Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Alan Altmark]

On Thursday, 03/15/2007 at 08:38 AST, Mark Pace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Any chance this will be retro-fitted to 5.2?

No.  Anyone with z/VM 5.2 and a S&S contract can upgrade to 5.3 for free. 

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Alan Altmark]

On Thursday, 03/15/2007 at 07:45 GMT, Crispin Hugo 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I have been following all this with great interest and still have 
questions. 
> 
> If one has a z9 that is zIIP and zAAp capable, then zVM5.3 can emulate 
these 
> processors. If z9 actually has these processors, can z/OS under z/VM 5.3 

> actually use them ?

Yes, that's the "virtualization".  If you only have standard CPUs in the 
z/VM LPAR, we call it "simulation".  You will be able to define a virtual 
CPU as a zIIP or a zAAP.

I should point out that, as with z/OS, if you add a zIIP or a zAAP to a 
z/VM LPAR, you do not owe IBM any additional z/VM license charges.

> Any idea what the overhead is likely to be.

No more than for any other virtual CPU, but I don't think we can make any 
definitive statements at this point as z/VM 5.3 is still under 
development, and performance analysis is on-going.

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Mark Pace]

Any chance this will be retro-fitted to 5.2?

On 3/15/07, Les Geer (607-429-3580) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Yes z/OS can use real zIIP and zAAP processors if defined to the
z/VM 5.3 LPAR.  Initial measurements have shown very little overhead.




--
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Les Geer (607-429-3580)]

> I have been following all this with great interest and still have
>questions.
>
>If one has a z9 that is zIIP and zAAp capable, then zVM5.3 can emulate these
>processors. If z9 actually has these processors, can z/OS under z/VM 5.3
>actually use them ?. Any idea what the overhead is likely to be.

Yes z/OS can use real zIIP and zAAP processors if defined to the
z/VM 5.3 LPAR.  Initial measurements have shown very little overhead.

Best Regards,
Les Geer
IBM z/VM and Linux Development

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Crispin Hugo]

 I have been following all this with great interest and still have
questions.

If one has a z9 that is zIIP and zAAp capable, then zVM5.3 can emulate these
processors. If z9 actually has these processors, can z/OS under z/VM 5.3
actually use them ?. Any idea what the overhead is likely to be.

 
Crispin Hugo 

Systems Programmer, Macro 4





This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email 
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Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 03/14/2007 at 12:18 MST, Marian Gasparovic 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Using zAAP implies running z/OS. Which implies CPs,
> not IFLs.
> And I believe, z/VM 5.3 will provide zIIP and zAAP to
> guest only on machine, which is capable of having
> them. So zAAP on z990+ and zIIP on z9 (EC and BC).
> They don't need to be there, they can be emulated, but
> you will not be able to emulate zIIP on z990. If I am
> worng, somebody from Endicott please correct me.

You are correct on all points, Marian.

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Marian Gasparovic]

Using zAAP implies running z/OS. Which implies CPs,
not IFLs.
And I believe, z/VM 5.3 will provide zIIP and zAAP to
guest only on machine, which is capable of having
them. So zAAP on z990+ and zIIP on z9 (EC and BC).
They don't need to be there, they can be emulated, but
you will not be able to emulate zIIP on z990. If I am
worng, somebody from Endicott please correct me.

Marian

--- Rob van der Heij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 3/13/07, Les Geer (607-429-3580)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > z/VM 5.3 will provide simulation and
> virtualization support of zIIP and
> > zAAP engines for guest exploitation.  z/VM 5.3
> does not itself exploit
> > these engines.
> 
> And the guest who can use them will only run on real
> engines rather
> than IFL, so z/VM 5.3 would offer you a way to
> convert expensive
> cycles into cheap ones :-)   Not to pass a real zAAP
> straight to
> guests who know what to do with it without paying
> z/VM license for it.
> So that's something only for testing the function on
> z/OS ?
> 
> Rob
> 



 

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Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Alan Altmark]

On Tuesday, 03/13/2007 at 10:41 CET, Rob van der Heij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > z/VM 5.3 will provide simulation and virtualization support of zIIP 
and
> > zAAP engines for guest exploitation.  z/VM 5.3 does not itself exploit
> > these engines.
> 
> And the guest who can use them will only run on real engines rather
> than IFL, so z/VM 5.3 would offer you a way to convert expensive
> cycles into cheap ones :-)   Not to pass a real zAAP straight to
> guests who know what to do with it without paying z/VM license for it.
> So that's something only for testing the function on z/OS ?

The simulation support is useful to determine what percentage of a z/OS 
workload would be placed on a zIIP or zAAP.  Once you find that you are 
running out of headroom, you may decide that a sufficiently large 
percentage of the z/OS cycles are running on zIIPs or zAAPs that you may 
decide the next CPU to add is a real zIPP/zAAP (or share the one we had.)

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Rob van der Heij]

On 3/13/07, Les Geer (607-429-3580) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


z/VM 5.3 will provide simulation and virtualization support of zIIP and
zAAP engines for guest exploitation.  z/VM 5.3 does not itself exploit
these engines.


And the guest who can use them will only run on real engines rather
than IFL, so z/VM 5.3 would offer you a way to convert expensive
cycles into cheap ones :-)   Not to pass a real zAAP straight to
guests who know what to do with it without paying z/VM license for it.
So that's something only for testing the function on z/OS ?

Rob

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Les Geer (607-429-3580)]

>You might have to wait until z/VM 5.3.  It has support to recognize a
>zAAP and allow it's use by virtual machines.
>
>It looks like I was wrong.  I just searched the z9 guide again and found a
>note.
>Note: zAAPs are not supported for a z/OS guest under z/VM.
>
>Is that being fixed in z/VM 5.3 or is this always going to be the case?

z/VM 5.3 will provide simulation and virtualization support of zIIP and
zAAP engines for guest exploitation.  z/VM 5.3 does not itself exploit
these engines.

