Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-13 Thread Norbert Friemel 
On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:43:23 +0200, R.S. wrote:

> Has anyone a photo of 3088?

https://ia902603.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/29/items/bitsavers_ibm370feGCEquipmentInstallationPhysicalPlanningMar_20235151/GC22-7064-13_Input_Output_Equipment_Installation_Physical_Planning_Mar93_jp2.zip&file=GC22-7064-13_Input_Output_Equipment_Installation_Physical_Planning_Mar93_jp2/GC22-7064-13_Input_Output_Equipment_Installation_Physical_Planning_Mar93_0023.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0

or
page 24 (3088-1) 
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/fe/GC22-7064-13_Input_Output_Equipment_Installation_Physical_Planning_Mar93.pdf

Norbert Friemel
 

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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-13 Thread R.S. 

Has anyone a photo of 3088?

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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler 
norman.hollan...@desertwiz.biz (Norman.Hollander) writes:
> 3088 Multi-System Channel-to-Channel I/O Control Unit.  Bus and Tag,
> connecting 4 CPUs (IIRC).  We used these (had to have 2 for
> redundancy) for JES2, VTAM, and CA-MIM connectivity. Also used to
> connect to VM systems (PVM, RSCS, and CA-MIM). Obsoleted by ESCON and
> Directors.  May have a picture somewhere with a 3088 and 9032 (ESCON
> director).  Without the 3088, you needed many dedicated channels on
> each processor.

3088/trouter could have up to eight arms. my wife had been con'ed into
going to POK to be in charge of loosely-coupled architecture ...  she
wanted to have several enhancements for 3088/trouter (before announced)
and was unable to get the enhancements to make it much more efficient.
One of the reasons to her leaving ... along with frequent battles with
the communication group trying to force her into using SNA/VTAM for
loosely coupled operation ... and little uptake of her full
"peer-coupled shared data architecture" (except for IMS hot-standby,
until sysplex). some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#shareddata

an example was an internal vm370 4341 8-way cluster effort ... that did
a tweak and used full-duplex cluster coordination protocol with
3088/trouter.  The communication group forced them to SNA/VTAM before
release for customers, cluster coordination operations that had run in
subsecond elapsed time was then taking upwards of 30seconds elapsed time
over SNA/VTAM.

I've periodically mentioned in 1980, getting con'ed into doing channel
extender support. The STL lab. was bursting at the seams and they were
moving 300 people from the IMS group to offsite bldg ... with remote
access back to the STL datacenter. The group had been offerred remote
3270s ... but found the human factors intolerable (compared to what they
had been use to with local 3270 direct channel attached
controllers). The channel extended box allowed downloading channel
programs to the remote site channel emulator ... enormously reducing the
channel protocol chatter latency. this included using multiple
subchannel addresses for full-duplex operations (asynchronous,
continuous incoming and outgoing). some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#channel.extender

The hardware vendor tried to get IBM to let them release my support to
customers ... but there was a group in POK playing with some serial
stuff and they were afraid if it was in the market, it would make it
harder to get their stuff released.

A little later in the early 80s, NCAR
http://ncar.ucar.edu/

did a supercomputer filesystem using the same vendor hardware. They
had IBM 370 as NAS (network attached storage) controller with IBM DASD
... DASD controllers connected to the vendors emulated channel.
Supercomputers would use the hardware as network interface to talk to
IBM mainframe to request data. The IBM mainframe would download the
channel program to the channel emulator box and then return the
"handle" for the channel program to the requesting supercomputer. The
supercomputers would then directly execute the channel program (data
flowed directly between supercomputer and IBM DASD, with only IBM
mainframe being involved in the control operation, the same hardware
operates as both CTCA, processor-to-processor as well as
processor-to-controller and included family of boxes interfacing to
different kinds of processors, not just ibm mainframes). I would be
periodically be contacted by Boulder branch because I was considered
the IBM expert on the vendor hardware. I was being asked IBM DASD
questions because bldg. 14 disk engineering lab had also con'ed me
into periodically playing disk engineer ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk

Later in 1988, I was asked to help LLNL
https://www.llnl.gov/

standardize some serial stuff they were working with ... which quickly
becomes fibre channel standard ... it included sending i/o programs to
remote end for execution and continuous, asynchronous incoming and
outgoing (significantly reducing protocol overhead latency). The NCAR
NAS stuff was also standardized as "3rd party transfers".  By the time
the POK serial stuff was released in 1990 with ES/9000 as ESCON, it
was already obsolete.

Then some of the POK channel engineers get involved with fibre channel
standard ... and define an enormously heavyweight protocol that reduces
native FCS throughput that is eventually released as FICON ... some past
posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon

trivia ... in the 80s, concern about US competitiveness in the world
motivated congress to passed legislation (including changing some
anti-trust provisions) making it easier for gov. agencies and national
labs. to work with companies to commercialize gov. technology (including
several things from LLNL).

