Re: What is a mainframe?
On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:25:52 -0800, Janet Sun <4jl...@gmail.com> wrote: >Hi Steve, > >Kristine Harper created that video some years ago. > >Hope you're doing well. > >-- Janet > Kristine _Bastin_ nee Harper - wife of SHARE President, Justin Bastin. Sadly (for us), she's no longer "working for a mainframe ISV." Scott Fagen 21st Century Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
z.sch...@gmail.com (z/OS scheduler) writes: > IMHO TCP/ip is part and parcel of this new "Open Source / Written by > Hackers" we are living in. > I cannot believe that C.C.I.T.T.would have recommended to IBM to make their > product more hack-able - unless Microsoft or SUN had big influence on > C.C.I.T.T. The original mainframe TCP/IP implementation was done in VS/PASCAL which had none of the typical exploits found commonly in C-language TCP/IP implementatins. The communication group fought fierce battle to prevent its release. When they lost the battle, they then changed their story and said that since it was "communication" it had to be released through the communication group. What shipped would used nearly a whole 3090 processor to get 44kbytes/sec aggregate throughput. I then did the enhancements to support RFC044 and in tuning tests at Cray Research between a Cray and 4341 ... got channel speed sustained throughput using only modest amount of 4341 processor (something like 500 times improvement in bytes moved per instruction executed). Later the communication group hired a silicon valley contractor to implement TCP/IP support directly in VTAM. He initially demonstrated TCP/IP running significantly faster than LU6.2. He was then told that *everybody* knows that a *valid* TCP/IP implementation runs significantly slower than LU6.2 and they would only be paying for a *valid* TCP/IP implementation. After leaving IBM, I was brought in as consultant to small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server (two Oracle people that I had worked with at IBM when we were doing IBM's HA/CMP product were then at startup responsible for something called "commerce server). The startup had invented this technology they called "SSL" they wanted to use, the result is now frequently called "electronic commerce". I had complete responsibility for the server to payment networks ... but could only make recommendations on the client/server side ... some of which were almost immediately violated ... continues to account for some number of exploits. At the time, internet exploits were about half C-language related programming problems and half social enginnering ... with a few misc. other items. Then at 1996 m'soft moscone MDC conference, all the banners said "Internet" ... but the constant refrain in every session was "protect your investment" ... aka Visual Basic applications embedded in data files that would be automagically executed. They were going to transition from the safe, small closed LANs network environments to the wild anarchy of the Internet w/o any additional countermeasures. By the end of the decade over 1/3rd of "internet" exploits were these automagically executed code snippets (the numbers of the other exploits didn't decrease, there was just an explosion of this new category of exploits). Early part of the century I did some work on categorizing exploits in the NIST CVE exploit database ... and tried to get MITRE to require additional information in exploit reports. At the time MITRE said that they had hard enough time getting reports to have any information ... and additional requirements would just inhibit people writting anything. Some archived posts about CVE exploit categrizing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#43 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#0 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#67 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#3 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007q.html#20 old posts about IBM evaluation of the 30yr old gov. MULTICS security evaluation ... implemented in PLI and having none of the exploitable bugs typical in C-lanugage implementations. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#42 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#44 The copy of the IBM paper was originally on IBM website ... but all such websites have since disappeared and I had to find copy at other locations. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
IMHO TCP/ip is part and parcel of this new "Open Source / Written by Hackers" we are living in. I cannot believe that C.C.I.T.T.would have recommended to IBM to make their product more hack-able - unless Microsoft or SUN had big influence on C.C.I.T.T. Op di 14 jan. 2020 om 09:51 schreef Dave Wade : > Folks, > > Its easy to target TCPIP but IMHO the issues are to do with its universal > use, and the libraries used to implement it. > > So I will just remind you all that what I think was one of the first nasty > programs, the "CHRISTMA EXEC" worm, was actually spread over BITNET and > VNET which at the time had no TCPIP. I wonder if any one still has filters > in their RSCS user exists to block such files? > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Tree_EXEC > > Also while the Morris worm > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm > > did spread over TCPIP the holes it exploited did not require TCPIP and the > systems it infected, BSD based systems, are generally thought to be > "secure" but in this case were poorly configured. > > Lastly, many years ago when I was working on the SUCOMMS X.25 package for > UK universities we did find a buffer overrun problem in the VM/SP SNA CCS > code. That is the code that VTAM uses (well I think it still uses) to > present terminals to VM. > > So, if we were using SNA or X25 or BiSync as universal transports, then I > believe we could be finding security holes in them. > > Dave Wade > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Folks, Its easy to target TCPIP but IMHO the issues are to do with its universal use, and the libraries used to implement it. So I will just remind you all that what I think was one of the first nasty programs, the "CHRISTMA EXEC" worm, was actually spread over BITNET and VNET which at the time had no TCPIP. I wonder if any one still has filters in their RSCS user exists to block such files? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Tree_EXEC Also while the Morris worm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm did spread over TCPIP the holes it exploited did not require TCPIP and the systems it infected, BSD based systems, are generally thought to be "secure" but in this case were poorly configured. Lastly, many years ago when I was working on the SUCOMMS X.25 package for UK universities we did find a buffer overrun problem in the VM/SP SNA CCS code. That is the code that VTAM uses (well I think it still uses) to present terminals to VM. So, if we were using SNA or X25 or BiSync as universal transports, then I believe we could be finding security holes in them. Dave Wade -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
IBM supported TCP/IP for the same reason that it earlier supported the ISO OSI and ITU (nee C.C.I.T.T.) recommendations; that where the market, especially the US Federal Government market, seemed to be going. > The most concerning security problems on the mainframe are not caused by > TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and ignorance. IOW, just like the rest of the tech industry. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Knutson, Samuel Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 11:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? In my opinion IBM helped to save the mainframe when they included a built-in highly performant TCP/IP stack in the operating system.Making the mainframe a more mainstream hardware server and more importantly a mainstream software server that communications, API implementations and development practices as any other makes it viable for another 50 years. The alternative path was for it to become a truly niche isolated platform or for this core capability to be supplied by third party software. We saw that same evolution on other platforms if anyone remembers "Trumpet Winsock"😊 The mainframe remains the most securable platform today. z/OS in particular handles TCP/IP in a securable way allowing very granular controls of which application containers can connect to which ports. IBM has a published integrity policy which is applicable to the entire OS including TCP/IP. The most concerning security problems on the mainframe are not caused by TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and ignorance. OEM TCP/IP stacks would have provided this capability and already were when IBM introduced TCP/IP in z/OS. You can make a reasoned argument that by incorporating TCP/IP as part of the operating system IBM has insured it has security and integrity equal to the balance of the operating system. Best Regards, Sam Knutson -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of z/OS scheduler Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could be hacked via TCPIP ports. James O'Leary Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > Well, it is Friday: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd0-pLcgq-2M&data=02%7C01%7CSamuel.Knutso > n%40COMPUWARE.COM%7C609bd2dd893148044b3a08d796d83cc4%7C893e9ba31b7844d > 8aca9105fab957fed%7C0%7C0%7C637143727850910523&sdata=qQqJNcO62gXdN > DUZwk8U0IjSGLtPFgD4dlS2pJIQdY8%3D&reserved=0 > > It's also about a bank :-) > > -- > sas > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
There have been vulnerabilities in some of the protocols. That said, the community has been fairly good about fixing them. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of zMan Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 11:50 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? Eh? That's silly. There's nothing inherent about TCP/IP that makes things hackable. Any connectivity creates potential exposures, whether it's TCP/IP, SNA, bisync... On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 3:53 PM z/OS scheduler wrote: > Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their > servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could > be hacked via TCPIP ports. > > James O'Leary > > Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > > > Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M > > > > It's also about a bank :-) > > > > -- > > sas > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
I remember that IBM supported X.25, APPN corrected a lot of the issues of SNA, and IMHO the industry would have been better off going to the ITU (nee C.C.I.T.T.) X.foo recommendations. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of ITschak Mugzach Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 11:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? tcpip stack on z is just a proof that IBM recognized that the 70's passed. some of you may remember that while the industry standard was x.25, IBM decided that if you want to connect to a mainframe, you need to play IBM's game of SNA. If IBM was rolling the market, these days, we might be still stack with SNA... ITschak On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 6:40 PM Knutson, Samuel < samuel.knut...