Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Henn, Karl]

Like this, I'd say.

...
 MVC   ISITM_W(ISITM_L),ISITM_C
 ISITMGD DCB=DCB1,MF=(E,ISITM_W)
 USING ISM,R1
 STR15,ISIT_RC SAVE RETURN CODE
 STR0,ISIT_RSN SAVE REASON CODE
 LTR   R15,R15 ISTSMGD OK?
 BNZ   ... NO
 TMISMOFLG2,ISMPDSEPDSE?
 BNO   ... NO
...
ISITM_C  ISITMGD MF=L   
ISITM_L  EQU   *-ISITM_C
...
* 
ISITM_W  DSXL(ISITM_L)
... 
 IGWCISM ,
...

Regards

Karl

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Savor, Thomas (Norcross)
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 9:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

>Looks like the ISITMGD macro/system service can ascertain if a dataset is a 
>PDSE.
Hummlooks very interesting.
Hate to admit it, but I never heard of this macro...but I'm going to try it out 
and see.

Thanks,
Tom

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred)]

Well, shaking your desktop or even your laptop probably wasn't a viable option 
so they had to come with something different: hence the CTRL-Z key combination 
I assume. :)

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Stevet
> Sent: woensdag 7 oktober 2015 9:07
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE
>
> But that's not how Winderz or Linux do it. The angst this causes. How could 
> Jobs
> have been so dense?  ;)
>
> Sent from iPhone - small keyboard fat fingers - expect spellinf errots.
>
> > On Oct 7, 2015, at 8:59 AM, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred)
> <fred.van.der.wi...@mail.ing.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Shake your iPhone to 'undo'.
>
> 
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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Stevet]

But that's not how Winderz or Linux do it. The angst this causes. How could 
Jobs have been so dense?  ;)
  
Sent from iPhone - small keyboard fat fingers - expect spellinf errots.

> On Oct 7, 2015, at 8:59 AM, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred) 
>  wrote:
> 
> Shake your iPhone to 'undo'.


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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Stevet]

While we are whining... Does a iPhone have any way to do cntl+z like Linux or 
Winderz?

And Gil, how would you get QSAM to correctly do a STOW at CLOSE if you do not 
set DSORG to PO?  

Now the change you propose, how do we make it transparent to existing code 
running in a bank, mfg co., etc. ?

POSIX came LONG after MVS. 

Sent from iPhone - small keyboard fat fingers - expect spellinf errots.

> On Oct 7, 2015, at 12:28 AM, Paul Gilmartin 
> <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 11:35:41 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>> 
>> Sure. The OP just asked PDS/PDSE so I focused on that.
>> 
>> Lots of variations. What about dataset accessed as a QSAM file but actually 
>> PDS/PDSE member? FWIW the distinction goes away for USS -- every file is a 
>> "member" of a directory.
> Sometimes that directory and membership are fictitious, as for /dev/fd/0.
> 
> And ISPF is woefully ignorant of the similarity.  For example, if in DDLIST I
> select a PDS with V(iew), DSLIST opens a member list with View as the
> point-and-shoot selection default.
> 
> If in UDLIST I select a UNIX directory with V(iew), I get a failure, "Invalid
> file type".  Why doesn't UDLIST do as DSLIST does and show a list of
> members in that directory?
> 
> As for the sequential allocation of a PDS member you mention, I was dismayed
> to learn that OPEN sets DCBDSORG to PO, not PS.
> 
> -- gil
> 
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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <9581562468380640.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on
10/06/2015
   at 08:56 AM, Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said:

>Does DESERV work correctly if the allocation is to a UNIX file or to
>a mixed concatenation containing a UNIX file?

I doubt it, but the OP only asked about PDS and PDSE.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 08:57:49 +0200, Stevet  wrote:

>While we are whining... Does a iPhone have any way to do cntl+z like Linux or 
>Winderz?
> 
I don't do Windows.  On Linux, as on z/OS UNIX, I use cntl+z to interrupt a 
foreground
process so I can "bg" it.  And the lack of such multiprocessing is lamented 
alike in
iOS and TSO.  It's a relic of resource limitation the early days of both 
systems.

