Re: [IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
> I agree Eve! In fact, I dont think horses should be crossed at > all! > With one exception--- mules. But I feel any time you cross a > gaited > breed with non gaited you take an almost guaranteed risk of > producing > the worst of both, Well if humans never crossed any horses we certainley would never have many of the good ole Southern gaited breeds that are wonderful. Most of the horses in the world would not exist. What about hybrid vigor? I am not advocating breeding willy nilly, however, so many of the horses in the world started off as a cross of this and that. Talk to many dressage people, they love their crosses. I know of an Azteca horse here on island, WOW! What an amazing animal, those hispanics really knew what they were doing when they created that breed. Eve started this post again with a statement I had said, not Karen, so I will gladly take the heat for it. Again that breeding was not on purpose. My Icelandic mare was on a 2000 acre ranch and was many pastures away from the arabian stallion who was behind quite a fence...she got herself bred without anyone knowing. I purchased her that way and she had been vet checked by a vet several months earlier. Skye Fire Island Eco-Treks-808-443-6085 Fire Island Professional Farrier Service-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Bucking Horses
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why do horses buck? ...> [] Are just feeling well and happy > > The bucks a horse makes because he is feeling good > are not normally hard, > vicious bucks, although they should not be allowed > to get out of hand.<< This was the kind of buck I got from Whisper yesterday, and I have to say, I LOVED IT!! After not riding for 3 weeks due to crappy weather, but I did do a lot of clicker training, and TTouches with her in that time. My formerly miserable horse actually RACED Andi to reach me first in the enclosure the other day. When she gave those exhuberant, easy bucks on the trail, I knew they were joyous bucks, and my heartrate knew, too, because I just giggled instead of getting upset by it. I did play it safe, however, and did not do anymore than a walk after that. After all, I am old!! Susan in NV http://desertduty.blogspot.com/ Riding for Breast Cancer Awareness Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] What bit, what bit? What is going on....????
> trail that leads down to a waterhole with lots of rocks that we > cross sometimes. Everytime we get near it, he decides he is going > down and through and home. I expected it Saturday and he faked me > out and nearly passed the spot and turned a perfect "L" to he left > with his next and flipped is back end around to the right like a > cutting horse and down in to the water he went. Here's a list of things to check out to try to get to the root of the problem: http://iceryder.net/problem.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Saddles & Related muscle soreness
>From the treeless saddle list: I'm sorry folks if this turns into another of my long postings but I wanted to carry on the recent discussion about saddle related soreness. As an Equine massage therapist, I see much evidence of this. It's really refreshing to read from a saddle fitter (Barb) who truly understands the anatomy of the horse and doesn't see the "atrophied shelf" as a sign of a super fit horse! This happens so much here as so many saddle fitters do not understand the way the horse moves and how the muscles can be affected if there is restriction. In my own experience, soreness in the muscles can be from direct pressure but more so because they are compromised and unable to move as they were meant. Direct pressure will affect blood flow and if the muscles fibres are not fed effectivly, then they will deteriorate but the inability to use the muscles as necessary add to this wasting. For example, a horse that has what we call a "giraffe neck", i.e. carries his head high usually does this to either avoid an extreme bit and/or heavy hands or they are hollowing away from the pressure their saddle is exerting. The knock on effect of this leaves the longissimus and the sacro muscles under constant tension and if you tilt your own head back you will understand this feeling. Now imagine this under the weight of a rider and a restrictive saddle. Over time, the horse loses topline and if the saddle fit is really bad, the shape of the saddle panels will start to show in the back musculature and in the extreme will give a "shelf" as Barb described. The brachio muscle beneath the neck will get stronger whilst the splenius and both the cervical (in front of wither) and thoracic trapezius (behind the wither where hollows are seen) will weaken and work under tension. This contunes through the back and the horse starts to move much less efficiently with a choppy gait up front and difficulty to step through from behind. With all this, the horse has "narrowed" in his back and the current saddle is now too wide, so a narrower tree is fitted and the cycle continues. However, once the rider becomes enlightened and starts to look at saddling alternatives, it is