@compuware.com> wrote: > In my opinion IBM helped to save the mainframe when they included a > built-in highly performant TCP/IP stack in the operating system.Making > the mainframe a more mainstream hardware server and more importantly a > mainstream software server that communications, API implementations and > development practices as any other makes it viable for another 50 years. > The alternative path was for it to become a truly niche isolated platform > or for this core capability to be supplied by third party software. We saw > that same evolution on other platforms if anyone remembers "Trumpet > Winsock"😊 > > The mainframe remains the most securable platform today. z/OS in > particular handles TCP/IP in a securable way allowing very granular > controls of which application containers can connect to which ports. IBM > has a published integrity policy which is applicable to the entire OS > including TCP/IP. The most concerning security problems on the mainframe > are not caused by TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and > ignorance. OEM TCP/IP stacks would have provided this capability and > already were when IBM introduced TCP/IP in z/OS. You can make a reasoned > argument that by incorporating TCP/IP as part of the operating system IBM > has insured it has security and integrity equal to the balance of the > operating system. > > Best Regards, > Sam Knutson > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of z/OS scheduler > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:52 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? > > Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their > servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could > be hacked via TCPIP ports. > > James O'Leary > > Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > > > Well, it is Friday: > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > > youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd0-pLcgq-2M&data=02%7C01%7CSamuel.Knutso > > n%40COMPUWARE.COM%7C609bd2dd893148044b3a08d796d83cc4%7C893e9ba31b7844d > > 8aca9105fab957fed%7C0%7C0%7C637143727850910523&sdata=qQqJNcO62gXdN > > DUZwk8U0IjSGLtPFgD4dlS2pJIQdY8%3D&reserved=0 > > > > It's also about a bank :-) > > > > -- > > sas > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It > contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named > addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or > disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us > immediately and then destroy it > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- ITschak Mugzach *|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring for Legacy **| * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
I disagree. VTAM *was* the center, and remained so with the advent of APPN. What changed is that VTAM no longer required centralized administration. ISO OSI and TCP/IP became available for MVS much later. However, I do agree that it was absolutely necessary for IBM to support TCP/IP once it won the beauty contest with OSI. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Gerhard Adam Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 1:11 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? I think you are absolutely correct There is a reason why VTAM adopted APPN, because it was impossible for VTAM to look and behave as if it were the entire center for every communications need. TCP/IP was inevitable given its large penetration into the home consumer market and the cost for enterprise implementation. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Knutson, Samuel Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 8:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? In my opinion IBM helped to save the mainframe when they included a built-in highly performant TCP/IP stack in the operating system.Making the mainframe a more mainstream hardware server and more importantly a mainstream software server that communications, API implementations and development practices as any other makes it viable for another 50 years. The alternative path was for it to become a truly niche isolated platform or for this core capability to be supplied by third party software. We saw that same evolution on other platforms if anyone remembers "Trumpet Winsock"😊 The mainframe remains the most securable platform today. z/OS in particular handles TCP/IP in a securable way allowing very granular controls of which application containers can connect to which ports. IBM has a published integrity policy which is applicable to the entire OS including TCP/IP. The most concerning security problems on the mainframe are not caused by TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and ignorance. OEM TCP/IP stacks would have provided this capability and already were when IBM introduced TCP/IP in z/OS. You can make a reasoned argument that by incorporating TCP/IP as part of the operating system IBM has insured it has security and integrity equal to the balance of the operating system. Best Regards, Sam Knutson -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of z/OS scheduler Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could be hacked via TCPIP ports. James O'Leary Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > Well, it is Friday: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd0-pLcgq-2M&data=02%7C01%7CSamuel.Knutso > n%40COMPUWARE.COM%7C609bd2dd893148044b3a08d796d83cc4%7C893e9ba31b7844d > 8aca9105fab957fed%7C0%7C0%7C637143727850910523&sdata=qQqJNcO62gXdN > DUZwk8U0IjSGLtPFgD4dlS2pJIQdY8%3D&reserved=0 > > It's also about a bank :-) > > -- > sas > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
