Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
On Wed, 10 Apr 2024, at 17:17, Tom Marchant wrote: > As I said, I use the web interface to reply, rather than send an email > to the list server. > Perhaps that is what causes the sender's address to appear that way. > For my post that you referenced, this is what I see in the web > interface: > Subject: Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous > FROM-addresses? > From: Tom Marchant Interestingly the message-id header on one of your earlier posts held Message-ID: <1272561896266461.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu> but no-one can reliably use that to determine your actual address, without experimenting with punctuation... -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
On Wed, 10 Apr 2024, at 17:58, Tony Harminc wrote: > On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 at 08:50, Jeremy Nicoll > wrote: > >> I just noticed that some posts here show the poster's own email address >> whereas others have something like >> >> 0xxx-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu > > > This is a workaround invented by Lsoft ... Indeed; I see something similar on lots of other mail lists ... except that elsewhere all the posts come with the workaround addresses. In one case it's impossible to tell who posted which piece of content unless the poster has a sensible sig, and even if they do one still has to scroll every post to the bottom to see who wrote it. Since my email address does make it into my posts, does that mean that the listserver sees my (Fastmail generic domain) address as "properly/securely" setup, or not? > Essentially things go wrong because LISTSERV is unable to sign (loosely > speaking) an email that it receives from a subscriber and wants to relay to > the list. And if a recipient's mail system rejects it for that reason, then > LISTSERV generates a random email address @ the LISTSERV address, and sends > from that address (which of course it *is* authorized to send from). Do you mean that different recipients see any particular post with a mix of apparent from-addresses, depending on whether the listserv had problem sending copies of that post to their mail provider? -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
On Wed, 10 Apr 2024, at 16:30, Tom Marchant wrote: > I use the Listserv web interface exclusively to see posts and respond > to them. Do you need to login to the server to do that? If you do, it clearly knows who you are so I might have expected it to put your login email address in your posts. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
Tony, Thank you for that explanation on where these are coming from - and the comment that L-SERV relays a reply back from their made-up e-mail address to their real one. I've wanted a couple times to reply back only to the original poster and didn't know a reply to their fake address would get to them! Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 11:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses? On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 at 08:50, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: > I just noticed that some posts here show the poster's own email > address whereas others have something like > > 0xxx-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu This is a workaround invented by Lsoft (the makers of LISTSERV) for changes made around ten years ago by Google and other "big tech" companies that largely broke the decades-old world of mailing lists. A cynic would say that Google et al just want to keep everyone and everything "on platform", i.e. not support nasty things like mailing lists because they allow people to communicate without going through them. Google would say it's all about avoiding spam and phishing emails. Essentially things go wrong because LISTSERV is unable to sign (loosely speaking) an email that it receives from a subscriber and wants to relay to the list. And if a recipient's mail system rejects it for that reason, then LISTSERV generates a random email address @ the LISTSERV address, and sends from that address (which of course it *is* authorized to send from). If someone responds directly to a list poster who has such a generated email address, LISTSERV will forward it on, but of course that introduces a third party into the email chain. Nobody wants that, but it makes the best of a bad situation. If you look back at archives or your own personal mail, you can see some people's list email addresses change over time as their mail provider has changed their policies and LISTSERV dynamically assigns one of their xxx-dmarc- things. If you go to the Lsoft site https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lsoft.com__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!uXlmrgWL3lI2XQhm4TXx1CMD4SCDTehWjw55VfqNdXpiQ1iRR4DpEwdpxyUMWsC2-XbpREzkCn44w5ea$ and search there for "dmarc", you'll see a bunch of stuff on how they deal with the problems.It's not pretty, but it mostly works. Does the latter indicate a post made via newsgroup bit.listserv.ibm-main > (if the gateway between NNTP & listserv still works?) while the former > indicate "posts" made directly to the listserv by email? I don't think it has anything to do with NNTP and such. It's all about how strict a given list subscriber's email handling is. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 at 08:50, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: > I just noticed that some posts here show the poster's own email address > whereas others have something like > > 0xxx-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu This is a workaround invented by Lsoft (the makers of LISTSERV) for changes made around ten years ago by Google and other "big tech" companies that largely broke the decades-old world of mailing lists. A cynic would say that Google et al just want to keep everyone and everything "on platform", i.e. not support nasty things like mailing lists because they allow people to communicate without going through them. Google would say it's all about avoiding spam and phishing emails. Essentially things go wrong because LISTSERV is unable to sign (loosely speaking) an email that it receives from a subscriber and wants to relay to the list. And if a recipient's mail system rejects it for that reason, then LISTSERV generates a random email address @ the LISTSERV address, and sends from that address (which of course it *is* authorized to send from). If someone responds directly to a list poster who has such a generated email address, LISTSERV will forward it on, but of course that introduces a third party into the email chain. Nobody wants that, but it makes the best of a bad situation. If you look back at archives or your own personal mail, you can see some people's list email addresses change over time as their mail provider has changed their policies and LISTSERV dynamically assigns one of their xxx-dmarc- things. If you go to the Lsoft site https://lsoft.com and search there for "dmarc", you'll see a bunch of stuff on how they deal with the problems.It's not pretty, but it mostly works. Does the latter indicate a post made via newsgroup bit.listserv.ibm-main > (if the gateway between NNTP & listserv still works?) while the former > indicate "posts" made directly to the listserv by email? I don't think it has anything to do with NNTP and such. It's all about how strict a given list subscriber's email handling is. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
As I said, I use the web interface to reply, rather than send an email to the list server. Perhaps that is what causes the sender's address to appear that way. For my post that you referenced, this is what I see in the web interface: Subject:Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses? From: Tom Marchant Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List I am set to NOMAIL so I can't look at the email headers at the moment. -- Tom Marchant On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:52:50 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote: >Your own email is an example :) Here's what I see using Thunderbird: >https://www.mildredbrennan.com/mvs/email_address.png > >On 4/10/2024 8:30 AM, Tom Marchant wrote: >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:50:03 +0100, Jeremy Nicoll >> wrote: >> >>> I just noticed that some posts here show the poster's own email address >>> whereas others have something like >>> >>> 0xxx-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu >> >> I haven't seen that. Can you show an example? I have seen attributions in >> some posts that look like that, but not an actual From: address. >> I use the Listserv web interface exclusively to see posts and respond to >> them. >>> >>> Does the latter indicate a post made via newsgroup bit.listserv.ibm-main >>> (if the gateway between NNTP & listserv still works?) while the former >>> indicate "posts" made directly to the listserv by email? >> >> I thought that the gateway between Listserv and Netnews was one way. That >> is, IBM-Main is sent to bit.listserv.ibm-main, but posts to >> bit.listserv.ibm-main are not sent to the mailing list. >> > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
Your own email is an example :) Here's what I see using Thunderbird: https://www.mildredbrennan.com/mvs/email_address.png On 4/10/2024 8:30 AM, Tom Marchant wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:50:03 +0100, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: I just noticed that some posts here show the poster's own email address whereas others have something like 0xxx-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu I haven't seen that. Can you show an example? I have seen attributions in some posts that look like that, but not an actual From: address. I use the Listserv web interface exclusively to see posts and respond to them. Does the latter indicate a post made via newsgroup bit.listserv.ibm-main (if the gateway between NNTP & listserv still works?) while the former indicate "posts" made directly to the listserv by email? I thought that the gateway between Listserv and Netnews was one way. That is, IBM-Main is sent to bit.listserv.ibm-main, but posts to bit.listserv.ibm-main are not sent to the mailing list. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Posting issues - why do some posts have anonymous FROM-addresses?
On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:50:03 +0100, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: >I just noticed that some posts here show the poster's own email address >whereas others have something like > > 0xxx-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu I haven't seen that. Can you show an example? I have seen attributions in some posts that look like that, but not an actual From: address. I use the Listserv web interface exclusively to see posts and respond to them. > >Does the latter indicate a post made via newsgroup bit.listserv.ibm-main >(if the gateway between NNTP & listserv still works?) while the former >indicate "posts" made directly to the listserv by email? I thought that the gateway between Listserv and Netnews was one way. That is, IBM-Main is sent to bit.listserv.ibm-main, but posts to bit.listserv.ibm-main are not sent to the mailing list. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