>And Gil, how would you get QSAM to correctly do a STOW at CLOSE if you do not 
>set DSORG to PO?  
> 
Hadn't thought of that.  Is the information nowhere else avaiable?

>Now the change you propose, how do we make it transparent to existing code 
>running in a bank, mfg co., etc. ?
>
Which change that I "propose"?  How would allowing V(iew) to select a directory
in UDLIST impact "existing code running in a bank, mfg co., etc. ?"

>POSIX came LONG after MVS. 
>
The interval OS/360 to UNIX is surprisingly short, yet the latter was able to
learn from and avoid many of the design shortcomings of the former that
persist in z/OS.


>> On Oct 7, 2015, at 12:28 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> 
>>> Lots of variations. What about dataset accessed as a QSAM file but actually 
>>> PDS/PDSE member? FWIW the distinction goes away for USS -- every file is a 
>>> "member" of a directory.
>> Sometimes that directory and membership are fictitious, as for /dev/fd/0.
>> 
>> And ISPF is woefully ignorant of the similarity.  For example, if in DDLIST I
>> select a PDS with V(iew), DSLIST opens a member list with View as the
>> point-and-shoot selection default.
>> 
>> If in UDLIST I select a UNIX directory with V(iew), I get a failure, "Invalid
>> file type".  Why doesn't UDLIST do as DSLIST does and show a list of
>> members in that directory?
>> 
>> As for the sequential allocation of a PDS member you mention, I was dismayed
>> to learn that OPEN sets DCBDSORG to PO, not PS.
>> 
>> -- gil
>> 
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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred)]

Shake your iPhone to 'undo'.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Stevet
> Sent: woensdag 7 oktober 2015 8:58
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE
>
> While we are whining... Does a iPhone have any way to do cntl+z like Linux or
> Winderz?
>
> And Gil, how would you get QSAM to correctly do a STOW at CLOSE if you do
> not set DSORG to PO?
>
> Now the change you propose, how do we make it transparent to existing code
> running in a bank, mfg co., etc. ?
>
> POSIX came LONG after MVS.
>
> Sent from iPhone - small keyboard fat fingers - expect spellinf errots.
>
> > On Oct 7, 2015, at 12:28 AM, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-
> requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 11:35:41 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
> >>
> >> Sure. The OP just asked PDS/PDSE so I focused on that.
> >>
> >> Lots of variations. What about dataset accessed as a QSAM file but actually
> PDS/PDSE member? FWIW the distinction goes away for USS -- every file is a
> "member" of a directory.
> > Sometimes that directory and membership are fictitious, as for /dev/fd/0.
> >
> > And ISPF is woefully ignorant of the similarity.  For example, if in
> > DDLIST I select a PDS with V(iew), DSLIST opens a member list with
> > View as the point-and-shoot selection default.
> >
> > If in UDLIST I select a UNIX directory with V(iew), I get a failure,
> > "Invalid file type".  Why doesn't UDLIST do as DSLIST does and show a
> > list of members in that directory?
> >
> > As for the sequential allocation of a PDS member you mention, I was
> > dismayed to learn that OPEN sets DCBDSORG to PO, not PS.
> >
> > -- gil
> >
> > --
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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Mikael Nystrom]

I haven't read all posts in this thread, but what about ISITMGD?

Mikael Nyström 
Core Ledger
SEB
www.seb.se 
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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: den 7 oktober 2015 00:29
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 11:35:41 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Sure. The OP just asked PDS/PDSE so I focused on that.
>
>Lots of variations. What about dataset accessed as a QSAM file but actually 
>PDS/PDSE member? FWIW the distinction goes away for USS -- every file is a 
>"member" of a directory.
> 
Sometimes that directory and membership are fictitious, as for /dev/fd/0.

