iterations.
>
>Is there a shorter path to resolving all requirements other than ship the 
>contents of your CSI to a support center for analysis and preparing a list of
>all requirements?
> 
Of course the information is in the CSI.

APPLY CHECK GROUPEXTEND .

... and read the reports produced.

-- gil

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Re: Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[ITschak Mugzach]

Gilad,
You are  right. The ptf chain between csi ptf level and the ptf you want to
apply might be broken as some ptfs might be missing. All chain logic is
maintained in ptf pre, req, sup etc staements.

ITschak

בתאריך 15 במרץ 2018 18:29,‏ "Giliad Wilf" <
00d50942efa9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> כתב:

Hi All,

Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up to
the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
could require several iterations.

Is there a shorter path to resolving all requirements other than ship the
contents of your CSI to a support center for analysis and preparing a list
of
all requirements?

I'm not talking about IBM software. It is about maintenance of another
vendor's software.

People here at our shop think all the information required for a full
resolution
is already in the CSI and only needs to be gleaned and analyzed in order to
prepare a final list of missing items, while I think otherwise and maintain
that
the CSI alone does not contain all the info required for compiling such a
list.
You have to have access to a repository style IBM's Enhanced HOLDDATA,
which this vendor does not have, you have to pull and receive HOLDDATA,
and you might still have to iterate several times before full resolution is
attained.

Who is right?

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Can the CSI info alone produce a final list required for full resolution of researched PTFs?

[Giliad Wilf]

Hi All,
 
Normally, the process of resolving all REQ/PREREQ/IFREQ requirements for
given PTF(s) and collecting all missing items that prevent resolution, up to 
the point where APPLY CHECK suggests that actual APPLY could be successful
could require several iterations.

Is there a shorter path to resolving all requirements other than ship the 
contents of your CSI to a support center for analysis and preparing a list of
all requirements?

I'm not talking about IBM software. It is about maintenance of another 
vendor's software.

People here at our shop think all the information required for a full 
resolution 
is already in the CSI and only needs to be gleaned and analyzed in order to 
prepare a final list of missing items, while I think otherwise and maintain that
the CSI alone does not contain all the info required for compiling such a list.
You have to have access to a repository style IBM's Enhanced HOLDDATA, 
which this vendor does not have, you have to pull and receive HOLDDATA, 
and you might still have to iterate several times before full resolution is 
attained.

Who is right?

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