Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
>> who cannot separate z/OS the operating system from Z hardware. Let alone people who believe that z/OS is the only op-sys running on z hardware. Just for the record: there is an actual version of z/VSE - z/VM - z/TPF Martin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
On Tue, 23 May 2023 08:59:58 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >... >USS is bi-modal as are the C/C++ compilers. I run everything in USS in >ASCII mode. All of Rocket and IBMs z/OS UNIX ports are in ASCII. > Is there an ASCII shell (perhaps Rocket bash?) in which I can readily, from desktop ssh: 518 $ printf '\141\142\143\012' abc 519 $ Can it smoothly invoke all the OMVS utilities needed for POSIX compliance? Long ago I wanted to port a couple FOSS programs in "enhanced ASCKK". I gave up on Lynx because there's ASCII Curses library. I gave up on xterm because there's no ASCII X11 library. >Not just I/O bandwidth. One of the real differentiators is that Z can >run at 100%. There is an excellent blog by Bob Rogers which explains how >this achieved. > >https://blog.share.org/Article/how-does-ibm-z-achieve-efficiency-at-exceedingly-high-utilization-rates > Even earlier, a soi-disant sysadmin tried tuning our 370 clone running MVS 3.8 (IIRC). He beamed triumphantly when when he got CPU to nearly 100% and SIO high. As end user I found TSO response had become dismal. He outranked me; I didn't complain. Using high CPU utilization as a performance criterion is akin using high weight as a criterion in aircraft design. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
On 22/5/2023 11:22 pm, Rick Troth wrote: Rex is right. Linux (Z or otherwise) is a different operating system. And it's "full ASCII". USS, also known as OMVS, has been an integral part of MVS (now known as z/OS) since the mid 1990s. IBM has put more and more function into USS, even moving things from the "traditional" side. USS is really an excellent piece of work, even though it does speak EBCDIC. (Which, being Unix in every other way, really confuses newcomers.) USS is bi-modal as are the C/C++ compilers. I run everything in USS in ASCII mode. All of Rocket and IBMs z/OS UNIX ports are in ASCII. A growing number of people do in fact buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it. They can go native (LPAR) or on top of z/VM. But that's not USS (with or without VM). Z hardware is phenomenal. There's nothing like it. From time to time, a potential customer will recognize the value of that hardware, regardless what software workload they anticipate. Of course, if they want the data moving power of a diesel locomotive, they should go with z/OS. But for lots of other workloads, they'll want Linux. No problem! Not just I/O bandwidth. One of the real differentiators is that Z can run at 100%. There is an excellent blog by Bob Rogers which explains how this achieved. https://blog.share.org/Article/how-does-ibm-z-achieve-efficiency-at-exceedingly-high-utilization-rates Just ... watch out ... be wary of the folks who mislabel it "Linux for z/OS". Even with more than 20 years of "Linux for Z", there are still many people out there who cannot separate z/OS the operating system from Z hardware. Does zCX constitute "Linux for z/OS"? z/OS (zCX) is the hypervisor and it's running s390x Linux containers. I've been working with a RedHat OCP cluster running on z/OS which is interesting. -- R; <>< On 5/22/23 10:40, Pommier, Rex wrote: Hi Bob, Linux on Z and OMVS are 2 completely different animals. OMVS is an integral part of z/OS (try running TCP/IP without it for example). zLinux is a completely separate operating system, running in an LPAR or on top of VM just like another OS image. Another difference is that OMVS (as part of z/OS) runs EBCDIC where I believe zLinux is a full ASCII OS running on the z hardware. Rex From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 9:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Are Banks Breaking Up With Mainframes? | Forbes Wait, did I misunderstand this? People buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it?! (Color me ignorant, but I've always thought of OMVS as a late add-on.) --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
People tend to be knowingly sloppy about their language. Other people hear them and assume that what they hear is accurate. Sometimes they miss subtle nuances, like the interrogative tone of the Yiddish "I could care less?", and come up with utter absurdities. Then they act on what they think they know; hilarity ensues (assuming that you're not the one who has to clean up after them.) ObQoheleth1:10 I believe that this has been going on since my Uncle Crow and aunt Maggie. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Pommier, Rex [rpomm...