when the ongoing problems are truly realised. Once you swap to a saddle such as a treeless that allows the horse to move correctly without restriction, time will be needed for the horses musculature to adjust and this many mean further soreness especially if too much is done too soon. For many, the improvement in their horses way of going can be almost immediate and it easy for the owner to overdo it because their horse is going so well. But if you imagine muscles that have been working under tension, they have been working in the shortened, contracted state. Once that pressure and tension have been removed, they are effectivly stretching whilst working for the first time. The muscles nearest the joints will be the worst effected and can be why loin soreness can continue because this is the junction point of where forward movement from behind has met restriction from the front. Because of this, we always recommend our own customers really take their time when introducing a new saddle, especially if going from treed to treeless and if the horse is really sore, time off before a new saddle is even better. Little and often is best, starting with a few minutes a day. Addressing your own riding ability is also a must - as many of you may have already found, treeless saddles show up your faults very quickly. Horses were not designed to carry weight and the horses back is afterall like a suspension bridge connecting the front and back legs so just adding the weight of the rider somewhere in between has the potential to give the horse a simple back ache without the complications of saddle fit. Helen Freeform UK
[IceHorses] Tongue Over The Bit / Nosebands
Dr. Deb on the tongue over the bit, and nosebands: ..in general there is only one reason that horses try persistently to get their tongue over the bit -- and that is, that they are still at the stage where they regard the bit as a foreign object in their mouth, and their response to this is to try to spit it out. When they discover that they can't spit it out, they then, because they still don't emotionally or conceptually accept having a bit in their mouth, try to withdraw or retract the tongue so as, as far as possible, to avoid touching it with their tongue. When they retract their tongue, it seems to most riders that what the horse is trying to do is get the tongue over the bit. Sometimes, the effort that the horse makes to retract the tongue is sufficient that the tongue actually does wind up over the bit; but then you will have noticed that they continue to make wierd, floppy and twisty kinds of movements with their tongue, because their real objective is still to try not to touch the bit, and having the bit up against the frenulum under the tongue is like going from the frying pan into the fire. In effect, having succeeded in getting their tongue over the bit, they don't go quiet -- which would indicate that this was their objective. Instead, it seems that just as soon as they get their tongue over the bit, they are trying to get it back under it again. In other words, they only accidentally got their tongue over the bit. If the horse does not happen to get its tongue over the bit, it will continue to retract it, and this effort causes the mass of the tongue (the tongue is the largest muscle from the middle of the neck forward) to wad up in the pharynx, which is the chamber at the back of the animal's mouth. In order to breathe, all the air the horse takes in must cross the pharynx in order to get to the lungs. If half of the tongue is stuffed into the pharynx, it blocks the airway, causing the animal various levels of distress depending upon how much retraction. The "distress" the animal exhibits will include reluctance to move, reluctance to perform at full level, inability to concentrate or pay attention (because they are worried about being able to breathe), various types of head-tossing, trying to grab the bit or yank down on the reins. I'm happy that you seem to have a gut feeling that using a tight noseband is a bad idea. In fact, Gina, it is a stupid, cruel, and utterly ignorant idea which is inflicted on horses by people who know nothing at all about horsemanship and who have no feeling and no care for the feeling in your horse or any horse. You understand from my above discussion that tying the horse's mouth shut can do absolutely nothing but intensify for the animal the feeling that he is choking or being choked by the rider. You, and all those false and ambitious competitors who call themselves "coaches" -- those who may have suggested to you that the "solution" is to use a tight noseband -- need to know that, once a horse's incisor teeth are touching, no amount of tightening of the noseband can close the mouth any farther. To close the mouth farther, you would have to fracture the jaws. All the tight noseband does is make it impossible for the horse to shift the position of his jaws and tongue, and thus to totally deprive him of the ability to give himself any relief from whatever wrong position the tongue may be in. The only RIGHT way to address this problem is to teach the horse that he can be OK with a bit -- a foreign object -- in