Re: O/T What The Imitation Game didn t tell you about Turing s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 18:48:34 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
>
>His e-mail client; does your e-mail client claim to support MIME?
> 
And, are his LISTSERV options set to Full Headers?  I've known
LISTSERV to discard essential MIME parameters when abbreviated
headers is selected.

-- gil

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Re: O/T What The Imitation Game didn t tell you about Turing s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <54eb51f4.9020...@acm.org>, on 02/23/2015
   at 10:14 AM, Joel Ewing  said:

>In the original Email that I received from Ed the Email source 
>text (as opposed to the way my Email client renders it) shows the 
>presence of a hex-encoded blank (= 2 0) followed by a CR at about 
>the 70-character mark in the two places where the original URL 
>later gets separated when quoted.

That sounds like QP. I checked, and he has the appropriate MIME fields
in his header, e.g., Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.

>I'm not sure who or what is producing or introducing this URL
>formatting as it is definitely not part of the actual URL.

His e-mail client; does your e-mail client claim to support MIME?

>My Thunderbird Email client seems to partly realize that the extra
>characters are not a legitimate part of the URL and when 
>displaying the Email elides the three parts without a blank or 
>forced CR, but the part rendered in blue as a "link" and the part 
>passed as the URL when clicking on the link stops at the first 
>"= 2 0 CR" point, so the passed URL from the link doesn't work in 
>my browser.

Sounds like a bug in BlunderBird. Is anybody supporting it these days?

>(depends on whether this way of wrapping long character strings is
>actually an approved Email standard)

RFC 2045 through 2049 are standards track.

 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: O/T What The Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you about Turing¹s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In , on 02/23/2015
   at 11:59 PM, "Robert A. Rosenberg"  said:

>Format-flowed says that long lines are split with each line 
>ending in =20CR.

Yes, but you don't need format=flowed for lines to be split when using
QP. TB handling of MIME is broken, regardless of format=flowed or
delsp.

>The URL was malformed since it was not included in angle brackets.

Not even close: the URL was valid per RFC 3986. Presumably you're
thinking of Appendix C.  Delimiting a URI in Context, but it doesn't
say that angle brackets are required. Again, TB is broken.

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: O/T What The Imitation Game didn t tell you about Turing s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 02/23/2015
   at 07:22 PM, Wayne Bickerdike  said:

>The link works fine in my Gmail client. Almost all of Pauls OMVS
>email postings end up in my spam folder. Google have been supplied
>with many examples for their (non) spam filter. Any one else find
>this happens?

Well, they're certainly not overzealous filtering their *outbound*
spam. It's just one of many ways that google is badly broken.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: O/T What 'The Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you about Turing¹s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <54ecaf3e.2050...@acm.org>, on 02/24/2015
   at 11:05 AM, Joel Ewing  said:

>Clearly the URL problem has occurred by the time the post is 
>received by IBM-MAIN

No; the copy I received from IBM-MAIN does not have a broken URL, but
rather a URL correctly encoded as QP. The problem is that TB does not
handle MIME correctly.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: O/T What 'The Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you about Turing¹s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Joel Ewing]

On 02/23/2015 10:59 PM, Robert A. Rosenberg wrote:
> At 11:59 -0600 on 02/23/2015, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: O/T What
> ŒThe Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you abo:
> 
>> On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:14:44 -0600, Joel Ewing wrote:
>>
>>> In the original Email that I received from Ed the Email source text (as
>>> opposed to the way my Email client renders it) shows the presence of a
>>> hex-encoded blank (= 2 0) followed by a CR at about the 70-character
>>>
>> GIYF:
>> Character-set: USASCII; Format-flowed
>> Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
>>
>>> This is certainly a confusing inconsistency in Thunderbird if not an
>>> out-right bug (depends on whether this way of wrapping long character
>>> strings is actually an approved Email standard).
>>>
>> RFC 822 requires support for up to 999.
> 
> Format-flowed says that long lines are split with each line ending in
> =20CR. Each split line should be no longer than 80 characters (including
> the =20CR). Your input meets this format.
> 
> The =20CR is removed and the next line is concatenated until a line does
> NOT end with =20CR. At that point you have the original long input line.
> This requires that the receiving MUA support Format-flowed however.
> 
> 
>>
>>>  Apparently some other
>>  >Email clients do interpret it in a way that preserves the link. On the
>>> other hand there are certainly Email clients that send long URLs without
>>> using this formatting convention, as I frequently receive long URLs in
>>> Emails (including the reformatted version of this URL from Paul) that
>>> work fine with Thunderbird.
> 
> See my prior message. The URL was malformed since it was not included in
> angle brackets. URLs without angle brackets are part of the text and are
> not indicated as URLs - Thus may not be spotted for special treatment.
> Note that such text URLs MAY be correctly handled anyway but you are
> playing Russian Roulette with 5 bullets if you do not bracket your URLs.
> 
>>
>> -- gil


>From doing some testing with my Thunderbird Email client, which by
default does text line wrapping at around 70 chars for composed mail, if
I send a long URL in an Email via copy/paste from a browser URL it does
not use angle brackets around the URL but does suppress line wrapping in
the middle of the URL.