Best Regards,
Les Geer
IBM z/VM and Linux Development

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[David Boyes]

> How do I start the zAAP?

You don't. z/OS does. z/OS is the only thing that can manipulate a zAAP.

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Kurt Acker]

I think the r530 announcement material:
http://www.vm.ibm.com/zvm530/

will help answer that question... 

Kurt Acker 




Mark Pace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
03/13/2007 02:04 PM
Please respond to
The IBM z/VM Operating System 


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Subject
Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP






On 3/13/07, Rich Smrcina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You might have to wait until z/VM 5.3.  It has support to recognize a
zAAP and allow it's use by virtual machines.

It looks like I was wrong.  I just searched the z9 guide again and found a 
note. 
Note: zAAPs are not supported for a z/OS guest under z/VM.

Is that being fixed in z/VM 5.3 or is this always going to be the case?

-- 
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems 

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Mark Pace]

On 3/13/07, Rich Smrcina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


You may want to verify with the announcement, but I believe that this is
being resolved with 5.3.



Thanks for the reminder, Rich.


From Software Announcement 207-019

Virtualization support — z/VM can create virtual specialty processors for
virtual machines by dispatching the virtual processors on corresponding
specialty processors of the same type in the real configuration.
--
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Rich Smrcina]

You may want to verify with the announcement, but I believe that this is 
being resolved with 5.3.


Mark Pace wrote:
On 3/13/07, *Rich Smrcina* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


You might have to wait until z/VM 5.3.  It has support to recognize a
zAAP and allow it's use by virtual machines.


It looks like I was wrong.  I just searched the z9 guide again and found 
a note.

Note: zAAPs are not supported for a z/OS guest under z/VM.

Is that being fixed in z/VM 5.3 or is this always going to be the case?

--
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems


--
Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: 414-491-6001
Ans Service:  360-715-2467
rich.smrcina at vmassist.com

Catch the WAVV!  http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Mark Pace]

On 3/13/07, Rich Smrcina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


You might have to wait until z/VM 5.3.  It has support to recognize a
zAAP and allow it's use by virtual machines.



It looks like I was wrong.  I just searched the z9 guide again and found a
note.
Note: zAAPs are not supported for a z/OS guest under z/VM.

Is that being fixed in z/VM 5.3 or is this always going to be the case?

--
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Rich Smrcina]

You might have to wait until z/VM 5.3.  It has support to recognize a 
zAAP and allow it's use by virtual machines.


Mark Pace wrote:
On 3/13/07, *RPN01* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
wrote:


I haven't done it, but the zAPP processor would only be usable by
the zOS LPAR; zVM has no use for zAAPs.

True, z/VM has no use for a zAAP.  But I should be able to dedicate the 
zAAP to a z/OS guest running under z/VM.


--
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems


--
Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: 414-491-6001
Ans Service:  360-715-2467
rich.smrcina at vmassist.com

Catch the WAVV!  http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Mark Pace]

On 3/13/07, RPN01 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 I haven't done it, but the zAPP processor would only be usable by the zOS
LPAR; zVM has no use for zAAPs.

True, z/VM has no use for a zAAP.  But I should be able to dedicate the

zAAP to a z/OS guest running under z/VM.

--
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems

Re: z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[RPN01]

I haven¹t done it, but the zAPP processor would only be usable by the zOS
LPAR; zVM has no use for zAAPs.


-- 
   .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation
   /V\RO-OC-1-13200 First Street SW
  /( )\   507-284-0844  Rochester, MN 55905
  ^^-^^   - 
"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but
 in practice, theory and practice are different."




On 3/13/07 12:13 PM, "Mark Pace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have this new z9.  In this z9 I have a regular CP, a IFL and a zAAP.  I had
> no problem defining an LPAR with the IFL and running z/VM and Linux.  I
> created and LPAR with a regular CP running z/OS 1.7.   Now I have defined an
> LPAR with a regular CP, sharing the one CP, and defined the zAAP.
> 
> In that LPAR z/VM does not show the zAAP.  I assume that I should be able to
> see with Q PROCESSOR.
> q processor  
> PROCESSOR 00 MASTER
> Ready; T=0.01/0.01 13:12:11
> 
> When I look on the HMC I see that all the processors are defined to the CPC
> and that they are Active.  But when I look at the LPAR I see the processors,
> but the zAAP is Stopped.   I can not figure out how to "start" the zAAP.  The
> Activate Icon doesn't do it, and the Start Icon in the CP configuration area
> doesn't do it. 
> 
> How do I start the zAAP?

z/VM - z9 and zAAP

[Mark Pace]

I have this new z9.  In this z9 I have a regular CP, a IFL and a zAAP.  I
had no problem defining an LPAR with the IFL and running z/VM and Linux.  I
created and LPAR with a regular CP running z/OS 1.7.   Now I have defined an
LPAR with a regular CP, sharing the one CP, and defined the zAAP.

In that LPAR z/VM does not show the zAAP.  I assume that I should be able to
see with Q PROCESSOR.
q processor
PROCESSOR 00 MASTER
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 13:12:11

When I look on the HMC I see that all the processors are defined to the CPC
and that they are Active.  But when I look at the LPAR I see the processors,
but the zAAP is Stopped.   I can not figure out how to "start" the zAAP.
The Activate Icon doesn't do it, and the Start Icon in the CP configuration
area doesn't do it.

How do I start the zAAP?

--
Mark Pace
Mainline Information Systems