@sfgmembers.com] Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 11:36 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes) Hi Rick, Thanks for the confirmation. I was meandering the internet to remove the last shred of doubt about zLinux being full ASCII and was somewhat dismayed at the number of hits I got talking about "Linux for z/OS" No it ain't!!! :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Troth Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 10:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes) Rex is right. Linux (Z or otherwise) is a different operating system. And it's "full ASCII". USS, also known as OMVS, has been an integral part of MVS (now known as z/OS) since the mid 1990s. IBM has put more and more function into USS, even moving things from the "traditional" side. USS is really an excellent piece of work, even though it does speak EBCDIC. (Which, being Unix in every other way, really confuses newcomers.) A growing number of people do in fact buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it. They can go native (LPAR) or on top of z/VM. But that's not USS (with or without VM). Z hardware is phenomenal. There's nothing like it. From time to time, a potential customer will recognize the value of that hardware, regardless what software workload they anticipate. Of course, if they want the data moving power of a diesel locomotive, they should go with z/OS. But for lots of other workloads, they'll want Linux. No problem! Just ... watch out ... be wary of the folks who mislabel it "Linux for z/OS". Even with more than 20 years of "Linux for Z", there are still many people out there who cannot separate z/OS the operating system from Z hardware. -- R; <>< On 5/22/23 10:40, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Linux on Z and OMVS are 2 completely different animals. OMVS is an integral > part of z/OS (try running TCP/IP without it for example). zLinux is a > completely separate operating system, running in an LPAR or on top of VM just > like another OS image. Another difference is that OMVS (as part of z/OS) > runs EBCDIC where I believe zLinux is a full ASCII OS running on the z > hardware. > > Rex > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > behalf of Bob Bridges > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 9:48 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Are Banks Breaking Up With Mainframes? | Forbes > > Wait, did I misunderstand this? People buy their first mainframe and run > Linux on it?! > > (Color me ignorant, but I've always thought of OMVS as a late add-on.) > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not t
Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
Announced Feb 9, 1993 <https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/0/897/ENUS293-060/index.html>; available Mar 25, 1994 <https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/9/897/ENUS294-109/index.html>. Merged into base with MVS/SEA SP V5. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rick Troth [tro...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 11:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes) Rex is right. Linux (Z or otherwise) is a different operating system. And it's "full ASCII". USS, also known as OMVS, has been an integral part of MVS (now known as z/OS) since the mid 1990s. IBM has put more and more function into USS, even moving things from the "traditional" side. USS is really an excellent piece of work, even though it does speak EBCDIC. (Which, being Unix in every other way, really confuses newcomers.) A growing number of people do in fact buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it. They can go native (LPAR) or on top of z/VM. But that's not USS (with or without VM). Z hardware is phenomenal. There's nothing like it. From time to time, a potential customer will recognize the value of that hardware, regardless what software workload they anticipate. Of course, if they want the data moving power of a diesel locomotive, they should go with z/OS. But for lots of other workloads, they'll want Linux. No problem! Just ... watch out ... be wary of the folks who mislabel it "Linux for z/OS". Even with more than 20 years of "Linux for Z", there are still many people out there who cannot separate z/OS the operating system from Z hardware. -- R; <>< On 5/22/23 10:40, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Linux on Z and OMVS are 2 completely different animals. OMVS is an integral > part of z/OS (try running TCP/IP without it for example). zLinux is a > completely separate operating system, running in an LPAR or on top of VM just > like another OS image. Another difference is that OMVS (as part of z/OS) > runs EBCDIC where I believe zLinux is a full ASCII OS running on the z > hardware. > > Rex > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Bob Bridges > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 9:48 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Are Banks Breaking Up With Mainframes? | Forbes > > Wait, did I misunderstand this? People buy their first mainframe and run > Linux on it?! > > (Color me ignorant, but I've always thought of OMVS as a late add-on.) > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
Hi Rick, Thanks for the confirmation. I was meandering the internet to remove the last shred of doubt about zLinux being full ASCII and was somewhat dismayed at the number of hits I got talking about "Linux for z/OS" No it ain't!!! :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Troth Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 10:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes) Rex is right. Linux (Z or otherwise) is a different operating system. And it's "full ASCII". USS, also known as OMVS, has been an integral part of MVS (now known as z/OS) since the mid 1990s. IBM has put more and more function into USS, even moving things from the "traditional" side. USS is really an excellent piece of work, even though it does speak EBCDIC. (Which, being Unix in every other way, really confuses newcomers.) A growing number of people do in fact buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it. They can go native (LPAR) or on top of z/VM. But that's not USS (with or without VM). Z hardware is phenomenal. There's nothing like it. From time to time, a potential customer will recognize the value of that hardware, regardless what software workload they anticipate. Of course, if they want the data moving power of a diesel locomotive, they should go with z/OS. But for lots of other workloads, they'll want Linux. No problem! Just ... watch out ... be wary of the folks who mislabel it "Linux for z/OS". Even with more than 20 years of "Linux for Z", there are still many people out there who cannot separate z/OS the operating system from Z hardware. -- R; <>< On 5/22/23 10:40, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Linux on Z and OMVS are 2 completely different animals. OMVS is an integral > part of z/OS (try running TCP/IP without it for example). zLinux is a > completely separate operating system, running in an LPAR or on top of VM just > like another OS image. Another difference is that OMVS (as part of z/OS) > runs EBCDIC where I believe zLinux is a full ASCII OS running on the z > hardware. > > Rex > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > behalf of Bob Bridges > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 9:48 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Are Banks Breaking Up With Mainframes? | Forbes > > Wait, did I misunderstand this? People buy their first mainframe and run > Linux on it?! > > (Color me ignorant, but I've always thought of OMVS as a late add-on.) > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
Rex is right. Linux (Z or otherwise) is a different operating system. And it's "full ASCII". USS, also known as OMVS, has been an integral part of MVS (now known as z/OS) since the mid 1990s. IBM has put more and more function into USS, even moving things from the "traditional" side. USS is really an excellent piece of work, even though it does speak EBCDIC. (Which, being Unix in every other way, really confuses newcomers.) A growing number of people do in fact buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it. They can go native (LPAR) or on top of z/VM. But that's not USS (with or without VM). Z hardware is phenomenal. There's nothing like it. From time to time, a potential customer will recognize the value of that hardware, regardless what software workload they anticipate. Of course, if they want the data moving power of a diesel locomotive, they should go with z/OS. But for lots of other workloads, they'll want Linux. No problem! Just ... watch out ... be wary of the folks who mislabel it "Linux for z/OS". Even with more than 20 years of "Linux for Z", there are still many people out there who cannot separate z/OS the operating system from Z hardware. -- R; <>< On 5/22/23 10:40, Pommier, Rex wrote: Hi Bob, Linux on Z and OMVS are 2 completely different animals. OMVS is an integral part of z/OS (try running TCP/IP without it for example). zLinux is a completely separate operating system, running in an LPAR or on top of VM just like another OS image. Another difference is that OMVS (as part of z/OS) runs EBCDIC where I believe zLinux is a full ASCII OS running on the z hardware. Rex From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 9:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Are Banks Breaking Up With Mainframes? | Forbes Wait, did I misunderstand this? People buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it?! (Color me ignorant, but I've always thought of OMVS as a late add-on.) --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
zLinux (was are banks breaking up with mainframes)
Hi Bob, Linux on Z and OMVS are 2 completely different animals. OMVS is an integral part of z/OS (try running TCP/IP without it for example). zLinux is a completely separate operating system, running in an LPAR or on top of VM just like another OS image. Another difference is that OMVS (as part of z/OS) runs EBCDIC where I believe zLinux is a full ASCII OS running on the z hardware. Rex From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 9:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Are Banks Breaking Up With Mainframes? | Forbes Wait, did I misunderstand this? People buy their first mainframe and run Linux on it?! (Color me ignorant, but I've always thought of OMVS as a late add-on.) --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
