Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:54 PM, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.net wrote: How come Z hardware doesn't come with one of these? 8-) Because the machines are mostly installed in places where you don't have sufficiently open sky to receive GPS... Similar concerns prevented usage of the radio beacons that feed consumer grade automatic clocks. And you probably experienced once in a while that your navigation system was off by far... you would need to harden the signal seriously. It's amazing how complicated it gets when you want to make it reliable enough to hook up to the mainframe. PS Found an imitation railroad clock using the radio beacon that deliberately is slow so you can see it adjust at the full minute :-)
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Could be! I retired in 2004 and had joined IBM as an electronics technician in 1966. I still knew how to use them when I first became a programmer and fell in love with VM. Les Mike Walter wrote: How 'bout this then: there's nobody left at IBM who knows how to use a soldering iron (or an oscilliscope)? ;-)~ Mike Walter Sent from the wee keyboard of a Blackberry. From: Scott Rohling [mailto:scott.rohl...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 04:45 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time I tried not to - but this made me laugh very loud... Scott Rohling On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Mark Post mp...@novell.commailto:mp...@novell.com wrote: On 8/2/2011 at 02:54 PM, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.netmailto:dbo...@sinenomine.net wrote: How come Z hardware doesn't come with one of these? 8-) Because it costs less than $100? Mark Post
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 08:36:21 +0200, Rob van der Heij rvdh...@gmail.com w rote: On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:54 PM, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.net wrot e: How come Z hardware doesn't come with one of these? 8-) Because the machines are mostly installed in places where you don't have sufficiently open sky to receive GPS... Similar concerns prevented usage of the radio beacons that feed consumer grade automatic clocks. And you probably experienced once in a while that your navigation system was off by far... you would need to harden the signal seriously. It's amazing how complicated it gets when you want to make it reliable enough to hook up to the mainframe. I actually used a 25-foot extension of CAT-3 cable to the 18-foot factory installed cable when I made mine because I was anticipating the need to potentially mount it outdoors. Turned out that was needless. It receive s quite well in my conventional wood frame house without a view of the sky while sitting atop my desk. More cable would be feasible. (Others have u sed a skylight and put the puck in the skylight.) It only needs five volts th us the beauty and simplicity of using USB for power only. If the cable was s o long that voltage drop off happened, then I'm sure that could be easily overcome. Sure, some mainframe systems are located in, umm, certain dee p underground facilities in the western USA. I think that mostly installed in places that cannot receive GPS is too harsh. I visited TONS of customer shops with windows or top floor machine rooms in my career. The bunker installs are not the only world of installed mainframes. ;-) Because the GPS in this usage is a stationary receiver (I do not drive my desk around the house like Conan O'brien does with his on his tv show), t he navigation fix is constant unless experiencing an earthquake. The navigation fix provided by the satellites allow the time to be determined and delivered, and *that* further allow the GPS to deliver the pulse-per-second signal because it knows when the second boundary crosses . GPSD gets the signal through the serial cable and notifies NTPD via a sha red memory segment. It doesn't get any faster than that for me. Microseconds precision. If nothing else, my desktop equipped with this can be a stratum one NTP t ime source for all of the other systems on my LAN with the shortest possible network delay. I could even open it up to the pool.ntp.org pool of serve rs if I cared to do that. Others who have built these have actually done tha t. -- Gary Eheman Fundamental Software, Inc.
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
(geek mode on) Because I wanted the most accurate clock yet least expensive clock I coul d get, I built my own GPS clock and use the pulse-per-second (PPS) signal w ith GPSD to build my own NPTD stratum zero time source that gives my system super accurate time. The basic plan came from this website: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm I ordered up a Garmin 18x LVC GPS receiver for $50, got out my soldering iron, a DB9F connector, an old USB cable that I cut and soldered in for power, and voila. No network delay to my time source. (The delay and offset columns are in milliseconds, by the way.) When a FLEX-ES instance is first started on my desktop, by gosh, the clock is accurate and remains s o through use of the special sauce. :-) The GPS hocky puck sits on my desk in my home office and has no trouble hitting six or seven satellites concurrently for its fix. eheman@fsiatl1:~ /usr/sbin/ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset j itter = = = === LOCAL(0).LOCL. 10 l 23 64 3770.0000.000 0.001 *SHM(1) .PPS.0 l3 16 3770.0000.001 0.003 +navobs1.gatech. .GPS.1 u 49 64 377 22.7620.132 0.551 -ns4.usg.edu 65.212.71.1022 u 19 64 377 43.041 -9.049 0.157 -time-a.nist.gov .ACTS. 1 u 10 64 373 44.189 -1.085 2 4.028 +ntp1.twc.weathe .CDMA. 1 u 42 64 377 24.0720.108 0.184 eheman@fsiatl1:~ (geek mode off) You can pay a lot more for accurate time sources. I thought I did pretty well for less than $100. -- Gary Eheman Fundamental Software, Inc.
