Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
On 1/11/2017 9:17 AM, Kirk Wolf wrote: Curious: Is there something relative to RACF keyrings or TLS 1.2 in Tomcat8 / SDK8 that can't be done with Tomcat 7 and z/OS SDK 7? Tomcat 7 does not properly handle the "safkeyring:///" protocol specification even when java.protocol.handler.pkgs environment variable is set to com.ibm.crypto.provider. It sees the text string as a file name, not a protocol. This was fixed in Tomcat 8. [We verified it worked in Tomcat 8.5.5.] Once we moved to Tomcat 8, there was a bug (that did not exist in Tomcat 7) that prevented us from using TLSv1.2. This was fixed in Tomcat 8.5.6. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Who's using Java 8
On 13/01/2017 5:21 PM, Timothy Sipples wrote: David Crayford asked: Are CICS customers allowed to run WLP outside of CICS? I'm not sure, but does it matter? If desired, Liberty can be in a completely separate, standalone CICS region. As it happens, Liberty within CICS supports CICS transaction and resource security, and that's quite special. Unfortunately it does matter. We can ship an install job and have a web server up and running in minutes. If we need to rely on a CICS sysprog to install a system with WLP it's a POC obstacle. If it does matter, and if your customers don't already have WAS for z/OS licenses, then "ask your friendly IBM representative" about standalone Liberty for z/OS OEM licensing. It at least can't hurt. The term of art is an "IBM Embedded Solution Agreement" (ESA): https://www-356.ibm.com/partnerworld/wps/servlet/ContentHandler/pw_com_sol-embedded-solution-agreement Interesting! Thanks for the link. Is there a cost associated with ESA? By the way, there are many Liberty z/OS affinities besides the simple one you describe. Examples include z/OS operator commands, SMF logging (such as writing SMF records for HTTP requests), the z/OS Optimized Local Adapters, z/OS RRS transaction management, and WLM support. All good stuff but most of it we don't need. Operator commands and SMF logging are trivial to implement in Java using JZOS when you have the source code for the server. Timothy Sipples IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Who's using Java 8
David Crayford asked: >Are CICS customers allowed to run WLP outside of CICS? I'm not sure, but does it matter? If desired, Liberty can be in a completely separate, standalone CICS region. As it happens, Liberty within CICS supports CICS transaction and resource security, and that's quite special. If it does matter, and if your customers don't already have WAS for z/OS licenses, then "ask your friendly IBM representative" about standalone Liberty for z/OS OEM licensing. It at least can't hurt. The term of art is an "IBM Embedded Solution Agreement" (ESA): https://www-356.ibm.com/partnerworld/wps/servlet/ContentHandler/pw_com_sol-embedded-solution-agreement By the way, there are many Liberty z/OS affinities besides the simple one you describe. Examples include z/OS operator commands, SMF logging (such as writing SMF records for HTTP requests), the z/OS Optimized Local Adapters, z/OS RRS transaction management, and WLM support. Timothy Sipples IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Who's using Java 8
On 12/01/2017 3:17 PM, Timothy Sipples wrote: Have you looked at Liberty Profile yet? Yes. It's attractive but there are licensing issues. Your customers with CICS TS 5+ for z/OS or WAS 8.5+ for z/OS licensing already have Liberty Profile licensing, and some of them probably already use Liberty. If you think one or more of your target customers won't have any of those products then just ask IBM about OEM licensing if you haven't already. (It can't hurt to ask, at least.) There's also a blanket Liberty runtime license (<=2GB heap) that might be appropriate to your needs, but (again) ask IBM. Are CICS customers allowed to run WLP outside of CICS? Liberty Profile is obviously going to have the greatest z/OS affinities (features, supportability, performance, security, etc.) So if it's there, or easily obtainable, why not? I'd avoid needless complexity if you can. Well I would agree on supportability because if we ship a web server then we have to support it. The good thing is that it's open source so we've got the source code to do just that if the vendor is too slow to fix problems. Feature wise I can quite easily put together my own stack using open source Java libraries. A quick squiz at the WLP lib directory shows it's pretty much using the same set of open source libraries. And there's a lot of stuff in there I don't need that's just bloat. Our server serves a REST API and a single page application so there's not need for JSPs etc. Security is interesting. Kirk shared dovetails Tomcat SAF realm code which was much appreciated. Using that as a base it's trivial to write a Jetty login module that uses SAF authentication. It shouldn't be too difficult to implement thread level security using the Java SAF packages although I'm not sure if I want to do that. Timothy Sipples IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Who's using Java 8