>From looking in the IBM-MAIN archives at the original 21 Feb 2015
23:34:42 -0600 posting by Ed Gould and comparing that to the follow-up
22 Feb 2015 08:56:50 -0600 posting by Paul Gilmartin you can see that
Paul's post with the usable URL follows the same convention as
Thunderbird of suppressing line wrap within the URL while other text
lines are wrapped at a shorter length.  While the browser display of
that archived posting does wrap the URL depending on browser window
size, increasing the width of the browser window causes the URL to
re-flow to fill the larger width, clearly showing the URL in the post
itself is not line wrapped.  Just as clearly the original post by Ed has
the URL line-wrapped at the same length as ordinary text and the browser
link in the IBM-MAIN archive web page display excludes the last two
lines intended as part of the URL. Clearly the URL problem has occurred
by the time the post is received by IBM-MAIN and whatever convention is
used to broadcast the postings to the list members is just preserving
that difference.

If the technique and application Ed is using to compose his postings
does not allow any way to influence line wrapping, then manually
inserting angle brackets around the entire URL might circumvent the
problem; but I suspect the sending application could still do things in
the way it handles line wrap or assigns Email content attributes that
might prevent that suggestion from working as well.  If Ed has no way to
circumvent and it's an interesting enough link, it's not that big of
deal for a recipient to circumvent the problem manually by editing the URL.


-- 
Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org 

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Re: O/T What ŒThe Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you about Turing¹s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Robert A. Rosenberg]

At 11:59 -0600 on 02/23/2015, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: O/T What 
ŒThe Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you abo:



On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:14:44 -0600, Joel Ewing wrote:


In the original Email that I received from Ed the Email source text (as
opposed to the way my Email client renders it) shows the presence of a
hex-encoded blank (= 2 0) followed by a CR at about the 70-character


GIYF:
Character-set: USASCII; Format-flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable


This is certainly a confusing inconsistency in Thunderbird if not an
out-right bug (depends on whether this way of wrapping long character
strings is actually an approved Email standard).


RFC 822 requires support for up to 999.


Format-flowed says that long lines are split with each line ending in 
=20CR. Each split line should be no longer than 80 characters 
(including the =20CR). Your input meets this format.


The =20CR is removed and the next line is concatenated until a line 
does NOT end with =20CR. At that point you have the original long 
input line. This requires that the receiving MUA support 
Format-flowed however.






 Apparently some other

 >Email clients do interpret it in a way that preserves the link. On the

other hand there are certainly Email clients that send long URLs without
using this formatting convention, as I frequently receive long URLs in
Emails (including the reformatted version of this URL from Paul) that
work fine with Thunderbird.


See my prior message. The URL was malformed since it was not included 
in angle brackets. URLs without angle brackets are part of the text 
and are not indicated as URLs - Thus may not be spotted for special 
treatment. Note that such text URLs MAY be correctly handled anyway 
but you are playing Russian Roulette with 5 bullets if you do not 
bracket your URLs.




-- gil

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Re: O/T What ŒThe Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you about Turing¹s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Ed Gould]

I don't know what the problem is on my end as I am able to click on  
the url and it took me to the desired location, so I suspect the  
issue is either with the list serv or your mail client.


Ed

On Feb 22, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Robert A. Rosenberg wrote:

At 08:56 -0600 on 02/22/2015, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: O/T  
What ŒThe Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you abo:



On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 23:34:42 -0600, Ed Gould wrote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what- 
imitation-

game-didnt-tell-you-about-alan-turings-greatest-triumph/2015/02/20/
ffd210b6-b606-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html


What ?The Imitation Game? didn?t tell you about Turing?s greatest
triumph


Unwrapped, I hope:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what- 
imitation-game-didnt-tell-you-about-alan-turings-greatest-triumph/ 
2015/02/20/ffd210b6-b606-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html


Ed needs to get a better mail agent.  In cases such as this,  
dumber is

probably better than  amarter.


Or just use a URL Shortener.



-- gil

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Re: O/T What ŒThe Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you about Turing¹s greatest triumph - The Washington Post

[Robert A. Rosenberg]

At 08:56 -0600 on 02/22/2015, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: O/T What 
ŒThe Imitation Game¹ didn¹t tell you abo:



On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 23:34:42 -0600, Ed Gould wrote:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what-imitation-
game-didnt-tell-you-about-alan-turings-greatest-triumph/2015/02/20/
ffd210b6-b606-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html


What ?The Imitation Game? didn?t tell you about Turing?s greatest 
triumph


Unwrapped, I hope:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/what-imitation-game-didnt-tell-you-about-alan-turings-greatest-triumph/2015/02/20/ffd210b6-b606-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html

Ed needs to get a better mail agent.  In cases such as this, dumber is
probably better than  amarter.


Or just use a URL Shortener.



-- gil

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