his mouth. Tying the bit up helps the horse to accept the bit (emotionally) and to understand (intellectually or conceptually) that it is a tool of communication and not a means intended to hurt him. Tying it up does this by raising the bit in the mouth -- raising "up" toward the horse's rostrum, not "up" toward his eyes -- so that it weighs less heavily upon the tongue, and so that it is easier for the horse to feel comfortable extending his tongue out forward underneath the bit. Riding him with the bit tied up to his foretop, or tied up around the top of his nose/rostrum, you'll ride him this way for a few days and then very gradually lengthen the strings until they can be removed. You will also completely remove the noseband -- any noseband, of any kind., and continually invite the horse to open his mouth and to make chewing motions with his jaws while wearing the bit. You do this by "twirling the head", and by following an ironclad rule that EVERY TIME the horse complies with your SLIGHTEST request, you will reward him by dropping ALL pressure from the bit -- drop to the buckle or drop the reins on his neck. You take a few steps, apply pressure with the bit that is "aimed at" a particular one of his feet, and when that foot slows down or stops, you drop those reins. This is how you teach a horse to stop. You must also teach him to turn. To do this, you use an opening rein in order to make it obvious that he is to follow the feel to the side. You
[IceHorses] Bucking Horses
Why do horses buck? >From 100 Ways to Improve Your Horse's Behavior: Horses usually buck because they are: [] In pain, usually in the back but maybe elsewhere [] Afraid the rider is going to cause them pain or distress [] Not confirmed in going forwards reliably [] Over-fed and under-exercised [] Have too little liberty and turnout, particularly play in company [] Are just feeling well and happy The bucks a horse makes because he is feeling good are not normally hard, vicious bucks, although they should not be allowed to get out of hand. The remedies for bucking for the other reasons are obvious. >From Provet: Occasional bucking can be a transient problem in many young, inexperienced, frightened or excessively frisky horses and ponies. At this stage it is nothing to be too concerned about but it is important that training to take a saddle, and later a rider is done under the supervision of an experienced trainer. Lively horses and ponies need a strong handler who can discipline them and train them to react normally and to behave for the rider. Bucking becomes a serious problem in older horses which refuse to accept a saddle or rider and there are several reasons why this may occur: [] Poor training to accept a saddle (and other tack eg headgear) [] Poor training to accept a rider [] Behavioural problems - despite training the horse simply continues to refuse to accept human attempts to ride it [] The horse is experiencing discomfort through poorly fitting tack - eg saddle, bit, headgear. [] The horse has a medical problem making pressure on the back painful - this could be due to back problems, or problems in the limbs Poor training to accept a saddle (and other tack eg headgear) All horses *can* buck, but stock horses buck more than gaited horses which is due to the conformational differences that make it easier for stock horses (not as easy for gaited horses) to buck. Gaited horses might tend to run or bolt instead of buck.
[IceHorses] Gaited Horse Event, KY
Gaited Horse Event. Three Phase Event, April 19th and 20th at Kentucky Equestrian Center, Winchester, KY. For info.: www.threephaseevent.com Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
Yesterday I received an e-mail that I think was send to everyone in breeder's address book. Although she raises gaited horses, she was very unhappy with an Arab/gaited cross foal and was threatening to give him away or donate him to a place called Wildlife Images that takes dead livestock for animal feed.In his photo, he looked like a very pretty foal, not gaited but a potentially useful horse. ... I don't have a place for him, but he didn't choose to come into this world. I think anyone who's looking at breeding through rose-colored glasses should keep an image of such a foal in their mind...and believe me, I think there are a lot of purebred foals that are difficult to place, as well as grade horses. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
Even though I do own an Icelandic cross, I have owned very few unregistered horses. I like the predictability of purebreds - I'm sure someone will take exception to that, but it's mostly true. Yesterday I received an e-mail that I think was send to everyone in breeder's address book. Although she raises gaited horses, she was very unhappy with an Arab/gaited cross foal and was threatening to give him away or donate him to a place called Wildlife Images that takes dead livestock for animal feed.In his photo, he looked like a very pretty foal, not gaited but a potentially useful horse. I don't have a place for him, but he didn't choose to come into this world. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] OT - She talks!