Have you looked at Liberty Profile yet? Your customers with CICS TS 5+ for z/OS or WAS 8.5+ for z/OS licensing already have Liberty Profile licensing, and some of them probably already use Liberty. If you think one or more of your target customers won't have any of those products then just ask IBM about OEM licensing if you haven't already. (It can't hurt to ask, at least.) There's also a blanket Liberty runtime license (<=2GB heap) that might be appropriate to your needs, but (again) ask IBM. Liberty Profile is obviously going to have the greatest z/OS affinities (features, supportability, performance, security, etc.) So if it's there, or easily obtainable, why not? I'd avoid needless complexity if you can. Timothy Sipples IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
On 12/01/2017 1:17 AM, Kirk Wolf wrote: Jetty has always been nice in terms of how you can customize and embed it. That's right. Jetty has a pluggable architecture which makes it perfect for embedding. You can also strip it back to the bare bones. Don't want servlet sessions? Strip out the module. Tomcat is pretty lightweight but Jetty is super skinny. You can embed Tomcat too but it's nowhere near as clean as Jetty. The Jetty mantra is that you put the web server into your application. That resonates with me. whereas Tomcat is more recognized as the de-facto reference open source Servlet container for web app developers. That's because Tomcat was the first servlet container. In recent years Jetty has pioneered several technologies that have made it into the servlet specification. Asynchronous servlets the most important. There's nothing wrong with Tomcat, but Jetty seems to me to have a better architecture. It also has some nice integrations. The maven plugin allows to you run a web app without assembling a WAR! Fantastic for development. Prior to IBM's acquisition of JZOS, we used to include sample JCL with JZOS for starting both Tomcat and Jetty using the JZOS batch launcher. Here's a post in our Community forum from 2005 that mentions support for this with IBM Java SDK 1.3! http://community.dovetail.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=122 Curious: Is there something relative to RACF keyrings or TLS 1.2 in Tomcat8 / SDK8 that can't be done with Tomcat 7 and z/OS SDK 7? http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/tools/java/products/j5security.html I suppose that some of the JCE/JSSE interfaces are cleaner in Java8 ? http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/security/enhancements-8.html Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Ed Jaffe wrote: On 12/21/2016 7:18 AM, David Crayford wrote: We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. We use Tomcat 8.5.6 on top of Java 8, which gives us RACF keyring and TLS 1.2 support. Is Jetty a good alternative to Tomcat for ISVs? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
Hi Ed, Jetty has always been nice in terms of how you can customize and embed it. That's its niche (with system integrators), whereas Tomcat is more recognized as the de-facto reference open source Servlet container for web app developers. Prior to IBM's acquisition of JZOS, we used to include sample JCL with JZOS for starting both Tomcat and Jetty using the JZOS batch launcher. Here's a post in our Community forum from 2005 that mentions support for this with IBM Java SDK 1.3! http://community.dovetail.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=122 Curious: Is there something relative to RACF keyrings or TLS 1.2 in Tomcat8 / SDK8 that can't be done with Tomcat 7 and z/OS SDK 7? http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/tools/java/products/j5security.html I suppose that some of the JCE/JSSE interfaces are cleaner in Java8 ? http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/security/enhancements-8.html Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Ed Jaffe wrote: > On 12/21/2016 7:18 AM, David Crayford wrote: > >> We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java >> application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. >> > > We use Tomcat 8.5.6 on top of Java 8, which gives us RACF keyring and TLS > 1.2 support. > > Is Jetty a good alternative to Tomcat for ISVs? > > -- > Edward E Jaffe > Phoenix Software International, Inc > 831 Parkview Drive North > El Segundo, CA 90245 > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
On 12/21/2016 7:18 AM, David Crayford wrote: We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. We use Tomcat 8.5.6 on top of Java 8, which gives us RACF keyring and TLS 1.2 support. Is Jetty a good alternative to Tomcat for ISVs? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