And ISPF is woefully ignorant of the similarity.  For example, if in DDLIST I
select a PDS with V(iew), DSLIST opens a member list with View as the
point-and-shoot selection default.

If in UDLIST I select a UNIX directory with V(iew), I get a failure, "Invalid
file type".  Why doesn't UDLIST do as DSLIST does and show a list of
members in that directory?

As for the sequential allocation of a PDS member you mention, I was dismayed
to learn that OPEN sets DCBDSORG to PO, not PS.

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Charles Mills]

Sure. The OP just asked PDS/PDSE so I focused on that.

Lots of variations. What about dataset accessed as a QSAM file but actually 
PDS/PDSE member? FWIW the distinction goes away for USS -- every file is a 
"member" of a directory.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 9:51 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:39:29 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>That's a good point. There is not necessarily an answer to the question "PDS 
>or PDSE?" Or rather, the answer might be "some of each."
>
Any of three.  Don't overlook UNIX files, although *SAM support for UNIX files 
is haphazard.  If it works, I assume it's supported; if I report a failure I 
often get WAD.

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 11:35:41 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Sure. The OP just asked PDS/PDSE so I focused on that.
>
>Lots of variations. What about dataset accessed as a QSAM file but actually 
>PDS/PDSE member? FWIW the distinction goes away for USS -- every file is a 
>"member" of a directory.
> 
Sometimes that directory and membership are fictitious, as for /dev/fd/0.

And ISPF is woefully ignorant of the similarity.  For example, if in DDLIST I
select a PDS with V(iew), DSLIST opens a member list with View as the
point-and-shoot selection default.

If in UDLIST I select a UNIX directory with V(iew), I get a failure, "Invalid
file type".  Why doesn't UDLIST do as DSLIST does and show a list of
members in that directory?

As for the sequential allocation of a PDS member you mention, I was dismayed
to learn that OPEN sets DCBDSORG to PO, not PS.

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:25:17 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
>
>   at 05:44 PM, "Savor, Thomas (Norcross)" said:
>
>>On a PDS...reading the directory
>
>DESERVE?
> 
Does DESERV work correctly if the allocation is to a UNIX file or to a mixed
concatenation containing a UNIX file?

(Is the OP concerned with concatenations?)

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 10/05/2015
   at 05:44 PM, "Savor, Thomas (Norcross)" 
said:

>On a PDS...reading the directory

DESERVE?
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:39:29 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>That's a good point. There is not necessarily an answer to the question "PDS 
>or PDSE?" Or rather, the answer might be "some of each."
>
Any of three.  Don't overlook UNIX files, although *SAM support for UNIX
files is haphazard.  If it works, I assume it's supported; if I report a
failure I often get WAD.

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Charles Mills]

That's a good point. There is not necessarily an answer to the question "PDS or 
PDSE?" Or rather, the answer might be "some of each."

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 6:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

...

(Is the OP concerned with concatenations?)

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Charles Mills]

I *think* (too involved in something else to open the manuals) that SVC 99 
information retrieval will give you this information for an open or not open DD 
name.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Savor, Thomas (Norcross)
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 10:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

>One might wonder why it matters.  I suppose it might.  Does the OP also want 
>to distinguish the cases of:
Don’t care about UNIX.
Yes, it is in some of my assembler programs.
I have a bunch of PDS utility batch programs that have worked fine for PDS.
But for PDSe not so much.
On a PDS...reading the directory...a use MACRF=R,RECFM=Uworks great.
On a PDSE...reading the directoryit looks like I need MACRF=R,RECFM=FB.

We have both PDS's and PDSe's everywhere.

So, I would like to Open the DD, then determine what type of PDS it is, then 
process file.
I may have to close, change DCB field and re-open.
Or determine what type of PDS a file is before opening it...if that's possible.

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 10:21:27 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>The OP's question was "when I open a file [in an assembler program] how do I 
>tell ..."
> 
One might wonder why it matters.  I suppose it might.  Does the OP also want to
distinguish the cases of:

o DSORG=PS

o UNIX files (I don't know how to recognize these.)

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Mark Jacobs - Listserv]

Looks like the ISITMGD macro/system service can ascertain if a dataset 
is a PDSE.


Mark Jacobs


Savor, Thomas (Norcross) <mailto:thomas.sa...@fiserv.com>
October 5, 2015 at 2:44 PM
Ok, I think I see DSNTYPE field can be returned from DYNALLOCif I 
can figure TEXT UNITS fields properlywow.


Thanks for your and everyone else's help.

Tom

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Charles Mills <mailto:charl...@mcn.org>
October 5, 2015 at 1:58 PM
I *think* (too involved in something else to open the manuals) that 
SVC 99 information retrieval will give you this information for an 
open or not open DD name.


Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
On Behalf Of Savor, Thomas (Norcross)

Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 10:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

Don’t care about UNIX.
Yes, it is in some of my assembler programs.
I have a bunch of PDS utility batch programs that have worked fine for 
PDS.

But for PDSe not so much.
On a PDS...reading the directory...a use MACRF=R,RECFM=Uworks great.
On a PDSE...reading the directoryit looks like I need 
MACRF=R,RECFM=FB.


We have both PDS's and PDSe's everywhere.

So, I would like to Open the DD, then determine what type of PDS it 
is, then process file.

I may have to close, change DCB field and re-open.
Or determine what type of PDS a file is before opening it...if that's 
possible.


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Savor, Thomas (Norcross) <mailto:thomas.sa...@fiserv.com>
October 5, 2015 at 1:44 PM
Don’t care about UNIX.
Yes, it is in some of my assembler programs.
I have a bunch of PDS utility batch programs that have worked fine for 
PDS.

But for PDSe not so much.
On a PDS...reading the directory...a use MACRF=R,RECFM=Uworks great.
On a PDSE...reading the directoryit looks like I need 
MACRF=R,RECFM=FB.


We have both PDS's and PDSe's everywhere.

So, I would like to Open the DD, then determine what type of PDS it 
is, then process file.

I may have to close, change DCB field and re-open.
Or determine what type of PDS a file is before opening it...if that's 
possible.


Tom


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Paul Gilmartin <mailto:000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
October 5, 2015 at 1:31 PM
One might wonder why it matters. I suppose it might. Does the OP also 
want to

distinguish the cases of:

o DSORG=PS

o UNIX files (I don't know how to recognize these.)

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Savor, Thomas (Norcross)]

>I *think* (too involved in something else to open the manuals) that SVC 99 
>information retrieval will give you this information for an open or not open 
>DD name.
Ok, I think I see DSNTYPE field can be returned from DYNALLOCif I can 
figure TEXT UNITS fields properlywow.

Thanks for your and everyone else's help.

Tom

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Savor, Thomas (Norcross)]

>Looks like the ISITMGD macro/system service can ascertain if a dataset is a 
>PDSE.
Hummlooks very interesting.
Hate to admit it, but I never heard of this macro...but I'm going to try it out 
and see.

Thanks,
Tom

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Savor, Thomas (Norcross)]

>One might wonder why it matters.  I suppose it might.  Does the OP also want 
>to distinguish the cases of:
Don’t care about UNIX.
Yes, it is in some of my assembler programs.
I have a bunch of PDS utility batch programs that have worked fine for PDS.
But for PDSe not so much.
On a PDS...reading the directory...a use MACRF=R,RECFM=Uworks great.
On a PDSE...reading the directoryit looks like I need MACRF=R,RECFM=FB.

We have both PDS's and PDSe's everywhere.

So, I would like to Open the DD, then determine what type of PDS it is, then 
process file.
I may have to close, change DCB field and re-open.
Or determine what type of PDS a file is before opening it...if that's possible.

Tom  


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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred)]

You could use DESERV. Works for PDS as well as PDSEs.

Sent from my new iPad

On 05 Oct 2015, at 19:45, Savor, Thomas (Norcross)  
wrote:

>> One might wonder why it matters.  I suppose it might.  Does the OP also want 
>> to distinguish the cases of:
> Don’t care about UNIX.
> Yes, it is in some of my assembler programs.
> I have a bunch of PDS utility batch programs that have worked fine for PDS.
> But for PDSe not so much.
> On a PDS...reading the directory...a use MACRF=R,RECFM=Uworks great.
> On a PDSE...reading the directoryit looks like I need MACRF=R,RECFM=FB.
>
> We have both PDS's and PDSe's everywhere.
>
> So, I would like to Open the DD, then determine what type of PDS it is, then 
> process file.
> I may have to close, change DCB field and re-open.
> Or determine what type of PDS a file is before opening it...if that's 
> possible.
>
> Tom
>
>
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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Bill Godfrey]

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 17:44:30 +, Savor, Thomas (Norcross) wrote:

> I have a bunch of PDS utility batch programs that have worked fine for PDS.
> But for PDSe not so much.
> On a PDS...reading the directory...a use MACRF=R,RECFM=Uworks great.
> On a PDSE...reading the directoryit looks like I need MACRF=R,RECFM=FB.

RECFM=U should work for both. See the "Using Data Sets" manual:

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DGT2D4A0/3.8.11

Bill

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2015-10-05 14:23, Bill Godfrey wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 17:44:30 +, Savor, Thomas (Norcross) wrote:
> 
>> I have a bunch of PDS utility batch programs that have worked fine for PDS.
>> But for PDSe not so much.
>> On a PDS...reading the directory...a use MACRF=R,RECFM=Uworks great.
>> On a PDSE...reading the directoryit looks like I need MACRF=R,RECFM=FB.
> 
> RECFM=U should work for both. See the "Using Data Sets" manual:
> 
> http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DGT2D4A0/3.8.11
>  
Beware LRECL and DSORG.  I use:

RECFM=F,LRECL=256,DSORG=PS

PDSE may presume that RECFM=U implies a Program Object library.

-- gil

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Charles Mills]

SVC 99, also known as DYNALLOC, is an awesome tool and works just great but 
becoming conversant with the whole control block/bit flags/text unit structure 
is unfortunately something of a learning project of its own.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Savor, Thomas (Norcross)
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 11:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

>I *think* (too involved in something else to open the manuals) that SVC 99 
>information retrieval will give you this information for an open or not open 
>DD name.
Ok, I think I see DSNTYPE field can be returned from DYNALLOCif I can 
figure TEXT UNITS fields properlywow.

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Re: How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Doug Fuerst]

ISPF 3.4. S for dataset display. Look on right for pages used.


Doug Fuerst
Principal Consultant
BK Associates
718.921.2620 (O)
917.572.7364 (C)
d...@bkassociates.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Savor, Thomas (Norcross)" <thomas.sa...@fiserv.com>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 05-Oct-15 12:33:30 PM
Subject: How the determine dataset is PDSE


Sorry for the Jr Question:

When I open a file, how can I tell if file is a PDS or PDSE ??
I don’t see anything in DCBD or IHADCBE.
I know that the DSORG=PO for both and PDSE has DSNTYPE=LIBRARY.
So somewhere the DSNTYPE is set….where ??

Thanks,
Tom

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How the determine dataset is PDSE

[Savor, Thomas (Norcross)]

Sorry for the Jr Question:

When I open a file, how can I tell if file is a PDS or PDSE ??
I don’t see anything in DCBD or IHADCBE.
I know that the DSORG=PO for both and PDSE has DSNTYPE=LIBRARY.
So somewhere the DSNTYPE is set….where ??

Thanks,
Tom

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