>>> Yes - she didn't just pull that particular expression out of the ether. My gray only says one bad word...but she says it with the exact inflections of a petulant, hormonal 14-year-old. :) (Want to guess how old my daughter was when we got the bird?) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM
RE: [IceHorses] What bit
>>>. The reason I believe the Bob Marshall will be the right saddle is that it is treeless and is supposed to conform to his body and make him feel like he is being ridden bareback. Whatever I can do to make him and I both as comfortable as possible is my goal. You would think he would be sore, but there seems to be no pain on his back or sides. Judy, I apologize, but I think I may have missed a couple of posts. Didn't I see something about him bucking at the canter, and how you say one might assume he's sore...? I've had a few rehabs here with bucking/bolting problems. One turned out to have an old castration scar as well as an old soft-tissue injury near the withers. Another had ulcers. And we never knew exactly what the other mare's problem was, but she responded dramatically to acupuncture. Anyway, if your gut tells you that the horse is uncomfortable in some way, don't ignore it. At least keep it at the back of your mind. Ailments of these kinds can be difficult for even good vets, chiropractors and professionals to isolate sometimes. >>>The farrier and vet have both checked him out so there is no health issues thank God. I have done some clicker training but the people at the barn laugh until they see some of the tricks he can do. I have gotten him to stand at the mounting block and come when I call. I am going back to clicker training though. I have all the books. Again, if anyone has any other suggestions, I am taking them all. Have you tried some of the natural horsemanship exercises? I really like the Parelli Seven Games. I started dabbling in NH before Parelli was such a big name, so I sort of have my own blend of methods now, not "pure" Parelli, but for someone starting out, the Seven Games are wonderful - very simple and step-by-step, but powerful...and FUN. Or they should be fun - that's why they are called GAMES. :) The coolest thing is that you can work on your relationship with ground exercises - where it's much harder for you to get injured - while developing your relationship with your horse. It's the best of both, building a relationship while staying safe. The exercises and trust continues on into your riding time too. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Thanks, Judy
> skewed stories about 600 lb ponies carrying 300 lb men for hours at a time > over a frozen wasteland. > > Thanks, Judy. No problem. Does she need anything in particular? There's about 25 additional pages that I haven't connected yet to the index. It's very interesting as another young girl from Europe wrote to me last night: "I'm 16 years old and i just started learnig riding horses about a year ago. well in school i'm learning to ride them and all the basic's to their feeding, their body and basicly, how to make them feel good. for an example, our nosebands. they're not really tight at all. infact in school they tell us to have space for at LEAST two fingers between their nose and the noseband. wich does not make it very hard for the horse to breath." The problem is: their two fingers are different than our two fingers! I need to write back to her to explain that we are seeing things differently, and ask about the horses fighting the bit, does she see it? or has it become so common place that no one notices it and / or that it's accepted as a normal part of what Icelandics do. I think we need a video to show how to set a noseband without it being tight. Anyone up for doing that? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Re: What bit
>>> Thank you. I'll try to think of other ways to go. This spot is esentially in the middle of all the trails I know out there. Maybe it is time I learn a new trail or a back way. Because of the way that our trails are laid out in loops, we mix up our routes, sometimes leaving along one loop, and other times returning that way. I think it helps to mix it up a little - heck, even I notice things on the trails when traveling one direction that I miss when traveling another. But, as others have said, stay safe. I think it's John Lyons who always says, "Ride where you can, not where you can't." >>> I will try the treat every time he goes by it and does what he is supposed to. He does try to see what he can get away with. He is a naughty little boy and seems to enjoy trying to outsmart me. He was bucking every time I asked for a canter. Finally, after trying it twice in the arena last night, he stopped. Guess he realized it is futile. That's always the $64,000 question to me...is the horse just "trying me" a little, or is he really trying to tell me something...like he's worried, confused, in pain, scared, whatever. I DO think they will try us sometimes just to see what they can get away with, but overall, I think that reasoning is way over-played. Obviously we can't see your horse, but always AT LEAST keep it in the back of your mind that MAYBE he's really trying to tell you something, at least part of the time. The last thing I want my horses to do is shutdown and get to the point they just "shut up and put up." It's a real puzzle sometimes, but the more time you spend with your horse and the more comfortable you both become, the more you'll KNOW the difference. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM
Re: [IceHorses] OT - She talks!
> Congratulations! ...and beware what words you use... :) Yes - she didn't just pull that particular expression out of the ether. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Insulin resistance or diabetes
On Feb 12, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Susan Coombes wrote: Many people do not know they are well on their way to becoming diabetic and already have impaired lipid metabolism causing arterial damage. I found it really scary when people were getting heart attacks before they got the diabetes diagnosed. It makes me want to take really good care of myself(and horses, husband too). The fasting level for diagnosing diabetes has lowered over the years. We are talking really heavy burden on the health care system here. Let's not diagnose it too early we might have to spend money treating it! Thanks to the relative inexpensiveness of blood sugar monitors, it is possible for a person to monitor themselves. I invested in an Accucheck and a vial of strips and at least once a week I do my fasting blood sugar as soon as I get up to make sure my blood sugar is not creaping up (http://www.diabetes.org/pre-diabetes/pre-diabetes-symptoms.jsp). Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/JoyOfRiding/index.htm
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
It was probably just an oversight, but you mis-quoted the following: In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I can totally see why that cross is nicefor some they just can not make the leap to a short fuzzy little thingbut with that cross, and arabs are very popular, that cross worked very well. I didn't say that, and actually, I said that I think the whole idea of crossing an Icelandic with an Arab is rather bizarre. My e-mail address was probably at the beginning of a post where someone countered what I said. I am a purest when it come to the Icelandic horse, in my humble but very loud opinion; it is a shame to cross this wonderful horse. I love my Icelandic's better than any breed I've ever met, but I don't see that there's any need to be any more of an Icelandic-purist than with any other breed. I can make two statements that cover it all. First: if you don't rescue, don't breed. And second, breed responsibility - REALLY responsibly, breeding good horses to good horses, and horses who are well-matched conformation, so that the odds are stacked in your favor that the baby will be a healthy, sound baby with a choice of homes. MOST of the time, I think that means breeding horses within the same breed, but some registered horses shouldn't be bred, not all registered horses are compatible with others in their breed, and there may be a few times when it makes sense to breed outside your breed - whatever your breed may be. >>> They have everything a rider/ horse person could want, Strength, >>> agility, intellegence,sturdy, hardy, very willing partners, and if you >>> need to answer Mother natures call- no mounting block needed. I agree that they have everything that *I* want...but there are some (really strange!) people out there in the world with interests not like mine. Gaited horses are not "dressage prospects" - not beyond a very casual, backyard type definition. Icelandic's typically aren't suitable for jumping - not beyond a "fun" level. And, I haven't been convinced yet that Icelandic's are really "endurance prospects" - not in any serious sense of the word. If you want to do dressage, you should probably get a warmblood, or at least some three-gaited horse. If you want to do three-day eventing or hunters, you should probably consider a TB. If you are serious about endurance, you should probably first look at an Arab or Arab-cross...and so on. >>> Oh and if you like to go fast- I think I've made my point. A good percentage of Icelandic's don't like to go fast. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] OT - She talks!
We just heard her clearly say "Oh poop!". We're thrilled. Congratulations! ...and beware what words you use... :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
> I am a purest when it come to the Icelandic horse, in my humble but > very loud opinion; it is a shame to cross this wonderful horse. They > have everything a rider/ horse person could want, Strength, agility, > intellegence,sturdy, hardy, very willing partners, and if you need > to answer Mother natures call- no mounting block needed. Oh and if > you like to go fast- I think I've made my point. I agree Eve! In fact, I dont think horses should be crossed at all! With one exception--- mules. But I feel any time you cross a gaited breed with non gaited you take an almost guaranteed risk of producing the worst of both, a non-gaited horse that bottom line, is gonna be hard to place in a home. and in todays horse market, with so many starved and neglected horses out there its really wrong to deliberately breed a horse that may end up unwanted and unfed... so many people start out well intentioned, then the horse turns out to be not gaited, homely or whatever then they are on here "i am looking for a good home for sally, she is 12.2 and not gaited" and you just wonder what they were thinking jmo. but honestly i saw a magnificent registered smooth as honey well mannered walking horse mare go at auction a couple of months ago for $280 BUCKS! Janice-- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What bit
i honestly think bucking when transitioning to canter is either saddle pain or a very lazy horse who resents baing asked to move. How long have you had him? My Tivar acted real pi$$y for a while when I first got him, would put ears back and act grumpy and walk backward tail swishing when at the mounting block if his girth wasnt just right etc :) It took him a while to realize I was gonna be someone to treat him fair, as Lucy said once, a horse wants to know you will be FAIR above all. I liked that and find it to be true!! Now he takes care of me :) I think when a horse is kinda new they think "I am gonna let her know right NOW at the very get go that she aint gonna treat me bad!" then after a while they settle in and none of that behavior comes out again. Unless you let someone else ride them :) Janice-- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] OT - She talks!
> You were so right. We decided to put a baby monitor in with Greta, the > young African Grey. She talks up a storm when we are out of the room, like > a baby, nonsense sentences interspersed with real words. > > We just heard her clearly say "Oh poop!". We're thrilled. hahaha oh lord, now it begins. she wont ever shut up :) Mine says "and now for your local on the 8's" (weather channel) Janice-- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
[IceHorses] OT - She talks!
Karen, You were so right. We decided to put a baby monitor in with Greta, the young African Grey. She talks up a storm when we are out of the room, like a baby, nonsense sentences interspersed with real words. We just heard her clearly say "Oh poop!". We're thrilled. Nancy
[IceHorses] Re: What bit
> Every horse is so different, some things work on some but not on > others. But I feel like your horse is trying to see if he can get out > of the ride by acting up, in the same spot every time. Is there any > way to avoid this spot? Hi Janice, Thank you. I'll try to think of other ways to go. This spot is esentially in the middle of all the trails I know out there. Maybe it is time I learn a new trail or a back way. I'm not one to go off the beaten track if I've never been there and am nervious when I go somewhere new. I am very much like a horse so I think like one too *lol* I will try the treat every time he goes by it and does what he is supposed to. He does try to see what he can get away with. He is a naughty little boy and seems to enjoy trying to outsmart me. He was bucking every time I asked for a canter. Finally, after trying it twice in the arena last night, he stopped. Guess he realized it is futile. Keep the suggestions coming. I really do appreciate them. Judy
[IceHorses] Insulin resistance or diabetes
Insulin resistance is a precursor of type 2 diabetes (maturity onset diabetes) Type one diabetes (like young people get) is due to low levels of insulin due to damage probably viral. Insulin resistance results in high levels of insulin which can't do it's job properly. It is commom in other conditions such as cushings. It is likewise caused by steroid treatment. The really bad thing about insulin resistance is that it causes bad effects on lipid metabolism so you get increased heart attacks and strokes. Eventually the pancreas burns out and you get less insulin. The weight loss is due to all the calories being peed away as sugar. You can be can be overweight initially or underweight later on depending on whether you are chucking out sugar in the urine. That also depends on your renal threshold for sugar. Diabetes is diagnosed by the rate at which you remove a measured swallowed sugar load from your bloodstream over a two hour period. This is called an oral GTT glucose tolerance test. The result can tell if you are: diabetic i.e your sugar doesn't return to less than 11.1mm/l after 2 hours, IGT impaired glucose tolerant the sugar doesn't return to less than 7.8mm/l or IFG impaired fasting glucose, fasting level the level is 6.1 to 7.0 fasting but returns to less than 7.8 after 2 hours. The fasting level is impaired to 7.0 in Diabetes and IGT. Which prompts the doctor to do the GTT. Above 7.0 fasting your diabetic anyway. Many people do not know they are well on their way to becoming diabetic and already have impaired lipid metabolism causing arterial damage. I found it really scary when people were getting heart attacks before they got the diabetes diagnosed. It makes me want to take really good care of myself(and horses, husband too). The fasting level for diagnosing diabetes has lowered over the years. We are talking really heavy burden on the health care system here. Let's not diagnose it too early we might have to spend money treating it! The rate of increase in type 2 diabetes is huge, even children are getting it now. So far drugs can hold it off for a good while. People who make lifestyle changes early do well. I've seen GTT test normalise on a few determined individuals but it's tough going. This is one disease we can and must do something about. 120million people worldwide are affected by type 2 diabetes, this is predicted to almost double to 215 million by 2010. Quote from the British Nutrition Foundation. My question is; 'And then what?' and 'How will we pay for it?' Eat healthy, exercise and hope for the best. Sorry to go on. It was a really scary moment when I realised what was happenning. What you click is what you get. You don't want to be clicking your horse all the way to insulin resistance. Be really careful with those treats. Sue Lincs. UK
[IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I can totally see why that cross is nicefor some they just can not > make the leap to a short fuzzy little thingbut with that cross, and > arabs are very popular, that cross worked very well. > > > I am a purest when it come to the Icelandic horse, in my humble but very loud opinion; it is a shame to cross this wonderful horse. They have everything a rider/ horse person could want, Strength, agility, intellegence,sturdy, hardy, very willing partners, and if you need to answer Mother natures call- no mounting block needed. Oh and if you like to go fast- I think I've made my point. Sorry, just my 2 cents~ Eve
[IceHorses] Thanks, Judy
Stephanie asked me last night where she should go for research if she wanted to write a school report about Icelandics. She already had Icelandic Horse Connection bookmarked so I happily pointed her in that direction knowing she would get the true facts and not a lot of skewed stories about 600 lb ponies carrying 300 lb men for hours at a time over a frozen wasteland. Thanks, Judy. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What bit
Judy, When I ride my horses on my property, they know where the paddock is. And there are a couple of them that will make a sudden "try" to see if I will let them go back. They never do this off on a trail ride we have hauled to. One of them does it in the same exact spot every time, like clockwork. I always just get ready cause I know its coming, as soon as we go around a certain tree, wh he zings around in a marmaduke move to head back and since I am ready for it he always has to go on. One thing that helped was I decided if it took all day I would get him around that tree without him doing it. It took about ten times and he finally went on, but as soon as I relaxed the next time he would give it a try. mark rashid says "if you want calm and soft, don't give up til you have calm and soft". That being said, there is always the dreaded power struggle too, and sometimes it just turns into a game with them, and I agree with Renee that with some horses a total different approach such as clicker training is good. You dont even have to buy the book and a clicker, really. With my Fox I just started giving him a treat when he would be good a half second and he started focusing on me instead of how to escape me. Every horse is so different, some things work on some but not on others. But I feel like your horse is trying to see if he can get out of the ride by acting up, in the same spot every time. Is there any way to avoid this spot? reason I say, I have two horses that still act up a little at a certain spot even if a year goes by and they havent been there. There is in fact a trail in the wilderness area here that has a spot my friend calls "stonewalls spook spot" because it goes down to a little creek and a dense musky smelly bog and every time he used to whirl, but now just scoots forward. I think critters may nest in there, but things become habit with him. My horse fox is ok in the saddle but on the ground if I try to lead him outside our front gate he wants to whirl and drag me like a water skier. but clicker training stopped it. but at the gate he still starts blowing and making the marble in the nose sound and getting scared so I stop and pet him til he calms, give him a click and a treat and you can just see the tension drain out of him. Once outside the gate he is fine. ?? oh well, go figure :) Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
[IceHorses] Totally OT- Please Vote For Love Bandit
Hi...can you please vote for my friend Howard's little beagle? Her name is Love Bandit. Love Bandit is an adorable dark little beagle girl. Howard is a senior citizen (in his 70's), retired university professor and in wheelchair. He has two sweet little beagles. Molly is also a senior beagle. Howard was not going to get another dog, as he felt with his age, it would be unfair to the new dog. Howard has owned beagles his entire life and he loves the breed. Then Howard heard that Love Bandit was in need a loving forever home and Howard adopted the young beagle girl. Bless his heart! Howard has given Love Bandit a wonderful loving home!! And Love Bandit has given Howard days of love and giggles. I have a favor to ask...can you please take the time to vote for Love Bandit? http://www.thepet-boutique.com/contest/index.php THANKS!! Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
[IceHorses] What bit
Wow, I typed a reply and it went to never, never land. So if you see two posts, one is incomplete. Sorry I really appreciate all the feedback. I don't think Dakota is barn sour because it is only at that one place he likes to turn and go. He is fine at all the locations we have come and gone from. We go a different way every time so I don't know why he would associate just this particular place with home. The saddle I use right now was used on a Halflinger (spelling). I finally was able to ride Dakota enough to get him sweaty. There was a dry spot under the saddle which is one dry spot too many. As you know, I have ordered a trial Bob Marshall. The reason I believe the Bob Marshall will be the right saddle is that it is treeless and is supposed to conform to his body and make him feel like he is being ridden bareback. Whatever I can do to make him and I both as comfortable as possible is my goal. You would think he would be sore, but there seems to be no pain on his back or sides. The farrier and vet have both checked him out so there is no health issues thank God. I have done some clicker training but the people at the barn laugh until they see some of the tricks he can do. I have gotten him to stand at the mounting block and come when I call. I am going back to clicker training though. I have all the books. Again, if anyone has any other suggestions, I am taking them all. I have read everything available on the Icelandic Horse Connection website. Judy Ryder is awesome and so are all of you. Again, Thanks. Judy Fiedler.
Re: [IceHorses] An Outing for Charm Today
On 2/11/08, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We went on an outing today. Charm went into this culvert-type area that is > overgrown and has a seasonal pond. > > Here's some pictures: > > http://iceryder.blogspot.com > at the mailbox she is saying "oohhh please let there be a valentine for me!" Janice-- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Insulin Resistance
You should join the equine cushings group and ask someone there. They have a lot of experience with insulin resistance. I believe that a vet is the moderator of the group! I joined that group for a while, just to learn more, but I'll warn you, it's a very busy group, strictly held on-topic, and it can be pretty overwhelming. There are some good documents on file there, but, I thought they were a little abrupt to people asking basic questions. (The answer was often effectively "look it up in the files." Oh well, at least they have good files.) I think there's a lot of good information there, but unless you have a horse with seriously acute symptoms, it's pretty time-consuming to try to wade through everything. Sundance died four years ago, and my other horses are all pretty stable now and have been for years - if that changes, I'll rejoin that list. If you'd like to do some less time-consuming but still very credible research, you can go to www.thehorse.com and search for topics on laminitis, Cushing's, insulin resistance, etc. They report on new findings regularly, and follow the research of the Bluegrass Laminitis forum - I think that's the name of the group. Anyway, whatever the name, there's a consortium of vets and farriers who have been researching this topic for many years, and they knowledge gained has been phenomenal. I've learned tons from following these articles. I think this is a good place to start for people whose horses have basically shown no serious signs, just to learn what symptoms to watch for, and how you might change your feeding and management practices to prolong the good health of healthy horses. With so many "easy keepers" in this breed, I I think we all should learn something about what to watch for. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Canter
Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti: I do find that in general > horses which have pace (won't call them 5gaited horses Karen! ; )) > usually have softer canters than those that don't. The canter is often > 4-beat and lacking in suspension, but very nice to sit on - same as > their trot, a lot of the time. > > Mic Fjóla is just like that. Her canter sure looks ugly but it's very comfortable. Can't say much about her trot because it's very difficult to get her to trot under saddle. Krisse