I've mentioned before in the late 80s, a senior disk engineer gets a
talk scheduled at annual, world-wide, internal communication group
conference

Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Tom Marchant 
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 09:17:31 -0700, Norman.Hollander wrote:

>3088 Multi-System Channel-to-Channel I/O Control Unit. 
>Bus and Tag, connecting 4 CPUs (IIRC).

I thought I remembered 8 channel connections. I found this in the 
OS/390 2.10 GRS Planning manual:

Model A1 can connect two systems through up to 63 data links.
Model 1 can connect up to four systems through up to 126 data links.
Model 2 can connect up to eight systems through up to 252 data links.

ISTR it was sometimes referred to as an "octopus".

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Ted MacNEIL 
Now I remember!
In 1981, I had to go in when I was on nights (mornings) and switch all the 
printers over.

-
-teD
-
  Original Message  
From: Norman.Hollander
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

3088 Multi-System Channel-to-Channel I/O Control Unit. Bus and Tag, connecting 
4 CPUs (IIRC).
We used these (had to have 2 for redundancy) for JES2, VTAM, and CA-MIM 
connectivity. Also
used to connect to VM systems (PVM, RSCS, and CA-MIM). Obsoleted by ESCON and 
Directors.
May have a picture somewhere with a 3088 and 9032 (ESCON director). Without the 
3088, you
needed many dedicated channels on each processor.

zNorman

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 7:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

Yep. That's it. Thanks for remembering. We were still using one when I left my 
previous position in 1995 with a 3090 400E processor.

Mark Jacobs

> Gross, Randall [PRI-1PP] <mailto:randy.gr...@primerica.com>
> June 12, 2015 at 10:05 AM
> IBM 3088 CTC
>
> Global Resource Serialization
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 10:02 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 
> 80s)
>
> I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
> communications using bus and tag cables.
>
> Mark Jacobs
>
>
> Mark Jacobs - Listserv <mailto:mark.jac...@custserv.com> June 12, 2015 
> at 10:02 AM I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
> communications using bus and tag cables.
>
> Mark Jacobs
>
>
> Elardus Engelbrecht <mailto:elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za>
> June 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM
>
> I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 
> 3380, 3090, 3420 and such animals.
>
> But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?
>
> Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all 
> [useless] info about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details 
> about that device.
>
> Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the 
> XCF and such things?
>
> TIA!
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> --
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> Please be alert for any emails that may ask you for login information 
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Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Technology and Product Engineering

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Norman.Hollander 
3088 Multi-System Channel-to-Channel I/O Control Unit.  Bus and Tag, connecting 
4 CPUs (IIRC).
We used these (had to have 2 for redundancy) for JES2, VTAM, and CA-MIM 
connectivity. Also
used to connect to VM systems (PVM, RSCS, and CA-MIM). Obsoleted by ESCON and 
Directors.
May have a picture somewhere with a 3088 and 9032 (ESCON director).  Without 
the 3088, you
needed many dedicated channels on each processor.

zNorman

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 7:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

Yep. That's it. Thanks for remembering.  We were still using one when I left my 
previous position in 1995 with a 3090 400E processor.

Mark Jacobs

> Gross, Randall [PRI-1PP] <mailto:randy.gr...@primerica.com>
> June 12, 2015 at 10:05 AM
> IBM 3088 CTC
>
> Global Resource Serialization
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 10:02 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 
> 80s)
>
> I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
> communications using bus and tag cables.
>
> Mark Jacobs
>
>
> Mark Jacobs - Listserv <mailto:mark.jac...@custserv.com> June 12, 2015 
> at 10:02 AM I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
> communications using bus and tag cables.
>
> Mark Jacobs
>
>
> Elardus Engelbrecht <mailto:elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za>
> June 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM
>
> I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 
> 3380, 3090, 3420 and such animals.
>
> But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?
>
> Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all 
> [useless] info about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details 
> about that device.
>
> Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the 
> XCF and such things?
>
> TIA!
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> Please be alert for any emails that may ask you for login information 
> or directs you to login via a link. If you believe this message is a 
> phish or aren't sure whether this message is trustworthy, please send 
> the original message as an attachment to 'phish...@timeinc.com'.
>

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Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Technology and Product Engineering

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht 
Richard Pinion wrote:
>The IBM mainframe emulator Hercules has CTC 3088 functionality.  I think that 
>is used for TCP/IP.

Mark Jacobs wrote:
>Yep. That's it. Thanks for remembering.  We were still using one when I left 
>my previous position in 1995 with a 3090 400E processor.

Gross, Randall wrote:
> IBM 3088 CTC

That is it! Thanks to all.

Now to return to you. There is a 11 MB, 256 pages, PDF with this name: 

'GC22-7064-10_IO_Equipment_Installation_Physical_Planning_Jul86.pdf'

Just Google it and you will get many copies of that PDF in various sites 
including the one bitsavers for example.

example: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/370/fe/

That PDF describes this thing on page 18 and other equipment too. Photos 
(somewhat bad but Ok) are also included.

The top of the 3088 described in the doc matches the one in the YouTube video.

Oh, z/VM and many other IBM products currently available still support that 
device for backward compatibility purposes.