I think you are absolutely correct There is a reason why VTAM adopted APPN, because it was impossible for VTAM to look and behave as if it were the entire center for every communications need. TCP/IP was inevitable given its large penetration into the home consumer market and the cost for enterprise implementation. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Knutson, Samuel Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 8:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? In my opinion IBM helped to save the mainframe when they included a built-in highly performant TCP/IP stack in the operating system.Making the mainframe a more mainstream hardware server and more importantly a mainstream software server that communications, API implementations and development practices as any other makes it viable for another 50 years. The alternative path was for it to become a truly niche isolated platform or for this core capability to be supplied by third party software. We saw that same evolution on other platforms if anyone remembers "Trumpet Winsock"😊 The mainframe remains the most securable platform today. z/OS in particular handles TCP/IP in a securable way allowing very granular controls of which application containers can connect to which ports. IBM has a published integrity policy which is applicable to the entire OS including TCP/IP. The most concerning security problems on the mainframe are not caused by TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and ignorance. OEM TCP/IP stacks would have provided this capability and already were when IBM introduced TCP/IP in z/OS. You can make a reasoned argument that by incorporating TCP/IP as part of the operating system IBM has insured it has security and integrity equal to the balance of the operating system. Best Regards, Sam Knutson -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of z/OS scheduler Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could be hacked via TCPIP ports. James O'Leary Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > Well, it is Friday: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd0-pLcgq-2M&data=02%7C01%7CSamuel.Knutso > n%40COMPUWARE.COM%7C609bd2dd893148044b3a08d796d83cc4%7C893e9ba31b7844d > 8aca9105fab957fed%7C0%7C0%7C637143727850910523&sdata=qQqJNcO62gXdN > DUZwk8U0IjSGLtPFgD4dlS2pJIQdY8%3D&reserved=0 > > It's also about a bank :-) > > -- > sas > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Of course! Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Knutson, Samuel Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 8:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? In my opinion IBM helped to save the mainframe when they included a built-in highly performant TCP/IP stack in the operating system.Making the mainframe a more mainstream hardware server and more importantly a mainstream software server that communications, API implementations and development practices as any other makes it viable for another 50 years. The alternative path was for it to become a truly niche isolated platform or for this core capability to be supplied by third party software. We saw that same evolution on other platforms if anyone remembers "Trumpet Winsock"😊 The mainframe remains the most securable platform today. z/OS in particular handles TCP/IP in a securable way allowing very granular controls of which application containers can connect to which ports. IBM has a published integrity policy which is applicable to the entire OS including TCP/IP. The most concerning security problems on the mainframe are not caused by TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and ignorance. OEM TCP/IP stacks would have provided this capability and already were when IBM introduced TCP/IP in z/OS. You can make a reasoned argument that by incorporating TCP/IP as part of the operating system IBM has insured it has security and integrity equal to the balance of the operating system. Best Regards, Sam Knutson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
On 1/13/20 9:50 AM, zMan wrote: Eh? That's silly. There's nothing inherent about TCP/IP that makes things hackable. Any connectivity creates potential exposures, whether it's TCP/IP, SNA, bisync... I do think there is something to be said about the size of the potential pool of attackers via different connectivity methods. With that in mind, TCP/IP has a *LOT* bigger pool of potential attackers than SNA or bisync. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
tcpip stack on z is just a proof that IBM recognized that the 70's passed. some of you may remember that while the industry standard was x.25, IBM decided that if you want to connect to a mainframe, you need to play IBM's game of SNA. If IBM was rolling the market, these days, we might be still stack with SNA... ITschak On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 6:40 PM Knutson, Samuel < samuel.knut...@compuware.com> wrote: > In my opinion IBM helped to save the mainframe when they included a > built-in highly performant TCP/IP stack in the operating system.Making > the mainframe a more mainstream hardware server and more importantly a > mainstream software server that communications, API implementations and > development practices as any other makes it viable for another 50 years. > The alternative path was for it to become a truly niche isolated platform > or for this core capability to be supplied by third party software. We saw > that same evolution on other platforms if anyone remembers "Trumpet > Winsock"😊 > > The mainframe remains the most securable platform today. z/OS in > particular handles TCP/IP in a securable way allowing very granular > controls of which application containers can connect to which ports. IBM > has a published integrity policy which is applicable to the entire OS > including TCP/IP. The most concerning security problems on the mainframe > are not caused by TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and > ignorance. OEM TCP/IP stacks would have provided this capability and > already were when IBM introduced TCP/IP in z/OS. You can make a reasoned > argument that by incorporating TCP/IP as part of the operating system IBM > has insured it has security and integrity equal to the balance of the > operating system. > > Best Regards, > Sam Knutson > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of z/OS scheduler > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:52 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? > > Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their > servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could > be hacked via TCPIP ports. > > James O'Leary > > Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > > > Well, it is Friday: > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > > youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd0-pLcgq-2M&data=02%7C01%7CSamuel.Knutso > > n%40COMPUWARE.COM%7C609bd2dd893148044b3a08d796d83cc4%7C893e9ba31b7844d > > 8aca9105fab957fed%7C0%7C0%7C637143727850910523&sdata=qQqJNcO62gXdN > > DUZwk8U0IjSGLtPFgD4dlS2pJIQdY8%3D&reserved=0 > > > > It's also about a bank :-) > > > > -- > > sas > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It > contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named > addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or > disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us > immediately and then destroy it > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- ITschak Mugzach *|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring for Legacy **| * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Eh? That's silly. There's nothing inherent about TCP/IP that makes things hackable. Any connectivity creates potential exposures, whether it's TCP/IP, SNA, bisync... On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 3:53 PM z/OS scheduler wrote: > Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their > servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could > be hacked via TCPIP ports. > > James O'Leary > > Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > > > Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M > > > > It's also about a bank :-) > > > > -- > > sas > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
In my opinion IBM helped to save the mainframe when they included a built-in highly performant TCP/IP stack in the operating system.Making the mainframe a more mainstream hardware server and more importantly a mainstream software server that communications, API implementations and development practices as any other makes it viable for another 50 years. The alternative path was for it to become a truly niche isolated platform or for this core capability to be supplied by third party software. We saw that same evolution on other platforms if anyone remembers "Trumpet Winsock"😊 The mainframe remains the most securable platform today. z/OS in particular handles TCP/IP in a securable way allowing very granular controls of which application containers can connect to which ports. IBM has a published integrity policy which is applicable to the entire OS including TCP/IP. The most concerning security problems on the mainframe are not caused by TCP/IP but by Apathy, laziness, false confidence and ignorance. OEM TCP/IP stacks would have provided this capability and already were when IBM introduced TCP/IP in z/OS. You can make a reasoned argument that by incorporating TCP/IP as part of the operating system IBM has insured it has security and integrity equal to the balance of the operating system. Best Regards, Sam Knutson -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of z/OS scheduler Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could be hacked via TCPIP ports. James O'Leary Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > Well, it is Friday: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dd0-pLcgq-2M&data=02%7C01%7CSamuel.Knutso > n%40COMPUWARE.COM%7C609bd2dd893148044b3a08d796d83cc4%7C893e9ba31b7844d > 8aca9105fab957fed%7C0%7C0%7C637143727850910523&sdata=qQqJNcO62gXdN > DUZwk8U0IjSGLtPFgD4dlS2pJIQdY8%3D&reserved=0 > > It's also about a bank :-) > > -- > sas > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Matt: I totally agree. A lot of folks dont realize its not always TCPIP and the Web, there's more to z/OS then those items. Many aspects that can be developed and used. I spent 15+ yrs in the VTAM/NCP/NPSI arena including hardware and software and it provided IMHO an excellent foundation. Regards, Scott z/OS Lead IDMWORKS On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 11:21 AM Matt Hogstrom wrote: > I was talking to some of our new hires the other day and none of them had > heard of SNA, APPLIDs or VTAM. I prefer to think of this as the evolution > of the mainframe continuing to preserve investment over time :) > > Still, cloud continues to try and replicate the scalability of Sysplex and > TCPIP is a significant barrier so consider it more of a port of entry and > not the whole story. > > Matt Hogstrom > PGP key 0F143BC1 > > > On Jan 11, 2020, at 15:53, z/OS scheduler wrote: > > > > Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their > > servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could > > be hacked via TCPIP ports. > > > > James O'Leary > > > > Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > > > >> Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M > >> > >> It's also about a bank :-) > >> > >> -- > >> sas > >> > >> -- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >> > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- *IDMWORKS * Scott Ford z/OS Dev. “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a friend or collegue you demean yourself” www.idmworks.com scott.f...@idmworks.com Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog *The information contained in this email message and any attachment may be privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this message and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and permanently delete it from your computer and destroy any printout thereof.* -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
I was talking to some of our new hires the other day and none of them had heard of SNA, APPLIDs or VTAM. I prefer to think of this as the evolution of the mainframe continuing to preserve investment over time :) Still, cloud continues to try and replicate the scalability of Sysplex and TCPIP is a significant barrier so consider it more of a port of entry and not the whole story. Matt Hogstrom PGP key 0F143BC1 > On Jan 11, 2020, at 15:53, z/OS scheduler wrote: > > Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their > servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could > be hacked via TCPIP ports. > > James O'Leary > > Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > >> Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M >> >> It's also about a bank :-) >> >> -- >> sas >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Welll, in my opinion the mainframe died when IBM allowed tcpip on their servers. From that point onwards it just became another server that could be hacked via TCPIP ports. James O'Leary Op vr 10 jan. 2020 om 21:05 schreef Steve Smith : > Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M > > It's also about a bank :-) > > -- > sas > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Of course one of the things that makes it amusing is that all highly skilled teckies get irritated by people that are too dumb to realize they are dumb. If you continue watching to the end of the video, the next video that was selected by YouTube is a serious history of the mainframe "Big Iron: The Mainframe Story". JC Ewing On 1/10/20 5:30 PM, Charles Mills wrote: The words "text-to-video" appeared somewhere, didn't they? As an AI-type exercise then I guess it is fairly amusing. As far as illuminating the mainframe/white box rivalry -- not so much. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 2:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? I don't know the provenance... grabbed off an internal IBM forum. Seems I heard/saw something about an automatic text-to-video generator. Which seems plausible :-). sas On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 4:34 PM Charles Mills wrote: Was the script written by Watson? Was this animated on a 4341? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 1:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: What is a mainframe? Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M ... -- Joel C. Ewing -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Hi Steve, Kristine Harper created that video some years ago. Hope you're doing well. -- Janet On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:35 PM Steve Smith wrote: > I don't know the provenance... grabbed off an internal IBM forum. Seems I > heard/saw something about an automatic text-to-video generator. Which > seems plausible :-). > > sas > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 4:34 PM Charles Mills wrote: > > > Was the script written by Watson? Was this animated on a 4341? > > > > Charles > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Steve Smith > > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 1:05 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: What is a mainframe? > > > > Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M > > > > It's also about a bank :-) > > > > -- > > sas > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > sas > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
The words "text-to-video" appeared somewhere, didn't they? As an AI-type exercise then I guess it is fairly amusing. As far as illuminating the mainframe/white box rivalry -- not so much. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 2:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What is a mainframe? I don't know the provenance... grabbed off an internal IBM forum. Seems I heard/saw something about an automatic text-to-video generator. Which seems plausible :-). sas On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 4:34 PM Charles Mills wrote: > Was the script written by Watson? Was this animated on a 4341? > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Steve Smith > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 1:05 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: What is a mainframe? > > Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
I don't know the provenance... grabbed off an internal IBM forum. Seems I heard/saw something about an automatic text-to-video generator. Which seems plausible :-). sas On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 4:34 PM Charles Mills wrote: > Was the script written by Watson? Was this animated on a 4341? > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Steve Smith > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 1:05 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: What is a mainframe? > > Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M > > It's also about a bank :-) > > -- > sas > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- sas -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
I'm reassured that--even though I did not go to Harvard--I am actually very smart. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 1:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):What is a mainframe? Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M It's also about a bank :-) -- sas -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: What is a mainframe?
Was the script written by Watson? Was this animated on a 4341? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 1:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: What is a mainframe? Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M It's also about a bank :-) -- sas -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
What is a mainframe?
Well, it is Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-pLcgq-2M It's also about a bank :-) -- sas -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