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Is the SE clock update you describe performed on z9's? We did a POR a couple weeks ago and the clock was off by about 27 minutes afterwards. I t didn't get caught for a while. The z/OS images now have their TOD prompt re-enabled and the POR instructions now include a step to check the SE clock for accuracy. I assumed it was off due to the drift in the SE clocks since the last POR several years ago. Brian Nielsen On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 14:25:55 -0400, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote: To reset the z/VM clock to match the CEC time, deactivate the LPAR and reactivate it. At that time the LPAR epoch [delta from CEC TOD] will be reset to zero, assuming it hasn't been set to a non-zero value in the LP AR image profile. The System z TOD clock is the best clock in the CEC; a precision timepie ce that even detects and adjusts for its own drift (up to a point). If you have STP or ETR, then the TOD clock is also accurate. In that respect, Sir Rob's point about using your wristwatch as a time reference is on point. The SE historically syncs its standard PC battery operated clock (BOC) t o the CEC TOD every 24 hours. The BOC instantly moves forward or backward . Why bother? Because at POR, the only time reference is the SE BOC -- th e CEC TOD will be set to that value. Once accurately set, the time on the CEC is better since it has comparatively little drift. Starting the z196 GA2 upgrade and the z114: o The SE BOC will sync to the CEC TOD once an hour instead of once a day , improving CEC TOD accuracy after POR. o The SE BOC will be steered the match the CEC TOD instead of making lar ge jumps, avoiding a Paradox that could destroy the universe. o OK, so there's no Paradox, but there are NTP-using firmware components in a zBX environment that benefit from the steering You still need STP to have *accurate* time. Alan Altmark
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On Tuesday, 08/02/2011 at 01:32 EDT, Brian Nielsen bniel...@sco.idaho.gov wrote: Is the SE clock update you describe performed on z9's? We did a POR a couple weeks ago and the clock was off by about 27 minutes afterwards. It didn't get caught for a while. The z/OS images now have their TOD prompt re-enabled and the POR instructions now include a step to check the SE clock for accuracy. I assumed it was off due to the drift in the SE clocks since the last POR several years ago. The 24-hour sync has been in place for over 10 years (can't remember when it started). I recommend that you open a PMH so that Product Engineering can advise you. Feedback here on the result would be good. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant IBM System Lab Services and Training ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Now *that* is cool. Because I wanted the most accurate clock yet least expensive clock I coul d get, I built my own GPS clock and use the pulse-per-second (PPS) signal w ith GPSD to build my own NPTD stratum zero time source that gives my system super accurate time. How come Z hardware doesn't come with one of these? 8-)
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On 8/2/2011 at 02:54 PM, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.net wrote: How come Z hardware doesn't come with one of these? 8-) Because it costs less than $100? Mark Post
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
I tried not to - but this made me laugh very loud... Scott Rohling On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Mark Post mp...@novell.com wrote: On 8/2/2011 at 02:54 PM, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.net wrote: How come Z hardware doesn't come with one of these? 8-) Because it costs less than $100? Mark Post
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
How 'bout this then: there's nobody left at IBM who knows how to use a soldering iron (or an oscilliscope)? ;-)~ Mike Walter Sent from the wee keyboard of a Blackberry. From: Scott Rohling [mailto:scott.rohl...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 04:45 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time I tried not to - but this made me laugh very loud... Scott Rohling On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Mark Post mp...@novell.commailto:mp...@novell.com wrote: On 8/2/2011 at 02:54 PM, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.netmailto:dbo...@sinenomine.net wrote: How come Z hardware doesn't come with one of these? 8-) Because it costs less than $100? Mark Post
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On Friday, 07/29/2011 at 08:36 EDT, Rich Greenberg ric...