Kirk, We currently use your Tomcat 7 port for dev but we're going to move to Jetty for technical reasons. Java 8 gives us better options WRT libraries. We can ditch Joda for the JRE datatime package and use modern techniques like lamdas. Not to mention the other reasons others have posted to my survey. Of course, we will have to implement our own login module and SAF support but Jetty has good support for that. One of the features I particularly liked about your Tomcat port was the zfile URL protocol handler. We will have to write one if we decide to use PDS data sets for config files. David, FYI, we recently updated our free z/OS port / packaging / enhancements to Apache Tomcat to include Tomcat 8, which requires Java 7. https://dovetail.com/products/tomcat.html Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:18 AM, David Crayford wrote: We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. We decided to use Java 7 because most sites probably have that installed already and having a dependency on Java 8 might be POC obstacle for some sites. But Java 8 has a lot of benefits. I'm wondering how common Java 8 is at your site? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
David, FYI, we recently updated our free z/OS port / packaging / enhancements to Apache Tomcat to include Tomcat 8, which requires Java 7. https://dovetail.com/products/tomcat.html Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:18 AM, David Crayford wrote: > We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java > application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. > > We decided to use Java 7 because most sites probably have that installed > already and having a dependency on Java 8 might be POC obstacle for some > sites. But Java 8 has a lot of benefits. > > I'm wondering how common Java 8 is at your site? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
Going in next month along with z/OS 2.2. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Crayford Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 9:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8 We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. We decided to use Java 7 because most sites probably have that installed already and having a dependency on Java 8 might be POC obstacle for some sites. But Java 8 has a lot of benefits. I'm wondering how common Java 8 is at your site? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
I second Kees statement, in my prior job we seem to be constantly installing patches or making sure to go to the latest release of JAVA to make our security team happy! Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 UFIT University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 10:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8 Java 8 (highest version) is more or less pushed here because of security leaks in lower versions. I am happy to be able to run the version required by Omegamon Tivoli, but not everybody will be that lucky. You'd better go for the highest version, and be prepared to keep up with coming versions, or not use Java at all. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Crayford Sent: 21 December, 2016 16:18 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8 We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. We decided to use Java 7 because most sites probably have that installed already and having a dependency on Java 8 might be POC obstacle for some sites. But Java 8 has a lot of benefits. I'm wondering how common Java 8 is at your site? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
Java 8 (highest version) is more or less pushed here because of security leaks in lower versions. I am happy to be able to run the version required by Omegamon Tivoli, but not everybody will be that lucky. You'd better go for the highest version, and be prepared to keep up with coming versions, or not use Java at all. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Crayford Sent: 21 December, 2016 16:18 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8 We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. We decided to use Java 7 because most sites probably have that installed already and having a dependency on Java 8 might be POC obstacle for some sites. But Java 8 has a lot of benefits. I'm wondering how common Java 8 is at your site? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
Just about to order it I'm wondering how common Java 8 is at your site? ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
[SURVEY] Who's using Java 8
We're currently developing a product with a web UI that uses a Java application server running on z/OS, either Tomcat or Jetty. We decided to use Java 7 because most sites probably have that installed already and having a dependency on Java 8 might be POC obstacle for some sites. But Java 8 has a lot of benefits. I'm wondering how common Java 8 is at your site? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN