Re: codepages
"Loading a huge data set into the editor would allocate a huge number frames" is part of the discussion and is a clear reference to real storage. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Peter Hunkeler Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:49 AM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: AW: Re: codepages > Why do you need windowing? What you need is to mage the pages, and the > same issues exist whether the mapping is windowed or direct into virtual > memory. Well, the discussion eventually was talking about editing large MVS data sets or UNIX files using ISPF edit. For ISPF edit (and view) the current limiting factor is virtual storage, not real storage. ISPF edit is AMODE31, and thus cannot deal with above the bar storage. So all the real frame services (PG) don't help. Windowing techniques would allow to edit/view data sets / files of any size. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: codepages
> Why do you need windowing? What you need is to mage the pages, and the > same issues exist whether the mapping is windowed or direct into virtual > memory. Well, the discussion eventually was talking about editing large MVS data sets or UNIX files using ISPF edit. For ISPF edit (and view) the current limiting factor is virtual storage, not real storage. ISPF edit is AMODE31, and thus cannot deal with above the bar storage. So all the real frame services (PG) don't help. Windowing techniques would allow to edit/view data sets / files of any size. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
Manage the pages, e.g., PGRLSE. The typos was the keyboards fault; that's my story and I'm sticking to it. OTOH, "mage the pages" would work well if I were into, e.g., D&D. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of zMan Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 9:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: codepages "mage the pages"? On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > Why do you need windowing? What you need is to mage the pages, and the > same issues exist whether the mapping is windowed or direct into virtual > memory. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Tony Harminc > Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 6:20 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu > Subject: Re: codepages > > On 6 February 2018 at 14:17, Peter Hunkeler wrote: > >> Isn't this what DIV is for? > > > > DIV works with VSAM linear data sets. How would it help here? > > The discussion has been (mostly) about loading an entire dataset into > virtual storage (as ISPF Edit does) vs windowing techniques that avoid > requiring a huge amount of virtual. > > I wasn't suggesting that DIV could apply directly to (say) a PS or PO > dataset, but if you want to implement windowing you need some scheme > to map file data to a smaller amount of virtual storage. DIV would > seem to be a base to build on. > > Tony H. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 8:23 PM, zMan wrote: > "mage the pages"? > You need to be a wizard to do that. Or maybe "manage the pages". > > On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > Why do you need windowing? What you need is to mage the pages, and the > > same issues exist whether the mapping is windowed or direct into virtual > > memory. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > > of Tony Harminc > > Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 6:20 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu > > Subject: Re: codepages > > > > On 6 February 2018 at 14:17, Peter Hunkeler wrote: > > >> Isn't this what DIV is for? > > > > > > DIV works with VSAM linear data sets. How would it help here? > > > > The discussion has been (mostly) about loading an entire dataset into > > virtual storage (as ISPF Edit does) vs windowing techniques that avoid > > requiring a huge amount of virtual. > > > > I wasn't suggesting that DIV could apply directly to (say) a PS or PO > > dataset, but if you want to implement windowing you need some scheme > > to map file data to a smaller amount of virtual storage. DIV would > > seem to be a base to build on. > > > > Tony H. > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > -- > zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove it. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
"mage the pages"? On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > Why do you need windowing? What you need is to mage the pages, and the > same issues exist whether the mapping is windowed or direct into virtual > memory. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Tony Harminc > Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 6:20 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu > Subject: Re: codepages > > On 6 February 2018 at 14:17, Peter Hunkeler wrote: > >> Isn't this what DIV is for? > > > > DIV works with VSAM linear data sets. How would it help here? > > The discussion has been (mostly) about loading an entire dataset into > virtual storage (as ISPF Edit does) vs windowing techniques that avoid > requiring a huge amount of virtual. > > I wasn't suggesting that DIV could apply directly to (say) a PS or PO > dataset, but if you want to implement windowing you need some scheme > to map file data to a smaller amount of virtual storage. DIV would > seem to be a base to build on. > > Tony H. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
Why do you need windowing? What you need is to mage the pages, and the same issues exist whether the mapping is windowed or direct into virtual memory. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Tony Harminc Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 6:20 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: codepages On 6 February 2018 at 14:17, Peter Hunkeler wrote: >> Isn't this what DIV is for? > > DIV works with VSAM linear data sets. How would it help here? The discussion has been (mostly) about loading an entire dataset into virtual storage (as ISPF Edit does) vs windowing techniques that avoid requiring a huge amount of virtual. I wasn't suggesting that DIV could apply directly to (say) a PS or PO dataset, but if you want to implement windowing you need some scheme to map file data to a smaller amount of virtual storage. DIV would seem to be a base to build on. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On 6 February 2018 at 14:17, Peter Hunkeler wrote: >> Isn't this what DIV is for? > > DIV works with VSAM linear data sets. How would it help here? The discussion has been (mostly) about loading an entire dataset into virtual storage (as ISPF Edit does) vs windowing techniques that avoid requiring a huge amount of virtual. I wasn't suggesting that DIV could apply directly to (say) a PS or PO dataset, but if you want to implement windowing you need some scheme to map file data to a smaller amount of virtual storage. DIV would seem to be a base to build on. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: codepages
> Isn't this what DIV is for? DIV works with VSAM linear data sets. How would it help here? -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On 5 February 2018 at 11:49, Peter Hunkeler wrote: >>>VIEW/EDIT should really learn to work in a window mode, so larger data sets >>>can be viewed/edited. >>On 5 February 2018 at 08:57, Tom Marchant >><000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >>Or use storage above the bar. > > I'm not a fan of this. How much would you allow it to use? Loading a huge > data set into the editor would allocate a huge number frames, just to drop > them shortly (whatever that means) thereafter. Isn't this what DIV is for? Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AW: Re: codepages
On 02/05/2018 10:49 AM, Peter Hunkeler wrote: >>> VIEW/EDIT should really learn to work in a window mode, so larger data sets >>> can be viewed/edited. > > >> Or use storage above the bar. > > > I'm not a fan of this. How much would you allow it to use? Loading a huge > data set into the editor would allocate a huge number frames, just to drop > them shortly (whatever that means) thereafter. > > > -- > Peter Hunkeler And on heavily loaded systems, even if getting enough real frames to back a huge temporary spike in the session's virtual memory working set weren't an issue, the CPU usage and I/Os to read an entire huge multi-volume data set into virtual memory could make the TSO session appear to die from the users standpoint for a very long time. In my experience, for most users, having the editor fail from insufficient space below the 2G bar was actually a better outcome than an apparently-dead session trying to read the entire data set when the user attempted to edit a huge data set either accidentally or without realizing the resources they were requesting. If they really needed to edit a small piece of a huge data set, there were generally better approaches than trying to use the ISPF Editor directly. A windowed-edit capability for large files would be a nice alternative, but it would also be useful that it warn the user when requesting operations that could potentially require reading through a large part of a large file just to be sure that a potentially time-intensive, resource-intensive operation is what the user really intended and requires before proceeding -- and there may still be more-efficient, alternative ways to achieve the desired result using other utilities. Joel C Ewing -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: codepages
>In what way is TSO not AMODE64 aware? I run AMODE64 programs under TSO all the time. The talk is about ISPF VIEW/EDIT, and these programs do not do AMODE64 as far as I understand. You can of course alway run your own AMODE64 code in any address space. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Don Poitras wrote: > In what way is TSO not AMODE64 aware? I run AMODE64 programs under TSO all > the time. > >From my reading, you can easily write AMODE64 user code. But you need to revert to 24 or 31 bit addressing to do any of the TSO service requests. >From here: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.ikjb700/tsoserv.htm User-written Command Processors can execute in either 24-bit or 31-bit addressing mode provided they follow the restrictions involved in invoking programs that have 24-bit dependencies. When assigned the AMODE=31 attribute, they can be loaded above 16 MB in virtual storage (RMODE=ANY), and passed input that resides above 16 MB. > > In article you wrote: > > > > >>>Browse could be useful for a file too large to fit in main storage > (Nowadays? Really!?) > > >> > > >> ITYM virtual storage rather than main storage. > > >> > > >OK. Picky, picky! > > > > I didn't mean to be picky. What I meant (but did not write) was the fact > that large main storage does not help as long as TSO is not AMODE64 aware. > > >> VIEW/EDIT want to be able to read the whole file into the extended > private area (below the bar, that is). So this limits the size of the data > set to some 1.4 - 1.5 GiB. > > >> > > >Well, yes. How often is that a problem? > > > > Every now and then, do I have to look for the needle in a days worth of > operlog, which was offloaded into a data set. It is extremely helpful when > I can work with VIEW. > > -- > > Peter Hunkeler > > -- > Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive > sas...@sas.com (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove it. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
In what way is TSO not AMODE64 aware? I run AMODE64 programs under TSO all the time. In article you wrote: > > >>>Browse could be useful for a file too large to fit in main storage > >>>(Nowadays? Really!?) > >> > >> ITYM virtual storage rather than main storage. > >> > >OK. Picky, picky! > > I didn't mean to be picky. What I meant (but did not write) was the fact that > large main storage does not help as long as TSO is not AMODE64 aware. > >> VIEW/EDIT want to be able to read the whole file into the extended private > >> area (below the bar, that is). So this limits the size of the data set to > >> some 1.4 - 1.5 GiB. > >> > >Well, yes. How often is that a problem? > > Every now and then, do I have to look for the needle in a days worth of > operlog, which was offloaded into a data set. It is extremely helpful when I > can work with VIEW. > -- > Peter Hunkeler -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive sas...@sas.com (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: codepages
>>>Browse could be useful for a file too large to fit in main storage >>>(Nowadays? Really!?) >> >> ITYM virtual storage rather than main storage. >> >OK. Picky, picky! I didn't mean to be picky. What I meant (but did not write) was the fact that large main storage does not help as long as TSO is not AMODE64 aware. >> VIEW/EDIT want to be able to read the whole file into the extended private >> area (below the bar, that is). So this limits the size of the data set to >> some 1.4 - 1.5 GiB. >> >Well, yes. How often is that a problem? Every now and then, do I have to look for the needle in a days worth of operlog, which was offloaded into a data set. It is extremely helpful when I can work with VIEW. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: codepages
>>VIEW/EDIT should really learn to work in a window mode, so larger data sets >>can be viewed/edited. > >Or use storage above the bar. I'm not a fan of this. How much would you allow it to use? Loading a huge data set into the editor would allocate a huge number frames, just to drop them shortly (whatever that means) thereafter. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 21:31:24 +0100, Peter Hunkeler wrote: >VIEW/EDIT should really learn to work in a window mode, so larger data sets >can be viewed/edited. Or use storage above the bar. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Sat, Feb 03, 2018 at 09:31:24PM +0100, Peter Hunkeler wrote: > >Browse could be useful for a file too large to fit in main storage > >(Nowadays? Really!?) > > ITYM virtual storage rather than main storage. > OK. Picky, picky! > VIEW/EDIT want to be able to read the whole file into the extended private > area (below the bar, that is). So this limits the size of the data set to > some 1.4 - 1.5 GiB. > Well, yes. How often is that a problem? > VIEW/EDIT should really learn to work in a window mode, so larger data sets > can be viewed/edited. > If needed. SMOP? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Re: codepages
>Browse could be useful for a file too large to fit in main storage (Nowadays? >Really!?) ITYM virtual storage rather than main storage. VIEW/EDIT want to be able to read the whole file into the extended private area (below the bar, that is). So this limits the size of the data set to some 1.4 - 1.5 GiB. VIEW/EDIT should really learn to work in a window mode, so larger data sets can be viewed/edited. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 21:36:05 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Is linctape any worse than dectape? > It's wrapped on the hub in the opposite sense. Does that make a difference? IIRC, PDP-12 would process either: just swap the supply and take-up reels. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
Is linctape any worse than dectape? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 3:50 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: codepages On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 20:10:39 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Yes, VIEW is EDIT except when it isn't, and, IMHO, much more useful than >BROWSE. > Browse could be useful for a file too large to fit in main storage (Nowadays? Really!?) It seems to create an index and POINT to requested lines. TECO edited a file a page (delimited by ASCII FF) at a time. No backward movement. A co-worker used an editor on PDP-12 called SCROLL (I never mastered it.) It kept insertions in main memory. On overflow, it updated the file on block-addressable LINC-Tape (imagine peristalsis) and did a SEEK to where it had been. Undo? Didn't you make a copy before you started? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 20:10:39 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Yes, VIEW is EDIT except when it isn't, and, IMHO, much more useful than >BROWSE. > Browse could be useful for a file too large to fit in main storage (Nowadays? Really!?) It seems to create an index and POINT to requested lines. TECO edited a file a page (delimited by ASCII FF) at a time. No backward movement. A co-worker used an editor on PDP-12 called SCROLL (I never mastered it.) It kept insertions in main memory. On overflow, it updated the file on block-addressable LINC-Tape (imagine peristalsis) and did a SEEK to where it had been. Undo? Didn't you make a copy before you started? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
Yes, VIEW is EDIT except when it isn't, and, IMHO, much more useful than BROWSE. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 2:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: codepages On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:22:32 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >What about from VIEW, which is already trailing edge? > Isn't View simply Edit with serialization bypassed and Save disabled? (Does this imply that Edit is likewise trailing edge?) (IBM mainframe editors have the irritating unique feature of requiring the user to name a file at startup rather than deferring that decision until Save.) ___ >From: Roger Bolan >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 11:28 PM > >Not from Browse that I know of. To convert and save the file I would just >use iconv. > But iconv converts the entire file. Edit (Browse?) allows the user to specify which fields to convert. But can it then be Saved with those selected fields converted? >On Jan 28, 2018 9:33 AM, "Paul Gilmartin" wrote: >> >> But my question was, *if* one specifies lines and columns, is there then a >> command to export the entire file, as viewed, to Unicode? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:22:32 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >What about from VIEW, which is already trailing edge? > Isn't View simply Edit with serialization bypassed and Save disabled? (Does this imply that Edit is likewise trailing edge?) (IBM mainframe editors have the irritating unique feature of requiring the user to name a file at startup rather than deferring that decision until Save.) ___ >From: Roger Bolan >Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 11:28 PM > >Not from Browse that I know of. To convert and save the file I would just >use iconv. > But iconv converts the entire file. Edit (Browse?) allows the user to specify which fields to convert. But can it then be Saved with those selected fields converted? >On Jan 28, 2018 9:33 AM, "Paul Gilmartin" wrote: >> >> But my question was, *if* one specifies lines and columns, is there then a >> command to export the entire file, as viewed, to Unicode? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
What about from VIEW, which is already trailing edge? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Roger Bolan Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 11:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: codepages Not from Browse that I know of. To convert and save the file I would just use iconv. On Jan 28, 2018 9:33 AM, "Paul Gilmartin" < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 22:14:54 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: > > >You don't have to specify lines and columns usually. I can DISPLAY UTF8 > >instead of saying DISPLAY CCSID 1208. Typically, I just need DISPLAY > ASCII > >and DISPLAY RESET so I have those on PF keys so I can toggle in and out of > >ASCII. > > > Yes, and if the file is tagged with CCSID, there's no need for the DISPLAY > command. > > But my question was, *if* one specifies lines and columns, is there then a > command > to export the entire file, as viewed, to Unicode? > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
Not from Browse that I know of. To convert and save the file I would just use iconv. On Jan 28, 2018 9:33 AM, "Paul Gilmartin" < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 22:14:54 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: > > >You don't have to specify lines and columns usually. I can DISPLAY UTF8 > >instead of saying DISPLAY CCSID 1208. Typically, I just need DISPLAY > ASCII > >and DISPLAY RESET so I have those on PF keys so I can toggle in and out of > >ASCII. > > > Yes, and if the file is tagged with CCSID, there's no need for the DISPLAY > command. > > But my question was, *if* one specifies lines and columns, is there then a > command > to export the entire file, as viewed, to Unicode? > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 22:14:54 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: >You don't have to specify lines and columns usually. I can DISPLAY UTF8 >instead of saying DISPLAY CCSID 1208. Typically, I just need DISPLAY ASCII >and DISPLAY RESET so I have those on PF keys so I can toggle in and out of >ASCII. > Yes, and if the file is tagged with CCSID, there's no need for the DISPLAY command. But my question was, *if* one specifies lines and columns, is there then a command to export the entire file, as viewed, to Unicode? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
You don't have to specify lines and columns usually. I can DISPLAY UTF8 instead of saying DISPLAY CCSID 1208. Typically, I just need DISPLAY ASCII and DISPLAY RESET so I have those on PF keys so I can toggle in and out of ASCII. On Jan 26, 2018 7:21 PM, "Paul Gilmartin" < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 16:25:51 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: > > >I have to work with data in different code pages all the time. It's not > >too bad in ISPF. > > > >Here's some of the help for the ISPF Browse DISPLAY command: > >display line 1 5 cols 20 30 ccsid 1200 will display > >the characters in lines 1 through 5 at > >columns 20 through 30 as UTF-16 data. > >Acronyms UTF8, UTF16, UTF32, UCS2, UNICODE > >ASCII, USASCII and EBCDIC may be used for > >the subparameter 'CCSID n' where n is the > >relevant CCSID value. > >UTF8 represents CCSID 1208, > >UTF16 - CCSID 1200, UTF32 - CCSID 1232, > >ASCII - CCSID 850, USASCII - CCSID 819, > >UCS2 & UNICODE - CCSID 17584, > >and EBCDIC - CCSID 1047. > >The line and cols parameters are optional > >and if omitted the command applies to the > >full line or column range. If only 1 line > >or column value is given, then the command > >only applies to that line or column. > > > >Here's a link to the list of CCSID code pages provided by ISPF > >https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.3.0/ > com.ibm.zos.v2r3.f54dg00/ecpt.htm#ecpt > > > >In addition, I have various PCOMM profiles set to work with different code > >pages by default, like 1047, 037, ibm420, 1140, 1141, and 273. > > > 1208? (mentioned above) > > Once those fields are tediously defined (I hope this can be done in a > macro. But > is there a limit to the length of the command string?), is there a command > to export > the entire file in Unicode? > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
Roger/all: Thanks to all. My issue is we haven't fully embraced unicode. Unicode would help a lot. I will take a look a ISPF ...see what we can do. Scott On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 9:21 PM, Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 16:25:51 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: > > >I have to work with data in different code pages all the time. It's not > >too bad in ISPF. > > > >Here's some of the help for the ISPF Browse DISPLAY command: > >display line 1 5 cols 20 30 ccsid 1200 will display > >the characters in lines 1 through 5 at > >columns 20 through 30 as UTF-16 data. > >Acronyms UTF8, UTF16, UTF32, UCS2, UNICODE > >ASCII, USASCII and EBCDIC may be used for > >the subparameter 'CCSID n' where n is the > >relevant CCSID value. > >UTF8 represents CCSID 1208, > >UTF16 - CCSID 1200, UTF32 - CCSID 1232, > >ASCII - CCSID 850, USASCII - CCSID 819, > >UCS2 & UNICODE - CCSID 17584, > >and EBCDIC - CCSID 1047. > >The line and cols parameters are optional > >and if omitted the command applies to the > >full line or column range. If only 1 line > >or column value is given, then the command > >only applies to that line or column. > > > >Here's a link to the list of CCSID code pages provided by ISPF > >https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.3.0/ > com.ibm.zos.v2r3.f54dg00/ecpt.htm#ecpt > > > >In addition, I have various PCOMM profiles set to work with different code > >pages by default, like 1047, 037, ibm420, 1140, 1141, and 273. > > > 1208? (mentioned above) > > Once those fields are tediously defined (I hope this can be done in a > macro. But > is there a limit to the length of the command string?), is there a command > to export > the entire file in Unicode? > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- *IDMWORKS * Scott Ford z/OS Dev. “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a friend or collegue you demean yourself” www.idmworks.com scott.f...@idmworks.com Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog *The information contained in this email message and any attachment may be privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this message and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and permanently delete it from your computer and destroy any printout thereof.* -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 16:25:51 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: >I have to work with data in different code pages all the time. It's not >too bad in ISPF. > >Here's some of the help for the ISPF Browse DISPLAY command: >display line 1 5 cols 20 30 ccsid 1200 will display >the characters in lines 1 through 5 at >columns 20 through 30 as UTF-16 data. >Acronyms UTF8, UTF16, UTF32, UCS2, UNICODE >ASCII, USASCII and EBCDIC may be used for >the subparameter 'CCSID n' where n is the >relevant CCSID value. >UTF8 represents CCSID 1208, >UTF16 - CCSID 1200, UTF32 - CCSID 1232, >ASCII - CCSID 850, USASCII - CCSID 819, >UCS2 & UNICODE - CCSID 17584, >and EBCDIC - CCSID 1047. >The line and cols parameters are optional >and if omitted the command applies to the >full line or column range. If only 1 line >or column value is given, then the command >only applies to that line or column. > >Here's a link to the list of CCSID code pages provided by ISPF >https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.f54dg00/ecpt.htm#ecpt > >In addition, I have various PCOMM profiles set to work with different code >pages by default, like 1047, 037, ibm420, 1140, 1141, and 273. > 1208? (mentioned above) Once those fields are tediously defined (I hope this can be done in a macro. But is there a limit to the length of the command string?), is there a command to export the entire file in Unicode? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
I have to work with data in different code pages all the time. It's not too bad in ISPF. Here's some of the help for the ISPF Browse DISPLAY command: display line 1 5 cols 20 30 ccsid 1200 will display the characters in lines 1 through 5 at columns 20 through 30 as UTF-16 data. Acronyms UTF8, UTF16, UTF32, UCS2, UNICODE ASCII, USASCII and EBCDIC may be used for the subparameter 'CCSID n' where n is the relevant CCSID value. UTF8 represents CCSID 1208, UTF16 - CCSID 1200, UTF32 - CCSID 1232, ASCII - CCSID 850, USASCII - CCSID 819, UCS2 & UNICODE - CCSID 17584, and EBCDIC - CCSID 1047. The line and cols parameters are optional and if omitted the command applies to the full line or column range. If only 1 line or column value is given, then the command only applies to that line or column. Here's a link to the list of CCSID code pages provided by ISPF https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.f54dg00/ecpt.htm#ecpt In addition, I have various PCOMM profiles set to work with different code pages by default, like 1047, 037, ibm420, 1140, 1141, and 273. To change PCOMM profile for the default terminal code page, I do have to log off and on, but just to look at the data with ISPF Browse I do not. --Roger On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > How easy is it to change ISPF code page? In my experience ISPF senses the > terminal > code page at startup so I have had to logoff, change my terminal code page > and log on. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:52:23 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: >If you can capture the data and use ISPF Browse DISPLAY command to view the >data with different code pages you might be able to identify the one that >makes sense of all the data. > Is customer consistently using the same code page or several different code pages? How easy is it to change ISPF code page? In my experience ISPF senses the terminal code page at startup so I have had to logoff, change my terminal code page and log on. I'd be inclined to use iconv to convert the input data from each suspected code page to UTF-8, transfer all those output files to a desktop in binary and see which one looks right. Why is the customer always right!? >On Jan 26, 2018 12:02 PM, "scott Ford" wrote: > >> I have an issue where a customer is not forthright in providing us a the >> codepage of data coming into a TCP STC on z/OS ..We bring the data in via a >> Scoket-Read,. Is there any way I can query the datastream and find out what >> codepage it is ? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
I suppose it depends on the data stream.. if there was an XML code page identifier? Although..from your post .. I am guessing not. Is there anything character-wise that you can count on and perform a lookup? Rob On Fri, Jan 26, 2018, 2:52 PM Roger Bolan wrote: > If you can capture the data and use ISPF Browse DISPLAY command to view the > data with different code pages you might be able to identify the one that > makes sense of all the data. > > On Jan 26, 2018 12:02 PM, "scott Ford" wrote: > > > I have an issue where a customer is not forthright in providing us a the > > codepage of data coming into a TCP STC on z/OS ..We bring the data in > via a > > Scoket-Read,. Is there any way I can query the datastream and find out > what > > codepage it is ? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > > > > > > > *IDMWORKS * > > > > Scott Ford > > > > z/OS Dev. > > > > > > > > > > “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a > > friend or collegue you demean yourself” > > > > > > > > www.idmworks.com > > > > scott.f...@idmworks.com > > > > Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog > > > > > > > > > > > > *The information contained in this email message and any attachment may > be > > privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected from > > disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, > > you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or > > use of this message and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you > have > > received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying > to > > the message and permanently delete it from your computer and destroy any > > printout thereof.* > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Rob Schramm -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
Not unless you're running something like HTTP. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of scott Ford Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 2:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: codepages I have an issue where a customer is not forthright in providing us a the codepage of data coming into a TCP STC on z/OS ..We bring the data in via a Scoket-Read,. Is there any way I can query the datastream and find out what codepage it is ? Regards, -- *IDMWORKS * Scott Ford z/OS Dev. “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a friend or collegue you demean yourself” www.idmworks.com scott.f...@idmworks.com Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog *The information contained in this email message and any attachment may be privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this message and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and permanently delete it from your computer and destroy any printout thereof.* -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
If you can capture the data and use ISPF Browse DISPLAY command to view the data with different code pages you might be able to identify the one that makes sense of all the data. On Jan 26, 2018 12:02 PM, "scott Ford" wrote: > I have an issue where a customer is not forthright in providing us a the > codepage of data coming into a TCP STC on z/OS ..We bring the data in via a > Scoket-Read,. Is there any way I can query the datastream and find out what > codepage it is ? > > > Regards, > > -- > > > > *IDMWORKS * > > Scott Ford > > z/OS Dev. > > > > > “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a > friend or collegue you demean yourself” > > > > www.idmworks.com > > scott.f...@idmworks.com > > Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog > > > > > > *The information contained in this email message and any attachment may be > privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected from > disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, > you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or > use of this message and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to > the message and permanently delete it from your computer and destroy any > printout thereof.* > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
I've got a product called NBA for z/OS - Free Edition by ServicePilot. It lets you do a trace off the OSA card and see packets as they come in. Would something like that work? Andrew Arentsen From: "Paul Gilmartin" <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 2018-01-26 13:29 Subject:Re: codepages Sent by:"IBM Mainframe Discussion List" On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 14:01:54 -0500, scott Ford wrote: >I have an issue where a customer is not forthright in providing us a the >codepage of data coming into a TCP STC on z/OS ..We bring the data in via a >Scoket-Read,. Is there any way I can query the datastream and find out what >codepage it is ? > Not really. You might try presuming it's Russian, Hebrew, Greek, ... and seeing if it makes sense in each of those languages. It's a mug's game. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ** This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please tell us immediately by return e-mail and delete the document. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: codepages
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 14:01:54 -0500, scott Ford wrote: >I have an issue where a customer is not forthright in providing us a the >codepage of data coming into a TCP STC on z/OS ..We bring the data in via a >Scoket-Read,. Is there any way I can query the datastream and find out what >codepage it is ? > Not really. You might try presuming it's Russian, Hebrew, Greek, ... and seeing if it makes sense in each of those languages. It's a mug's game. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