@panix.com wrote: On: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 08:00:12PM -0400,Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) Wrote: } Do You mean at the IPL prompt? If so no I don't think we did. Well, thats why they are off. The 2 CPUs clocks are independant of each other. Re-IPL set the clock when prompted. To reset the z/VM clock to match the CEC time, deactivate the LPAR and reactivate it. At that time the LPAR epoch [delta from CEC TOD] will be reset to zero, assuming it hasn't been set to a non-zero value in the LPAR image profile. The System z TOD clock is the best clock in the CEC; a precision timepiece that even detects and adjusts for its own drift (up to a point). If you have STP or ETR, then the TOD clock is also accurate. In that respect, Sir Rob's point about using your wristwatch as a time reference is on point. The SE historically syncs its standard PC battery operated clock (BOC) to the CEC TOD every 24 hours. The BOC instantly moves forward or backward. Why bother? Because at POR, the only time reference is the SE BOC -- the CEC TOD will be set to that value. Once accurately set, the time on the CEC is better since it has comparatively little drift. Starting the z196 GA2 upgrade and the z114: o The SE BOC will sync to the CEC TOD once an hour instead of once a day, improving CEC TOD accuracy after POR. o The SE BOC will be steered the match the CEC TOD instead of making large jumps, avoiding a Paradox that could destroy the universe. o OK, so there's no Paradox, but there are NTP-using firmware components in a zBX environment that benefit from the steering You still need STP to have *accurate* time. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant IBM System Lab Services and Training ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Starting the z196 GA2 upgrade and the z114: o The SE BOC will sync to the CEC TOD once an hour instead of once a day, improving CEC TOD accuracy after POR. o The SE BOC will be steered the match the CEC TOD instead of making large jumps, avoiding a Paradox that could destroy the universe. o OK, so there's no Paradox, but there are NTP-using firmware components in a zBX environment that benefit from the steering You still need STP to have *accurate* time. Sounds like it would be worth teaching NTP to treat the CEC TOD clock as a stratum 2 time source.
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On Monday, 08/01/2011 at 02:30 EDT, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.net wrote: Sounds like it would be worth teaching NTP to treat the CEC TOD clock as a stratum 2 time source. For zBX purposes, the need for common time is to get logs properly sequenced. It doesn't have to be ultra-accurate, just close enough. By resyncing the BOC every hour, that becomes doable. If you want your apps to all have a common time reference, then run STP on the z side and an NTP client on each non-z OS image. Will there be alternatives to that in the future? Dunno. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant IBM System Lab Services and Training ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote: o The SE BOC will be steered the match the CEC TOD instead of making large jumps, avoiding a Paradox that could destroy the universe. I would not be suprised to find the steering to be more conceptually speaking. The common approach with consumer grade battery clocks is that the regular synch compares the two and records the apparent drift of the battery clock. Whenever you need to use the battery clock (at POR) you have the time of last synch, the current time according to the battery clock and the recorded drift. Those 3 let you make a pretty good guess about the current true time. Time will tell ;-)
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Thanks for the explanation Alan it is much appreciated! Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191 -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:26 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time On Friday, 07/29/2011 at 08:36 EDT, Rich Greenberg ric...@panix.com wrote: On: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 08:00:12PM -0400,Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) Wrote: } Do You mean at the IPL prompt? If so no I don't think we did. Well, thats why they are off. The 2 CPUs clocks are independant of each other. Re-IPL set the clock when prompted. To reset the z/VM clock to match the CEC time, deactivate the LPAR and reactivate it. At that time the LPAR epoch [delta from CEC TOD] will be reset to zero, assuming it hasn't been set to a non-zero value in the LPAR image profile. The System z TOD clock is the best clock in the CEC; a precision timepiece that even detects and adjusts for its own drift (up to a point). If you have STP or ETR, then the TOD clock is also accurate. In that respect, Sir Rob's point about using your wristwatch as a time reference is on point. The SE historically syncs its standard PC battery operated clock (BOC) to the CEC TOD every 24 hours. The BOC instantly moves forward or backward. Why bother? Because at POR, the only time reference is the SE BOC -- the CEC TOD will be set to that value. Once accurately set, the time on the CEC is better since it has comparatively little drift. Starting the z196 GA2 upgrade and the z114: o The SE BOC will sync to the CEC TOD once an hour instead of once a day, improving CEC TOD accuracy after POR. o The SE BOC will be steered the match the CEC TOD instead of making large jumps, avoiding a Paradox that could destroy the universe. o OK, so there's no Paradox, but there are NTP-using firmware components in a zBX environment that benefit from the steering You still need STP to have *accurate* time. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant IBM System Lab Services and Training ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On Monday, 08/01/2011 at 05:06 EDT, Rob van der Heij rvdh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com wrote: o The SE BOC will be steered the match the CEC TOD instead of making large jumps, avoiding a Paradox that could destroy the universe. I would not be suprised to find the steering to be more conceptually speaking. The common approach with consumer grade battery clocks is that the regular synch compares the two and records the apparent drift of the battery clock. Whenever you need to use the battery clock (at POR) you have the time of last synch, the current time according to the battery clock and the recorded drift. Those 3 let you make a pretty good guess about the current true time. Time will tell ;-) The engineers are using the word steer. Personally, I think graviton emitters are used to slow or speed up time, but you might be right.. :-) In any case, prior to this change, the SE clock [you can see it on the screen] would change without regard for the size or direction of the jump. Now, time moves only forward and will speed up or slow down in small increments in order to reach the target time. Alan Altmark Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant IBM System Lab Services and Training ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott
Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Hi We are getting ready to migrate to a z196 from our z10. We brought a z/VM 5.4 system up on the z196 for the first time today. We noticed that the clock on the VM system was off by 4 hours and 4 minutes (showed as 7AM when it was 11:04). We did not make any changes to the TIMEZONE settings. Thanks Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Scott, Do You mean at the IPL prompt? If so no I don't think we did. Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Rohling Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 7:55 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time Did you set the clock when you IPL'd z/VM? Scott Rohling On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) terry.mar...@cms.hhs.govmailto:terry.mar...@cms.hhs.gov wrote: Hi We are getting ready to migrate to a z196 from our z10. We brought a z/VM 5.4 system up on the z196 for the first time today. We noticed that the clock on the VM system was off by 4 hours and 4 minutes (showed as 7AM when it was 11:04). We did not make any changes to the TIMEZONE settings. Thanks Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191tel:443%20632-4191
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Is the z196 connected to an external time source (NTP/STP)? If yes, is the STP setup done properly. If no, is the hardware clock off? Is the lpar profile created properly on the z196. I remember one time when I had the lpar profile setup wrong and the time was off when I IPLed VM. Now I can't remember what I had done wrong. Paul Feller AIT Mainframe Technical Support From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:09 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time Hi We are getting ready to migrate to a z196 from our z10. We brought a z/VM 5.4 system up on the z196 for the first time today. We noticed that the clock on the VM system was off by 4 hours and 4 minutes (showed as 7AM when it was 11:04). We did not make any changes to the TIMEZONE settings. Thanks Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
On: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 08:00:12PM -0400,Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) Wrote: } Do You mean at the IPL prompt? If so no I don't think we did. Well, thats why they are off. The 2 CPUs clocks are independant of each other. Re-IPL set the clock when prompted. -- Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself my dogs only.VM'er since CP-67 Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero Casey (At the bridge)Owner:Chinook-L Canines: Red Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
That would make sense, I will do that next IPL. thanks. BTW, we are using STP so we will also verify that it is set up correctly because we just did some work on that. Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191 -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Rich Greenberg Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 8:35 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time On: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 08:00:12PM -0400,Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) Wrote: } Do You mean at the IPL prompt? If so no I don't think we did. Well, thats why they are off. The 2 CPUs clocks are independant of each other. Re-IPL set the clock when prompted. -- Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself my dogs only.VM'er since CP-67 Canines: Val, Red, Shasta, Zero Casey (At the bridge)Owner:Chinook-L Canines: Red Cinnar (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time
Thanks Doug! Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Doug Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 11:50 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Time off running z/VM 5.4 1101 on z196 for first time Terry, Have a simple rexx we run at startup/ipl to fix up the vm clock. Also, a program we used for Y2K testing to set the clock to whatever you want then ipl the guest. Contact me off list if you would be interested. Best Regards, Doug :) Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2011, at 19:09, Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) terry.mar...@cms.hhs.govmailto:terry.mar...@cms.hhs.gov wrote: Hi We are getting ready to migrate to a z196 from our z10. We brought a z/VM 5.4 system up on the z196 for the first time today. We noticed that the clock on the VM system was off by 4 hours and 4 minutes (showed as 7AM when it was 11:04). We did not make any changes to the TIMEZONE settings. Thanks Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191