Thanks again!

Groete / Greeting
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Richard Pinion 
The IBM mainframe emulator Hercules has CTC 3088 functionality.  I think
that is used for TCP/IP.



--- mark.jac...@custserv.com wrote:

From: Mark Jacobs - Listserv 
To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:09:45 -0400

Yep. That's it. Thanks for remembering.  We were still using one when I 
left my previous position in 1995 with a 3090 400E processor.

Mark Jacobs

> Gross, Randall [PRI-1PP] <mailto:randy.gr...@primerica.com>
> June 12, 2015 at 10:05 AM
> IBM 3088 CTC
>
> Global Resource Serialization
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 10:02 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)
>
> I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
> communications using bus and tag cables.
>
> Mark Jacobs
>
>
> Mark Jacobs - Listserv <mailto:mark.jac...@custserv.com>
> June 12, 2015 at 10:02 AM
> I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
> communications using bus and tag cables.
>
> Mark Jacobs
>
>
> Elardus Engelbrecht <mailto:elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za>
> June 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM
>
> I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 
> 3380, 3090, 3420 and such animals.
>
> But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?
>
> Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all 
> [useless] info about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details 
> about that device.
>
> Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the 
> XCF and such things?
>
> TIA!
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> Please be alert for any emails that may ask you for login information 
> or directs you to login via a link. If you believe this message is a 
> phish or aren't sure whether this message is trustworthy, please send 
> the original message as an attachment to 'phish...@timeinc.com'.
>

-- 

Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Technology and Product Engineering

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread J. Pohlmann 
I think it was a 3088

Regards,

Joerg Pohlmann

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
Sent: June 12, 2015 07:02
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC communications using 
bus and tag cables.

Mark Jacobs

> Elardus Engelbrecht <mailto:elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za>
> June 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM
>
> I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 
> 3380, 3090, 3420 and such animals.
>
> But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?
>
> Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all 
> [useless] info about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details 
> about that device.
>
> Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the 
> XCF and such things?
>
> TIA!
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> Please be alert for any emails that may ask you for login information 
> or directs you to login via a link. If you believe this message is a 
> phish or aren't sure whether this message is trustworthy, please send 
> the original message as an attachment to 'phish...@timeinc.com'.
>

-- 

Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Technology and Product Engineering

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Mark Jacobs - Listserv 
Yep. That's it. Thanks for remembering.  We were still using one when I 
left my previous position in 1995 with a 3090 400E processor.


Mark Jacobs


Gross, Randall [PRI-1PP] <mailto:randy.gr...@primerica.com>
June 12, 2015 at 10:05 AM
IBM 3088 CTC

Global Resource Serialization

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 10:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
communications using bus and tag cables.


Mark Jacobs


Mark Jacobs - Listserv <mailto:mark.jac...@custserv.com>
June 12, 2015 at 10:02 AM
I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
communications using bus and tag cables.


Mark Jacobs


Elardus Engelbrecht <mailto:elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za>
June 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM

I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 
3380, 3090, 3420 and such animals.


But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?

Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all 
[useless] info about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details 
about that device.


Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the 
XCF and such things?


TIA!

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

--
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phish or aren't sure whether this message is trustworthy, please send 
the original message as an attachment to 'phish...@timeinc.com'.




--

Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Technology and Product Engineering

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Gross, Randall [PRI-1PP] 
IBM 3088 CTC

Global Resource Serialization

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 10:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC communications using 
bus and tag cables.

Mark Jacobs

> Elardus Engelbrecht <mailto:elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za>
> June 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM
>
> I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 
> 3380, 3090, 3420 and such animals.
>
> But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?
>
> Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all 
> [useless] info about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details 
> about that device.
>
> Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the 
> XCF and such things?
>
> TIA!
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> Please be alert for any emails that may ask you for login information 
> or directs you to login via a link. If you believe this message is a 
> phish or aren't sure whether this message is trustworthy, please send 
> the original message as an attachment to 'phish...@timeinc.com'.
>

-- 

Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Technology and Product Engineering

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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Re: GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Mark Jacobs - Listserv 
I don't remember the device number but it was used for CTC 
communications using bus and tag cables.


Mark Jacobs


Elardus Engelbrecht 
June 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM

I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 
3380, 3090, 3420 and such animals.


But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?

Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all 
[useless] info about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details 
about that device.


Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the 
XCF and such things?


TIA!

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Mark Jacobs
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GRS Control Unit ( Was IBM mainframe operations in the 80s)

2015-06-12 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht 
David Crayford wrote:

>This is a nice bit of nostalgia as I started my career as an Op back in the 
>80's.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwj6pfhWBps

I have watched that nice video, bringing back memories of those 3800, 3380, 
3090, 3420 and such animals.

But what the  is a 'GRS Control Unit'?

Searches on IBM webpages (and history webpages) gave me just all [useless] info 
about GRS or CONTROL or UNIT, but not specific details about that device.

Anyone having a clue what device is it? Is it the grandfather of the XCF and 
such things?

TIA!

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN