Re: JES3 job ids

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <1151288736361378.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on
07/29/2014
   at 01:01 AM, Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said:

>On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:44:08 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

>> on 07/27/2014 at 08:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin  said:
>>
>>>They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.
>>
>>No, but is there a business case for developing the infrastructure to
>>keep such things consistent? It's neither automatic nor free.
>> 
>Errr...  Reusable code?

Developing subroutines usable from both JES2 and JES3 is a different
issue from developing and enforcing standards. The standards by
themselves would not lead to reusable code.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:44:08 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

> on 07/27/2014 at 08:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin  said:
>
>>They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.
>
>No, but is there a business case for developing the infrastructure to
>keep such things consistent? It's neither automatic nor free.
> 
Errr...  Reusable code?

-- gil

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <3119503832839520.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on
07/27/2014
   at 08:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said:

>They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.

No, but is there a business case for developing the infrastructure to
keep such things consistent? It's neither automatic nor free.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Ed Jaffe]

On 7/27/2014 6:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.  Perhaps JES3 was motivated
to maintain diachronic compatibility with existing art.  But that works only
until the 100,001st job is submitted and all that existing art breaks in a
rude surprise.

Simpler is better.


JES3's jobid formatting is far simpler: 100% predictable, given only the 
job number as input, and results in no inconsistencies.


JES2's jobid formatting requires checkpoint-resident metadata in order 
to know how a job number should be formatted. In addition, formatting 
inconsistencies will arise immediately, once the maximum job number 
parameter is raised above 64K, since existing jobids on SPOOL <64K 
continue to be formatted as JOBn side-by-side with new jobs in the 
same <64K range formatted as J00n.


Having said all that, trivial checking of jobid+1 for a numeric value is 
all that's needed to know which technique has been used in all cases and 
that's exactly what (E)JES does when such knowledge is required.



Hmmm... for jobs up to 9, will the first two characters be
juliet-zero or juliet-oscar?


I wrote 'J00' in my previous post because that is what's used: zero-zero.

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:08:15 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>
>Another difference between JES2 and JES3 affecting this discussion is
>the way the first three characters of the jobid are formatted. JES2 will
>format 'J00' for *all* job numbers if the maximum-allowable job number
>is configured above 64K. In JES3, the first three characters will
>contain the value 'JOB' if the job number is small enough to fit, no
>matter how high the maximum-allowable job number is configured.
> 
They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.  Perhaps JES3 was motivated
to maintain diachronic compatibility with existing art.  But that works only
until the 100,001st job is submitted and all that existing art breaks in a
rude surprise.

Simpler is better.

Hmmm... for jobs up to 9, will the first two characters be
juliet-zero or juliet-oscar?

-- gil

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Ed Jaffe]

On 7/24/2014 10:50 PM, Klaus Stanislawiak wrote:

Now back with access to JES3-L, I found an old entry by Ed Jaffe that might explain why 
you have seen "S0xx and J0xx" job IDs in that presentation. I hope Ed 
does not mind if I quote him from there:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:46:06 -0700 Edward E. Jaffe said:

In JES3, you can't rely on the job ID to tell you the job type. All job
IDs always appear as JOBx (or Jxxx in z/OS V1R2), whether a job,
started task, or TSO user. (E)JES provides a feature to "merge" the job
type and job ID into a single displayable job ID column.


Sorry. I got a few days behind on my IBM-MAIN reading...

Klaus is quite correct (thank you for acting as my proxy, Sir). :)

The jobid embedded within MVS and JES control blocks will always contain 
JOBn or Jnnn in JES3.


Another difference between JES2 and JES3 affecting this discussion is 
the way the first three characters of the jobid are formatted. JES2 will 
format 'J00' for *all* job numbers if the maximum-allowable job number 
is configured above 64K. In JES3, the first three characters will 
contain the value 'JOB' if the job number is small enough to fit, no 
matter how high the maximum-allowable job number is configured.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Barry Merrill]

For what it's worth, here is the MXG logic to determine the
Type of Task and JESNR for both JES2 and JES3:

 /* COPYRIGHT (C) 2002,2013 MERRILL CONSULTANTS, DALLAS, TEXAS, USA */
 /* LAST UPDATED: JUN  4, 2013.  CHANGE 31.106. */
 /* THIS ROUTINE EXPECTS JCTJOBID AND JOB AS 8-BYTE CHARACTERS, */
 /* AND SUBSYS AS A 4-BYTE CHARACTER AS INPUT.  */

 /* IT CREATES THE 4-BYTE CHARACTER TYPETASK AND NUMERIC JESNR  */
 
 TYPETASK='';
 JESNR=.;
 IF SUBSYS=''  THEN SUBSYS=''; /*EARLY ASIDS,TMNT */
 IF JCTJOBID=JOB OR (JCTJOBID LE ' ' AND SUBSYS='STC') THEN DO;
   JESNR=.;
   TYPETASK='STC';
 END;
 ELSE DO;
   IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,2,7),?? 7.) GT . THEN DO;
 JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,2,7),?? 7.);
 TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,1);
   END;
   ELSE IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,3,6),?? 6.) GT . THEN DO;
 JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,3,6),?? 6.);
 TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,2);
   END;
   ELSE IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,4,5),?? 5.) GT . THEN DO;
 JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,4,5),?? 5.);
 TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,3);
   END;
   ELSE IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,5,4),?? 4.) GT . THEN DO;
 JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,5,4),?? 4.);
 TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,4);
   END;
   IF SUBSYS='TCP ' THEN TYPETASK='TCP ';
   ELSE IF SUBSYS='PSF ' THEN TYPETASK='PSF ';
   ELSE IF SUBSYS='VPS ' THEN TYPETASK='VPS ';
   ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'J' THEN DO;
 IF  SUBSYS='TSO ' THEN TYPETASK='TSU ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES2' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES3' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='STC ' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='OMVS' THEN TYPETASK='OMVS';
 ELSE   TYPETASK='JOB ';
   END;
   ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'O' OR SUBSYS='OMVS' THEN TYPETASK='OMVS';
   ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'S' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
   ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'A' THEN TYPETASK=SUBSYS;
   ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'T' THEN TYPETASK='TSU ';
   ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'I' AND SUBSYS='STC' THEN TYPETASK='STC  ';
   ELSE DO;
 IF  SUBSYS='STC ' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='TSO ' THEN TYPETASK='TSU ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES2' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES3' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='STC ' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
 ELSE IF SUBSYS='OMVS' THEN TYPETASK='OMVS';
 ELSE DO;
   IF PRODUCT='' THEN PRODUCT='';;
   IF SUBTYPE=.  THEN SUBTYPE=.;
   IF PRODUCT='PERFMON ' AND SUBTYPE=3 THEN DO;
 TYPETASK='STC';
 SUBSYS='PERFMON';
   END;
 END;
   END;
   IF TYPETASK=' ' THEN DO;
 BADVJESN+1;
 IF BADVJESN LE 2 THEN
   PUT '*** WARNING - TYPETASK NOT DECODED: ' /  +10
   _N_= SYSTEM= ID= SUBTYPE= JOB=
   JCTJOBID= SUBSYS= TYPETASK= JESNR= ;
   END;
 END;
  /* END OF MEMBER VGETJESN - GET JESNR AND TYPETASK FROM JCTJOBID */


Herbert W. “Barry” Merrill, PhD
President-Programmer
MXG Software
Merrill Consultants
10717 Cromwell Drive
Dallas, TX 75229
ba...@mxg.com

http://www.mxg.com - FAQ has Most Answers 
ad...@mxg.com  – invoices/PO/Payment
supp...@mxg.com– technical
tel: 214 351 1966  - expect slow reply, use email 
fax: 214 350 3694  – prefer email, still works




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Klaus Stanislawiak
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 12:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES3 job ids

Now back with access to JES3-L, I found an old entry by Ed Jaffe that might 
explain why you have seen "S0xx and J0xx" job IDs in that presentation. 
I hope Ed does not mind if I quote him from there:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:46:06 -0700 Edward E. Jaffe said:
> In JES3, you can't rely on the job ID to tell you the job type. All 
> job IDs always appear as JOBx (or Jxxx in z/OS V1R2), whether 
> a job, started task, or TSO user. (E)JES provides a feature to "merge" 
> the job type and job ID into a single displayable job ID column.

Regards, Klaus

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Barbara Nitz]

Thanks so much, Klaus! The things you've cited fit the note on the JES3 service 
that I had found. I had gotten the impression that JES3 primarily uses job 
numbers and that it is up to the product presenting information to get a jobid 
and present it one way or another.

Barbara

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Klaus Stanislawiak]

Now back with access to JES3-L, I found an old entry by Ed Jaffe that might 
explain why you have seen "S0xx and J0xx" job IDs in that presentation. 
I hope Ed does not mind if I quote him from there:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:46:06 -0700 Edward E. Jaffe said:
> In JES3, you can't rely on the job ID to tell you the job type. All job
> IDs always appear as JOBx (or Jxxx in z/OS V1R2), whether a job,
> started task, or TSO user. (E)JES provides a feature to "merge" the job
> type and job ID into a single displayable job ID column.

Regards, Klaus

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Lizette Koehler]

This seemed to work for me

https://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=jes3-l&A=1


Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Ed Finnell
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:04 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JES3 job ids
> 
> I did find in status.uga.edu that they are experiencing LDAP problems
which  may
> affect logins.
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/24/2014 12:58:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> klaus.stanislaw...@softwareag.com writes:
> 
> Unfortunately I am currently not able to log on there for whatever  reason
> 

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Ed Finnell]

I did find in status.uga.edu that they are experiencing LDAP problems which 
 may affect logins.
 
 
In a message dated 7/24/2014 12:58:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
klaus.stanislaw...@softwareag.com writes:

Unfortunately I am currently not able to log on there for whatever  reason 

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Ed Finnell]

_jes...@listserv.uga.edu_ (mailto:jes...@listserv.uga.edu) 
 
To subscribe send to _lists...@listserv.uga.edu_ 
(mailto:lists...@listserv.uga.edu)  with text  SUBSCRIBE JES3-L
 
Contact list owner send mail to:
 
_jes3-l-requ...@listserv.uga.edu_ (mailto:jes3-l-requ...@listserv.uga.edu) 
 
 
In a message dated 7/24/2014 12:58:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
klaus.stanislaw...@softwareag.com writes:

BTW,  there is also a JES3-L list server where more JES3 customers are 
registered.  
Unfortunately I am currently not able to log on there for whatever reason  

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Klaus Stanislawiak]

This is what I found in the "Glossary" of a back level documentation (z/OS 
V1R4.0 JES3 Introduction, SA22-7551-02):

> job ID. An 8-character identifier used by JES3 to
> uniquely identify any job in a JES3 complex at any
> moment in time. The job identifier is of the form
> "JOBn" where n is the job number with the
> appropriate number of leading zeroes, if the job number
> is 99,999 or less. Otherwise, the job identifier is of the
> form "Jnnn", where nnn is the job number
> with the appropriate number of leading zeroes.

BTW, there is also a JES3-L list server where more JES3 customers are 
registered. 
Unfortunately I am currently not able to log on there for whatever reason ...

Regards, Klaus

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Norman.Hollander]

But what happens if you tell JES you can have 999,999 jobs in the system, 
rather than 99,999?
No place to fill in the 3-character descriptor.  Reduced to J, S, and T.  Works 
that way in JES2. 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Barbara Nitz
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES3 job ids

>On all the JES3 systems that I have seen (since OS/390 V2R5) all jobids have 
>always looked like JOBx for jobs, STCs and TSUs.
>The entries S0xx and J0xx in the presentation may originate from STCs 
>and TSUs that were running under a secondary JES2 on the same system.
>But Ed Jaffe will probably let us know if he has a different explanation.

So that probably means that it can be configured somewhere if JES3 jobids can 
start with JOB, STC and TSU or not, since we now have one JES3 installation 
that has jobids starting TSU and at least one where all jobids start with JOB. 

So yes, I am also waiting for Ed to chime in. I have never worked on a JES3 
system, either.

Thanks, Barbara

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Barbara Nitz]

>On all the JES3 systems that I have seen (since OS/390 V2R5) all jobids have 
>always looked like JOBx for jobs, STCs and TSUs.
>The entries S0xx and J0xx in the presentation may originate from STCs 
>and TSUs that were running under a secondary JES2 on the same system.
>But Ed Jaffe will probably let us know if he has a different explanation.

So that probably means that it can be configured somewhere if JES3 jobids can 
start with JOB, STC and TSU or not, since we now have one JES3 installation 
that has jobids starting TSU and at least one where all jobids start with JOB. 

So yes, I am also waiting for Ed to chime in. I have never worked on a JES3 
system, either.

Thanks, Barbara

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:50:06 -0500, Klaus Stanislawiak wrote:

>On all the JES3 systems that I have seen (since OS/390 V2R5) all jobids have 
>always looked like JOBx for jobs, STCs and TSUs.
>The entries S0xx and J0xx in the presentation may originate from STCs 
>and TSUs that were running under a secondary JES2 on the same system.
>But Ed Jaffe will probably let us know if he has a different explanation.
>
I'm familiar only with JES2.  But ISTR that when JES2 went from a 4-digit 
numeric
suffix to 5 (does anyone remember the old format?), it was made an installation
option whether the numeric part reset at 100,000 or at 10,000.  Our site chose
10,000 because we were not suffering a name space constraint and there was some
compatibility concern.  (Terse format of operator commands?)  So perhaps the
format is a configurable parameter.

(I ranted lately, "I hate options!"  And this is such a case where I'd value
synchronic consistency above diachronic compatibility.)

-- gil

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Re: JES3 job ids

[Klaus Stanislawiak]

On all the JES3 systems that I have seen (since OS/390 V2R5) all jobids have 
always looked like JOBx for jobs, STCs and TSUs.
The entries S0xx and J0xx in the presentation may originate from STCs 
and TSUs that were running under a secondary JES2 on the same system.
But Ed Jaffe will probably let us know if he has a different explanation.

Regards, Klaus

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Antwort: JES3 job ids

[Werner Kuehnel]

On our JES3 system (z/OS 1.13) the jobid for TSO users is

TSUn

for inactive (just output on spool) and active users. n are 5 digits. 
Haven't seen anything else in the past.

Werner Kuehnel





Von:Barbara Nitz 
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, 
Datum:  24.07.2014 08:14
Betreff:    JES3 job ids
Gesendet von:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



This is probably a very basic JES3 question, but I have been unable to 
find an answer both searching the internet and the JES3 books. Can 
somebody running JES3 please tell me what the jobid for a TSO user looks 
like? In JES2 it would be TSUx or T0xx. Same for a started task - 
in JES2 that is STCx or S0xx. What does that look like in JES3?

I have the sneaking suspicion that with JES3 the jobid is always prefixed 
JOBx, no matter if it is batch job, started task or TSO user. (I even 
found a JES3 service converting job numbers to job ids that says the job 
ids should always be presented like this). But then I found an old 
presentation by Ed Jaffe that contained jobids, and that presentation was 
showing +MASTER+ as JOBx (JES2 considers +master+ STCx). The same 
presentation also had something that looked like a mixture of S0xx and 
J0xx, but that is taken completely out of context, so I am unsure. 

What does a TSO user jobid look like in JES3, and will it always look like 
this?

Thanks, Barbara

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JES3 job ids

[Barbara Nitz]

This is probably a very basic JES3 question, but I have been unable to find an 
answer both searching the internet and the JES3 books. Can somebody running 
JES3 please tell me what the jobid for a TSO user looks like? In JES2 it would 
be TSUx or T0xx. Same for a started task - in JES2 that is STCx or 
S0xx. What does that look like in JES3?

I have the sneaking suspicion that with JES3 the jobid is always prefixed 
JOBx, no matter if it is batch job, started task or TSO user. (I even found 
a JES3 service converting job numbers to job ids that says the job ids should 
always be presented like this). But then I found an old presentation by Ed 
Jaffe that contained jobids, and that presentation was showing +MASTER+ as 
JOBx (JES2 considers +master+ STCx). The same presentation also had 
something that looked like a mixture of S0xx and J0xx, but that is 
taken completely out of context, so I am unsure.  

What does a TSO user jobid look like in JES3, and will it always look like this?

Thanks, Barbara

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